13:30:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:30:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-dap-irc
13:30:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:30:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:30:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:30:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 30 minutes
13:30:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:30:52 <trackbot> Date: 21 April 2010
13:31:02 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:31:10 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:31:41 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0072.html
13:34:18 <fjh> Regrets: John_Morris, Marco_Marengo, Laura_ Arribas, David_Rogers
13:35:13 <fjh> Regrets+ Marcin_Hanclik
13:57:13 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:57:17 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:57:48 <darobin> darobin has joined #dap
13:58:21 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:29 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aaaa
13:59:18 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
13:59:29 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #dap
13:59:29 <alissa> alissa has joined #dap
13:59:34 <Zakim> +??P10
13:59:36 <arve> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:59:36 <Zakim> +arve; got it
13:59:46 <fjh> zakim, ??P10 is me
13:59:46 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:59:48 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
13:59:59 <danielcoloma> danielcoloma has joined #dap
14:00:11 <Zakim> + +358.504.86aabb
14:00:15 <Zakim> + +0472369aacc
14:00:20 <maxf> zakim, aacc is me
14:00:20 <Zakim> +maxf; got it
14:00:24 <ilkka> zakim, aabb is ilkka
14:00:24 <Zakim> +ilkka; got it
14:00:24 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
14:00:25 <Zakim> + +1.202.637.aadd
14:00:32 <maxf> Present+ Max_Froumentin
14:00:38 <alissa> Present+ Alissa_Cooper
14:00:42 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:00:57 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:00:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see arve, fjh, ilkka, maxf, +1.202.637.aadd
14:00:58 <ilkka> Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:00:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see Suresh, danielcoloma, alissa, wonsuk, Claes, darobin, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, maxf, lgombos, arve, shepazu, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:01:00 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:01:01 <darobin> Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:01:08 <Zakim> + +82.10.58.00.aaee
14:01:14 <Zakim> + +1.972.373.aaff
14:01:22 <wonsuk> zakim, +82.10.58.00.aaee is me
14:01:22 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
14:02:02 <Zakim> +Dom
14:02:11 <Zakim> + +04610801aagg
14:02:20 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see arve, fjh, ilkka, maxf, +1.202.637.aadd, wonsuk, +1.972.373.aaff, Dom, +04610801aagg
14:02:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see Suresh, danielcoloma, alissa, wonsuk, Claes, darobin, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, maxf, lgombos, arve, shepazu, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:02:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:02:34 <darobin> Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:02:34 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:02:35 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:02:38 <fjh> zakim, aadd is alissa
14:02:38 <Zakim> +alissa; got it
14:02:38 <dom> zakim, mute me
14:02:39 <Zakim> Dom should now be muted
14:02:43 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:02:49 <maxf> zakim, mute me
14:02:49 <Zakim> maxf should now be muted
14:02:56 <fjh> zakim, aaff is suresh
14:02:56 <Zakim> +suresh; got it
14:02:59 <Zakim> + +03491337aahh
14:03:06 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:03:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see arve, fjh, ilkka, maxf (muted), alissa, wonsuk, suresh, Dom (muted), +04610801aagg, darobin (muted), +03491337aahh
14:03:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see AnssiK, Suresh, danielcoloma, alissa, wonsuk, Claes, darobin, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, maxf, lgombos, arve, shepazu, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:03:15 <danielcoloma> Present+ DanielColoma
14:03:30 <Claes> zakim, +04610801aagg is Claes
14:03:30 <Zakim> +Claes; got it
14:03:32 <Zakim> + +035850486aaii
14:03:33 <danielcoloma> aahh is DanielColoma
14:03:42 <AnssiK> zakim, aaii is me
14:03:42 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
14:03:47 <fjh> zakim, aahh is DanielColoma
14:03:47 <Zakim> +DanielColoma; got it
14:03:51 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:04:30 <Claes> scribenick Claes
14:04:38 <Claes> topic: Adm
14:04:50 <Claes> scribenick: Claes
14:04:52 <fjh> s/Adm/Administrative
14:05:30 <maoteo> maoteo has joined #dap
14:05:37 <Claes> IRC web client updated. New link at DAP page
14:05:39 <fjh> web based IRC client updated http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2010Apr/0007.html 
14:05:55 <Claes> topic: MoM approval
14:05:58 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/att-0049/minutes-2010-04-14.html
14:06:07 <Zakim> + +0797352aajj
14:06:12 <fjh> s/Mom/Minutes/
14:06:15 <maoteo> present+ Maria_Oteo
14:06:16 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:06:25 <Claes> RESOLUTION: MoM April 14 approved
14:06:31 <fjh> s/MoM/Minutes
14:06:47 <Claes> Topic: Policy discussion
14:07:26 <fjh> Privacy  rulesets
14:07:49 <Claes> Alissa: Fine for WD ?
