12:55:51 RRSAgent has joined #egov 12:55:51 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-egov-irc 12:55:59 zakim, this will be egov 12:55:59 ok, sandro, I see T&S_EGOV(DMngmnt)8:00AM already started 12:56:10 zakim, who is on the call? 12:56:10 On the phone I see ??P8 12:56:27 +Sandro 12:56:38 zakim, dial ivan-voip 12:56:38 ok, ivan; the call is being made 12:56:40 +Ivan 12:56:48 JeniT has joined #egov 12:57:56 fadi has joined #egov 12:58:00 +mhausenblas 12:58:23 +??P11 12:58:30 + +0203334aaaa - is perhaps John 12:58:43 + +1.865.576.aabb 12:58:45 zakim, ??P11 is me 12:58:45 +juansequeda; got it 12:59:15 + +1.617.752.aacc 12:59:20 http://www.epimorphics.com/public/presentations/ldapi/egov-presentation.html#(1) 12:59:20 + +1.614.692.aadd 12:59:26 + +1.404.314.aaee 12:59:36 zakim, who is on the call? 12:59:36 On the phone I see DaveReynolds, Sandro, Ivan, mhausenblas, juansequeda, John, +1.865.576.aabb, +1.617.752.aacc, +1.614.692.aadd, +1.404.314.aaee 12:59:39 laurent_lefort_cs has joined #egov 12:59:48 martinSpain has joined #egov 12:59:50 I'm on the same line as John 13:00:07 TomM has joined #egov 13:00:28 Conference call is full 13:00:54 checkiing on it TomM 13:01:05 zakim, who is on the call? 13:01:05 On the phone I see DaveReynolds, Sandro, Ivan, mhausenblas, juansequeda, John, +1.865.576.aabb, +1.617.752.aacc, +1.614.692.aadd, +1.404.314.aaee 13:01:40 thx 13:02:09 roger has joined #egov 13:02:52 cgi-irc has joined #egov 13:03:04 @olyerickson asked about streaming audio ... maybe another time :) 13:03:11 filiope has joined #egov 13:03:40 colin has joined #egov 13:03:40 olyerickson1 has joined #egov 13:04:02 now conference is restricted... 13:04:11 still working on it! sorry! 13:04:17 thx 13:04:21 kate_geyer has joined #egov 13:04:27 Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov 13:05:47 Cory has joined #egov 13:06:09 yeah. :-( 13:06:25 Cornelia has joined #egov 13:06:29 I'm so sorry everyone. I thought this was set up properly. 13:06:36 Hopefully just another minute or two. 13:06:37 Ok, I get back in the loop andd the loop is closed! 13:06:49 sandro: no worries, it's a good problem to have imho :-) 13:07:11 mhausenblas, really? I was expecting this :) 13:07:28 cygri_ has joined #egov 13:07:30 I can set up a gotowebinar 13:08:46 anyone know how many people are on the call? (that aren't in irc) 13:09:52 danbri has joined #egov 13:09:52 Zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas 13:09:52 +cygri; got it 13:10:05 Yeah, 10. People with w3c member access can see the list of all bridge users here: http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html 13:10:12 how will we know when we can start? 13:10:22 adrian has joined #egov 13:10:33 PaulZH has joined #egov 13:10:34 ok 13:10:49 I think it might suit JeniT 13:10:50 Suits me. I hate talking on the phone at the best of times ;) 13:10:54 Chris has joined #egov 13:10:56 - +1.404.314.aaee 13:11:15 libby has joined #egov 13:11:21 hi libby :) 13:11:28 hey jenit! 13:11:33 and all 13:11:39 Evening all 13:11:41 hey libby! 13:11:50 hey sandro ;-) 13:11:55 waiting, waiting. :-) 13:12:02 s/;-)/:-)/ 13:12:42 Zakim, who's making noise? 13:12:55 mhausenblas, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (31%), +1.614.692.aadd (18%), Ivan (11%) 13:13:07 zakim, mute me 13:13:07 Sandro should now be muted 13:13:11 did that do it? 13:13:14 no 13:13:18 zakim, mute me 13:13:18 Ivan should now be muted 13:13:19 zakim, unmute me 13:13:19 Sandro should no longer be muted 13:13:27 zakim, mute aadd 13:13:27 +1.614.692.aadd should now be muted 13:13:36 aaaahhhh:-) 13:13:52 - +1.614.692.aadd 13:14:38 meh - Probs with conf call sandro? 13:14:48 Yes, Chris :-( :-( 13:14:56 when we start, will people want to introduce themselves on the call, or just skip straight to the presentation? 