13:10:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:10:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-irc
13:10:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:10:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:10:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:10:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 50 minutes
13:10:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:10:22 <trackbot> Date: 14 April 2010
13:11:16 <fjh> Regrets: Daniel_Baiges, Marco_Marengo, Suresh_Chitturi, Marcin_Hanclik
13:11:39 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:11:47 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:12:24 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0032.html
13:22:08 <maoteo> maoteo has joined #dap
13:33:51 <arve> arve has joined #dap
13:40:20 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:40:29 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
13:41:22 <ilkka> Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
13:45:52 <darobin> darobin has joined #dap
13:46:20 <fjh> Regrets+ Claes_Nilsson
13:52:50 <alissa> alissa has joined #dap
13:58:05 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:58:19 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] isme
13:58:19 <Zakim> I don't understand '[IPcaller] isme', fjh
13:58:29 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:58:29 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:59:02 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
13:59:12 <Zakim> +alissa
13:59:26 <alissa> Present+ Alissa_Cooper
13:59:48 <Zakim> +Dom
13:59:55 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:01:04 <darobin> Zakim, let me in baby!
14:01:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'let me in baby!', darobin
14:01:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:01:29 <darobin> ah
14:01:36 <darobin> Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:01:36 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:02:03 <Zakim> +AnssiK
14:02:05 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:02:10 <Zakim> +Prague-F2F
14:02:22 <wonsuk> wonsuk has joined #dap
14:02:35 <darobin> Zakim, Prague-F2F is ilkka 
14:02:35 <Zakim> +ilkka; got it
14:02:38 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:03:30 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
14:03:36 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
14:03:47 <fjh> ScribeNick: ilkka
14:03:49 <Zakim> +maxf
14:03:50 <jmorris> Present+ John_Morris
14:04:08 <maxf> Present+ Max_Froumentin
14:04:33 <jmorris> zakim, alissa holds John_Morris
14:04:33 <Zakim> +John_Morris; got it
14:04:35 <ilkka> TOPIC: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection
14:04:56 <Zakim> +LauraA
14:04:57 <fjh> 13-15 July 2010 F2F, London
14:05:20 <richt> richt has joined #dap
14:05:37 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0019.html
14:05:42 <Zakim> +wonsuk
14:05:48 <ilkka> fjh: 13-15 July is still the proposed date
14:05:55 <Zakim> +richt
14:06:01 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0029.html
14:06:07 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:06:36 <fjh> Topic: Minutes
14:06:46 <fjh> 7 April 2010
14:06:48 <Zakim> +maxf.a
14:06:57 <ilkka> robin: email thread started about the bug in ReSpec, be aware of that
14:06:57 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/att-0015/minutes-2010-04-07.html
14:07:03 <aguillou> aguillou has joined #dap
14:07:17 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: minutes from 7 April approved
14:07:22 <maxf> zakim, drop maxf
14:07:22 <Zakim> maxf is being disconnected
14:07:24 <Zakim> -maxf
14:07:30 <maxf> zakim, maxf.a is me
14:07:30 <Zakim> +maxf; got it
14:07:49 <ilkka> RESOLUTION: minutes from 7 April approved
14:08:01 <Zakim> +richt.a
14:08:10 <fjh> ruleset http://www.cdt.org/temp/privacy-rulesets.html
14:08:12 <ilkka> TOPIC: Policy Discussion
14:08:22 <fjh> rulesets draft ruleset http://www.cdt.org/temp/privacy-rulesets.html
14:08:43 <aguillou> Present+ Aurelien_Guillou
14:08:43 <fjh> s/ruleset http://www.cdt.org/temp/privacy-rulesets.html//
14:08:45 <ilkka> alissa: three elements: sharing, secondaty use and retention
14:08:52 <fjh> s/draft ruleset/draft/
14:09:07 <ilkka> alissa: most important things covered
14:09:57 <fjh> suggest we need section noting that URIs will be associated with ruleset and conveyed
14:09:58 <ilkka> alissa: for elements set of attributes are defined
14:10:35 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0047.html Frederick's comments
14:11:58 <dom> +1 on separating the ontology and the format for the time being
14:13:20 <jmorris> 2. For secondary use, 3.2, I do not understand why delivering ads is considered contextual or desired by the user.  If I want a reminder of an event, ads are not part an inherent part of that interaction (or is the suggestion that they are in order to pay for it?) Isn't this the marketing-or-profiling category?