14:08:06 <fjh> Editorial update - ReSpec conversion <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0070.html>
14:08:42 <dom> q+
14:08:54 <Claes> Fjh: Wants policy req and ruleset as WD simultaneously
14:09:27 <Claes> fjh: still some actions on Alissa and John on priv reqs
14:09:37 <dom> zakim, who's noisy?
14:09:47 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Claes (8%)
14:10:05 <dom> zakim, mute claes
14:10:05 <Zakim> Claes should now be muted
14:10:19 <fjh> alissa asks if we need to clarify rulesets before FPWD of policy rulesets
14:10:45 <fjh> I suggest we try to have FPWD of both privacy requirements and policy rulesets at same time, ask  that focus now on actions related to privacy requiremetns
14:11:01 <fjh> action-153?
14:11:01 <trackbot> ACTION-153 -- Alissa Cooper to refine privacy requirements (with John) -- due 2010-04-07 -- OPEN
14:11:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/153
14:11:09 <fjh> action-158?
14:11:09 <trackbot> ACTION-158 -- John Morris to send proposed changes to list re privacy requirements -- due 2010-04-14 -- OPEN
14:11:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/158
14:11:22 <fjh> action-112?
14:11:22 <trackbot> ACTION-112 -- Alissa Cooper to separate privacy requirements on UA from other privacy requirements (on APIs, for user policies, and for best practices for recipients) -- due 2010-03-23 -- OPEN
14:11:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/112
14:11:34 <Zakim> -darobin
14:12:04 <fjh> alissa notes privacy requirements on APIs versus UA requirements
14:12:14 <Zakim> +darobin
14:12:53 <Claes> Need to define how ruleset is used, not API specific req
14:12:58 <fjh> action-112 closed
14:12:58 <trackbot> ACTION-112 Separate privacy requirements on UA from other privacy requirements (on APIs, for user policies, and for best practices for recipients) closed
14:13:09 <fjh> Privacy section for API documents
14:13:18 <fjh> action-116?
14:13:18 <trackbot> ACTION-116 -- Bryan Sullivan to provide input on DCO mapping for SysInfo -- due 2010-03-24 -- OPEN
14:13:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/116
14:13:33 <darobin> [I note that the editors for the privacy requirements document aren't the right ones]
14:13:34 <fjh> Phrase the temporary privacy section
14:13:42 <fjh> action-130?
14:13:42 <trackbot> ACTION-130 -- Richard Tibbett to propose changes to calendar specification to address privacy minimization -- due 2010-03-24 -- OPEN
14:13:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/130
14:13:47 <dom> q-
14:14:29 <Claes> fjh: First WD early next month
14:14:38 <fjh> s/First WD/FPWD/
14:15:12 <fjh> Richard is starting with contacts should be applicable to calendar
14:15:13 <Claes> Rich: Dealing with "Privacy by design section in contacts. Needs to be dealt with also in cal
14:16:01 <Claes> .Topic: APIs
14:16:09 <dom> s/.T/T/
14:16:24 <dom> ack me
14:17:05 <dom> q+
14:17:11 <dom> ack me
14:17:54 <Claes> Dom: Wants not to bundle policy reqs and rule set
14:18:30 <fjh> goal is to let people know of rulesets and approach
14:18:44 <Claes> ...suggests to publich privacy reqs when done 
14:19:24 <Claes> fjh: Wants to get peoples attention and feedback
14:19:49 <darobin> [feedback from the TAG?]
14:20:03 <fjh> dom suggests getting feedback from html cg, webapps and internally in WG first before FPWD
14:21:29 <fjh> dom notes requirements doc  can link to rulesets doc
14:21:38 <Claes> fjh: Have a problem  with publish a req doc with issues and no proposal for a solution.
