14:59:06 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:59:06 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/18-html-a11y-irc
14:59:14 zakim, this will be html-a11y
14:59:15 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:00:29 zakim, this will wai-pf
15:00:29 I don't understand 'this will wai-pf', janina
15:00:37 zakim, this will be wai-pf
15:00:37 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:01:18 zakim, this will be html-a11y
15:01:18 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
15:01:49 Ben has joined #html-a11y
15:02:05 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
15:02:05 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started
15:02:13 + +0154558aabb
15:02:17 zakim, call janina
15:02:17 ok, janina; the call is being made
15:02:18 +Janina
15:02:37 +??P6
15:02:49 zakim, ??P6 is Ben_Caldwell
15:02:49 +Ben_Caldwell; got it
15:03:03 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:03 On the phone I see +1.650.862.aaaa, [Microsoft], Gregory_Rosmaita, +0154558aabb, Janina, Ben_Caldwell
15:03:38 +Rich
15:04:05 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:04:20 Sean has joined #html-a11y
15:04:50 Joshue has joined #html-a11y
15:05:00 zakim, +1.650.862 is John_Foliot
15:05:00 +John_Foliot; got it
15:05:11 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:11 On the phone I see John_Foliot, [Microsoft], Gregory_Rosmaita, +0154558aabb, Janina, Ben_Caldwell, Rich
15:05:25 zakim, microsoft is kford
15:05:25 +kford; got it
15:05:32 zakim, code?
15:05:32 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Joshue
15:05:47 +??P4
15:05:54 zakim, ??P4 is Joshue
15:05:54 +Joshue; got it
15:06:51 LeifHS has joined #html-a11y
15:07:26 Hi. I will try to present at 16:30. Leif
15:07:33 zakim, aaaa is Sean_Hayes
15:07:33 sorry, janina, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
15:07:43 zakim, +015455 is Sean_Hayes
15:07:43 +Sean_Hayes; got it
15:07:59 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:59 On the phone I see John_Foliot, kford, Gregory_Rosmaita, Sean_Hayes, Janina, Ben_Caldwell, Rich, Joshue
15:08:16 hi y'all
15:08:25 scribe: Joshue
15:08:42 zakim, mute me
15:08:42 Joshue should now be muted
15:09:11 JS: Lets get the agenda going
15:09:16 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:09:16 Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:09:16 agenda: this
15:09:16 agenda+ Actions Review
15:09:16 agenda+ Canvas Subteam Change Proposals
15:09:17 agenda+ Media Subteam Update; Requirements; API Proposal
15:09:19 agenda+ Face to Face Planning http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/ftf_2010-04.html
15:09:21 agenda+ Resolved & Rejected Bugs Review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0168.html
15:09:24 agenda+ New Business
15:09:26 agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
15:09:28 agenda+ be done
15:09:30
15:10:08 JS: I suggests skipping ACTION review
15:10:09 Zakim, call Mike
15:10:09 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:10:11 +Mike
15:10:26 JS: We are getting good feedback from the wider group re:canvas etc
15:10:46 RS: We made some progress re:boolean att in HTML 5
15:11:01 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibilitynonav
15:11:57 RS: This is a proposal we have, there is good feedback. We have modified to nonav as a boolean @. Its not written as a conformance statement, but advice for authors. Well recieved by wider HTML group.
15:12:15 RS: We still are working on Chaals proposal and some API mods to 2D.
15:12:37 JS: So this is a perfecting amendment to what we agreed last week? Unless anyone disagrees?
15:12:44 oedipus has joined #html-a11y
15:12:47 JS: Is it largely editorial.
15:13:35 JS: The next step is the 2D focus change proposal
15:13:49 RS: There are diffs in the way Apple implement things vs Windows
15:14:29 RS: For example, the blink rate, we have to be careful about triggering seizures etc, am busy with SXSW and CSUN etc
15:14:42 JS: Yes, there is a lot of traffic about his, excellent.
15:14:56 zakim, who is here?
15:14:56 On the phone I see John_Foliot, kford, Gregory_Rosmaita, Sean_Hayes, Janina, Ben_Caldwell, Rich, Joshue (muted), Mike
15:14:59 On IRC I see oedipus, LeifHS, Joshue, Sean, richardschwerdtfe, Ben, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, kford, JF, MichaelC, MikeSmith, trackbot
15:15:11 RS: I have a question for the HTML WG chairs, how do we position Issue 72?
15:15:21 MS: No one on call at the mo.
15:15:30 JS: I said last week that this is a partial resolution.
15:15:49 JS: There will be three parts, Focus, 2D and Chaals proposal
15:16:08 JS: The subteam thought the first two would be acceptable and then enhanced by Chaals
15:16:09 agree with JS' synopsis
15:16:14 RS: I would agree with that
15:16:34 JS: This is a strong proposal in toto
15:16:43 JS: Anything else?
15:16:47 GJR: chaals' suggestion involves changing HTML5 definition of imagemap in order to work properly -- the prognosis for that is not very good
15:16:59 RS: Its a lot of work for an @!
15:17:08 TOPIC: Media Sub Team
15:17:12 s/@!/attribute!
15:17:15 JS: We spoke on this last week
15:17:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/18-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:18:34 JS: We talked about media in the PF call yest, also in WAI CG call. We are a little blocked, we discussed what may be resolutions and the result was..lets take another look at the wiki requirements doc. We assigned some action items etc, put out a call for changes and edits etc and or ommissions.
15:18:46 JS: That should take a couple of weeks, may not resolve but will help.
15:19:07 Is this time stamps or media codecs?
15:19:20 JS:We didn't talk codecs
15:19:36 JS: We tried to understand everyones positons.
15:19:48 Zakim, mute Mike
15:19:48 Mike should now be muted
15:19:53 JS: If we do too little, it could be a prob
15:20:16 JS: We need the right balance, the media group, PF , HTML so we have some extra people looking.
15:20:49 JS: On the API there was a chance to move this a little, I wasn't fully up to speed and some of us may not be, but we have some actions to remedy this.
15:21:07 GJR has action item to reveiw API and solicit review from DAISY
15:21:21 JS: We are not delaying by much to ask for people to look at this for us, based on past experience it is useful.
15:21:34 JS: Is there more to say JF?
15:22:03 JF: Not that I am aware of, the biggest issue seems to be time stamp. I am a little out of the loop but I don't see a lot of action.
15:22:20 JF: Dick is working on a proposal, don't know where to go from here.
15:22:29 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0379.html
15:22:33 JF: Sylvias idea also needs to be worked on.
15:22:39 Zakim, unmute me
15:22:39 sorry, MikeSmith, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:22:43 Zakim, unmute Mike
15:22:43 Mike should no longer be muted
15:22:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/18-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:22:44 JS: As Mike pointed out the big issue may be styling.
15:23:07 JS: There are some disagreements.
15:23:51 JF: There is not structure to SRT time etc, we need something extensible. So the question is what can we do to provide one?
15:23:53 JS: Right
15:24:08 JF: We need something beside SRT but we don't know what it is.
15:24:09 regrets: Laura_Carlson,Denis Boudreau,Dick_Bulterman,Eric_Carlson,Sylvia_Pfieffer,Geoff_Freed
15:24:25 GJR still maintains that SRT is a non-starter
15:24:43 JS: Also worried that we can save in extra features, it is a reasonable idea but may be an issue with standards developement. If experience is correct.
15:24:48 JF: Yes.
15:25:10 JF: DFXP has some appeal, as with profiles we can evolve greater support.
15:25:26 GJR whatever is used needs to meet a11y requirements NOW -- SRT would need an add-on / work to integrate what one gets with SMILText for free
15:25:29 JF: There are issues, this would be a good start that we can build upon.
15:25:33 a couple points: the styling mechanism in DFXP -- even if it is profiled -- is not compatible with browsers; and it is imaginable that SRT could be extended to include styling
15:25:46 q+ to say SRT extension is a non-starter
15:25:47 JF: So the standard can be the W3C DFXP format.
15:25:48 q+ to comment
15:25:51 ack me
15:25:51 oedipus, you wanted to say SRT extension is a non-starter
15:25:56 JS: Sounds like a possibilty, any comments?
15:26:23 GJR: I am against SRT (strongly)..if implemented there is no a11y capabilities like with SMIL
15:26:54 MS: Yes, but if everyone takes a strong position then we won't reach agreement.
15:26:58 ack MikeSmith
15:26:58 MikeSmith, you wanted to comment
15:27:21 MS: So it is not prudent to say that SRT is a non-runner, we won't reach agreement.
15:27:39 JF: We have to provide an extensible mechanism from the get go.
15:28:07 MS: If we agree to start with a profile DFXP, we will not get that implemented.
15:28:35 MS: The browser maker say that is not the ideal soltuion for them
15:28:37 MikeSmith, if SRT is used it has to meet the a11y requirments identified by the TF BEFORE it is implemented in HTML5 -- otherwise, we are codifying a less-than-accessible alternative with only the promise of future work on SRT to support a11y features/requirements
15:29:40 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/media-text-format/results
15:29:43 JF: We can't just have one, this is a standard. We are writing a standard.
15:30:05 MS:
15:30:28 GJR: John and I are saying of SRT gets into HTML, SRT itself must be tweaked to support a11y
15:30:29 @oedipus Chaals has said that it is *not* /necessary/ to change the HTML5 definition of image maps
15:30:39 GJR: SRT can great a black hole
15:30:48 s/great/create
15:30:56 JF: There is a lot of stuff in HTML that is not implemented.
15:31:23 JF: We need to ensure that an extensible format is locked in.
15:31:39 oedipus: I think he said so 2 weeks ago, in this meeting.
15:32:12 (I will call in if the @summary comes up ...)
15:32:14 SH: We have an implementation of DFXP, that is almost complete and would be happy to put it in the spec. So I don't see it as a non starter.
15:32:34 SH: The biggest thing is to get something in the spec, we are against shipping deadlines.
15:32:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/18-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
15:32:38 MS: I agree
15:32:53 MS: I asked JF, what styling mech does it use?
15:33:05 Adobe is already supporting DFXP today
15:33:23 SH: It is a self contained system. DFXP has an advantage as it doesn't rely on browser components.
15:34:05 JS: So Microsoft would be ok with a spec that relied on DFXP.
15:34:13 SH: Yes, speaking for the people at IE
15:34:30 SH: Our main issue is getting something soon into the spec.
15:34:34 JS: What about SMIL?
15:34:42 SH: We would prefer DFXP.
15:35:00 http://www.w3.org/TR/smil/
15:35:02 SH: SMIL is huge, I would have to look at it.
15:35:13 SH: DFXP is based a lot on SMIL, it is a subset.
15:35:22 JS: This is important info.
15:35:30 q?
15:35:36 JS: Any other comments?
15:35:46 JS: We will talk about his in B'mingham.
15:35:52 JS: Also on the phone
15:36:05 JS: We need a resolution that works on many levels.
15:36:05 @oedipus Here is what Chaals said 4th of march: "Chaals: HTML5 imagemap model actually can support Chaals"
15:36:17 JF: I will be on the phone
15:36:22 Zakim, mute Mike
15:36:22 Mike should now be muted
15:36:27 http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#dfxp-content-doctype
15:36:34 expensive because of Easter holiday, I think
15:36:51 SH: I will be back for the next media installment.
15:36:53 -Sean_Hayes
15:37:09 I'll be there
15:37:11 I will be there
15:37:15 GJR will remotely participate
15:37:26 JF remotely attending
15:37:27 JS: Who is coming?
15:37:51 JS: We need people who are participating here, we needs champs, we'll do that via mail.
15:38:03 JS: I don't know if he is.
15:38:14 zakim, unmute me
15:38:14 Joshue should no longer be muted
15:38:19 @oedipus But he added that "HTML5 spec doesn't yet work, HTML4 does". (Me: May be both could need some tuning ...)
15:38:48 zakim, mute me
15:38:48 Joshue should now be muted
15:39:14 JS: Lets look at Lauras latest bug report
15:39:19 TOPIC: Bug report
15:39:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0354.html
15:39:32 GJR: I got it.
15:40:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/Weekly_Resolved_and_Rejected_Bugs_Reports
15:40:36 JS: We need to look at Bug 7721: "Drag and Drop is not keyboard accessible" reported by Rich
15:40:37 Schwerdtfeger.
15:40:37 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7721
15:40:55 drag and drop: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7721
15:41:13 Zakim, unmute Mike
15:41:13 Mike should no longer be muted
15:41:14 JS: Can some tag these as we go.
15:41:19 JS: Mike
15:41:21 audio and video syncronization: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758
15:41:53 They seem to be all tagged btw
15:41:57 canvas needs a11y fallback: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7011
15:42:30 title where alt ommited: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7362
15:42:51 @summary not obsoltete: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7539
15:43:05 MS: Whats happening, along with some others, discussed this with Maciej. There are a lot of bugs that have changed to verify status and there is a note saying that a response is requested in two weeks. That is why this is on the list.
15:43:07 encourage use of @summary: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7633
15:43:12 JS: We should just re-open?
15:43:26 MS: Yes, just re-open them.
15:43:28 JS: Ok
15:43:53 JS: What Laura is saying the other bugs were re-opened by Maciej?
15:44:00 MS: I will check them one by one
15:44:07 closed bug progress element should be labelable with label: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8554 (Maciej)
15:45:41 MS: 7011 is the same, am re-opening
15:46:25 MS: 7632, 7539 same
15:47:27 8554
15:47:46 MS: What about 8554, we need someone to evaluate?
15:47:50 zakim, unmute me
15:47:50 Joshue should no longer be muted
15:48:02 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8554
15:48:36 MS: Is there much more that needs to be done with this?
15:48:44 MS: Seems to be resolved.
15:48:47 zakim, mute me
15:48:47 Joshue should now be muted
15:48:52 MS: Lets leave that one.
15:48:55 JS: Yup
15:49:19 JS: Now, re-opened bugs, lets jump to Cat 5 and see if we agree with tagging them.
15:49:43 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9241
15:49:58 JF: 9231 and 9243 are somewhat linked.
15:50:45 sorry John, I got the second bug wrong, please edit
15:51:28 Zakim/me can someone post the bug link again, my IRC lost the buffer
15:51:39 JS: In the W3C schema should come from WAI and WCAG, authoring tools etc. We are missing techniques for other things.
15:52:06 MS: These are a little different, as JF said.
15:52:12 MS: Lets take that to the list
15:52:23 s/9243/9233
15:52:49 JS: The consensus seems to be lets just link to the appropriate document as required.
15:52:57 JS: Would you do that?
15:53:00 JF: Yup
15:53:21 MS: There is a non trivial cost to taking up these issues with the TF.
15:53:38 MS: We need to agree criteria for our descisions to take on issues.
15:53:49 Is that not just based on importance?
15:54:01