15:47:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:47:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/24-CSS-irc
15:47:15 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
15:47:15 <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
15:47:24 <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:50:22 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #css
15:52:11 <oyvind> oyvind has joined #css
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15:56:35 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:42 <Zakim> +plinss
15:58:15 <glazou> phone problems again
15:58:44 <dethbakin> dethbakin has joined #css
15:58:50 <howcome> howcome has joined #css
15:59:22 <Zakim> +sylvaing
15:59:52 <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aaaa
16:00:00 <Zakim> +glazou
16:00:13 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:00:18 <plinss> zakim, aaaa is howcome
16:00:18 <Zakim> +howcome; got it
16:00:29 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aabb
16:00:35 <TabAtkins> Zakim, aabb is me
16:00:36 <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
16:00:50 <arronei> zakim, Microsoft is me
16:00:51 <Zakim> +arronei; got it
16:00:52 <Zakim> + +1.617.650.aacc
16:00:57 <Zakim> +bradk
16:01:02 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #css
16:01:11 <dethbakin> +1.617.650.aacc is me
16:01:26 <glazou> Zakim, aacc is dethbakin 
16:01:26 <Zakim> +dethbakin; got it
16:01:42 <dethbakin> thanks glazou :-)
16:01:46 <glazou> np
16:02:30 <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
16:02:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, sylvaing, howcome, glazou, arronei, TabAtkins, dethbakin, bradk
16:02:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, howcome, dethbakin, bradk, oyvind, sylvaing, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, TabAtkins, dydz, shepazu, szilles, jdaggett_zzz, Lachy, fantasai, anne, dbaron, arronei,
16:02:37 <Zakim> ... krijnh, karl, jgraham, Hixie, jdaggett_away, Bert, plinss, trackbot
16:02:42 <Zakim> +smfr
16:02:59 <smfr> smfr has joined #css
16:03:00 <ChrisL> zakim, code?
16:03:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ChrisL
16:04:15 <TabAtkins> Yus.
16:04:28 <glazou> raises affiliation question...
16:04:30 <Zakim> -smfr
16:04:43 <Zakim> +smfr
16:04:54 <bradk> Google dogfood?
16:05:33 <glazou> happens all the time
16:06:29 <TabAtkins> Scribenick: TabAtkins
16:06:48 <Zakim> +David_Baron
16:07:03 <TabAtkins> glazou: If you're attending the ftf and haven't notified anyone at apple, please do so.
16:07:18 <TabAtkins> glazou: Bert is going to organize a social event on tuesday night, please rsvp
16:07:29 <TabAtkins> glazou: Most of us will be in town on Sunday, can we meet for dinner?
16:07:49 <TabAtkins> glazou: Meet at Cupertino Inn at 7pm and find a place.
16:08:11 <smfr> dbaron: rsvp on the day should be fine
16:08:15 <ChrisL> I land at 21:45 so thats too late for diner by the time I get from sfo to cupertino
16:08:19 <TabAtkins> howcome: Any additional registration requirements beyond the attendance form?
16:08:37 <TabAtkins> glazou: No, if you said you would attend Tues night on the form, it's fine.
16:08:50 <ChrisL> daniel, the phone I am using is not generating tone dials so i can't get zakim to recognise the conference code
16:09:01 <dbaron> I'm also arriving in town too late to meet for dinner
16:09:03 <TabAtkins> glazou: extra agenda items?
16:09:19 <TabAtkins> glazou: Request from jdaggett to defer the font-size-adjust issue to the ftf.
16:09:28 <TabAtkins> glazou: Elika, any problem?
16:09:56 <TabAtkins> fantasai: It was dbaron's idea, actually.
16:10:08 <TabAtkins> glazou: Test suite!
16:10:13 <plinss> zakim, [microsoft] has fantasai
16:10:13 <Zakim> sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named '[microsoft]'
16:10:19 <TabAtkins> glazou: Peter and I have an update on the i18n tests from Ishida.
16:10:38 <TabAtkins> glazou: He showed me evidence that he began proposing his tests a year ago, so we can acccept his tests.
16:10:52 <TabAtkins> glazou: They were ready months ago; this wasn't someething that just popped up
16:11:13 <TabAtkins> arronei: I looked over the tests.  They need some small tweaks, but otherwise should be able to be put right in.
16:11:26 <sylvaing> Registration form at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-wg-cupertino-2010/ includes tuesday social RSVP
16:11:40 <TabAtkins> glazou: Anything else on the test suite?
16:11:46 <Zakim> + +1.919.374.aadd
16:11:55 <TabAtkins> arronei: Just need more people to review the suite.
