IRC log of rif on 2010-04-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:19:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:19:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/20-rif-irc
14:19:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rif
14:32:07 [ChrisW]
action: sandro to add RIFTr to implementations
14:32:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-999 - Add RIFTr to implementations [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-04-27].
14:49:58 [ChrisW]
action: sandro to update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Nov/att-0015/RIF-CASPD.html remove "W3C Note"
14:49:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1000 - Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2009Nov/att-0015/RIF-CASPD.html remove "W3C Note" [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-04-27].
14:50:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:50:33 [Zakim]
ChrisW, Team_(rifc)13:27Z is already associated with an irc channel; use 'move rif to here' if you mean to reassociate the channel
14:50:40 [ChrisW]
Chair: Christian de Sainte-Marie
14:50:54 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 20-Apr-2010
14:51:15 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/20-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:51:35 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:53:30 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Apr/0016.html
14:54:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:54:06 [Zakim]
sorry, ChrisW, I don't know what conference this is
14:54:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, ChrisW, csma, AxelPolleres, sandro, trackbot
14:54:10 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:54:10 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW, I see SW_RIF()11:00AM already started
14:54:16 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:54:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IBM]
14:54:26 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
14:54:26 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
14:54:49 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:55:02 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:55:08 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Actions
14:55:16 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Public Comments
14:55:22 [ChrisW]
agenda+ PR Update
14:55:27 [ChrisW]
agenda+ RDF Imports
14:55:34 [ChrisW]
agenda+ RIF Primer
14:55:40 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Test Cases
14:55:47 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:55:53 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
14:55:53 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
14:58:43 [Zakim]
+Sandro
14:59:06 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:59:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro
15:00:05 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:01:14 [leoramorgenstern]
leoramorgenstern has joined #rif
15:01:37 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: axel to fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html
15:01:45 [AxelPolleres]
adjourned
15:01:47 [Zakim]
+csma
15:01:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1001 - Fix the example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/README.html [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].
15:01:54 [apaschke]
apaschke has joined #RIF
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+LeoraMorgenstern
15:02:03 [AxelPolleres]
damn... wrong chat ;-)
15:02:41 [Zakim]
+??P21
15:02:49 [csma]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, ??P21
15:04:01 [Zakim]
+AxelPolleres
15:04:04 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:05:19 [Zakim]
+??P33
15:05:25 [apaschke]
Zakim, ??P33 is me
15:05:25 [Zakim]
+apaschke; got it
15:05:51 [AxelPolleres]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB works for me
15:06:45 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:06:46 [AxelPolleres]
rdf:PlainLiteral and indexing from zero were at risk
15:06:53 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:08:24 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:08:24 [AxelPolleres]
I should remove the at risk notes, update changelog, tell sandro that its' done... fine? anything else?
15:09:00 [AxelPolleres]
all references to XML schema are to 1.1 in DTB.
15:09:09 [AxelPolleres]
... at the moment.
15:09:11 [ChrisW]
action: axel to update DTB to remove at-risk features and update change log
15:09:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1002 - Update DTB to remove at-risk features and update change log [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].
15:09:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.533.aaaa
15:09:29 [Gary]
zakim, aaaa is me
15:09:29 [Zakim]
+Gary; got it
15:11:31 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-dtb/#ref-xml-schema2
15:12:23 [AxelPolleres]
yup
15:13:21 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:13:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, DaveReynolds, AxelPolleres, apaschke, josb, Gary
15:13:37 [josb]
http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-syntax/
15:13:45 [josb]
check "status of the document"
15:13:57 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-overview/#sotd-xml-dep is the SOTD part, but I'm looking for the non-SOTD part.
15:14:03 [josb]
"XML Schema Datatypes Dependency
15:14:05 [josb]
OWL 2 is defined to use datatypes defined in the XML Schema Definition Language (XSD). As of this writing, the latest W3C Recommendation for XSD is version 1.0, with version 1.1 progressing toward Recommendation. OWL 2 has been designed to take advantage of the new datatypes and clearer explanations available in XSD 1.1, but for now those advantages are being partially put on hold. Specifically, u
15:14:06 [josb]
ntil XSD 1.1 becomes a W3C Recommendation, the elements of OWL 2 which are based on it should be considered optional, as detailed in Conformance, section 2.3. Upon the publication of XSD 1.1 as a W3C Recommendation, those elements cease to be optional and are to be considered required as otherwise specified.
