IRC log of swcg on 2010-04-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:35:30 [RRSAgent]
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12:35:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:35:37 [ivan]
zakim, this will be swcg
12:35:37 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; I see SW_CG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
12:35:44 [ivan]
rrsagent, set log public
12:35:57 [ivan]
Meeting: W3C SW Coordination Group Telco
12:36:01 [ivan]
Chair: Ivan
12:36:06 [ivan]
Scribe: Tom
12:47:51 [manu_]
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12:47:52 [raphael]
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12:49:02 [manu-work]
manu-work has changed the topic to: Semantic Web Coordination Group (manu-work)
12:53:23 [ChrisW]
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12:58:40 [TomB]
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12:58:49 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
12:58:49 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
12:58:50 [Zakim]
SW_CG()9:00AM has now started
12:58:51 [Zakim]
12:59:26 [Zakim]
12:59:27 [Zakim]
12:59:27 [Zakim]
12:59:30 [manu-work]
zakim, I am ??P10
12:59:30 [Zakim]
+manu-work; got it
12:59:45 [mscottm]
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13:00:09 [ChrisW]
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13:00:15 [Zakim]
13:00:19 [Zakim]
13:00:28 [Zakim]
+Tom_Baker (was ??P12)
13:00:44 [Zakim]
13:01:19 [ivan]
scribenick: TomB
13:02:02 [Zakim]
13:03:24 [Zakim]
13:03:49 [joakim]
joakim has joined #swcg
13:04:03 [manu-work]
zakim, me, is joakim
13:04:03 [Zakim]
+joakim; got it
13:04:04 [Zakim]
13:04:21 [ivan]
zakim, who is here
13:04:21 [Zakim]
ivan, you need to end that query with '?'
13:04:30 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
13:04:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ivan, manu-work, Raphael, Tom_Baker, mscottm, ChrisW, joakim, mhausenblas
13:05:00 [sandro]
zakim not working.
13:05:20 [sandro]
I know, but I can't get on.
13:05:27 [manu-work]
13:05:29 [Zakim]
13:05:34 [sandro]
(now on)
13:07:11 [TomB]
Introductions: MichaelH, ManuS, Rafael, Tom, Scott, ChrisW, Joakim...
13:07:21 [raphael]
13:07:37 [TomB]
Joakim: senior associate at Ericsson, Sweden, works with multimedia indexing - co-chair media annotation WG
13:08:00 [TomB]
...Introductions: Sandro (and of course Ivan)
13:08:11 [TomB]
Topic: Admin
13:08:24 [ivan]
-> minutes of last meeting
13:08:54 [TomB]
Resolved: minutes from 2010-03-10 accepted.
13:09:03 [TomB]
Next meeting: 2010-04-21
13:10:20 [TomB]
Topic: Media Annotation WG update
13:11:19 [TomB]
Joakim: Have been working for 1.5 years, now close to Last Call for our ontology and API spec.
13:11:42 [TomB]
... More or less successfully managed to map 20 formats and core set of ?20 attributes
13:12:17 [TomB]
... Want to make sure we have not missed any. Want to specify "exact", "close", "related".
13:12:33 [TomB]
... We also consider datatypes. Not trivial.
13:12:42 [manu-work]
URL to latest editors draft?
13:12:53 [TomB]
... We have mapping table. Recently query from BBC re: RDF implementation of ontology.
13:13:19 [TomB]
... Many are keen on SW technologies, so Task Group in group to pursue this as parallel activity - not in charter.
13:13:31 [raphael]
Ontology for Media Resources 1.0:
13:13:43 [raphael]
API for Media Resources 1.0:
13:13:45 [TomB]
... Working on API defined with Web ADL
13:13:54 [raphael]
Use Cases and Requirements document:
13:14:15 [TomB]
... put out current specs - have review from Opera and others.
13:14:50 [ivan]
13:14:52 [TomB]
... would like to have review process finished in order to hold Last Call in April or May
13:14:55 [manu-work]
q+ to ask about Connected Media Experience.
13:15:27 [TomB]
q+ to ask about Vocabulary Mapping Framework
13:16:01 [ivan]
ack manu-work
13:16:01 [Zakim]
manu-work, you wanted to ask about Connected Media Experience.
13:16:45 [TomB]
Manu: Does the MA prefix in section 4.1.2. map to a known URL, described by RDF document - do we expect people would be able to use this ontology directly?
13:17:04 [TomB]
Ivan: Use ma:creator or dc:creator?
13:17:14 [manu-work]
q+ to ask about Connected Media Experience?
13:17:38 [TomB]
Joakim: Spec currently in prose, so no RDF implementation or defining a namespace. Currently not on the agenda. Will not be part of the recommendation.
13:17:52 [TomB]
Ivan: Doesn't tell me how to add metadata in RDF.
13:17:53 [raphael]
13:17:59 [ivan]
ack TomB
13:17:59 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to ask about Vocabulary Mapping Framework
13:18:03 [mscottm]
q+ to ask what is the greatest barrier to adoption by (which?) target community?