16:12:01 <ChrisL> zakim, aadd is me
16:12:01 <Zakim> +ChrisL; got it
16:12:14 <TabAtkins> fantasai: If you review and it's good, please let me know (obviously, tell us if it's bad).
16:12:19 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Location of the test cases?
16:12:32 <TabAtkins> fantasai: /Style/CSS/Test, you can get to it from there
16:13:07 <TabAtkins> glazou: We have 2 relatively big items on the agenda, and several minor ones.  Let's start with the minors and maybe leave majors for ftf.
16:13:11 <TabAtkins> everyone: yes
16:13:22 <TabAtkins> glazou: First is from sylvain, about escaping commas in unquoted urls.
16:13:47 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Essentially, part of the prose appears to be out of sync with tokenization rules.
16:14:11 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: In URIs you need to escape commas, but that's not true, such as with data: uris with a comma before the base64 bit.
16:14:25 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: We ran into this when we tried to implement the mandatory escaping, so the prose is out of place.
16:14:48 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: In a data URI, the comma is in a known position.  You can parse it because you know exactly where that should be.
16:15:00 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Does this appear in other uri schemes or just data?
16:15:08 <TabAtkins> dbaron: Plenty of http uris with commas in the file names
16:15:14 <TabAtkins> dbaron: CSS parsers uniformly accept them.
16:15:35 <TabAtkins> dbaron: Don't know offhand of examples of using it in the CSS; I see it often in page urls.
16:15:50 <dbaron> See e.g., the "United News and Deals" URLs on http://www.united.com/
16:16:02 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: The CSS parser isn't tripping up on that, right?  So the grammar/parser is fine, but the prose is wrong?
16:16:16 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Yeah, we need to fix the prose.
16:16:30 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: So what exactly needs to be removed?
16:16:46 <TabAtkins> dbaron: The prose lists what needs to be escaped, we just need to remove the commas.  Everything else the prose lists is fine.
16:16:50 <TabAtkins> glazou: Objections?
16:16:53 <TabAtkins> everyone: no.
16:17:03 <ChrisL> just checking that the othetrs listed were all correct
16:17:12 <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Change prose of URI production to match the grammar, dropping the requirement to escape commas.
16:17:16 <glazou> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-vm/vm-interfaces.src.html
16:17:32 <TabAtkins> glazou: Request to review the View Modes spec.
16:17:53 <TabAtkins> glazou: Saying we need an event-based part of the spec, not just basing it on media queries.
16:18:00 <TabAtkins> glazou: So let's send comments in 2 weeks time.
16:18:16 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Mar/0190.html
16:18:17 <TabAtkins> glazou: Next is clarification.  nth-child and comments inside the argument.
16:18:35 <TabAtkins> glazou: We never thought originally of comments inside the argument.
16:18:43 <TabAtkins> glazou: Tokenization rules allow comments everywhere.
16:18:56 <TabAtkins> glazou: From a "respect to the spec", we should allow comments everywhere.
16:19:19 <TabAtkins> glazou: But also the an+b parsing is already very complex, and I wonder if it is worthwhile to allow another level of complexity.
16:19:24 <TabAtkins> glazou: I don't care either way.
16:19:49 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: It currently says comments everywhere between tokens; I'd be unhappy if it said "most comments between most tokens".
16:20:00 <Zakim> +Danny
16:20:02 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: We'd have to make it a single atomic token, if we want to be consistent.
16:20:14 <Bert> zakim, danny is me
16:20:14 <Zakim> +Bert; got it
16:20:24 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: And then we just have to detail the production of an+b in prose?
16:20:29 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Sounds like it.
16:20:42 <TabAtkins> howcome: Comment from an opera dev, he thinks the definition of the n term is wrong.
16:21:03 <TabAtkins> howcome: He thinks that using the terms odd and even is mixing up the grammar and lexer spec.
16:21:24 <TabAtkins> fantasai: Two grammers in Selectors, one is general grammar you plug into selectors.  The second is a more specific grammar for the an+b notation.
16:21:47 <TabAtkins> fantasai: That one is not there to be a grammar so much, that you would plug into your parser, but rather to make sure the syntax is unambiguous.
16:22:07 <howcome> First of all, an integer followed by an {N} will be tokenized as a  
16:22:07 <howcome> DIMENSION. The grammar above will match: "2/*comment*/n" but not "2n".
16:22:31 <TabAtkins> glazou: Mozilla doesn't implement this grammar, frex, it tokenizes normally according to CSS.
16:22:57 <TabAtkins> dbaron: Question for us is, in terms of that grammar does the an part of an+b have to tokenize as DIMENSION, or can it tokenize as NUMBER plus IDENT.
