IRC log of swxg on 2010-04-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:02:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:02:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc
15:02:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7994
15:02:20 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
15:02:21 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:02:21 [trackbot]
Date: 07 April 2010
15:02:22 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's here?
15:02:22 [Zakim]
I notice INC_SWXG()11:00AM has restarted
15:02:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see OpenLink_Software, ??P7
15:02:30 [tpa]
Zakim, ??P7 is me
15:02:30 [Zakim]
+tpa; got it
15:02:34 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:02:34 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
15:02:36 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:02:36 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
15:02:40 [tpa]
Zakim, mute me
15:02:40 [Zakim]
tpa should now be muted
15:02:44 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.416.aaaa
15:03:01 [Zakim]
+ +0798919aabb
15:03:34 [petef]
petef has joined #swxg
15:04:01 [Zakim]
+??P21
15:04:09 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P21 is hhalpin
15:04:09 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
15:04:22 [Zakim]
+ +1.218.296.aacc
15:04:36 [rreck]
zakim, i am +1.218.296.aacc
15:04:37 [Zakim]
+rreck; got it
15:04:37 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:37 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck
15:04:43 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:43 [Zakim]
+ +41.79.436.aadd
15:04:44 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +0798919aabb
15:04:45 [Zakim]
+ +0797094aaee
15:04:47 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
15:04:47 [Zakim]
rreck should now be muted
15:04:50 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:04:50 [mischat]
mischat has joined #swxg
15:04:52 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tpa (muted)
15:05:03 [hhalpin]
Anyone want to scribe?
15:05:12 [Zakim]
+ +39.058.368.aaff
15:05:13 [Zakim]
+??P30
15:05:22 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:05:22 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +0797094aaee
15:05:22 [mischat]
Zakim, who is on the line
15:05:24 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the line', mischat
15:05:24 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:05:24 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck (muted)
15:05:30 [hhalpin]
Ronald?
15:05:32 [rreck]
i can try
15:05:33 [melvster]
zakim, ??P30 us ne
15:05:33 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P30 us ne', melvster
15:05:36 [rreck]
im having phone issues
15:05:37 [petef]
zakim, aaee is me.
15:05:37 [Zakim]
+petef; got it
15:05:44 [Zakim]
- +0798919aabb
15:05:58 [melvster]
zakim, ??P30 is me
15:06:02 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
15:06:05 [rreck]
please state who is talking when you talk
15:06:07 [danja]
zakim, +P30 is me
15:06:07 [Zakim]
sorry, danja, I do not recognize a party named '+P30'
15:06:17 [danja]
zakim, +??P30 is me
15:06:18 [Zakim]
sorry, danja, I do not recognize a party named '+??P30'
15:06:21 [hhalpin]
topic: 1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2010-04-07
15:06:23 [Zakim]
+ +0798919aagg
15:06:26 [danja]
zakim, ??P30 is me
15:06:26 [hhalpin]
chair: hhalpin
15:06:28 [rreck]
can i do like half the scribing?
15:06:28 [Zakim]
I already had ??P30 as melvster, danja
15:06:30 [hhalpin]
scribe: rreck
15:06:36 [melvster]
danja: could you be +39.058.368.aaff ?
15:06:37 [danja]
oops
15:06:39 [mischat]
Zakim: 0798919aagg is me
15:06:43 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on phone?
15:06:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
15:06:53 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the call?
15:06:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed (muted), tpa (muted), +1.781.416.aaaa, hhalpin, rreck (muted), petef, +41.79.436.aadd, +39.058.368.aaff, melvster, +0798919aagg
15:06:53 [mischat]
Zakim, 0798919aagg is me
15:06:56 [Zakim]
sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '0798919aagg'
15:07:04 [mischat]
Zakim, +0798919aagg is me
15:07:04 [Zakim]
+mischat; got it
15:07:09 [danja]
zakim, +39.058.368.aaff is me
15:07:09 [Zakim]
+danja; got it
15:07:10 [mischat]
Zakim, mute me
15:07:11 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
15:07:18 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on chat?
15:07:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
15:07:23 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on irc?
15:07:23 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
15:07:29 [rreck]
it helps if people say who they are when they speak
15:07:54 [rreck]
but i wont be able to tell, which is my second biggest problem
15:08:04 [MacTed]
ping
15:08:13 [melvster]
ping
15:08:17 [mischat]
hello
15:08:40 [rreck]
yes
15:08:47 [tpa]
yes
15:09:28 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to approve [10]SWXG WG Weekly -- 31 March 2010 as a true record
15:10:53 [hhalpin]
hmm...can't find minutes URI.