13:18:12 [ivan]
scribenick: ivan
13:18:32 [ivan]
Tom: Jisc undertook a vocabulary mappiung framework, how does it relate?
13:18:52 [ivan]
... i am unusure about what mapping initiatives try to achieve
13:19:02 [ivan]
... do you know about that?
13:19:15 [ivan]
joakim: I did not know about that initiative
13:19:18 [ivan]
... reference?
13:19:26 [ivan]
TomB: already did
13:19:29 [mscottm]
13:20:03 [ivan]
... my general question is: from a sw point of view we have a landscape of vocabularies, and now we have these mapping initiatives
13:20:20 [ivan]
... and the question is what the function of those mappings is supposed to be
13:20:23 [manu-work]
Vocabulary mixing is also going to become very prevalent when RDFa 1.1 hits the web next year.
13:20:42 [ivan]
... is it something that augments the use of distributed vocabularies, or does it replace them?
13:20:57 [ivan]
joakim: we did discuss that
13:21:11 [ivan]
... some members would like to see a specification with rdf
13:21:17 [ivan]
... it is still not excluded
13:21:21 [TomB]
Joakim: Some members want to see RDF implementation but still not excluded - would be like a slice
13:21:36 [ivan]
scribenick: TomB
13:22:04 [TomB]
... Another common question: how does it relate to DC? At time DC was developed - there is no semantics of relationships to other attributes.
13:22:06 [ivan]
13:22:36 [TomB]
... Our attributes could be viewed as a vocabulary. We have attributes that are terms. Very easy to make ontology - the long-term purpose.
13:23:07 [TomB]
... We have semantic relationships in place. But group did not want to demand a technology in the implementation - would make it less useful.
13:23:09 [ivan]
ack manu-work
13:23:09 [Zakim]
manu-work, you wanted to ask about Connected Media Experience?
13:23:21 [manu-work]
13:24:13 [TomB]
Manu: New standard being worked on that has strong overlap with Media Fragments - express music, television, movies, on Web in standard way - using RDF as base mechanism
13:27:53 [joakim]
13:30:11 [TomB]
13:31:05 [ivan]
ack raphael
13:32:01 [TomB]
Raphael: So this is basically a mapping and the working group is asking how to represent and whether it should be implemented somehow. Explicit RDF, SKOS, etc?
13:32:35 [TomB]
Joakim: Good summary.
13:33:57 [ivan]
ack mscottm
13:33:57 [Zakim]
mscottm, you wanted to ask what is the greatest barrier to adoption by (which?) target community?
13:34:15 [manu-work]
Joakim, Raphael: my e-mail: - follow up with me after the telecon.
13:35:16 [TomB]
Scott: In meantime, re: participating in W3C, in Health Care - seen other groups being created. Question: Specific apps that will help improve uptake of your work? Barriers to uptake?
13:35:33 [ivan]
ack joakim
13:36:25 [TomB]
Joakim: Two scenarios: one implemented in browser, another as Web service (if you are a metadata aggregator)
13:37:29 [TomB]
?: Do you see need for provenance for metadata?
13:37:45 [manu-work]
Provenance shouldn't be their problem, right?
13:37:49 [manu-work]
it's in a different layer?
13:37:53 [TomB]
Joakim: not mentioned in spec, but should be covered by different layer.
13:38:00 [ivan]
ack TomB
13:38:20 [manu-work]
yes, that's right Tom.
13:39:43 [raphael]
My Slides:
13:39:53 [TomB]
Topic: Media Fragments
13:40:39 [TomB]
Raphael: Spoke to CG one year ago. 15 active participants.
13:41:21 [TomB]
... Goal: URI-based mechanism for identifying media fragments on Web.
13:41:36 [TomB]
... We spent several months on use cases.
13:41:44 [TomB]
... Slides 4 and 5 are user stories.
13:42:25 [TomB]
... People who want to share delimited sequences of videos and get URI to share via microblogging
13:43:08 [TomB]
... Lena wants to browse audio tracks of videos - not send all tracks over wire, but select tracks for display
13:44:46 [TomB]
... refer by name to particular chapters ...
13:45:26 [TomB]
... Slide 7: Media Fragment URI Syn tax for Time, Space, Track, and Name
13:46:03 [TomB]
... API in Javascript - browser can find out what tracks are available
13:46:40 [TomB]
... Track and Name are trickier, especially Int'ln problems
13:47:03 [TomB]
... Slide 8: Normally, hash is stripped out before sending to sever.
13:47:08 [TomB]
... will slightly change...
13:47:29 [TomB]
... we foresee smart agents that do not throw out hash, but encode into HTTP headers
13:47:43 [TomB]
... in order to serve fragments requested
13:48:00 [TomB]
... current browsers will just ignore - not break.
13:48:51 [TomB]
... Slide 9: http request, smart user agent can make mapping
13:49:16 [TomB]
... can expose response
13:49:41 [TomB]
.... Slide 10: what is sent back is just the bytes corresponding to the sequence
13:49:57 [TomB]
... with HTML5 browser
13:50:40 [TomB]
... Slide 11: user needs server help. Custom units can be used in range requests.