14:21:53 <alissa> q+
14:22:05 <fjh> ack alissa
14:22:13 <Claes> fjh: Focus more on privacy doc
14:22:38 <fjh> alissa notes need stated requirements on retention, secondary use 
14:23:30 <dom> zakim, mute me
14:23:30 <Zakim> Dom should now be muted
14:23:32 <fjh> Topic: APIs
14:23:34 <Claes> Topic: APIs
14:23:40 <Claes> Messaging 
14:23:50 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0069.html 
14:23:57 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/att-0049/minutes-2010-04-14.html#item07 Last week discussions on messaging
14:24:05 <Claes> Discussion on publishing
14:24:17 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:24:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see arve, fjh, ilkka, maxf (muted), alissa, wonsuk, suresh, Dom (muted), Claes (muted), DanielColoma, AnssiK, +0797352aajj, darobin
14:24:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see richt, maoteo, AnssiK, Suresh, danielcoloma, alissa, wonsuk, Claes, darobin, Dzung_Tran, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, maxf, lgombos, arve, shepazu, ilkka, ingmar, dom,
14:24:22 <Zakim> ... trackbot
14:24:25 <dom> q+ to say he doesn't think we've addressed his concern about scoping
14:24:32 <dom> ack me
14:24:33 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to say he doesn't think we've addressed his concern about scoping
14:24:47 <Claes> Darobin: Suggest moving Messaging to FPWD
14:24:54 <tlr> Regrets+ tlr
14:25:01 <dom> ACTION-161?
14:25:01 <trackbot> ACTION-161 -- Max Froumentin to make a proposal for Message Management, including whether it would be split from the main spec or not -- due 2010-04-21 -- OPEN
14:25:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/161
14:25:34 <maxf> zakim, unmute me
14:25:34 <Zakim> maxf should no longer be muted
14:25:44 <Suresh> q+
14:26:00 <dom> ack suresh
14:26:05 <maxf> zakim, mute me
14:26:05 <Zakim> maxf should now be muted
14:26:36 <fjh> suresh asks about supporting inspection, is it the same as message management
14:26:42 <fjh> robin notes yes
14:27:07 <Claes> Suresh: Message (folder)  managment to be included before FPWD?
14:28:00 <danielcoloma> q+
14:28:56 <Claes> Suresh suggests that we should wait until Max has made a proposal for message management.
14:29:17 <maxf> zakim, unmute me
14:29:17 <Zakim> maxf should no longer be muted
14:29:25 <dom> q?
14:29:26 <fjh> s/fjh: Topic APIs//
14:29:27 <darobin> ack danielcoloma 
14:29:28 <Claes> Max: Ok
14:30:09 <Claes> Daniel: FEedback from Bondi: Decided to merge messaging API and folder management.
14:30:19 <fjh> s/FEedback/Feedback/
14:30:54 <darobin> ACTION daniel to email the list explaining the differences between the successive BONDI approaches to messaging, and why the functionality got merged into a single API
14:30:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-164 - Email the list explaining the differences between the successive BONDI approaches to messaging, and why the functionality got merged into a single API [on Daniel Coloma - due 2010-04-28].
14:31:03 <Suresh> q-
14:31:26 <fjh> Timezoned dates - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0051.html 
14:31:28 <Claes> Calendar Time zones and dates
14:31:57 <dom> (I prefer solution #2 in Richard's summary, but then, that's my proposal :) )
14:32:19 <fjh> didn't we decide earlier that we wanted to be REST compatible in our APIs?
14:32:36 <Claes> Rich: Two proposals. Need decsion. Blocking cal API. 
14:32:38 <Suresh> q+
14:32:55 <Claes> ...Needs feedback on preferred solution.
14:32:58 <dom> q+ to say we should strive to make developers' life easier, rather than implementers or ourselves
14:33:15 <fjh> q+
14:33:18 <dom> [this relates to ISSUE-81]
14:34:05 <dom> (there is more than end and start; recurrence rules, for instance)
14:34:32 <fjh> ack Suresh
14:34:42 <Zakim> -wonsuk
14:34:52 <dom> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Mar/0206.html
14:35:10 <Claes> Rich: 3rd option, Rich can you state this in IRC?
14:35:23 <Zakim> +wonsuk
14:35:43 <darobin> [I agree with Dom's feedback on this one]
14:36:10 <dom> zakim, am I muted?
14:36:10 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dom.