16:23:11 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think it should tokenize as dimension.
16:23:19 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: What's the technical difference?
16:23:46 <TabAtkins> glazou: In DIMENSION you can't have a comment, NUMBER plus IDENT does.
16:24:07 <TabAtkins> fantasai: If you accept NUMBER plus IDENT you'd accept "2 n", which is wrong.
16:24:46 <TabAtkins> dbaron: No, because we wouldn't look for whitespace.
16:25:07 <TabAtkins> howcome: I just pasted in my developer's feedback; he says that the grammar will match 2/*comment*/n, but *not* 2n.
16:25:36 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I think DIMENSION would be better, since if I put a comment in there, I expect whitespace to be there too.
16:25:44 <TabAtkins> fantasai: He missed the DIMENSION token.
16:25:58 <TabAtkins> glazou: He looked just at the special subgrammar, not as the normal CSS tokenization.
16:26:47 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think we should clarify that it should parse as a dimension.
16:26:55 <TabAtkins> fantasai: And we should clarify where comments are allowed.
16:27:19 <TabAtkins> fantasai: So based on the real grammar, we should be allowing comments between n the sign, and between sign and b.
16:27:25 <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think that's not really the way to fix it.
16:27:44 <TabAtkins> dbaron: I don't think we want a grammar for an+b to describe where the comments can go.
16:28:10 <TabAtkins> dbaron: We should describe that the an+b does *not* describe a grammar itself, that you should accept normal CSS tokens.
16:28:27 <TabAtkins> dbaron: And that the an+b grammar is just a restriction.
16:29:27 <TabAtkins> glazou: So we specify that the first token has to start with n or - or be a dimension.
16:29:32 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: So comments are not allowed?
16:29:40 <TabAtkins> glazou: Not between the a and the n.
16:29:54 <TabAtkins> fantasai: comments wherever there is a space token allowed.
16:30:14 <TabAtkins> fantasai: We can add a comment that we expect the an part to tokenize as a dimension or an identifier.
16:30:27 <dbaron> Also, the whole thing can tokenize as a dimension/identifier, e.g., n-1 is an identifier and 2n-1 is a dimension.
16:30:36 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Extra problem we ran into.  We keep implementing something, and then someone says, "Oh, that's the wrong grammar!".
16:30:51 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Too much arcane knowledge about which grammar overrides what.  This is a problem.
16:31:14 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Seems easy for implementors to get this wrong, for them to implement a subgrammar that should only be informative, etc.
16:31:33 <TabAtkins> howcome: Agree that it should be clearly labled to supplement the prose.
16:31:42 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Yeah, it's not a *huge* problem, but it happens regularly.
16:32:02 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Now that we have modules, it's more broken apart, and we need to be more clear about it.
16:32:28 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: That should be easily dealt with by putting in an informative sentence that says, "Aspects of this grammar are modified by the grammar/prose over at XXX."
16:32:51 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: We should know all the grammar details while writing something.
16:33:24 <TabAtkins> ACTION glazou: Revise prose in an+b section of nth-child to specify comments and productions.
16:33:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Revise prose in an+b section of nth-child to specify comments and productions. [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-03-31].
16:33:44 <TabAtkins> glazou: item 7 jdaggett asked to defer
16:34:00 <TabAtkins> glazou: item 8 - someone again asking for comments with a //
16:34:09 <TabAtkins> glazou: It's easier for authors and so on.
16:35:03 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I used // comments a lot when I was first starting, and didn't notice errors since the invalid rule that it started got swallowed by } and such.
16:35:29 <TabAtkins> glazou: Yeah, and it trips me up a lot when I switch between javascript and css
16:35:52 <TabAtkins> howcome: This should have been there from the beginning, but don't have as much luxury to change it now.
16:36:12 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: It already says comments are allowed anywhere, right?  Could we just put this in?
16:36:37 <TabAtkins> dbaron: It does break the forward-compatible grammar, in that old implementations will screw things up.
16:36:49 <dbaron> ... if they see a //-commented-out {
16:37:05 <TabAtkins> plinss: It comes up once a year, and we always say no.
16:37:19 <TabAtkins> glazou: That's not very satisfying.
16:37:36 <TabAtkins> fantasai: We have comments, just not in the particular syntax that people want.  I agree with Peter that it's probably too late now.
16:37:45 <TabAtkins> fantasai: At this point it would likely cause too many problems to add.
16:37:49 <TabAtkins> glazou: Okay, issue closed.
16:38:09 <TabAtkins> glazou: Two items left, % height calculations and float bidi issues.