13:51:01 [TomB]
... will extract bytes and send back with 206 partial content
13:51:26 [TomB]
... mapping between time and bytes, packages sent back to users.
13:52:05 [TomB]
... Slide 13: Optimization of Recipe 2. Question in seconds, answer in bytes.
13:52:42 [TomB]
... win cachability with this recipe
13:53:42 [TomB]
... Slide 15: optimization, different - request expressed in seconds, but serves multi-part response - not just bytes corresponding to sequence, but playable response
13:54:52 [ivan]
works for me
13:55:13 [ivan]
worked for me, highlighting raphael:-)
13:55:16 [TomB]
... Slide 16: Demo. Click on Media Fragments player. Click on GO. Can just play sequence that is highlighted.
13:55:45 [TomB]
... click on Silvia's experiment with HTML5 and Javascript.
13:56:08 [ivan]
that one does not work in safari:-(
13:56:55 [TomB]
... implementations in pipeline for HTML5
13:57:13 [TomB]
... normally should work with Safari, Opera, Chrome, Mozilla
13:57:20 [ivan]
13:57:28 [manu-work]
q+ to discuss server implementation
13:57:34 [ivan]
ack manu-work
13:57:34 [Zakim]
manu-work, you wanted to discuss server implementation
13:58:10 [TomB]
Manu: Is this something we are expecting Apache and IIS teams to pick up and implement, or expecting modules that Apache uses? How do we expect this to be used in field?
13:58:13 [ivan]
13:58:47 [TomB]
Raphael: Currently talking with Squid (proxies) - hope to have Apache modules. Would be codec-dependent.
13:59:02 [TomB]
... would aim at good coverage of major formats.
13:59:10 [manu-work]
This would be very useful for <video> and <audio> tags in HTML5.
13:59:17 [ivan]
ack ivan
13:59:38 [manu-work]
q+ what about <video> and <audio> tags?
14:00:12 [Zakim]
14:00:20 [TomB]
Ivan: On client side, talking with browser vendors? Opera in WG, impelementing. Longer-term, will be native. Mozilla patch. Apple is in WG.
14:00:26 [TomB]
... Imagine it will be supported.
14:00:35 [ivan]
14:00:45 [manu-work]
ack what,
14:00:51 [ivan]
14:00:54 [manu-work]
ack what
14:00:56 [manu-work]
ack about
14:00:59 [manu-work]
ack <video>
14:01:02 [manu-work]
ack <audio>
14:01:03 [TomB]
... We are in close touch with HTML5 working group.
14:01:04 [manu-work]
ack tags?
14:01:10 [manu-work]
14:01:23 [TomB]
... "Yes, will work with fragments".
14:01:26 [ivan]
ack manu-work
14:01:45 [TomB]
Manu: Video and audio tags is primary element targeted?
14:02:20 [TomB]
Raphael: Targeting both, but any URI you put in browser bar. Flash clients that can also handle. Not just HTML5. But HTML5 really pushing.
14:02:41 [TomB]
... HTML5 covering understanding hash fragments.
14:02:42 [ivan]
14:02:58 [TomB]
ChrisW?: QuickTime versus Flash?
14:03:45 [ivan]
14:03:47 [TomB]
Raphael: not really. Main problem with both: plug-in within browser. So if looking in browser environment, need communication with plug-in - security issues.
14:04:10 [TomB]
... Native audio and video HTML browsers handier to implement.
14:04:54 [TomB]
Ivan: URI structure will give additional structure for talking about fragments of media.
14:05:19 [TomB]
Meeting adjourned - thank you Raphael and Joakim.
14:05:29 [mscottm]
thanks all! bye!
14:05:29 [Zakim]
14:05:30 [Zakim]
14:05:31 [Zakim]
14:05:32 [Zakim]
14:05:32 [Zakim]
14:05:34 [ivan]
zakim, drop me
14:05:34 [Zakim]
Ivan is being disconnected
14:05:34 [Zakim]
14:05:36 [Zakim]
14:05:42 [TomB]
query manu-work
14:05:49 [manu-work]
14:05:50 [ivan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ivan
14:06:03 [ivan]
zakim, who is here?
14:06:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tom_Baker
14:06:09 [manu-work]
14:06:12 [manu-work]
want me to dial back in?
14:06:48 [ivan]
zakim is still alive so manu can simply dial back
14:06:49 [manu-work]
call back in?
14:07:05 [ivan]
yes, the reservation for the call is until half past...
14:07:19 [Zakim]
14:14:58 [manu-work]
raphael - my skype ID: msporny - can we have a short chat in 15 minutes?
14:29:10 [Zakim]
14:29:11 [Zakim]
14:29:11 [Zakim]
SW_CG()9:00AM has ended
14:29:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ivan, manu-work, Raphael, Tom_Baker, mscottm, ChrisW, joakim, mhausenblas, Sandro, [IPcaller]
14:29:24 [ivan]
zakim, bye
14:29:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swcg
14:29:29 [ivan]
rrsagent, bye
14:29:29 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items