15:58:39 RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf 15:58:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-irc 15:58:41 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:58:41 Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf 15:58:43 Zakim, this will be 7322733 15:58:43 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 15:58:44 Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference 15:58:44 Date: 13 April 2010 15:58:53 Chair: Ahmed 15:59:04 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Apr/0008.html 15:59:25 Seema has joined #rdb2rdf 15:59:34 Ahmed has joined #RDB2RDF 16:00:08 SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started 16:00:15 +Seema 16:00:24 Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf 16:00:35 angela_UNITN has joined #RDB2RDF 16:00:47 +??P0 16:01:27 cygri_ has joined #rdb2rdf 16:01:40 + +1.562.249.aaaa 16:01:42 Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf 16:02:03 +Souri 16:02:16 +mhausenblas 16:02:20 +[IPcaller] 16:02:27 Souri has joined #rdb2rdf 16:02:32 +Kingsley_Idehen 16:02:35 +[IPcaller.a] 16:02:45 Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software 16:02:45 +OpenLink_Software; got it 16:02:48 +Ashok_Malhotra 16:02:51 +juansequeda 16:02:53 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 16:02:53 +MacTed; got it 16:02:55 Zakim, mute me 16:02:55 MacTed should now be muted 16:02:57 Zakim, cygri_ is with mhausenblas 16:02:59 +cygri_; got it 16:03:09 Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 16:03:09 +nunolopes; got it 16:03:15 Zakim, who's here? 16:03:15 On the phone I see Seema, ??P0, +1.562.249.aaaa, Souri, mhausenblas, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), [IPcaller.a], Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda 16:03:17 mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri_, nunolopes 16:03:18 On IRC I see Souri, Ashok, cygri_, angela_UNITN, Marcelo, Ahmed, Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, juansequeda, hhalpin, nunolopes, MacTed, LeeF, mhausenblas, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP 16:04:06 +??P32 16:05:01 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/ScribeList 16:05:10 Zakim, who's noisy? 16:05:10 Zakim, please dial ericP-office 16:05:10 ok, ericP; the call is being made 16:05:12 +EricP 16:05:22 MacTed, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.562.249.aaaa (22%), [IPcaller.a] (29%) 16:05:24 ivan? 16:07:08 I'm at chat only, no phone 16:07:45 topic: Convene RDB2RDF meeting April 13th 2010 16:08:11 roll call 16:08:15 chair: Ahmed 16:08:19 scribe: hhalpin 16:08:31 Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:08:31 On the phone I see Seema, ??P0, +1.562.249.aaaa, Souri, mhausenblas, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), [IPcaller.a], Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, ??P32, EricP 16:08:35 mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri_, nunolopes 16:08:52 Seema, MacTed, Michael, Richard, Nuno, EricP, Ashok, Juan, 16:09:39 re http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Apr/0011.html 16:09:58 please do not post files to the mailing list 16:10:03 we are in the swxg working group 16:10:11 s/swxg/rdb2rdf/ 16:10:30 mhausenblas, our bad. Dan doesn't have access to the wiki yet 16:10:43 http://www.w3.org/2010/04/06-rdb2rdf-minutes.html 16:10:45 I'm resending everything now 16:10:55 juansequeda, i never saw a google invite either 16:11:01 could you send to eric+google@w3.org ? 16:11:10 ericP, I already did. Didn't you get it? 16:11:36 ACTION-36? 16:11:36 ACTION-36 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details -- due 2010-03-30 -- OPEN 16:11:36 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/36 16:11:45 Zakim, who's noisy? 16:11:49 APPROVED: Meeting minutes approved for April 6th 2010 16:11:54 ACTION-38? 16:11:54 ACTION-38 -- Eric Prud'hommeaux to review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN 16:11:54 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/38 16:11:56 MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mhausenblas (20%), [IPcaller.a] (74%) 16:12:03 Zakim, mute me 16:12:03 sorry, hhalpin, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 16:12:14 Zakim, who's making noise? 16:12:26 hhalpin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mhausenblas (10%), EricP (37%) 16:12:42 close ACTION-36 16:12:42 ACTION-36 Review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details closed 16:12:46 close ACTION-38 16:12:46 ACTION-38 Review the UC and report back to the WG with requests for more details closed 16:12:50 topic: going through open actions 16:13:04 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open 16:13:08 ACTION-39? 16:13:08 ACTION-39 -- Harry Halpin to begin a draft of Working Group Note on use-cases, ordering them from most complete to least complete -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN 16:13:08 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/39 16:13:36 ACTION-40? 