13:15:22 @sandro no stress - how long till fix? 13:15:24 + +1.573.522.aaff 13:15:36 (and totally my fault, for setting up the teleconference reservation incorrectly.) 13:15:48 + +0782464aagg 13:16:02 normally 10 people is enough for us :) 13:16:31 twitter-effect.... :) 13:16:39 hey dave! 13:16:46 OwenAmbur has joined #egov 13:17:38 I guess so, TomM - re Twitter http://search.twitter.com/search?q=egov+linked+data 13:17:50 Sandro - I have a gotomeeting webinar running, if needed 13:18:33 Thanks, Cory. In 10 years at W3C I've never had a problem, except once when the bridge's second redundant power supply blew out. 13:18:36 - +0782464aagg 13:19:13 Its the every 10 year problems that get you! 13:19:25 mib_lo55ig has joined #egov 13:21:04 [The admin I'm talking to now isn't answering me.... hopefully that means she's getting up, or something. But the real expert on the system is away helping with local flood relief operations.] 13:21:18 er, getting *help* I mean 13:22:11 Rachel has joined #egov 13:22:32 sandro: so would that be ralph who is helping out w/ the flood relief 13:22:36 ruben has joined #egov 13:23:40 Zakim, John is johnlsheridan 13:23:40 +johnlsheridan; got it 13:23:42 ephemerian has joined #egov 13:23:53 Zakim, JeniT is with johnlsheridan 13:23:53 +JeniT; got it 13:24:06 I'm being organised by JeniT (again) 13:24:14 lol 13:24:16 ok 13:24:18 -mhausenblas 13:24:20 -juansequeda 13:24:21 - +1.573.522.aaff 13:24:23 - +1.617.752.aacc 13:24:25 zakim, drop me 13:24:25 -johnlsheridan 13:24:25 -DaveReynolds 13:24:25 Ivan is being disconnected 13:24:26 -Ivan 13:24:26 - +1.865.576.aabb 13:24:30 -Sandro 13:24:31 T&S_EGOV(DMngmnt)8:00AM has ended 13:24:32 Attendees were Sandro, Ivan, DaveReynolds, mhausenblas, +0203334aaaa, +1.865.576.aabb, juansequeda, +1.617.752.aacc, +1.614.692.aadd, +1.404.314.aaee, cygri, +1.573.522.aaff, 13:24:35 ... +0782464aagg, johnlsheridan, JeniT 13:24:40 On another note - I would like to try and spool up "outreach" again, looking for ideas and input 13:24:50 zakim, this will be egov 13:24:50 ok, sandro, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started 13:24:50 can we try and dial back now? 13:24:59 Zakim, LC is edsu 13:24:59 +edsu; got it 13:24:59 yes. 13:25:06 Zakim, code? 13:25:06 the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), mhausenblas 13:25:08 + +1.865.576.aaaa 13:25:08 +[IPcaller] 13:25:09 + +1.573.522.aabb 13:25:09 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:25:10 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:25:10 +??P5 13:25:12 +Ivan 13:25:23 +[IPcaller] 13:25:26 dang somebody sounds like they're in a laundromat :-) 13:25:27 +mhausenblas 13:25:28 +Sandro 13:25:35 +??P2 13:25:36 + +1.914.461.aacc 13:25:36 + +1.617.752.aadd 13:25:39 +Cory 13:25:39 Zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas 13:25:40 +cygri; got it 13:25:41 + +0203334aaee - is perhaps johnlsheridan 13:25:44 sandro++ 13:25:50 isn't technology great? 13:25:52 Zakim, JeniT is with johnlsheridan 13:25:52 +JeniT; got it 13:25:56 +[IPcaller.a] 13:26:03 OKAY TO CALL NOW!! 13:26:04 + +1.617.619.aaff 13:26:05 + +03539149aagg 13:26:09 ivan: :-) 13:26:22 zakim, ++??P2 is me 13:26:22 sorry, laurent_lefort_cs, I do not recognize a party named '++??P2' 13:26:24 :) 13:26:28 + +1.805.560.aahh 13:26:35 zakim, +??P2 is me 13:26:35 sorry, laurent_lefort_cs, I do not recognize a party named '+??P2' 13:26:39 + +7.942.aaii 13:26:43 So now we are goint to tell the world how to be interconnected, right! 