15:11:00 [hhalpin]
Will put fixing that on next agenda.
15:11:25 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. April 14th
15:11:26 [rreck]
+1 meet again
15:11:33 [hhalpin]
Policy languages or tagging
15:11:36 [mischat]
+1
15:11:56 [rreck]
halpin: update on w3c meeting discussing social web
15:12:05 [mischat]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Apr/0001.html
15:12:16 [mischat]
harry's email sent round today ^^
15:12:21 [rreck]
halpin: meetings with google and...
15:12:36 [rreck]
halpin: need to clean up action items
15:12:40 [hhalpin]
topic: Action Reminders
15:12:45 [rreck]
halpin: or purge them
15:12:55 [rreck]
halpin: adam not here
15:13:07 [mischat]
the minutes for last meeting, doesn't seem to resolve : http://www.w3.org/2010/10/03-swxg-minutes.html
15:13:14 [rreck]
halpin: cant purge it
15:13:29 [hhalpin]
mischa?
15:13:33 [mischat]
Zakim, unmute me
15:13:33 [Zakim]
mischat should no longer be muted
15:13:42 [hhalpin]
not sure if they have evolved...
15:14:16 [rreck]
missed that
15:14:35 [hhalpin]
micha: to make a git repository with terms and conditions to see if terms and conditions and changed.
15:14:58 [hhalpin]
So we'll keep this open?
15:15:01 [hhalpin]
Yes.
15:15:01 [mischat]
yes
15:15:14 [mischat]
Zakim, mute me
15:15:14 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
15:15:23 [hhalpin]
topic: 3. Final Report Update
15:15:32 [hhalpin]
We did get our charter extension...
15:15:38 [rreck]
halpin: had charter extended
15:16:01 [rreck]
halpin: but we need to create draft final report
15:16:14 [rreck]
halpin: due at the end of this month
15:16:20 [danja]
zakim, mute me
15:16:20 [Zakim]
danja should now be muted
15:16:40 [rreck]
halpin: lets talk about this for 10-15 minutes then future speakers
15:16:52 [rreck]
lets do business first
15:17:05 [petef]
+1 for final report first
15:17:07 [rreck]
me too
15:17:18 [rreck]
christine: lets do final report, im not on irc
15:17:40 [rreck]
halpin: christines document is nice
15:17:54 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks
15:18:13 [hhalpin]
thanks christine!
15:18:16 [rreck]
christine: the idea was to contribute this to the final report and is in the public domain
15:18:22 [hhalpin]
new version?
15:18:31 [hhalpin]
new version on wiki?
15:18:50 [rreck]
christine: there is a slightly improved version, any part anywhere is appropriate
15:19:29 [hhalpin]
ACTION: hhalpin to email Renato and Christine to take into final document
15:19:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-133 - Email Renato and Christine to take into final document [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-14].
15:19:39 [rreck]
christine: there is a change in vocabulary base on feedback
15:19:52 [rreck]
halpin: we need landscape overview
15:20:16 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners
15:20:52 [mischat]
perhaps http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics
15:20:59 [hhalpin]
Hmm...looking for other wikis.
15:21:00 [rreck]
christine: can we contrast different landscapes in the final report
15:21:18 [Zakim]
- +1.781.416.aaaa
15:21:39 [rreck]
halpin: final report can link to other documents but it should be self contained
15:21:41 [hhalpin]
visual picture of how the various standards fit together?
15:21:47 [hhalpin]
literal lanscape picture
15:22:00 [hhalpin]
there references then to the other pages/code/
15:22:02 [mischat]
zakim, who is making noise ?
15:22:12 [Zakim]
mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: hhalpin (39%)
15:22:16 [rreck]
i dont hear anything except myself
15:22:28 [rreck]
my irc is beeping, do you hear that?
15:22:28 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality
15:22:31 [mischat]
nothing there
15:22:33 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality
15:22:46 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
15:22:46 [Zakim]
rreck was already muted, rreck
15:23:09 [rreck]
christine: what parts are needed?
15:23:12 [hhalpin]
landscape and picture is needed?
15:23:20 [rreck]
halpin: landscape document
15:23:24 [hhalpin]
does anyone want to take that on?
