IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:58:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:58:04 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-irc
14:58:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:58:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
14:58:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:09 [trackbot]
Date: 22 April 2010
14:58:49 [kford]
zakim, code?
14:58:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kford
14:58:57 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
14:59:04 [Zakim]
+Gregory_Rosmaita
14:59:10 [janina]
janina has joined #html-a11y
14:59:20 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.307.aaaa
14:59:24 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0184.html
14:59:32 [janina]
zakim, call janina
14:59:32 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
14:59:34 [Zakim]
+Janina
14:59:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.206.aabb
15:00:01 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:00:04 [Zakim]
+ +1.514.312.aacc
15:00:06 [janina]
zakim, drop janina
15:00:06 [Zakim]
Janina is being disconnected
15:00:07 [Zakim]
-Janina
15:00:11 [oedipus]
zakim, aaaa is Eric
15:00:11 [Zakim]
+Eric; got it
15:00:12 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
15:00:12 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
15:00:12 [Marco_Ranon_]
Marco_Ranon_ has joined #html-a11y
15:00:14 [janina]
zakim, call janina
15:00:14 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
15:00:15 [Zakim]
+Janina
15:00:32 [AllanJ]
zakim, aabb is reall allanj
15:00:32 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aabb is reall allanj', AllanJ
15:00:37 [wendy]
wendy has joined #html-a11y
15:00:40 [janina]
zakim, drop janina
15:00:40 [Zakim]
Janina is being disconnected
15:00:41 [Zakim]
-Janina
15:00:45 [MichaelC]
zakim, aacc is Denis_Boudreau
15:00:45 [Zakim]
+Denis_Boudreau; got it
15:00:48 [janina]
zakim, call janina
15:00:48 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
15:00:49 [Zakim]
+Janina
15:01:00 [Zakim]
+ +0207388aadd
15:01:07 [oedipus]
zakim, aabb is Jim_Allan
15:01:07 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan; got it
15:01:16 [AllanJ]
zakim, +1.512.206.aabb is really allanj
15:01:16 [Zakim]
sorry, AllanJ, I do not recognize a party named '+1.512.206.aabb'
15:01:18 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
15:01:27 [oedipus]
zakim, aadd is Marco
15:01:27 [Zakim]
+Marco; got it
15:01:35 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Eric, Janina, Jim_Allan, kford, Denis_Boudreau, Marco, Michael_Cooper
15:01:37 [Zakim]
+Wendy
15:01:53 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:01:53 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:01:53 [janina]
agenda: this
15:01:53 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review
15:01:53 [janina]
agenda+ Media Subteam Update; Requirements; Telecon Scheduling
15:01:53 [janina]
agenda+ Table Summary Restart http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table_Summary
15:01:53 [AllanJ]
zakim, aabb is really allanj
15:01:55 [janina]
agenda+ Various New Elements Change Proposal (Redux)
15:01:56 [Zakim]
sorry, AllanJ, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:01:57 [janina]
agenda+ Missing Alt--Current Call for Consensus http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/
15:01:59 [janina]
agenda+ Setting Deadlines for Open Issues
15:02:01 [janina]
agenda+ Resolved & Rejected Bugs Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0171.html
15:02:02 [Zakim]
+Dick_Bulterman
15:02:04 [janina]
agenda+ New Business
15:02:05 [kliehm]
kliehm has joined #html-a11y
15:02:06 [janina]
agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
15:02:08 [janina]
agenda+ be done
15:02:11 [MichaelC]
chair: Janina_Sajka
15:02:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.862.aaee
15:02:47 [Ben]
Ben has joined #html-a11y
15:02:55 [dboudreau]
hardly... englisj is second language ans i have a hard time following most of the time (accents and stuff)
15:03:01 [dboudreau]
and*
15:03:22 [Zakim]
+ +49.179.103.aaff
15:03:46 [Marco_Ranon]
i can try but my irc seems a bit unstable
15:03:50 [dboudreau]
i wouldn't dare ask ;p
15:04:37 [Zakim]
+Ben
15:05:52 [jongunderson]
jongunderson has joined #html-a11y
15:05:55 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaee is John_Foliot