14:13:20 <fjh> 2. For secondary use, 3.2, I do not understand why delivering ads is  
14:13:20 <fjh> considered contextual or desired by the user.  If I want a reminder of  
14:13:20 <fjh> an event, ads are not part an inherent part of that interaction (or is  
14:13:21 <fjh> the suggestion that they are in order to pay for it?) Isn't this the  
14:13:21 <fjh> marketing-or-profiling catego
14:13:53 <ilkka> jmorris: Robin has valid question about contextual ads, are they part of secondary use
14:14:04 <maoteo> maoteo has joined #dap
14:14:06 <darobin> s/Robin/Frederick/
14:15:49 <richt> q+
14:16:08 <fjh> ack richt
14:16:44 <fjh> q+
14:17:06 <fjh> q-
14:17:19 <fjh> s/^marketing-or-profiling catego//
14:17:29 <fjh> s/^the suggestion that they are in order to pay for it?) Isn't this the //
14:17:40 <fjh> s/^an event, ads are not part an inherent part of that interaction (or is//
14:17:53 <fjh> s/^considered contextual or desired by the user.  If I want a reminder of//
14:17:54 <dom> (my calculation was that the current attributes make for 432 possible options)
14:18:05 <fjh> s/^2. For secondary use, 3.2, I do not understand why delivering ads is//
14:18:29 <fjh> q+
14:19:08 <ilkka> jmorris: simplicity is essential
14:19:30 <Zakim> +Ruth_Vazquez
14:19:34 <fjh> john noted re point #2 that ads could be considered not contextual use but included for pragmatic reasons to enable adoption
14:20:15 <dom> zakim, mute Ruth_Vazquez
14:20:15 <Zakim> Ruth_Vazquez should now be muted
14:20:40 <maoteo> maria present
14:21:24 <maoteo> Present + Maria_Oteo
14:22:50 <fjh> richard asks about how rulesets will be interpreted by various parties in workflow
14:23:38 <fjh> alissa notes that policy might not have an impact on law enforcement
14:23:56 <fjh> we might need a side note as to when rulesets might not be followed.
14:25:15 <fjh> richard notes that best practices for selection of profiles is needed
14:25:52 <ilkka> richt: it's must be logical for people to select the groups of data collectors that can get the information
14:25:55 <fjh> q-
14:27:11 <richt> The suggestion is that profiles are really the business end of privacy. Millions of developers are going to have to be able to choose a profile or ruleset that defines their service...
14:27:21 <ilkka> fjh: are the privacy glossary somewhere what we can reference
14:27:33 <ilkka> s/the/there/
14:28:02 <richt> The suggestion is that privacy rulesets could be group centric (e.g. internal (service) usage, public access, 3rd-parties, law enforcement)...
14:28:33 <richt> which may allow people to logically 'follow their data' and digest and understand the privacy rulesets being provided.
14:28:44 <richt> ...to different entities.
14:28:59 <fjh> Privacy Requirements
14:29:02 <ilkka> p3p mentioned as an option
14:29:13 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0016.html
14:29:45 <ilkka> TOPIC: Policy Framework
14:29:51 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0020.html
14:30:18 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0030.html
14:31:33 <dom> Dom: fwiw, I agree we should continue working on the document to get a better idea of the scope, but I'm still concerned about the amount of specification work that specifying the whole of this would require
14:31:35 <fjh> Present+ Laura_Arribas
14:31:43 <richt> s/the privacy rulesets being provided./the data being provided.../
14:31:59 <fjh> Laura agrees we should review scope of material of document
14:32:06 <fjh> to be used
14:34:55 <ilkka> fjh: next steps to be agreed on the mailing list
14:35:27 <ilkka> TOPIC: API Discussion
14:35:35 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:35:36 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
14:35:46 <ilkka> TOPIC: Messaging  CfC
14:35:47 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (62%), ilkka (24%), wonsuk (24%)
14:35:52 <fjh> zakim, mute wonsuk
14:35:52 <Zakim> wonsuk should now be muted
14:36:11 <dom> q+
14:36:15 <dom> ack me
14:36:36 <ilkka> darobin: Messaging API CfC ongoing
14:36:46 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010/0027.html
14:36:52 <ilkka> ... Comments received from Suresh
14:36:54 <fjh> zakim, mute ilkka
14:36:54 <Zakim> ilkka should now be muted
14:37:03 <fjh> zakim, unmute ilkka
14:37:03 <Zakim> ilkka should no longer be muted
14:37:16 <maxf> +1
14:37:24 <dom> Dom: suresh made a point about the scope missing message management
14:37:31 <dom> ... given that FPWD is about scoping
14:37:32 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0018.html
14:37:44 <dom> ... I'm concerned that we don't have even a sketch of what this would be for FPWD
14:37:51 <ilkka> robin: first public draft from Messaging will be delayed
14:38:20 <maxf> … until we figure out whether to add Message Management to the specification
14:38:22 <darobin> proposed RESOLUTION: Messaging FPWD delayed until we have full scope
14:38:31 <ilkka> s/from/for/
14:39:06 <dom> q+ to suggest maybe splitting work?