15:23:34 [rreck]
halpin: i can help but need a point person
15:23:37 [mischat]
perhaps I could help with picture
15:23:38 [petef]
I could help with the picture
15:23:46 [rreck]
thanks guys
15:23:46 [mischat]
yay petef
15:23:47 [mischat]
!
15:23:54 [petef]
yay mischat
15:23:56 [hhalpin]
ACTION: petef to help make picture of landscape
15:23:56 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - petef
15:24:02 [hhalpin]
ACTION: pferne to help make picture of landscape
15:24:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-134 - Help make picture of landscape [on Peter Ferne - due 2010-04-14].
15:24:12 [mischat]
q+
15:24:17 [hhalpin]
acki mischat
15:24:20 [hhalpin]
ack mischat
15:24:21 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
15:24:23 [Zakim]
mischat was not muted, mischat
15:24:39 [rreck]
christine: will we have usecases in final report?
15:24:58 [hhalpin]
the latter, the technology space.
15:25:00 [rreck]
mischat: technologies in landscape picture?
15:25:01 [petef]
I assume that too
15:25:07 [petef]
Please do hhalpin
15:25:14 [petef]
forward those diagrams
15:25:14 [mischat]
zakim, mute me
15:25:14 [Zakim]
mischat should now be muted
15:25:17 [hhalpin]
use-case document
15:25:23 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:25:35 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:25:44 [hhalpin]
tpa? is that latest version?
15:25:44 [tpa]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea
15:25:52 [mischat]
:)
15:26:38 [mischat]
wow
15:26:57 [rreck]
im missing some stuff, sorry
15:27:06 [rreck]
trim narrative
15:27:20 [rreck]
some talk about refining document
15:27:29 [rreck]
christine: put some stuff in appendix?
15:27:49 [hhalpin]
its pretty solid.
15:28:25 [rreck]
halpin: how many people know W3C web architecture document?
15:28:27 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/
15:28:40 [hhalpin]
well, anything with a URI is a resource
15:28:48 [hhalpin]
so that would include text, profiles, video, audio
15:28:59 [hhalpin]
anything that has a URI as is retrievved by HTTP GET
15:29:08 [hhalpin]
video/audio/etc. etc. are actually media types
15:29:27 [hhalpin]
Uploading, publishing user-generated text (blog post) with or without tags
15:29:38 [hhalpin]
Uploading, publishing user-generated images (photos) with or without tags
15:30:11 [hhalpin]
Uploading, publishing any user-generated resource with or without tags
15:31:22 [rreck]
christine: set size and simplify
15:31:29 [hhalpin]
boil it down to a dozen...
15:31:30 [mischat]
hhalpin: are the invited talks going to be included in the final report ?
15:31:48 [hhalpin]
yes, the invited talks need to be summarized somewhat.
15:33:14 [hhalpin]
maybe some headings?
15:33:27 [hhalpin]
in section 3
15:33:39 [hhalpin]
I would say only a few sentences.
15:33:39 [rreck]
two ways to do this... summary of each lvl 2 section
15:34:02 [rreck]
extracting important stories as a sample
15:34:07 [mischat]
section 3 headings : http://mmt.me.uk/p/hVhvzh
15:34:08 [rreck]
i dont know who is talking
15:34:15 [mischat]
rreck: that is tpa
15:34:18 [rreck]
ty
15:34:36 [rreck]
halpin: three main stories
15:34:50 [rreck]
halpin: final report will have entire usecase document
15:35:05 [rreck]
halpin: 2 or 3 sentences as summaries, bullet points
15:35:19 [hhalpin]
10 bullet point with 2-3 sentences
15:35:33 [hhalpin]
and choose 2-3 stories
15:35:46 [rreck]
tpa: 1-2 lines on each story
15:35:51 [mischat]
which stories ? these ones ? http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories
15:35:58 [rreck]
halpin: agreed that is fine
15:36:06 [rreck]
halpin: its due at the end of the month
15:36:38 [rreck]
halpin: dont add more but look at the ones we have done
15:36:43 [hhalpin]
ACTION: tpa to write 2-3 sentences for each story
15:36:43 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - tpa
15:36:49 [hhalpin]
ACTION: tanglade to write 2-3 sentences for each story
15:36:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-135 - Write 2-3 sentences for each story [on Tim Anglade - due 2010-04-14].
15:37:24 [rreck]
tpa: a lot of work went into some of them but may not be useful as it is
15:37:43 [rreck]
christine: i will be back up editor, i have to leave the call now
15:37:45 [Zakim]
- +41.79.436.aadd
15:38:28 [rreck]
halpin: w3c is looking for ...have technologies the exist interested in standarization?