15:05:58 [Zakim]
+John_Foliot; got it
15:06:07 [oedipus]
there is still time to fill out http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/ if you haven't; want to know what others thought? http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/results
15:06:46 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:07:26 [cyns]
cyns has joined #html-a11y
15:07:42 [MichaelC]
zakim, IPcaller is Cynthia_Shelly
15:07:42 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
15:07:46 [Zakim]
+??P11
15:08:42 [MichaelC]
action-2 due 6 May
15:08:42 [trackbot]
ACTION-2 Deliver draft of change proposal for ARIA additions to HTML 5 by 2009-12-24 due date now 6 May
15:08:51 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P11 is Jon_Gunderson
15:08:51 [Zakim]
+Jon_Gunderson; got it
15:09:21 [Stevef]
Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:09:26 [MichaelC]
action-22 due 30 June
15:09:26 [trackbot]
ACTION-22 Organize joint discussion of testing task force and html a11y task force due date now 30 June
15:10:15 [MichaelC]
close action-25
15:10:15 [trackbot]
ACTION-25 Post notice to a11y TF about http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ and how to make comments closed
15:10:19 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:10:31 [MichaelC]
action-25: OBE or done
15:10:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-25 Post notice to a11y TF about http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ and how to make comments notes added
15:10:55 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P13 is Steve_Faulkner
15:10:55 [Zakim]
+Steve_Faulkner; got it
15:11:34 [Marco_Ranon]
JS is action 25 still relevant?
15:11:48 [Marco_Ranon]
SF: yes
15:11:54 [MichaelC]
action-25: This is about techniques for text alternatives
15:11:54 [trackbot]
ACTION-25 Post notice to a11y TF about http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ and how to make comments notes added
15:11:55 [Stevef]
zakim, Steve_Faulkner is me
15:11:55 [Zakim]
+Stevef; got it
15:11:59 [MichaelC]
open action-25
15:12:14 [John]
John has joined #html-a11y
15:12:59 [paulc]
paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:13:57 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: media sub-team: trying to organise conf calls
15:15:39 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:15:58 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:15:58 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
15:16:47 [Marco_Ranon]
JF: trying to find the right time, possibly by today. discussion in progress.
15:16:51 [frankolivier]
frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
15:17:20 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
15:17:43 [Marco_Ranon]
[discussion over the right time]
15:18:33 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: probably Wednesday 22:00 UTC
15:18:40 [oedipus]
JFoliot's email on timing of Media call: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0191.html
15:20:07 [oedipus]
Media call planning thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/thread.html#msg186
15:24:18 [wendy]
1. Look into previous HTML specifications (where table was first
15:24:20 [wendy]
introduced) to see if there is any clue why column methods were never
15:24:21 [wendy]
included (or perhaps they were included then scrapped for some
15:24:23 [wendy]
reason).
15:24:25 [wendy]
2. Talk with Philippe le Hegaret about DOM work wrt tables and find
15:24:26 [wendy]
out more about history of table methods from him. Ask him about
15:24:28 [wendy]
feasibility of column methods and row/span calculations.
15:24:29 [wendy]
3. Create some test files and figure out exactly how the col elements
15:24:31 [wendy]
is used. Learn more about it.
15:24:32 [wendy]
4. Dig into the existing table algorithms (in the HTML5 spec) and put
15:24:34 [wendy]
a few test cases through to determine if the new algorithm clears up
15:24:35 [wendy]
ambiguities with row and columns spans.
15:24:37 [wendy]
5. Spell out column apis and pass them past NVDA (Mick), Opera
15:24:38 [wendy]
(Charles), IE (Cynthia?), Webkit (?? James Craig), Mozilla (??) to
15:24:40 [wendy]
check for implementation feedback and feasibility.
15:24:42 [wendy]
6. If all this looks good, write a change proposal for the affected
15:24:43 [wendy]
parts of the HTML5 spec and send past the task force.