16:38:38 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0080.html
16:38:43 <TabAtkins> dbaron: % height is helped by a whiteboard.
16:38:46 <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0088.html
16:38:47 <TabAtkins> glazou: Defer to ftf, then.
16:38:56 <TabAtkins> glazou: Float bidi issues, then.
16:40:54 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: As far as I can tell, the first link is asking whether, when we float:start or end, the scrolling/overflow behavior of the containing box should change.
16:42:17 <TabAtkins> dbaron: Frex, if you're in ltr and you ahve an auto left margin, it right-aligns the block if it's narrower than the container, but left-aligns if it's wider so you don't have content that's unscrollable.
16:42:42 <dbaron> ... and the question, I think, is whether we want to do the same thing for floats.
16:42:43 <TabAtkins> dbaron: So the question is if we want to do the same thing for floats.
16:43:11 <TabAtkins> dbaron: Last time we tested, I think some impls did this.
16:43:37 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think start and end should compute to a used value of left or right, and then should just act normally.
16:43:52 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I agree.  That means there's no issue?
16:44:06 <TabAtkins> glazou: So, Elika, there's nothing to do?
16:44:20 <TabAtkins> fantasai: dbaron's talking about a different issue, not actually related to start and end.
16:45:26 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Yeah, the first email is indeed talking about something independent of float:start/end.
16:45:35 <TabAtkins> glazou: Do we need to bring this up during ftf?
16:45:52 <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think someone needs to write some tests and figure out what implementations do.  I may have done it in the past.
16:46:03 <TabAtkins> glazou: Let's defer this to a later time, then.
16:46:44 <TabAtkins> glazou: Next email, we have left/right values for a lot of properties, but not start/end.
16:47:08 <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think there's been discussion about padding/border before, and me and Elika separately did proposals for that.
16:47:21 <TabAtkins> dbaron: outline isn't relevant, because we don't have outline:left/right.
16:47:37 <TabAtkins> fantasai: We talked about background-position in a ftf.
16:47:55 <TabAtkins> fantasai: We decided to deal with that at a higher level, because it may also touch on flipping the image and such.
16:48:01 <dbaron> there was also a more recent thread on background-position
16:48:45 <TabAtkins> glazou: David, how does mozilla implement margin/paddings in an rtl context?
16:48:48 <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0269.html
16:49:03 <TabAtkins> dbaron: We implement -moz-margin-start, etc.
16:49:59 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: [something about changing what left/right/top/bottom refers to when changing writing direction]
16:50:47 <TabAtkins> glazou: When a web author has to reverse the content of a webpage for rtl, he has to tweak the stylesheet.
16:50:56 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think that having margin-start, etc would be great.
16:51:44 <TabAtkins> fantasai: There was was a proposal from Andrew to have :ltr and :rtl selectors that would select based on the direction information in the markup language (@dir in HTML).
16:52:07 <TabAtkins> glazou: That's equivalent to writing two stylesheets, though.
16:52:35 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think we've got two proposals for *-start, etc, so we should discuss those.  There are complex cascading issues.
16:52:42 <TabAtkins> howcome: It's a can of worms.  We don't want to go there.
16:52:51 <TabAtkins> glazou: It's because you're not writing webpages in Arabic.
16:53:24 <TabAtkins> howcome: Left is left and right is right in lebanon.
16:53:50 <TabAtkins> howcome: You can use, say, the lang selector today to style differently.
16:54:17 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Not sufficient anyway.  We have ltr languages, and then bidi languages, which are rtl some of the time and ltr others.  You can't just reverse things unilaterally.
16:54:26 <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Mar/0279.html
16:54:32 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: I'd like to bring up murakami-san's email.
16:54:47 <ChrisL> others - meaning numerals, which are written ltr
16:54:55 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Essentially, he noticed that some browsers like IE change top/bottom/left/right based on writing mode.
16:55:11 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: So if you're in japanese and set padding-top, it pushes your content to the left.
16:55:26 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: He proposed a way to detect this.  It's hacky, but I understand what he's trying to solve.
16:55:40 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: He brought up an important issue - ebooks and epub, which is xhtml and css2.
16:56:02 <TabAtkins> sylvaing: People will address this themselves and come up with their own properties if we don't solve this ourselves.
16:56:33 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think that's a great point.  I think we should definitely address this.
16:56:52 <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think it was clear that the physical directions should be absolute - margin-top should always be the top margin.
16:57:05 <TabAtkins> fantasai: If we need something to respond to the writing mode, it should be an appropriately-named property.
16:57:07 <TabAtkins> everyone: yes
16:57:38 <TabAtkins> glazou: All for today, have a safe trip, we'll meet at apple at 9am.