14:39:11 <fjh> max notes adding mailboxes, filtering, searching
14:39:16 <ilkka> robin: main missing features are mailboxes, filtering and searching
14:39:31 <fjh> s/max notes adding mailboxes, filtering, searching//
14:39:32 <darobin> ACTION maxf to list scope of remaining work on Messaging before FPWD
14:39:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-160 - List scope of remaining work on Messaging before FPWD [on Max Froumentin - due 2010-04-21].
14:39:37 <dom> q?
14:39:50 <dom> ack me
14:39:50 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to suggest maybe splitting work?
14:40:22 <ilkka> dom: alternative option is to slip messaging spec to two parts
14:40:32 <dom> s/slip/split/
14:40:35 <dom> s/to/into/
14:40:58 <fjh> deciding on whether to split depends on time required for the additional decisions and work?
14:41:38 <fjh> q+ to ask about time frame
14:41:46 <ilkka> robin: I want to see proposal first before deciding
14:42:11 <ilkka> s/robin/darobin/
14:42:32 <fjh> q?
14:42:34 <fjh> ack fjh
14:42:34 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about time frame
14:43:31 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:43:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, alissa, Dom, darobin, AnssiK, ilkka, wonsuk (muted), richt, maxf, richt.a, Ruth_Vazquez (muted)
14:43:32 <ilkka> maxf: probably it will not take long time to come up with the needed additions
14:43:34 <Zakim> alissa has John_Morris
14:43:34 <darobin> ACTION: maxf to make a proposal for Message Management, including whether it would be split from the main spec or not
14:43:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-161 - Make a proposal for Message Management, including whether it would be split from the main spec or not [on Max Froumentin - due 2010-04-21].
14:43:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see maoteo, aguillou, richt, jmorris, wonsuk, AnssiK, alissa, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, maxf, ilkka, ingmar, shepazu, lgombos, trackbot, dom
14:44:19 <fjh> Topic: SysInfo
14:44:28 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0044.html
14:44:47 <fjh> ISSUE-79?
14:44:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-79 -- Fingerprinting privacy issue related to sysinfo, need for feedback on privacy risk -- OPEN
14:44:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/79
14:45:27 <fjh> related to minimization
14:45:43 <ilkka> maxf: comment is about access control and minimization
14:46:19 <dom> -> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/ApiCheckList API Checklist
14:47:22 <ilkka> robin: minimization is not specific issue to SysInfo
14:48:21 <ilkka> dom: check list is mainly for the last call
14:48:58 <ilkka> maxf: orientation comments is tricky to solve
14:49:06 <ilkka> s/comments/comment/
14:50:02 <ilkka> maxf: more people should review the section in SysInfo they are interested
14:50:13 <ilkka> s/section/sections/
14:51:22 <ilkka> darobin: last call will wake up people
14:51:58 <darobin> RESOLUTION: Publish a heartbeat WD of Sysinfo
14:52:11 <darobin> ACTION Robin to make SysInfo ready for pub
14:52:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Make SysInfo ready for pub [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-04-21].