16:13:36 ACTION-40 -- Juan Sequeda to will make ER diagrams for use-case document -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN 16:13:36 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/40 16:13:49 ericP: I am interested mostly in expressivity 16:14:01 ... but others are interested in user stories 16:14:05 close ACTION-40 16:14:05 ACTION-40 Will make ER diagrams for use-case document closed 16:14:16 don't worry the expressivity requirements will become very important 16:14:51 -??P32 16:15:17 juan: angela has updated wiki with intro and motivation 16:15:30 +??P12 16:15:31 ... daniel and I were updating the spreadsheet 16:15:45 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#Introduction 16:15:48 ... but we're just giving write access to people now 16:16:38 everyone has had a chance to try to fill out their use-cases 16:16:57 Daniel: these actions are still open, people haven't really updated their use-cases 16:17:17 ... I am happy to update the spreadsheet. 16:17:23 ... but I have to nag people 16:18:30 topic: Use-Case document 16:18:49 Ahmed: the structure is motivation, use-case, and then each requirement deduced from the spreadsheet 16:18:58 Ahmed: Is anyone working on the requirements 16:19:17 ericP: I've been pooling away looking at the difference between the various requirements 16:19:33 ericP: but I have my own feelings about the characteristics of the expressivity 16:19:47 daniel: I'm pushing down that path as well, but from top-down as opposed to bottom up 16:19:52 ... we should meet at some point 16:20:37 daniel: a lot of these pieces are already written 16:20:57 ... for the use-cases, from the original workshop and the charter 16:21:12 ... if we take the time to look at the community, we can bring and borrow them into this report 16:21:17 Ahmed: Can you send us URLs? 16:21:34 http://www.w3.org/2007/03/RdfRDB/ 16:22:06 and the report at http://www.w3.org/2007/03/RdfRDB/report 16:22:24 daniel: I will mail these links out 16:24:02 Ahmed: can we pin down dates for the various sections? 16:24:29 Ahmed: because otherwise we run the risk of missing april 16:24:51 juan: the whole document needs to be done by end of April 16:25:20 Ahmed: So this week we really need to give input 16:25:34 Ahmed: I can see we have a lot of material for motivation and use-cases, but little in the way of requirements 16:25:45 Ahmed: We need a lead person for the requirements 16:26:04 Michael: Note we only have two more telecons, the 20th and 27th 16:27:02 Michael: the 27th will be during WWW2010. 16:27:54 Michael: Do you work everything out ericP including pubrules 16:28:15 ericP: The fact that there's two of us working on it is better 16:28:22 Michael: So do we work via XML 16:28:37 ericP: or directly via HTML 16:28:48 Michael: then let's use XMLspec 16:29:01 Michael: let's draft something asap. 16:29:30 Ahmed: Yes, you should create a skeleton, and then extract from the wiki and spreadsheet into the document. 16:29:39 ACTION: mhausenb to draft an Use Case WD with xml-spec 16:29:39 Created ACTION-49 - Draft an Use Case WD with xml-spec [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-04-20]. 16:30:44 angela: I am done with the motivation section mostly 16:31:06 Ahmed: so give feedback to angela this week 16:32:31 Daniel: We should kill a few that's easy, but it's harder to determine if we are missing a use-case 16:32:47 Ahmed: Every use-case should go by the end of the spreadsheet 16:32:53 Daniel: by today 16:33:51 ACTION: jsequeda to nag each of the use-cases owners to finish off the spreadsheet 16:33:51 Created ACTION-50 - Nag each of the use-cases owners to finish off the spreadsheet [on Juan Sequeda - due 2010-04-20]. 16:36:53 if possible, it will be nice to see a list of pairs 16:37:02 ACTION: hhalpin to create WBS poll for use-case document 16:37:02 Created ACTION-51 - Create WBS poll for use-case document [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-20]. 16:37:19 The final decision lies in the hands of the editors 16:37:32 who are Michael, Angela, Daniel, Juan, and Eric it seems 16:38:39 Editors are Eric and Michael 16:39:00 Ahmed: I'd be comfortable if the editors do first clean-up, and then we review next week 16:39:11 Authors are Angela, Daniel, Juan, Soeren 16:39:40 s/Soeren/Soeren and Lee 16:40:09 Ahmed: We need two dates, one for editors to clean up use-cases, and then another so we don't lose the dates. 16:40:41 Daniel: early Monday morning is the earliest deadline 16:41:19 Ahmed: Early monday morning is fine 16:41:35 +1 not missing first deadline! 16:42:08 Ahmed: You own the requirement section 16:42:53 Ahmed: ericP will be the main owner of the requirement sections. 16:42:57 ericP: works for me 16:43:39 ericP: I can do Sunday night. 16:44:47 Michael: how we get from XML document to period when it's done. 16:45:34 Zakim, who's here? 16:45:34 On the phone I see Seema, ??P0, +1.562.249.aaaa, Souri, mhausenblas, [IPcaller], MacTed (muted), [IPcaller.a], Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, EricP, ??P12 16:45:37 mhausenblas has mhausenblas, cygri_, nunolopes 16:45:39 On IRC I see Souri, Ashok, cygri_, angela_UNITN, Marcelo, Ahmed, Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, juansequeda, hhalpin, nunolopes, MacTed, LeeF, mhausenblas, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP 16:46:24 current use-cases list: , , , , , , , 16:46:30 ericP: We have faith in the editors 16:47:35 hhalpin: there will be some time 16:47:43 ... at the end of the meeting 16:48:45 michael can be able to make that meeting 