15:24:57 [Marco_Ranon]
thanks Wendy :)
15:25:12 [oedipus]
i/1. Look into/TOPIC: Table Issues/Proposals Update
15:25:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:25:57 [oedipus]
scribenick+ Marco_Ranon
15:26:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:26:05 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: how long will this take? We need deadlines
15:27:05 [Marco_Ranon]
Gregory: will help Wendy
15:27:38 [gfreed]
gfreed has joined #html-a11y
15:27:43 [oedipus]
i/i can try but my irc seems a bit unstable/Scribe: Marco_Ranon
15:27:56 [oedipus]
i/i can try but my irc seems a bit unstable/scribenick: Marco_Ranon
15:27:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:28:06 [Ben]
Ben has joined #html-a11y
15:28:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.300.aagg - is perhaps WGBH?
15:28:52 [oedipus]
i/action-2 due 6 May/TOPIC: Action Item Review
15:28:55 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: hopefully we'll be able to protect the @summary and get rid of many change proposals
15:29:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:29:15 [gfreed]
617.300 is gfreed at wgbh.
15:29:24 [MichaelC]
zakim, WGBH is Geoff_Freed
15:29:24 [Zakim]
+Geoff_Freed; got it
15:29:54 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table
15:30:11 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table_Summary
15:30:24 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
15:30:39 [Marco_Ranon]
CS: will need to discuss wendy's proposal in conjunction to summary
15:30:42 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Table_Headers
15:31:16 [Marco_Ranon]
CS: would be July OK? When is the cut off?
15:33:12 [Marco_Ranon]
PC: difficult to predict. That's the WG wants hard dates
15:35:00 [Marco_Ranon]
Wendy: need help but it could be done by July 9?
15:35:20 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: we need to commit to realistic deadlines
15:36:02 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: we shouldn't decide now. We'll discuss it by emails
15:36:36 [Zakim]
-Wendy
15:37:24 [cyns]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/KeepNewElements
15:38:30 [Marco_Ranon]
TOPIC: Recommendation on ISSUES-90, 91, 93, 95, 96, & 97
15:39:57 [Zakim]
-Ben
15:39:58 [oedipus]
shelley should be referred to F2F minutes
15:40:08 [Zakim]
+Ben
15:40:36 [Marco_Ranon]
MC: we didn't submitted change proposals because we didn't support the issues
15:40:54 [dboudreau]
all good
15:40:55 [Marco_Ranon]
SC: we need to officially support a zero change proposal
15:41:08 [Marco_Ranon]
TOPIC: text alternatives
15:41:11 [janina]
agenda+ be donehttp://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/results
15:41:19 [oedipus]
there is still time to fill out http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/ if you haven't; want to know what others thought? http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/results
15:41:46 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: survey still openuntil tonight
15:42:34 [oedipus]
vote so far: 21 yes, 1 abstain, 0 no
15:42:47 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: if there are no oppositions, we'll endorse this results
15:42:53 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: but we need a formal vote
15:43:13 [dboudreau]
formal vote would happen here or email?
15:43:20 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
15:44:03 [oedipus]
aria-labelledby implicitly bound to aria-label
15:44:04 [Marco_Ranon]
sorry - who asked?
15:44:17 [Marco_Ranon]
thanks
15:44:34 [Marco_Ranon]
JRG: has been @aria-label omitted by design?
15:44:47 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: no
15:45:01 [Marco_Ranon]
CS: probably @aria-label needs to be made explicit
15:45:01 [oedipus]
aria-labelledby associated with an appropriate aria-label
15:45:25 [janina]
Further to discussion since the face-to-face meeting in the past couple weeks, this change proposal does include that a
15:45:25 [janina]
missing text alternative should be an error in conformance checkers. We expect the error text would reference
15:45:25 [janina]
additional guidance on text alternatives in WCAG support materials.
15:45:43 [oedipus]
plus 1
15:45:54 [Marco_Ranon]
+1
15:45:59 [dboudreau]
+1
15:46:01 [cyns]
+1
15:46:34 [John]
+1
15:46:52 [janina]
HTML5 Change Proposal: Replace img Guidance for Conformance Checkers
15:47:02 [eric_carlson]
+1
15:47:03 [jongunderson]
+1
15:47:03 [kliehm]
+1
15:47:03 [Stevef]
+1
15:47:06 [AllanJ]
+1
15:47:13 [kford]
+1
15:47:18 [frankolivier]
+1
15:47:18 [gfreed]
+1
15:47:54 [oedipus]
would it be better to propose final text in a CfC (call for consensus)
15:48:05 [paulc]
No vote.