13:26:51 zakim, ??P2 is me 13:26:51 +laurent_lefort_cs; got it 13:26:57 + +1.617.521.aajj 13:27:00 +[IPcaller.aa] 13:27:13 +[CTIC] 13:27:43 Zakim, [CTIC is martinSpain 13:27:43 +martinSpain; got it 13:28:27 gtremblay has joined #egov 13:29:06 +??P24 13:29:14 zakim, I just joined 13:29:14 I don't understand 'I just joined', danbri 13:29:18 http://www.epimorphics.com/public/presentations/ldapi/egov-presentation.html 13:29:24 RichW has joined #egov 13:29:25 zakim, ??P24 is danbri 13:29:25 +danbri; got it 13:30:27 danbri has joined #egov 13:31:06 jpf has joined #egov 13:31:11 mhausenblas: sounds like you are volunteering :-) 13:31:34 .mhausenblas... this would be good 13:31:42 mhausenblas++ 13:31:47 +1 - sorry, I should have asked for a scribe! 13:32:00 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:32:00 On the phone I see edsu, +1.865.576.aaaa, DaveReynolds, +1.573.522.aabb, DaveReynolds.a, Ivan, [IPcaller], mhausenblas, Sandro, +1.914.461.aacc, laurent_lefort_cs, +1.617.752.aadd, 13:32:03 ... Cory, johnlsheridan, [IPcaller.a], +1.617.619.aaff, +03539149aagg (muted), +1.805.560.aahh, +7.942.aaii, +1.617.521.aajj, [IPcaller.aa], martinSpain, danbri (muted) 13:32:06 johnlsheridan has johnlsheridan, JeniT 13:32:08 mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri 13:32:31 for thoe of us IRC only, please tell us the current slide...thanks! 13:32:39 ok 13:32:44 still on slide 2 I believe 13:32:52 equaliser has joined #egov 13:33:22 slide: 3 13:33:35 JeniT: goal is a middleware that hides away RDF/SPARQL complexity 13:33:39 cutlass has joined #egov 13:33:53 @sandro --> PM. 13:34:09 +Brand 13:34:19 slide: 4 13:34:21 zakim, mute me 13:34:21 Ivan should now be muted 13:34:25 s, middleware transformation to rdf-based systems is out of scope? 13:34:33 JeniT: the middleware takes HTTP request and wraps the SPARQL endpoint 13:34:50 zakim, who is talking? 13:35:02 sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (5%), Brand (9%) 13:35:38 zakim, who is talking? 13:35:42 JeniT: idea is that people deploy the middleware with API spec and serves multitude of formats 13:35:52 sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 13:36:02 ... make customisation easy 13:36:21 slide 5 13:36:30 JeniT: consumer side 13:37:12 ... the RDF format we had are 'ugly' and require changed tool chain 13:37:49 slide: 6 13:37:51 ... so in order to simplify the job we remove round-tripping and provide simple JSON 13:38:03 JeniT: query 13:38:13 ... SPARQL was perceived too complex 13:38:41 ... people want to list based on URIs 13:39:00 (great stuff, JeniT.... makes a lot of sense.) 13:39:21 juansequeda: what are the 'ugly' formats 13:39:25 what is the role of REST?/is there one? 13:39:38 JeniT: RDF/XML 13:39:57 +Rachel 13:40:03 JeniT: aim is to make it a RESTful protocol 13:40:12 ... get list of things 13:40:17 ... read-only ATM 13:40:24 is the idea for this API to have multiple implementations, or is it mainly an implementation? 13:40:30 <- question in irc as my audio is bad 13:40:52 JeniT: idea is to have a generic spec with many impls 13:41:23 i guess this is the specification currently? http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/Specification 13:41:37 DaveReynolds wil now explain how it works behind the scenes 13:41:43 Yes, that's right edsu 13:41:45 DaveReynolds: slide 7 13:42:22 ... the middleware takes HTTP request and figures how to translate it to SPARQL queries 13:42:50 ... the vocab piece is needed to map types, labels, etc. 13:43:01 slide 8 13:43:17 does the mapping have a link to e.g. the d2r-server mapping stuff 13:43:22 DaveReynolds: middleware == selector, viewer, formatter 13:44:48 (DaveReynolds explains details re the three components) 13:44:59 slide 9 13:45:19 DaveReynolds: first you need to define the endpoint 13:45:46 ... for a SPARQL endpoint you define 1..N API endpoints 13:46:20 ... and then a view definition 13:46:59 slide 10 13:47:09 DaveReynolds: using it 13:47:46 ... GET on http://epimorph-pubx1.appspot.com/proxy/api/doc/schools 