14:52:39 <fjh> Topic: Calendaring
14:53:15 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Apr/0043.html
14:53:45 <ilkka> robin: calendar problems are challenging
14:53:49 <dom> q+
14:53:51 <dom> ack me
14:54:15 <richt> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Mar/0183.html
14:55:15 <fjh> dom suggests proposal - only gregorian for recurrence
14:55:16 <ilkka> dom: I support Richard's proposal of not supporting non-Gregorian calendars
14:55:47 <fjh> dom suggests deferring more complicated approach to v2
14:55:55 <ilkka> s/calendars/calendars for recurrence/
14:56:30 <richt> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Mar/0176.html
14:57:07 <ilkka> richt: time for decisions
14:57:23 <dom> dom: we could support only bounded-recurrence for non-Gregorian calendars
14:57:28 <ilkka> robin: summary mail should be generated
14:57:39 <darobin> ACTION Robin to email i18n about the various options for calendaring
14:57:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-163 - Email i18n about the various options for calendaring [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-04-21].
14:57:47 <dom> ... (i.e. in cases where there is only a finite number of events to be stored)
14:58:05 <richt> q+
14:58:27 <darobin> ack richt 
14:58:30 <ilkka> richt: some progress made offline
14:59:34 <ilkka> .. Should DAP extend ECMA Date object? Open question
15:00:42 <fjh> Topic: File System
15:00:50 <ilkka> darobin: File API: system and directories is progressing nicely
15:00:54 <darobin> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/file-system/file-dir-sys.html
15:00:58 <darobin> please review :)
15:01:23 <ilkka> Topic: AOB
15:01:41 <Zakim> -Dom
15:01:42 <Zakim> -darobin
15:01:43 <Zakim> -AnssiK
15:01:44 <Zakim> -alissa
15:01:45 <AnssiK> AnssiK has left #dap
15:01:48 <richt> richt: would be useful to resolve a couple of key issues (i.e. timezones and non-gregorian calendar support) on the mailing list this week for a semi-stable editor's draft to be published for the Calendar API...
15:01:53 <Zakim> -maxf
15:01:54 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:01:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:01:54 <richt> I'd like to do this before next call.
15:01:57 <ilkka> robin: meeting adjourned
15:02:06 <wonsuk> bye. Thanks.
15:02:06 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:02:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:02:16 <Zakim> -richt.a
15:02:17 <Zakim> -Ruth_Vazquez
15:02:22 <Zakim> -wonsuk
15:02:24 <Zakim> -fjh
15:02:28 <Zakim> -richt
15:02:29 <wonsuk> wonsuk has left #dap
15:02:33 <Zakim> -ilkka
15:02:34 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:02:35 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, Dom, darobin, AnssiK, ilkka, maxf, John_Morris, LauraA, wonsuk, richt, Ruth_Vazquez
15:03:06 <maoteo> I think Ruth was not in the call
15:03:21 <fjh> s/Topic: Policy DIscussion/Topic: Privacy Rulesets/
15:03:46 <maoteo> I think so ;)
15:04:00 <maoteo> bye
15:04:08 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:04:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:05:23 <fjh> s/<ilkka> TOPIC: Policy Discussion/<ilkka> Topic: Privacy Rulesets
15:05:29 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:05:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:06:00 <fjh> s/ilkka: TOPIC: Policy Discussion/ilkka: Topic: Privacy Rulesets/
15:06:08 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:06:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:06:41 <fjh> s/fjh: Topic: Minutes/fjh: Topic: Minutes Approval/
15:07:41 <fjh> s;fjh: s/Topic: Policy DIscussion/Topic: Privacy Rulesets/;;
15:07:57 <fjh> s/I think Ruth was not in the call//
15:08:07 <fjh> s/I think so//
15:08:09 <fjh> s/bye//
15:08:15 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:08:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:09:20 <fjh> s/fjh: marketing-or-profiling catego//
15:09:51 <fjh> s/fjh: the suggestion that they are in order to pay for it?) Isn't this the //
15:10:09 <fjh> s/fjh: an event, ads are not part an inherent part of that interaction (or is//
15:10:24 <fjh> s/fjh: considered contextual or desired by the user.  If I want a reminder of//
15:10:42 <fjh> s/fjh: 2. For secondary use, 3.2, I do not understand why delivering ads is//
15:11:06 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:11:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/14-dap-minutes.html fjh
16:05:58 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
16:31:18 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
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19:15:34 <jmorris> jmorris has left #dap