15:38:35 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests
15:38:44 [hhalpin]
ACTION: hhalpin to re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future standardizati
15:38:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-136 - Re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future standardizati [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-14].
15:38:50 [rreck]
tpa: what is the format of final report?
15:39:01 [rreck]
halpin: its loose
15:39:06 [rreck]
tpa: on the wiki?
15:39:17 [rreck]
halpin: on wiki or...
15:39:22 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport
15:39:33 [hhalpin]
here's a draft page to start cut and pasting things.
15:39:47 [hhalpin]
and I have automated scripts...
15:40:01 [hhalpin]
let's just cut and paste stuff into this page.
15:40:18 [rreck]
tpa: is there an outline?
15:40:30 [rreck]
halpin: problem, definition
15:40:41 [rreck]
halpin: usecase, technology landscape
15:40:45 [hhalpin]
I think it should go 1) Problem 2) Definitions 3) Use-Cases 4) Technology Landscape 5) Future Standardization
15:40:49 [FabGandon]
FabGandon has left #swxg
15:40:53 [hhalpin]
I'm happy to focus on 4) and 5)
15:41:04 [hhalpin]
Tim takes on 3)
15:41:17 [hhalpin]
1) and 2) fairly straightforward manner
15:41:42 [rreck]
halpin: do people feel comfortable?
15:41:45 [hhalpin]
which we have about 3 weeks to finish
15:41:46 [rreck]
silence
15:41:49 [hhalpin]
:)
15:41:57 [mischat]
+1 to comfortable
15:42:42 [danja]
zakim, unmute me
15:42:42 [Zakim]
danja should no longer be muted
15:42:55 [rreck]
halpin: w3c wants to be more....
15:42:57 [hhalpin]
topic: future of w3c and rdf
15:43:06 [hhalpin]
make some of the standard more lightweight and agile
15:43:10 [rreck]
more lightweight
15:43:11 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/02/date_and_place_of_the_rdf_next.html
15:43:22 [hhalpin]
http://www.w3.org/2009/12/rdf-ws/
15:43:31 [hhalpin]
This tension in the XG and the general landscape
15:43:39 [hhalpin]
between RDF, XMPP, and Atom as the baseline data format.
15:43:43 [hhalpin]
for social web work.
15:43:55 [mischat]
mmm is xmpp is a data format ?
15:43:58 [hhalpin]
Chris Messina activity streams - why he chose Atom and Pubsubhub?
15:44:12 [hhalpin]
XEP and Pubsubhubhub for realtime updating
15:44:20 [danja]
http://activitystrea.ms/
15:44:26 [Zakim]
-tpa
15:44:27 [Zakim]
-danja
15:44:27 [Zakim]
-petef
15:44:37 [hhalpin]
lost a lot of people?
15:44:38 [danja]
grr
15:44:39 [hhalpin]
what happened there.
15:44:43 [tpa]
woah, holy phone split batman
15:44:51 [hhalpin]
we'll hold on...
15:45:00 [hhalpin]
I'll just keep up in IRC
15:45:10 [Zakim]
+??P0
15:45:26 [hhalpin]
anyways, there was definite interest in improving the RDF and Atom story, perhaps using Atom as some sort of RDF syntax
15:45:35 [Zakim]
+petef
15:45:54 [Zakim]
+danja
15:45:55 [mischat]
that could go into section 5 perhaps
15:46:23 [tpa]
http://machinesplusminds.blogspot.com/2010/04/ietf-and-membership-via-corporation.html
15:46:28 [hhalpin]
thanks!
15:47:16 [rreck]
halpin: membership discuss about alternatives
15:47:31 [hhalpin]
http://www.odata.org/
15:47:36 [mischat]
")
15:47:36 [hhalpin]
Odata work by Microsoft?
15:47:43 [hhalpin]
Open Data format
15:47:50 [hhalpin]
which is seemingly a sort of alternative to RDF
15:47:54 [mischat]
lovely, very similar, they even have bnodie type things
15:48:59 [hhalpin]
Make a connection between Atom and RDF world
15:49:07 [danja]
http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html
15:49:49 [danja]
http://djpowell.net/blog/entries/Atom-RDF.html
15:50:20 [hhalpin]
http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/atom-activity-01.html
15:50:25 [hhalpin]
Activity-Streams spec
15:50:43 [rreck]
i can hear, but im lost
15:51:00 [hhalpin]
pubsubhub spec
15:51:02 [hhalpin]
http://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.3.html
15:51:08 [rreck]
danja: said a ton of stuff
15:51:11 [hhalpin]
rreck - just try your best
15:51:15 [danja]
sorry!