13:48:05 tmarkus has joined #egov 13:48:12 slide 11 13:48:59 DaveReynolds: you get back the top-level resource 13:49:19 ... now in RDF/Turtle 13:49:54 slide 12 13:50:20 DaveReynolds: important that we return a list of resources not a set of "bindings" 13:50:29 ... conserve the linked data root 13:50:58 (this is a very healthy emphasis... the resource-centric aspect) 13:51:12 s/the linked data root/the resource-centric nature of linked data 13:51:37 DaveReynolds: further, it's paged 13:52:01 ... and finally multiple representations (JSON, RDF etc) 13:52:13 slide 13 13:52:37 DaveReynolds: just put a .json on the end and you get a JSON representation 13:53:15 + +1.303.869.aakk 13:53:35 ... result is an array which conserves the Linked Data structure 13:53:37 slide 14 13:54:00 DaveReynolds: goal was to keep the JSON simple/natural 13:54:21 ... uniform tree structure 13:55:38 ... also gives context information (mapping, etc.) 13:55:50 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:55:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas 13:55:53 slide 15 13:56:00 rrsagent, make logs public 13:56:12 DaveReynolds: filtering 13:56:24 - +1.573.522.aabb 13:56:48 ... you can narrow down by changing URI 13:57:25 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:57:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas 13:58:10 slide 16 13:58:25 DaveReynolds: sublists and patterns 13:58:46 ... package useful filters into endpoints 13:59:52 ... leverage URI patterns 14:00:30 slide 17 14:00:32 + +1.410.965.aall 14:01:06 Michael: wondering if the template is based on http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate 14:01:34 DaveReynolds: assisting with formulating queries 14:01:38 mhausenblas: no, simpler, because it's for parsing rather than generation 14:01:48 hmmm 14:01:51 mhausenblas: rather, it's *based on*, but not everything from 14:02:23 Michael: thanks JeniT - I see 14:02:31 what is the link to the spec? 14:02:48 Spec is at: http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/Specification 14:02:49 JeniT wraps up 14:03:04 JeniT: something we found we really needed 14:03:08 q? 14:03:18 we did something similar bit were concerned about acceptance: http://www.modeldriven.org/projects/EKB/XMLView.ppt 14:03:19 if you have questions, please use "q+" on irc 14:03:30 ... normal consumers (Web develeopers the scribe thinks?) not willing to handle RDF 14:03:59 q+ 14:04:02 JeniT: it simplifies many tasks 14:04:12 - +1.303.869.aakk 14:04:12 ... no need to learn SPARQL 14:04:44 sidenote : is there a way to push the json-output to the libs such as jena2? 14:05:33 JeniT: through preserving the linked data aspects the users can still extend/learn more 14:05:51 ... other side is helping the publishers of linked data 14:05:57 daniel - json-output is in an open source project and works with Jena 14:06:06 JeniT: simple config - rich API 14:06:10 + +1.303.869.aamm 14:06:18 - +1.914.461.aacc 14:06:30 DaveReynolds: ok, thx - do you have a link for that? 14:06:43 daniel - see http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/source/checkout 14:06:54 ack libby 14:06:55 q+ 14:07:00 Not yet formally released and supported ! :) 14:07:05 libby: really impressive stuff 14:07:14 q+ to ask (if someone can relay this into audio) ... any interest in going further towards full text search, ranking, auto-completion ('give me schools whose names/labels begin with...')... 14:07:21 q+ to ask slide 13 14:07:27 libby: are people now complaining less? 14:07:50 JeniT: have presented this on certain meet-ups and very positive feedback, yes 14:08:11 libby: does this include also non-RDF-people? 