16:49:08 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/use-cases/Overview.xml 16:49:32 Ahmed: So the entire XML document will be available to us a few days before the 27th, so we can draft it up quickly after the 27th to send the final version to the W3C. 16:49:54 Ahmed: no objections 16:50:08 ericP: let's have all the editors talk to Dan over the spreadsheet 16:52:15 topic: Going over use-case spreadsheet 16:53:49 ericP: descriptive text? 16:53:53 Michael: the Working Draft will appear at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/use-cases/ 16:54:05 (note that ATM there is just a minimal skeleton) 16:54:28 ericP: you would want first 16:54:34 ... more text 16:54:44 ... than one appears right now 16:54:52 Could someone update the owner info in the use-cases list I posted above? 16:55:09 ericP: the point I interpreted is to expand the use-case 16:56:02 daniel: we could have 12 pages and then several appendices. 16:56:07 Specifically, who submitted the "UniProt" use case? the "many-to-many join tables"? and the "value-based-type-spec"? 16:56:11 Souri, I just gave you access 16:56:13 q+ 16:56:49 daniel: two kinds of readers, one that wants all the details to run the code and the other that doesn't. 16:57:03 ericP: Can the person read it on the plane? How useful is UML diagram? 16:57:09 daniel: I live and die by them. 16:57:09 +1 for details in appendices 16:57:17 ack hhalpin 16:57:19 ack hhalpin 16:58:09 hrefs to #frag-ids which are within-URL appendices seems OK to me... 16:58:23 Souri, Uniprot is from Eric and the last two examples are from Lee 16:59:38 updated list just to be complete (all the info is in the spreadsheet): , , , , , , , 17:00:07 daniel: I'd prefer to keep UML diagrams in but we have to see it first 17:00:11 ... before making the decision 17:01:12 angela: do you prefer me to generate a UML for the example diagrams I gave? 17:01:17 Daniel: yes 17:01:37 ericP: intended queries 17:01:44 ... what kinds of queries to expect 17:02:23 ... wanted it to be clear that we are actually querying the database, not just doing a dump and then querying that dump 17:03:08 ... do we not want to show that people? 17:03:19 orri: I think it's important that we show this 17:03:40 orri: it should figure prominently in the intro that we do the mapping on the fly without an ETL 17:03:49 ericP: Happy to say that in words 17:03:57 ... but do we just say that it words 17:04:04 orri: we should have fairly typical queries 17:04:13 ... rely on SPARQL 1.1 regardless 17:04:27 q+ 17:04:31 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:04:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas 17:04:33 thinking that we need to check how our schedule interacts with SPARQL 1.1. 17:04:40 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:04:53 Ahmed: I think we need to show that it can work this way 17:05:01 ericP: we should have example query for each use-case 17:05:03 ack Souri 17:05:11 Souri: it's key we can't materialize on triple form 17:05:43 Souri: that's important it almost comes from there 17:05:49 ... so we don't replicate the database 17:05:57 ... but how that is done is implementation-specific 17:06:09 orri: a query for each one 17:06:13 ... may take up too space 17:06:19 ... so we can say it may translate into some SQL 17:06:28 ... although the exact SQL will only be may be translated 17:06:33 ... since we are not sure of which kind 17:07:25 -Ashok_Malhotra 17:08:03 daniel: we should not worry about implementation details 17:08:09 ericP: we can not worry about this now 17:08:17 Zakim, unmute me 17:08:17 MacTed should no longer be muted 17:09:22 Ahmed: We don't want to put in... 17:10:47 angela: I did put it in and then took it out 17:11:07 ... remember that I introduced the URIs in order to join two tables 17:11:26 Daniel: we have to adjust when making the working language 17:11:36 MacTed: We are turning use-cases into case studies 17:11:46 ... we don't need to do exhaustive example work-throughts 17:11:55 thats the actual test-cases 17:12:08 -EricP 17:13:13 angela: we will put as much as possible and then the editors can cut 17:13:21 -Souri 17:13:22 -[IPcaller] 17:13:23 -??P0 17:13:23 -mhausenblas 17:13:24 -??P12 17:13:24 -Seema 17:13:26 -juansequeda 17:13:27 - +1.562.249.aaaa 17:13:27 Meeting Adjourned 17:13:30 trackbot, end meeting 17:13:30 Zakim, list attendees 17:13:30 As of this point the attendees have been Seema, +1.562.249.aaaa, Souri, mhausenblas, [IPcaller], Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, MacTed, cygri_, nunolopes, EricP 17:13:31 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 17:13:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot 17:13:32 RRSAgent, bye 17:13:32 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-actions.rdf : 17:13:32 ACTION: mhausenb to draft an Use Case WD with xml-spec [1] 17:13:32 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-29-39 17:13:32 ACTION: jsequeda to nag each of the use-cases owners to finish off the spreadsheet [2] 17:13:32 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-33-51 17:13:32 ACTION: hhalpin to create WBS poll for use-case document [3] 17:13:32 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/13-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-37-02 17:13:47 -MacTed