15:48:44 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: it might be necessary. can we set it up today?
15:48:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:49:49 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/
15:49:50 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: still vote on the survey
15:50:38 [Marco_Ranon]
TOPIC: deadlines
15:51:01 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: Media: still to be agreed
15:51:03 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas
15:51:28 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: canvas: 12th May
15:51:37 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Proposals
15:51:49 [oedipus]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings
15:52:04 [Marco_Ranon]
JS: ARIA mapping?
15:52:26 [Marco_Ranon]
SC: JUly probably, no precise date yet
15:52:27 [oedipus]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/att-0003/2dcontext10-Apr-11.html
15:53:00 [oedipus]
specific questions for Canvas Sub-Group members from RichS: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010AprJun/0003.html
15:53:18 [Marco_Ranon]
SF: agreed, not sure yet where we stand
15:53:26 [oedipus]
s/SC:/CS:/
15:54:21 [Marco_Ranon]
CS: early July deadline, but I'm also working on other early July deadlines.
15:55:14 [Marco_Ranon]
SF: CS, can you go through items you agree with, so we can show some progress?
15:55:44 [Marco_Ranon]
CS: yes
15:56:37 [oedipus]
TWO MINUTE WARNING
15:56:39 [Marco_Ranon]
PC: the WG chairs want to see bugs before going to last call
15:58:03 [oedipus]
plus 1 to a dedicated bug processing meeting (for at least an hour and a half)
15:58:04 [Marco_Ranon]
JC: no time for open bugs. we need a specific meeting for this, in a week or two
15:58:22 [oedipus]
s/JC: no time/JS: no time/
15:58:34 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
15:58:43 [Zakim]
-Jon_Gunderson
15:58:44 [Zakim]
-Dick_Bulterman
15:58:44 [Zakim]
-Stevef
15:58:45 [Zakim]
-Geoff_Freed
15:58:45 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
15:58:46 [Marco_Ranon]
yes pleas
15:58:48 [Zakim]
-Ben
15:58:50 [Zakim]
-kford
15:58:51 [dboudreau]
take care all
15:58:56 [Zakim]
-John_Foliot
15:58:57 [AllanJ]
AllanJ has left #html-a11y
15:58:58 [Zakim]
-kliehm
15:59:00 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
15:59:02 [Zakim]
-Eric
15:59:03 [janina]
janina has left #html-a11y
15:59:08 [Zakim]
-Janina
15:59:09 [MichaelC]
zakim, bye
15:59:14 [Zakim]
-Denis_Boudreau
15:59:16 [Zakim]
-Gregory_Rosmaita
15:59:18 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +1.408.307.aaaa, Janina, +1.512.206.aabb, +1.514.312.aacc, Eric, kford, Denis_Boudreau, +0207388aadd, Jim_Allan,
15:59:21 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-a11y
15:59:25 [Zakim]
... Michael_Cooper, Marco, Wendy, Dick_Bulterman, +1.650.862.aaee, +49.179.103.aaff, kliehm, Ben, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Jon_Gunderson, Stevef, paulc, [Microsoft],
15:59:28 [Zakim]
... +1.617.300.aagg, Geoff_Freed
15:59:29 [Ben]
Ben has left #html-a11y
15:59:49 [oedipus]
present- +0207388aadd
16:00:05 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
16:02:15 [MichaelC]
present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina_Sajka, Eric_Carlson, Kelly_Ford, Denis_Boudreau, Jim_Allan, Michael_Cooper, Marco_Ranon, Wendy_Chisholm, Dick_Bulterman, Martin_Kliehm, Ben_Caldwell, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Jon_Gunderson, Steve_Faulkner, Paul_Cotton, Geoff_Freed
16:02:26 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
16:03:04 [MichaelC]
regrets+ Laura_Carlson
16:03:13 [MichaelC]
scribeOptions: -final
16:03:39 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
16:03:54 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
16:03:54 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items