14:36:15 <dom> zakim, who is muted?
14:36:15 <Zakim> I see Claes muted
14:36:38 <darobin> ack dom
14:36:38 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to say we should strive to make developers' life easier, rather than implementers or ourselves
14:36:42 <darobin> q?
14:37:41 <Suresh> Suresh: A 3rd proposal would be to specify a tz attribute in the Event interface
14:37:51 <Claes> Dom: We should make a solution that is easier for developers
14:38:17 <darobin> "In case of conflict, consider users over authors over implementors over specifiers over theoretical purity."
14:38:21 <darobin> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#priority-of-constituencies
14:38:37 <Claes> Rich: Provide feedback on list
14:38:38 <darobin> ack fjh
14:38:56 <Claes> fjh: Implications on a RESTful approach?
14:39:18 <Claes> Darobin: Not a big deal
14:39:54 <dom> (and bring it public-script-coord as well)
14:39:59 <dom> s/it/it to/
14:40:06 <Claes> Darobin: Suggest put a draft up wth option 2 and get feedbac
14:40:21 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/ public-script-coord@w3.org Mail Archives
14:40:34 <dom> zakim, mute me
14:40:34 <Zakim> Dom should now be muted
14:40:38 <darobin> ACTION Robin to take the TZDate discussion to public-script-coord
14:40:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-165 - Take the TZDate discussion to public-script-coord [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-04-28].
14:40:40 <dom> zakim, who's noisy?
14:40:53 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (94%)
14:41:24 <dom> ACTION-163?
14:41:24 <trackbot> ACTION-163 -- Robin Berjon to email i18n about the various options for calendaring -- due 2010-04-21 -- OPEN
14:41:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/163
14:41:43 <Claes> Blocking factors for Cal is timezone issues and internatioization (Gregorian etc) 
14:41:51 <dom> ack me
14:42:23 <Claes> File Writer
14:42:23 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010AprJun/thread.html#msg102 storage for Web APIs
14:43:04 <Claes> Dom: Long disc in Web Apps on storage for web apps. Also aplicable for File Writer.
14:44:08 <richt> [calendar] My understanding is that blocking for calendar API is TimezonedDate object, expressing i18n dates/times and fixing the recurrence model
14:44:08 <Claes> Darobin 
14:44:30 <richt> [calendar] non-blocking issue is to address minimization in the draft
14:45:28 <Zakim> -darobin
14:45:30 <Zakim> -arve
14:45:30 <Zakim> -alissa
14:45:31 <Zakim> - +0797352aajj
14:45:33 <Zakim> -Dom
14:45:33 <AnssiK> AnssiK has left #dap
14:45:34 <Zakim> -fjh
14:45:39 <Zakim> -Claes
14:45:40 <Zakim> -DanielColoma
14:45:41 <Zakim> -AnssiK
14:45:42 <Zakim> -suresh
14:45:50 <Zakim> -wonsuk
14:45:51 <fjh> Thanks for scribing Claes. 
14:45:56 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:45:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:45:56 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #dap
14:50:13 <fjh> s/aahh is DanielColoma//
14:53:00 <richt> richt has left #dap
15:02:02 <Zakim> -maxf
15:02:35 <maxf> zakim, who's here?
15:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see ilkka
15:02:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see maoteo, Suresh, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, maxf, lgombos, arve, shepazu, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
15:02:49 <dom> Zakim, drop illka
15:02:50 <Zakim> sorry, dom, I do not see a party named 'illka'
15:02:56 <dom> Zakim, drop ilkka
15:02:58 <Zakim> ilkka is being disconnected
15:03:00 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:03:06 <Zakim> Attendees were +47.23.69.aaaa, arve, fjh, +358.504.86aabb, +0472369aacc, maxf, ilkka, +1.202.637.aadd, +1.972.373.aaff, wonsuk, Dom, darobin, alissa, suresh, +03491337aahh, Claes,
15:03:11 <Zakim> ... +035850486aaii, AnssiK, DanielColoma, +0797352aajj
15:03:20 <dom> trackbot, stop meeting
15:03:20 <trackbot> Sorry, dom, I don't understand 'trackbot, stop meeting'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
15:03:28 <dom> trackbot, end teleconf
15:03:28 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:03:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:03:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/21-dap-minutes.html trackbot
15:03:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:03:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items