15:14:08 [josb]
We suggest that for now developers and users follow the XSD 1.1 Candidate Recommendation. Based on discussions between the Schema and OWL Working Groups, we do not expect any implementation changes will be necessary as XSD 1.1 advances to Recommendation."
15:14:15 [sandro]
Here it is: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes
15:15:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.833.aabb
15:15:55 [AxelPolleres]
so, what more do I need to change?
15:15:56 [josb]
bld has a normative reference to xsd
15:15:59 [josb]
swc does not
15:16:02 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:17:15 [csma]
Axel, there is an Editor's note in 4.10
15:17:54 [AxelPolleres]
[[XML Schema2] --> [XML Schema Datatypes]
15:18:29 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:18:39 [AxelPolleres]
q?
15:18:53 [ChrisW]
ack axel
15:19:32 [sandro]
in BLD it's ref-xml-schema
15:19:46 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes
15:21:06 [MichaelKifer_]
MichaelKifer_ has joined #rif
15:21:23 [ChrisW]
Scribe: MichaelKifer
15:21:30 [ChrisW]
scribenick: MichaelKifer
15:22:40 [sandro]
ACTION: axel copy the OWL text about XSD1.1 to DTB, copying http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes into DTB 2.3, changing OWL to RIF.
15:22:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1003 - Copy the OWL text about XSD1.1 to DTB, copying http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-owl2-conformance-20091027/#XML_Schema_Datatypes into DTB 2.3, changing OWL to RIF. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-04-27].
15:23:02 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Mar/0077.html
15:23:44 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve minutes of March 23
15:24:00 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
15:24:07 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve minutes of March 23
15:24:56 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:24:56 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
15:24:58 [Zakim]
1. Admin [from ChrisW]
15:24:58 [Zakim]
2. Liason [from ChrisW]
15:24:59 [Zakim]
3. Actions [from ChrisW]
15:24:59 [Zakim]
4. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
15:25:01 [Zakim]
5. PR Update [from ChrisW]
15:25:01 [Zakim]
6. RDF Imports [from ChrisW]
15:25:03 [Zakim]
7. RIF Primer [from ChrisW]
15:25:03 [Zakim]
8. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:25:05 [Zakim]
9. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:26:01 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Apr/0015.html
15:26:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:26:33 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:26:35 [sandro]
if problems logging into wiki tomorrow, contact sysreq@w3.org
15:27:09 [josb]
no
15:28:54 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
15:29:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:29:00 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Actions" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:30:28 [ChrisW]
close action 996
15:30:36 [ChrisW]
close action-996
15:30:36 [trackbot]
ACTION-996 Remove at risk feature as per resolution closed
15:31:08 [ChrisW]
close action-997
15:31:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-997 Draft transition request closed
15:31:15 [ChrisW]
close action-995
15:31:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-995 Update public comments list closed
15:31:58 [ChrisW]
close action-994
15:31:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-994 Reply to paul gearon closed
15:32:31 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
15:32:52 [ChrisW]
close action-959
15:32:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-959 Contact jderoo about rdf support in EYE closed
15:33:08 [ChrisW]
close action-952
15:33:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-952 Follow up with chime on fuxi implementation report closed
15:33:17 [Harold]
Done: ACTION-996 - Remove at risk feature as per resolution: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Mar/0080.html
15:33:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:33:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, DaveReynolds, apaschke, josb, Gary, +1.631.833.aabb, [IPcaller]
15:34:09 [ChrisW]
zakim, ipcaller is Harold
15:34:09 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:34:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, aabb is MichaelKifer
15:34:18 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
15:34:22 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:34:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Sandro, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, DaveReynolds, apaschke, josb, Gary, MichaelKifer, Harold
15:36:29 [csma]
action: chris to review the proves in SWC
15:36:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1004 - Review the proves in SWC [on Christopher Welty - due 2010-04-27].