16:57:45 <Zakim> -howcome
16:58:33 <Zakim> -ChrisL
16:58:34 <Zakim> -sylvaing
16:58:36 <Zakim> -smfr
16:58:36 <Zakim> -dethbakin
16:58:37 <Zakim> -TabAtkins
16:58:37 <Zakim> -arronei
16:58:39 <Zakim> -David_Baron
16:58:39 <Zakim> -glazou
16:58:40 <Zakim> -plinss
16:58:42 <Zakim> -Bert
16:58:48 <Zakim> -bradk
16:58:49 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
16:58:51 <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, sylvaing, +47.21.65.aaaa, glazou, howcome, +1.650.253.aabb, TabAtkins, arronei, +1.617.650.aacc, bradk, dethbakin, smfr, David_Baron, +1.919.374.aadd,
16:58:53 <Zakim> ... ChrisL, Bert
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20:18:01 <TabAtkins> I has a linux boxen with CVS installed.  Reminder (or, preferably, pointer) on how to get into the CSS repo?
20:19:28 <anne> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/
20:19:59 <anne> no idea about the Member-only one by the way, but we should be moving away from that anyway
20:20:18 <anne> well, I probably have some clue if I put in a bit of effort...
20:20:50 <TabAtkins> Hmm, that's a readonly base, anne.
20:21:18 <anne> oh, do you have .ssh set up?
20:21:27 <TabAtkins> Yes.
20:21:39 <anne> write, if you just use your username where it says anonymous it should work
20:21:42 <anne> s/write/right/
20:21:49 <anne> (what a typo...)
20:21:50 <TabAtkins> Well, theoretically.  I set it up in the past, on a different machine.
20:22:08 <anne> if you copy the keys over to your home/username/.ssh/ folder it should be fine
20:28:19 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #css
20:31:43 <Bert> Hi Tab, can I help?
20:32:20 <TabAtkins> Sure, Bert.  Got a linux box, CVS is installed, my ssh keys I exchanged with you a while back are now in ~/.ssh
20:33:05 <TabAtkins> Now where do I actually point the command to get at the drafts?
20:34:00 <Bert> You have a directory where you checked things out previously? Or not yet?
20:34:07 <TabAtkins> Not yet.
20:35:38 <Bert> You should first go to a place where you want the csswg directory to appear.
20:35:46 <TabAtkins> Yah, got it.
20:37:25 <Bert> Then "cvs -d tatkinsj@dev.w3.org:/sources/public get csswg/css3-color" should get you the Color draft (as an example)
20:37:56 <Bert> The -d option should only be necessary the first time.
20:38:17 <Bert> It will be stored inside a newly creatd csswg/CVS directory
20:38:33 <TabAtkins> Do I need to set any variables to get it to recognize my key?
20:38:39 <TabAtkins> (
20:38:53 <TabAtkins> (Since that command died with a "Permission denied (public key)" error.)
20:39:12 <Bert> You may need "export CVS_RSH=ssh" indeed.
20:39:29 <Bert> And that should probably be put in your .bashrc or some such.
20:40:01 <Bert> If that doesn't work, we should first check if SSH works without CVS...
20:40:32 <Bert> The way to test is to do: ssh -v tatkinsj@dev.w3.org
20:40:50 <Bert> and carefully look for any error messages in the (verbose) output.
20:41:21 <TabAtkins> Nope, no good.  Same failure message.
20:42:19 <TabAtkins> Possibly I need to identify the file better?  My private/public keys are called sshkey and sshkey.pub
20:42:39 <Bert> They are normally called .ssh/id_dsa and .ssh/id_dsa.pub
20:42:45 <Bert> (or rsa instead of dsa)
20:43:53 <TabAtkins> Ah, that let ssh work.
20:44:18 <TabAtkins> Cool, checkout succeeded.
20:45:06 <TabAtkins> Finally, where's your src formatter again?
20:45:35 <Bert> There are three variants: http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css3-src/bin/postprocess
20:46:29 <TabAtkins> danke, bert.
20:46:31 <Bert> There should be some Makefiles in various directories under csswg with hints how to use that from the command line with curl, if you don't want to use a Web browser.
20:48:25 <TabAtkins> Got it.
20:48:30 <TabAtkins> This will work for now.
20:49:04 <Bert> Great! Which module are you working on?
20:49:11 <TabAtkins> images
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22:25:54 <TabAtkins> Bert, fantasai: What's the best thing to do for background-repeat:extend?  Pop it into Images?
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23:08:41 <TabAtkins> What rows of a propdef are required, and which can be omitted, if I'm just adding a new value to an existing property?