15:51:28 [hhalpin]
let's model Atom *inside* RDF
15:51:29 [mischat]
there has been lots of work in the atom world, and the pubhubsub world
15:51:34 [hhalpin]
to a model of Atom
15:51:45 [hhalpin]
the other is to look at Atom itself as a way of serializing RDF.
15:51:53 [hhalpin]
and providing updates to changes in triple-stores
15:51:58 [hhalpin]
RSS 1.0 to do that
15:52:13 [rreck]
halpin: user has action
15:52:16 [hhalpin]
user [action] possibly on a [subject]
15:52:24 [hhalpin]
and that at least in [actions] are given URIs.
15:52:30 [hhalpin]
but you can imagine being given URIs.
15:52:37 [rreck]
sound reasonable to me
15:52:38 [hhalpin]
RDF/XML
15:52:40 [mischat]
danbri has been working on sparql over xmpp to update triplestore
15:52:46 [danja]
(in activity streams)
15:52:55 [danja]
oops - further up
15:53:15 [hhalpin]
to go with IETF over W3C?
15:53:42 [hhalpin]
link mischat?
15:53:43 [rreck]
danja: W#C might be accused of being heavy handed and forcing the use of RDF
15:54:07 [mischat]
http://danbri.org/words/2008/02/11/278
15:54:21 [rreck]
danja: work out mapping of RDF and ATOM
15:54:23 [mischat]
i recall a atom+rdfa work
15:54:34 [rreck]
danja: seems like low hanging fruit
15:54:44 [hhalpin]
atom+rdfa?
15:54:50 [mischat]
http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/wai-talk-xmpp
15:54:51 [hhalpin]
I've seen DataRSS work...
15:54:56 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
15:54:56 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
15:55:12 [mischat]
danbri talking sparql + xmpp --- i think there is working code somewhere
15:55:48 [hhalpin]
O'Reilly codezoo...RDF as payload in Atom.
15:55:50 [danbri]
yeah, i think steve has something
15:55:58 [mischat]
yeah steve does too
15:56:34 [mischat]
danbri: do you have links to rdfa+atom ?
15:56:45 [hhalpin]
big difference between having RDFa and RDF/XML in payload.
15:57:11 [Zakim]
-melvster
15:57:16 [hhalpin]
I guess RDF into Atom as possible.
15:57:22 [hhalpin]
RDF model in Atom as possible.
15:57:26 [hhalpin]
named-valued pairs
15:57:34 [mischat]
harry asks, does anyone have any ideas around making RDF easily transports via atom ?
15:57:59 [hhalpin]
quite unspecified - some fairly arbitrary XML.
15:58:26 [danja]
all in http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4287.txt
15:58:29 [melvster1]
melvster1 has joined #swxg
15:58:29 [danbri]
well google yahoosearchmonkey's datarss maybe?
15:58:38 [Zakim]
+??P1
15:58:45 [rreck]
halpin: nice if social web xg explained why rdf is not always used
15:59:06 [melvster1]
zakim, ??P1 is me
15:59:20 [Zakim]
+melvster1; got it
15:59:28 [mischat]
what is wrong with rss1
15:59:36 [hhalpin]
The Social Web XG put a paper forwards?
15:59:41 [rreck]
im sorry i have to leave the phone
15:59:54 [hhalpin]
well, you can put turtle in atom payload
15:59:56 [mischat]
i will take over rreck
16:00:00 [rreck]
thanks man
16:00:12 [rreck]
im doing poorly anyway
16:00:29 [Zakim]
-rreck
16:00:36 [mischat]
links elements in atom ... they might be able to used to put triples into atom
16:00:41 [hhalpin]
re-presenting Atom data as RDF or RDF model as Atom.
16:01:36 [hhalpin]
not sure about perfectly reversible translation
16:02:15 [petef]
I have to go. Bye all.
16:02:21 [danja]
bye
16:02:26 [Zakim]
-petef
16:03:30 [mischat]
mischat has joined #swxg
16:04:15 [hhalpin]
Probably not RDF/XML community :)
16:04:21 [hhalpin]
community that uses triples
16:04:51 [hhalpin]
odata is a restatement of the rdf model
16:04:52 [mischat]
but XML has a lot of mature transport mechanisms
16:05:05 [mischat]
and hence why rdfxml is useful
16:05:08 [mischat]
albeit ugly
16:06:02 [hhalpin]
modelling atom in rdf lets atom be put in triple store.