15:36:57 [ChrisW]
close action-831
15:36:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-831 Finish the SWC proofs or remove them closed
15:37:26 [josb]
sorry, conneciton problem
15:37:31 [josb]
I don't think Axel did
15:38:32 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:38:42 [Zakim]
-??P13
15:39:06 [Zakim]
+??P13
15:39:22 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2010Apr/0007.html
15:43:55 [Zakim]
-josb
15:44:04 [ChrisW]
action: csma to draft reply to WL
15:44:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1005 - Draft reply to WL [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-04-27].
15:47:05 [MichaelKifer]
Harold: Core is ready for publication as PR
15:49:09 [ChrisW]
action: csma to update PRD changelog
15:49:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1006 - Update PRD changelog [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-04-27].
15:50:07 [ChrisW]
jos, which proofs are new?
15:50:25 [MichaelKifer]
Michael: FLD is ready for PR
15:51:51 [MichaelKifer]
Sandro: schedule for PR request: need to finish answering questions then can go to PR at the end of the 1st week of May.
15:52:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
15:52:43 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
15:52:45 [Zakim]
3. Actions [from ChrisW]
15:52:45 [Zakim]
4. Public Comments [from ChrisW]
15:52:46 [Zakim]
5. PR Update [from ChrisW]
15:52:46 [Zakim]
6. RDF Imports [from ChrisW]
15:52:48 [Zakim]
7. RIF Primer [from ChrisW]
15:52:48 [Zakim]
8. Test Cases [from ChrisW]
15:52:49 [Zakim]
9. AOB [from ChrisW]
15:52:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 6
15:52:51 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "RDF Imports" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:53:52 [csma]
q?
15:54:16 [ChrisW]
which proofs are new?
15:54:30 [josb]
the ones in section 9.2
15:54:49 [josb]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC#Embedding_RIF-OWL_2_RL_Combinations
15:54:54 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 7
15:54:54 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "RIF Primer" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:55:15 [josb]
the one in section 9.2.2.2 is the most critical: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/SWC#Embedding_Normalized_OWL_2_RL
15:55:35 [MichaelKifer]
Harold: had telecon with Liora. She will update the outline.
15:55:54 [MichaelKifer]
Liora: Chris is supposed to update the outline.
15:56:17 [MichaelKifer]
Chris: need a good semweb example.
15:57:06 [MichaelKifer]
Liora: where should we be looking for such an example?
15:57:55 [Harold]
s/Liora/Leora/
15:58:02 [MichaelKifer]
Chris: need to look at various web site and use geospatial info. Hope to have such an example within the next few days.
15:59:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 8
15:59:05 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Test Cases" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:59:17 [MichaelKifer]
Chris: need to wait for the next outline. Need to publish the URL.
16:00:36 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_Time
16:01:06 [MichaelKifer]
s/Chris/CSMA/
16:01:13 [csma]
PROPOSED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_Time
16:01:48 [ChrisW]
+1
16:01:49 [Gary]
+1
16:01:51 [apaschke]
+1
16:01:52 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:02:02 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:02:02 [csma]
RESOLVED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_Time
16:03:07 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:03:16 [ChrisW]
proposed next test case: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListLiteralEquality
16:03:51 [josb]
q+
16:04:17 [josb]
1-
16:04:19 [josb]
q-
16:05:30 [sandro]
jos: syntax errors in literals are syntax errors in RIF, so this is a Negative Syntax Test.
16:06:20 [MichaelKifer]
Sandro: this testcase has a syntax error in the XML
16:12:10 [MichaelKifer]
Sandro made the fixes in real time
16:13:26 [csma]
PROPOSED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:13:32 [sandro]
new version of test case, with only canonical XML
16:13:40 [csma]
q?