14:08:21 ack juansequeda 14:08:26 thanks ;-) 14:08:35 JeniT: most are sort of RDF aware, 14:09:23 juansequeda: people often think RDF == XML, what's you experiences with this? 14:09:27 Objection 1: RDF is XML. Objection 2: RDF isn't XML 14:09:32 juansequeda: future plans? 14:09:45 + +1.559.445.aann 14:10:01 ok :-) 14:10:41 edsu, it is me :) 14:10:58 mhausenblas++ 14:11:01 PHP implementation: http://code.google.com/p/puelia-php/ 14:11:18 heh 14:11:20 ack danbri 14:11:21 danbri, you wanted to ask (if someone can relay this into audio) ... any interest in going further towards full text search, ranking, auto-completion ('give me schools whose 14:11:23 Ruby implementation: http://github.com/ldodds/linked-data-api 14:11:25 ... names/labels begin with...')... 14:11:26 ack me 14:11:27 danbri: q+ to ask (if someone can relay this into audio) ... any interest in going further towards full text search, ranking, auto-completion ('give me schools whose names/labels begin with...')... 14:11:39 q? 14:11:51 q+ 14:12:13 Java implementation: http://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/ 14:12:30 JeniT, any plans of coming to the US anytime soon? 14:12:36 ack edsu 14:12:36 edsu, you wanted to ask slide 13 14:12:37 thanks dave! 14:12:41 DaveReynolds: there are some hooks for these things danbri but no active developments ATM 14:13:19 JeniT: we support extension points in the middleware 14:13:26 (i have a hunch auto-complete will end up being important...) 14:13:27 http://epimorph-pubx1.appspot.com/proxy/api/doc/schools.json 14:13:33 edsu: question re slide 13 14:13:36 ack edsu 14:14:06 edsu: so you have a list of schools 14:14:31 ... what about a link back to the API to get the JSON back 14:14:45 juansequeda, I'm over for WWW2010 and then for Semtech 2010 :) 14:15:22 DaveReynolds: at the top level (next, previous page) there is also the alternative formats 14:15:35 ... same works for item-level 14:15:39 JeniT, great Looking forward to finally meeting you at WWW2010 and at Semtech :) Any free time? Would you like to come to Austin? 14:16:13 DaveReynolds: we have not gone so far to offer it for every resource, no 14:16:30 ack Cory 14:16:38 juansequeda, probably won't have time :( But hope we can meet at the conferences 14:17:06 Cory: you mentioned XXX - plans for it? 14:17:23 XXX = update 14:17:34 DaveReynolds: current motivation and reqs stems from data.gov.uk 14:17:53 s/XXX/update 14:18:01 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:18:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:18:22 mhausenblas: i asked the question awkwardly, i meant to ask if the spec would allow people to follow their nose in the json data, so individual schools in that response would have a linked-data-api uri to get the item level json for a school 14:18:23 DaveReynolds: re updates - we'd be open to any ideas, currently not supported 14:19:13 JeniT: have seen such a requirement already, recently 14:19:48 Michael: notes http://esw.w3.org/WriteWebOfData and happy to follow up with you chaps 14:20:20 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:20:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:20:35 - +1.617.521.aajj 14:20:35 does irc.w3.org respond on port 80? 14:21:13 You're welcome :) 14:21:13 clap clap clap 14:21:14 edsu, it seems to talk irc: on :80, yes 14:21:20 - +1.805.560.aahh 14:21:21 i hadn't thought to look before :) 14:21:23 ivan drop me 14:21:28 johnlsheridan: thanks for presenting JeniT and DaveReynolds 14:21:32 * laurent claps 14:21:36 thanks all 14:21:44 - +7.942.aaii 14:21:51 -danbri 14:21:56 - +1.617.752.aadd 14:22:03 -martinSpain 14:22:09 -[IPcaller] 14:22:34 zakim, who is on the call? 14:22:34 On the phone I see edsu, +1.865.576.aaaa, DaveReynolds, DaveReynolds.a, Ivan (muted), mhausenblas, Sandro, laurent_lefort_cs, Cory, johnlsheridan, [IPcaller.a], +1.617.619.aaff, 14:22:38