16:06:10 [mischat]
does SPARQL 1.1 solve the same problems
16:06:13 [mischat]
doesn't
16:06:25 [mischat]
uploading data to triplestores
16:06:40 [melvster]
this is a great discussion
16:06:49 [Zakim]
-tpa
16:07:20 [mischat]
rdf lite ? link danny?
16:07:59 [mischat]
http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn
16:08:23 [melvster]
there's also: http://webofdata.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/data-and-the-web-choices/
16:08:27 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
16:08:27 [Zakim]
mischat should no longer be muted
16:08:34 [danbri]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:08:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see MacTed, hhalpin, mischat, danja, melvster1
16:09:03 [danbri]
oh crap, i timezone'd out
16:09:28 [hhalpin]
mischat: rdfa is quite a bit buggy
16:09:34 [mischat]
ntriples
16:11:03 [mischat]
http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/faq.html
16:11:11 [mischat]
search monkey ^^ dataRSS
16:11:15 [mischat]
which is atom+rdfa
16:11:25 [danja]
mischat : rdf lite = my shorthand for rdf next step
16:11:31 [mischat]
ok
16:11:38 [mischat]
http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/understand_datarss.html
16:14:17 [hhalpin]
if turtle as a payload could be solved as RDF?
16:14:31 [mischat]
then why are you talking about the serialisation
16:15:28 [melvster]
facebook for example, said they looked at using rdf (i cant remember for which feature), but found other choices less complicated
16:16:18 [mischat]
they bought friendfeed which where rdfers
16:16:28 [mischat]
and then ff seemed to simply vanish post buyout
16:16:59 [mischat]
agree hhalpin
16:17:01 [mischat]
agrred
16:17:28 [mischat]
which is what are DataRSS @ yahoo are trying to do
16:17:45 [hhalpin]
existing streams RDFize directly
16:17:53 [hhalpin]
1) transfer turtle as a payload
16:18:06 [mischat]
no
16:18:10 [mischat]
not closely
16:18:23 [mischat]
yeah
16:18:27 [hhalpin]
2) use the link element to hook into RDF
16:18:41 [hhalpin]
3) directly RDF-ize Atom at either input or output stage
16:18:51 [hhalpin]
4) Put RDFa into Atom?
16:18:53 [hhalpin]
maybe that
16:18:54 [MacTed]
facebook found RDF/XML too complicated, as I recall ... more conflation of model with serialization making the model unattractive
16:19:01 [mischat]
but talking about "turtle", surely we should be able to send any RDF, serialisation independent
16:19:28 [hhalpin]
I imagine people would want to scrape minimal amount of RDF out of Atom
16:19:32 [hhalpin]
not necessarily all of Atom.
16:19:37 [mischat]
examples would go along way in grddl world
16:20:03 [hhalpin]
yes we don't have a standard grddl transform for Atom - I tried a while back to get consensus between the 3 or 4 we had out there, bu tno luck
16:23:18 [rreck]
xslt is hard because its event driven
16:24:24 [mischat]
zakim, unmute me
16:24:24 [Zakim]
mischat was not muted, mischat
16:24:59 [melvster]
delete and insert
16:26:27 [hhalpin]
ok, I gotta run, will try to draft something up
16:26:40 [melvster]
this is the diagram timbl talked about: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/social/acl-arch.png
16:26:43 [mischat]
so we need more standards
16:26:54 [mischat]
:)
16:27:26 [hhalpin]
trackbot, end meeting
16:27:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:27:26 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been tpa, MacTed, +1.781.416.aaaa, +0798919aabb, hhalpin, +1.218.296.aacc, rreck, +41.79.436.aadd, +0797094aaee, petef, melvster, mischat,
16:27:27 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:27:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html trackbot
16:27:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-actions.rdf :
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: hhalpin to email Renato and Christine to take into final document [1]
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-19-29
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: petef to help make picture of landscape [2]
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-23-56
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: pferne to help make picture of landscape [3]
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-24-02
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: tpa to write 2-3 sentences for each story [4]
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-36-43
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: tanglade to write 2-3 sentences for each story [5]
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-36-49
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: hhalpin to re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future standardizati [6]
16:27:28 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc#T15-38-44
16:27:29 [Zakim]
... danja, melvster1