16:13:51 [sandro]
+1
16:13:53 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:13:53 [apaschke]
+1
16:13:54 [ChrisW]
+1
16:13:57 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:14:01 [ChrisW]
proposed next test case: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListLiteralEquality
16:14:04 [josb]
+1
16:14:28 [ChrisW]
leora: +1 (on phone)
16:14:30 [csma]
RESOLVED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:14:55 [ChrisW]
proposed next test case: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListLiteralEquality
16:16:00 [Zakim]
-josb.a
16:16:04 [josb]
don't think so
16:16:46 [Zakim]
+??P13
16:17:17 [csma]
And() :- "a"=List(ex:b)
16:18:34 [sandro]
sandro: maybe there's a NegativeEntailmentTest here that would work in Core?
16:18:40 [sandro]
sandro: but whatever, this is fine.
16:18:52 [csma]
PROPOSED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListLiteralEquality
16:19:00 [sandro]
+1
16:19:02 [Harold]
+1
16:19:02 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:19:04 [ChrisW]
+1
16:19:06 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:19:09 [josb]
I believe that without equality in the language, you cannot duplicate this behavior
16:19:10 [josb]
+1
16:19:16 [ChrisW]
leora: +1 (on phone)
16:19:19 [csma]
RESOLVED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListLiteralEquality
16:19:23 [ChrisW]
close action-850
16:19:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-850 Review Element Equality, and List* test cases closed
16:20:31 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Named_Argument_Uniterms_non-polymorphic
16:20:56 [LeoraM]
LeoraM has joined #rif
16:22:51 [josb]
I actually like the current name
16:22:59 [sandro]
you would. :-)
16:23:32 [josb]
but I don't really mind either way
16:24:55 [csma]
PROPOSED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Named_Argument_Uniterms_non-polymorphic
16:25:04 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:25:08 [ChrisW]
+1
16:25:08 [sandro]
+1
16:25:10 [Gary]
+1
16:25:11 [LeoraM]
+1
16:25:11 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:25:19 [csma]
RESOLVED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Named_Argument_Uniterms_non-polymorphic
16:27:03 [Harold]
+1
16:27:05 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/No_free_variables
16:27:49 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, link
16:27:49 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'link', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:27:58 [ChrisW]
zakim, link?
16:27:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
16:28:02 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, link?
16:28:02 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'link'
16:28:25 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, pointer?
16:28:25 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/04/20-rif-irc#T16-28-25
16:29:36 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:29:39 [Harold]
+1
16:29:46 [josb]
+1
16:29:47 [csma]
PROPOSED: Appove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/No_free_variables
16:29:48 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:29:49 [Gary]
+1
16:29:52 [LeoraM]
+1
16:29:59 [csma]
RESOLVED: Approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/No_free_variables
16:30:16 [Zakim]
-josb
16:30:28 [csma]
zakim, attendees
16:30:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'attendees', csma
16:30:37 [csma]
zakim, attendees?
16:30:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, csma.
16:30:46 [Zakim]
-LeoraMorgenstern
16:30:50 [csma]
zakim list attendees
16:30:57 [Zakim]
-apaschke
16:30:58 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
16:30:59 [csma]
zakim, list attendees
16:31:00 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ChrisW, Sandro, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, DaveReynolds, AxelPolleres, apaschke, josb, +1.503.533.aaaa, Gary, +1.631.833.aabb, Harold,
16:31:03 [Zakim]
... MichaelKifer
16:31:16 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:31:28 [Zakim]
-Gary
16:31:31 [csma]
Regrets:
16:31:38 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, aabb is me
16:31:38 [Zakim]
sorry, MichaelKifer, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:31:40 [csma]
RRsagent, make minutes
16:31:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/20-rif-minutes.html csma
16:32:01 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:32:32 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:32:38 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, MichaelKifer
16:32:47 [Zakim]
-csma
16:33:11 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
16:33:12 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:33:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were ChrisW, Sandro, csma, LeoraMorgenstern, DaveReynolds, AxelPolleres, apaschke, josb, +1.503.533.aaaa, Gary, +1.631.833.aabb, Harold, MichaelKifer
16:33:17 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has left #rif
16:34:12 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif