15:52:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg
15:52:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/12-prov-xg-irc
15:52:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:52:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov-xg
15:52:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
15:52:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:52:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
15:52:13 <trackbot> Date: 12 March 2010
15:52:19 <Yolanda> i have not gotten koffee yet, that's why
15:52:26 <Yolanda> Meeting: prov-xg
15:52:38 <Yolanda> chair: Yolanda Gil
15:52:44 <Yolanda> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Mar/0007.html
15:52:52 <Yolanda> Scribe: Yolanda
15:53:03 <Yolanda> zakim, save agenda
15:53:03 <Zakim> the agenda has not been entered yet, Yolanda
15:53:09 <Yolanda> hah!
15:54:08 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has now started
15:54:15 <Zakim> +Yolanda
15:54:46 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:54:46 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:54:47 <Zakim> -Yolanda
15:54:47 <Zakim> +Yolanda
15:54:48 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:55:12 <Zakim> + +0329331aaaa
15:55:37 <Zakim> +??P5
15:56:20 <SamCoppens> zakim, +0329331aaaa is SamCoppens
15:56:20 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
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15:57:24 <Christine> Christine has joined #prov-xg
15:58:21 <Zakim> +??P4
15:58:28 <Irini> Irini has joined #prov-xg
15:58:36 <Zakim> + +1.619.223.aabb
15:58:55 <Zakim> + +30281039aacc
15:59:00 <Zakim> - +30281039aacc
15:59:26 <Zakim> + +30281039aadd
16:00:02 <Zakim> +Luc
16:00:15 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov-xg
16:03:47 <Zakim> +??P11
16:04:18 <Zakim> +??P12
16:04:22 <JimM> JimM has joined #prov-xg
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16:05:03 <Zakim> +jun
16:05:10 <jun> jun has joined #prov-xg
16:07:27 <Paolo> I can do it
16:07:32 <Paolo> (if I remember how...)
16:08:34 <jun> zakim, mute me
16:08:34 <Zakim> jun should now be muted
16:08:56 <Paolo> Yolanda: we are 1/2 way through the life of the incubator group
16:10:41 <Paolo> today's goals: this is a good time to checkpoint, so we want to make sure that we communicate to people outside this group
16:11:02 <Paolo> reaching out is a priority
16:11:35 <Paolo> 1) current organisation of the wiki
16:12:10 <Zakim> + +1.801.712.aaee
16:12:21 <Paolo> Yolanda has been updating the wiki in terms of content
16:12:33 <Paolo> ideas to make it more useful/usable?
16:12:44 <SamCoppens> +q
16:13:14 <Paolo> Sam Coppens: found what I was looking for
16:13:30 <Christine> Should the date be February 2010 rather than 2009 for the quote attributed to John Sheridan?
16:13:34 <Paolo> q+
16:14:34 <SamCoppens> q- SamCoppens
16:14:35 <Paolo> (Juliana Freire - Univ. Utah introduces herself)
16:14:58 <JimM> Is the Mendeley list referenced on the main wiki page?
16:15:31 <Yolanda> ack Paolo
16:15:35 <Paolo> @Jim seems not
16:16:31 <Zakim> + +1.518.608.aaff
16:18:12 <Paolo> Paolo: will see how to best advertise the current Mendely content and make it broadly available
16:18:16 <ivan> q+
16:18:27 <ivan> q-
16:18:46 <Paolo> Yolanda: our first deliverable is a synthesis of the requirements for provenance
16:19:10 <Paolo> centered around 3 "mega use cases" that Paul Groth is assembling
16:19:50 <Paolo> J Cheney is also putting together one of these cases
16:19:58 <Paolo> these will be discussed on the 19th
16:20:27 <Paolo> q+
16:20:28 <DeborahMcG> DeborahMcG has joined #prov-xg
16:21:01 <Paolo> 3) what should we be doing to prepare for the next deliverable as we go through the thematic discussions
16:21:41 <DeborahMcG> at some point in the telecon, i would like to announce that the updated abstract deadline for IPAW 2010 is tonight midnight hawaii time (and the updated full paper due date is next friday midnight)
16:23:10 <Yolanda> ack Paolo
16:24:58 <Paolo> Paolo: need to be careful not to lose information 
16:25:04 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov-xg
16:25:14 <jun> ack jun
16:25:21 <Christine> Re the subject matter calls - there seem to be from 2 main perspectives: (1) What work is going on in the provenance space (2) Areas that would find provenance useful (e.g. e Gov)
16:25:27 <Paolo> because the deliv is likely to be the main doc that external people will look at
16:25:33 <jun> q+
16:25:49 <Yolanda> ack jun
16:25:56 <Paolo> Yolanda: is the current mechanism ok?  calls/irc/ external guests as we have done so far
16:26:52 <Paolo> Jun: comment on the mega- use case:
16:27:17 <Paolo> see if specific application areas (eg e-government) can be generalised
16:27:22 <Paolo> as a matter of method
16:27:57 <Paolo> Jun: good immediacy to the invited talks, eg the opm session allowed for immediate feedback and clarifications
16:28:02 <Zakim> -??P4
16:28:15 <Paolo> esp for people who wouldn't spend a long time going through the spec
16:28:36 <Zakim> +??P4
16:28:54 <Christine> Hi. I missed that. Dropped off the call.
16:28:59 <Paolo> Yolanda: what topics for the coming weeks
16:29:29 <Luc> could someone talk about premis?
16:29:29 <Paolo> -multimedia, then Dublin Core, then PML, then provenance vocabulary already planned
16:29:37 <Paolo> q+
16:29:46 <Yolanda> ack Paolo
16:30:18 <jun> zakim, mute me
16:30:18 <Zakim> jun should now be muted
16:30:37 <Luc> q+
16:30:48 <SamCoppens> I can talk about PREMIS
16:31:27 <Christine> If we can it might also be useful to hear from other industries/areas that would benefit from developments in provence
16:31:41 <SamCoppens> +q
16:32:04 <Paolo> PREMIS will be add to the list
16:32:18 <Paolo> add -> added
16:33:01 <Paolo> Luc: +1 for provenir, possibly along with tjhe provenance vocabulary
16:33:13 <Paolo> Luc: when are we moving to the next phase of the incubator?
16:33:51 <Paolo> Yolanda: the goal of the presentations is to help us gain some perspective
16:34:07 <Paolo> prior to setting out to working on the final report
16:34:08 <SamCoppens> q- SamCoppens
16:34:37 <Paolo> Luc: need to understand what the SOA report will contain, to drive further presentations/topics
16:34:56 <jun> something like different task forces?
16:35:29 <Luc> could we build a matrix  technology x requirements?
16:35:42 <jun> ack jun
16:35:48 <Paolo> Yolanda: when discussing deliv. 1 on March 19th it is a good chance to checkpoint
16:36:55 <JimM> q+
16:36:55 <JimM> q+
16:36:59 <jun> zakim, mute me
16:36:59 <Zakim> jun should now be muted
16:37:14 <Paolo> Yolanda: we could group task forces around the three main groups of provenance dimensions we have identified
16:37:31 <Paolo> Luc: tech/requirements matrix
16:37:36 <Zakim> - +1.619.223.aabb
16:38:07 <Paolo> Yolanda: will try to organise the task forces on the 19th
16:39:07 <Paolo> Jim: hard to do a synthesis activity online, maybe the f2f is the right place?
16:40:04 <Paolo> we may be able to collapse many requirements using a limited set of technology solutions
16:40:25 <Paolo> but this process is best carried out in the F2F
16:40:37 <Paolo> next topic: should we have an agreed upon working definition of provenance?
16:40:44 <JimM> or patterns rather than technologies
16:41:02 <Christine> Agree we should have a definition
16:41:10 <Paolo> ok thanks Jim
16:41:12 <JimM> e.g. metadata (of a wide range of types) + causality covers many use cases
16:41:18 <Luc> this may take the rest of the incubator life!
16:41:43 <DeborahMcG> i agree.  i will send out what we are using in our slides later today when i am better connected
16:41:46 <Christine> It would be useful for people outside the provenance space
16:42:03 <Paolo> I usually explain by examples
16:42:24 <JimM> +1 for a working definition capturing the core
16:42:34 <Paolo> and those tend to be context-specific
16:43:02 <Paolo> q+
16:43:06 <JimM> -q
16:43:21 <Yolanda> ack Luc
16:43:39 <Yolanda> ack Paolo
16:45:24 <Zakim> + +1.518.763.aagg
16:45:30 <Paolo> Yolanda to create a wiki page where people can contribute their own defs of what provenance is or is not
16:45:33 <Paolo> Juliana +1
16:45:37 <Zakim> - +1.518.608.aaff
16:45:43 <Paolo> (was that Juliana?)
16:46:26 <Paolo> next topic: a set of slides to be used to present the group's activities
16:48:18 <Paolo> Yolanda: who can contribute?
16:48:49 <Paolo> Ivan: no immediate need to delvier a presentation to other W3C chairs, the times should be mature
16:50:44 <JimM> +1 for some shared slides about the WG - I'd be happy to comment/contribute
16:51:02 <Paolo> Ivan: presentation could be done to the W3C chairs beyond the SW activity, but when and only if the message is ready to be delivered
16:51:21 <ivan> s/W3C chairs/W3C team/
16:51:27 <Luc> +1
16:51:44 <Luc> we should also discuss the provenance of WHAT?
16:52:04 <Paolo> next topic: what may be the best use of our face to face meeting? 
16:52:27 <Paolo> Jim: use it to do a working meeting for synthesis activity
16:53:00 <Paolo> Yolanda: suggestions on how to run the meeting and use the time?
16:53:11 <JimM> a definition of provenance, a taxonomy of provenance systems, patterns for provenance...
16:55:26 <Paolo> Jim: patterns of provenance:  for example causality + certain tyeps of metadata is a pattern
16:55:35 <Paolo> that can capture many reqs at once
16:56:09 <Paolo> so patterns as a  concise way to describe large number of reqs
16:57:32 <ivan> q+
16:57:57 <Paolo> Yolanda: where do we sit on the layer cake?
16:58:16 <Zakim> -??P4
16:58:22 <Luc> I used to have a slide with provenance in the layer cake ;-)
16:58:24 <JimM> quick thought: it's a vertical like security...
16:58:33 <Zakim> +??P4
16:58:54 <Paolo> Ivan: the layer cake may be outdated wrt current technology -- so may not be worth doing the exercise
16:59:13 <Paolo> last topic: do we need to adjust our planned activities or change our process? 
16:59:36 <Paolo> (no comments)
16:59:57 <Paolo> +1 for skipping :-)
17:00:02 <jun> +1
17:00:03 <Christine> I will not be able to attend
17:00:05 <Irini> +1 for skipping
17:00:05 <ivan> I will be away anyway:-)
17:00:13 <Paolo> schools are closed...
17:00:21 <jun> ack jun
17:00:22 <Zakim> -??P5
17:00:25 <Zakim> - +1.801.712.aaee
17:00:27 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:00:28 <Zakim> -Yolanda
17:00:28 <Zakim> -??P11
17:00:29 <Zakim> - +30281039aadd
17:00:30 <Zakim> -??P4
17:00:31 <Zakim> - +1.518.763.aagg
17:00:32 <ivan> ivan has left #prov-xg
17:00:32 <Zakim> -??P12
17:00:34 <Zakim> -Luc
17:00:36 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
17:00:38 <Zakim> -jun
17:00:40 <Zakim> INC_PROVXG()11:00AM has ended
17:00:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Yolanda, Ivan, SamCoppens, +1.619.223.aabb, +30281039aacc, +30281039aadd, Luc, jun, +1.801.712.aaee, +1.518.608.aaff, +1.518.763.aagg
17:01:05 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has left #prov-xg
17:07:11 <Yolanda> rrsagent, set log public
17:07:21 <Yolanda> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:07:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/12-prov-xg-minutes.html Yolanda
17:16:08 <DeborahMcG> DeborahMcG has joined #prov-xg
17:16:34 <Yolanda> trackbot, etnd telcon
17:16:34 <trackbot> Sorry, Yolanda, I don't understand 'trackbot, etnd telcon'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
17:16:40 <Yolanda> trackbot, end telcon
17:16:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:16:40 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:16:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:16:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/12-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot
17:16:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:16:42 <RRSAgent> I see no action items