17:35:23 RRSAgent has joined #ua 17:35:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc 17:35:25 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:35:25 Zakim has joined #ua 17:35:27 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:35:27 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 25 minutes 17:35:28 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:35:28 Date: 11 March 2010 17:36:04 chair: Jim_Allan, Kelly_Ford 17:36:29 Regrets+ Mark_H 17:37:10 Agenda+ Daylight saving time 17:37:11 Agenda+ Publishing 17:37:13 Agenda+ F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France 17:37:14 Agenda+ Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ 17:37:44 Agenda+ review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5 17:37:46 Agenda+ discussion of 3.3.1 17:37:47 Agenda+ ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html 17:38:19 scribe: Sharper 17:55:38 sharper has joined #ua 17:55:52 trackbot, start meeting 17:55:53 chair: Ford_Kelly, Allan_James 17:55:54 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:55:56 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 17:55:56 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes 17:55:57 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 17:55:57 Date: 11 March 2010 17:56:37 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0110.html 17:56:49 scribe: Harper_Simon 17:56:50 ScribeNick: sharper 17:57:12 This weeks Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ 17:57:26 Please monitor your open Action Items: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open 17:57:38 Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open 17:57:48 Current editors draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100308/ 17:58:03 Current Techniques Document: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100308/ 17:58:44 Agenda+ Daylight saving time 17:58:47 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:58:50 Agenda+ Publishing 17:58:54 +[Microsoft] 17:59:03 Agenda+ F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France 17:59:08 Agenda+ Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ 17:59:11 Agenda+ review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5 17:59:27 Agenda+ discussion of 3.3.1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0105.html 17:59:44 Agenda+ ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html 18:00:08 present+ Harper_Simon 18:00:16 present+ Allan_James 18:00:23 kford has joined #ua 18:00:34 present+ Ford_Kelly 18:00:44 zakim, save agenda 18:00:50 ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-agenda.rdf 18:01:04 rrsagent, make logs public 18:01:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:01:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 18:01:15 +AllanJ 18:01:18 Greg has joined #ua 18:01:40 present+ Lowney_Greg 18:02:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:02:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 18:02:12 zakim, agenda 18:02:12 I don't understand 'agenda', sharper 18:02:21 zakim, agenda? 18:02:21 I see 14 items remaining on the agenda: 18:02:22 1. Daylight saving time [from AllanJ] 18:02:23 2. Publishing [from AllanJ] 18:02:24 3. F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France [from AllanJ] 18:02:25 4. Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ [from AllanJ] 18:02:27 5. review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5 [from AllanJ] 18:02:29 6. discussion of 3.3.1 [from AllanJ] 18:02:30 7. ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html [from AllanJ] 18:02:34 8. Daylight saving time [from sharper] 18:02:37 9. Publishing [from sharper] 18:02:38 10. F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France [from sharper] 18:02:40 11. Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ [from sharper] 18:02:43 12. review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5 [from sharper] 18:02:45 13. discussion of 3.3.1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0105.html [from sharper] 18:02:48 14. ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html [from sharper] 18:02:48 present+ AllanJ 18:02:56 +Greg 18:03:05 zakim, close item 1 18:03:05 agendum 1, Daylight saving time, closed 18:03:06 I see 13 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:07 2. Publishing [from AllanJ] 18:03:13 zakim, close item 2 18:03:13 agendum 2, Publishing, closed 18:03:14 I see 12 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:15 3. F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France [from AllanJ] 18:03:16 zakim, close item 3 18:03:16 agendum 3, F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France, closed 18:03:17 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:18 4. Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ [from AllanJ] 18:03:19 zakim, close item 4 18:03:19 agendum 4, Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/, closed 18:03:22 I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:24 5. review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5 [from AllanJ] 18:03:27 zakim, close item 5 18:03:27 agendum 5, review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5, closed 18:03:28 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:29 6. discussion of 3.3.1 [from AllanJ] 18:03:32 zakim, close item 6 18:03:33 agendum 6, discussion of 3.3.1, closed 18:03:34 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:36 7. ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html [from AllanJ] 18:03:42 zakim, close item 7 18:03:42 agendum 7, ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html, closed 18:03:44 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:03:45 8. Daylight saving time [from sharper] 18:03:49 zakim, agenda? 18:03:49 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda: 18:03:51 8. Daylight saving time [from sharper] 18:03:53 9. Publishing [from sharper] 18:03:54 10. F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France [from sharper] 18:03:56 11. Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ [from sharper] 18:03:58 12. review 3.1.3 and 3.1.5 [from sharper] 18:03:59 zakim, code? 18:03:59 13. discussion of 3.3.1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0105.html [from sharper] 18:04:02 14. ACTION-325 - 3.3.2 Location in Hierarchy http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0106.html [from sharper] 18:04:04 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper 18:04:44 +??P8 18:04:45 zakim, ??P8 is sharper 18:04:45 +sharper; got it 18:05:43 zakim, next item 18:05:43 agendum 8. "Daylight saving time" taken up [from sharper] 18:05:54 zakim, take up item 8 18:05:54 agendum 8. "Daylight saving time" taken up [from sharper] 18:06:39 regrets+ Hakkinen_Mark 18:06:48 regrets+ Richards_Jan 18:08:00 regrets- Richards_Jan 18:08:18 KimPatch has joined #ua 18:08:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:08:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 18:08:41 present+ Patch_Kim 18:08:56 +KimPatch 18:10:37 resolved: DST starts in the USA next week - Harmonisation with UK by 28th March 18:10:55 zakim, close item 8 18:10:55 agendum 8, Daylight saving time, closed 18:10:56 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:10:57 9. Publishing [from sharper] 18:11:02 zakim, next item 18:11:02 agendum 9. "Publishing" taken up [from sharper] 18:11:10 rrsagent, make logs public 18:11:29 jeanne has joined #ua 18:11:45 +Jeanne 18:11:58 RESOLVED: Congratulations to everyone - well done all and Jeanne especially for the editing job. 18:12:12 present+ Spellman_Jeanne 18:12:20 zakim, close item 9 18:12:20 agendum 9, Publishing, closed 18:12:21 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:12:22 10. F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France [from sharper] 18:12:28 zakim, next item 18:12:28 agendum 10. "F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France" taken up [from sharper] 18:12:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:12:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 18:14:36 JA: who can attend if we have one? 18:15:02 SH: I could make it possibly 18:15:08 GL: Possibly 18:15:29 JS: I'll probably be going 18:15:43 KF: Not sure yet 18:15:48 KP: not sure either 18:15:57 JA: Not sure either 18:16:11 JA: deadlines JS: next couple of weeks 18:16:24 JA: sounding like not... 18:17:00 JA: Lets come back to this in couple of weeks 18:18:56 RESOLUTION: Lets come back to this in couple of weeks (Deadline: April 16th to decide) 18:19:07 zakim, close item 10 18:19:07 agendum 10, F2F November 1-5 Lyon, France, closed 18:19:09 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:19:10 11. Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ [from sharper] 18:19:13 zakim, next item 18:19:13 agendum 11. "Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/" taken up [from sharper] 18:20:08 topic: charter 18:20:10 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/draft_uawg_charter_08mar10.html 18:20:13 agenda+ Discuss Draft Charter 18:20:23 zakim, take up item 15 18:20:23 agendum 15. "Discuss Draft Charter" taken up [from sharper] 18:20:41 Location: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/draft_uawg_charter_08mar10.html 18:21:08 General Discussion Regarding Charter 18:21:23 JS: Any objections to it 18:21:47 KF: Can it be amended? 18:22:27 JS: Can be changed in 3 years when we renew. 18:32:08 The mission of the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (UAWG), part of the WAI Technical Activity, is to produce guidelines for the development of accessible user agents (e.g., browsers, media players, etc.) and their interoperability with assistive technology. A user agent is software that retrieves and renders Web content, including text, graphics, sounds, video, images, etc. 18:32:57 RESOLUTION: Change first sentence as per JA above - then approved. 18:33:50 RESOLUTION: Approved regardless, change first sentence if possible. 18:34:04 zakim, close item 15 18:34:04 agendum 15, Discuss Draft Charter, closed 18:34:06 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:34:07 11. Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ [from sharper] 18:34:12 zakim, take up item 11 18:34:12 agendum 11. "Discuss survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/" taken up [from sharper] 18:38:04 topic: Proposal for 3.3.7 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq7 18:38:41 GL: Now 3.3.3 18:40:31 JA: Thoughts? 18:41:19 GL: Not really relationships 18:42:08 JA: Agrees? 18:42:43 No-one wishes to keep it in 3.3.3? 18:43:23 JA: 3.5.1? 18:43:29 All: Agrees 18:43:57 SH: Scratch that 3.5.1 - 5.1 18:44:14 RESOLUTION: 5.1 is agreed 18:45:09 ACTION: Jeanne to Move 3.3.3 to 5.1.x 18:45:09 Created ACTION-330 - Move 3.3.3 to 5.1.x [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 18:48:40 ACTION: Greg to rewrite the new 5.1.x 18:48:40 Created ACTION-331 - Rewrite the new 5.1.x [on Greg Lowney - due 2010-03-18]. 18:49:38 RESOLUTION: Actions created 18:49:39 topic: Proposal for 3.4.1 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq8 18:50:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:50:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 18:52:29 Adding seems fine to me. 18:53:08 JA: Gregs changes seem fine? Agree 18:54:24 ACTION: AllanJ on Make Greg's changes to 3.4.1 18:54:24 Sorry, couldn't find user - AllanJ 18:54:55 ACTION: member:AllanJ on Make member:Greg's changes to 3.4.1 18:54:55 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax 18:55:32 > ACTION: jAllan to Make Greg's changes to 3.4.1 18:55:48 ACTION: Jeanne to Make member:Greg's changes to 3.4.1 18:55:49 Created ACTION-332 - Make member:Greg's changes to 3.4.1 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 18:56:17 ACTION: jeanne to make Greg's changes to 3.4.1 from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq8 18:56:17 Created ACTION-333 - Make Greg's changes to 3.4.1 from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq8 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 18:56:37 sharper has joined #ua 18:56:38 Scribe: kford 18:56:45 zakim, close action-332 18:56:45 I don't understand 'close action-332', jeanne 18:56:48 Scribe: SHarper 18:56:57 close action-332 18:56:57 ACTION-332 Make member:Greg's changes to 3.4.1 closed 18:56:58 scribe: sharper 18:57:34 Discussion re PL's comments 18:58:11 GL: sounds like when it's not require the UA should still do repair - should be under 3.4.2 or some such based on the kind of rep[air 18:58:56 GL: could say supported by teh technology spec. 18:59:03 GL: wordsmithing on the fly 18:59:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 18:59:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 19:02:51 Could replace "required" by "supported", but don't want to make it so broad that UA is required to craft longdesc for every image. 19:06:05 add link to ERT to Resources for 3.4.1 19:07:06 GL: maybe too broad for Level A if required 19:07:35 ACTION: Jeanne to 'add link to ERT to Resources for 3.4.1' 19:07:35 Created ACTION-334 - 'add link to ERT to Resources for 3.4.1' [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 19:09:42 In discussion, we find that "repair text" is defined so it is only applicable where alt content is required (not just supported). 19:10:08 RESOLUTION: Lets wait for PL to elaborate 19:10:30 topic: Proposal for 3.4.2 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq9 19:13:01 /me I need to step out for one second 19:13:42 General discussion as to the meaning of 'enabled elements' 19:14:21 GL: Scoping the possible miss-interpretations 19:15:17 E.g. if there's a graphical button which is currently disabled, the user can still benefit from finding out info about it. That argues for not limiting this to enabled elements. 19:15:41 GL: proposes remove the 'for enabled elements' 19:16:35 /me apologies and I'm back 19:18:37 KP +1 19:18:54 KF +1 19:18:59 SH +1 19:19:02 JA: +1 19:19:04 JS +1 19:20:14 ACTION: Jeanne to 'remove the word enabled from 3.4.2' 19:20:14 Created ACTION-335 - 'remove the word enabled from 3.4.2' [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 19:21:04 JA: could be generalized for all users. right click on an image to get a context menu, then choose properties to get available information about the image without have to find the image in the source code. 19:22:11 add an example. A user wanting addional information on an image could right click on an image to get a context menu, then choose properties to get available information about the image without have to find the image in the source code. 19:23:55 action: Jeanne to update 3.4.2 with the results from the survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ from Kim, Greg and Jim. Jim has a complete example in the minutes. 19:23:55 Created ACTION-336 - Update 3.4.2 with the results from the survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ from Kim, Greg and Jim. Jim has a complete example in the minutes. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 19:24:05 RESOLUTION: Accept JA changes + KP edits + GL Minor Changes (all from survey) + remove enabled. 19:24:28 topic: Proposal for 3.5.1 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq10 19:24:48 KP: Minor wording changes 19:25:15 GL: As written it doesn't make clear that these four classes must be highlighted in distinct ways. If, for example, a user agent highlighted selected text, visited links, and unvisited links identically, it would comply with the letter but not the intent of the criterion. Perhaps instead of "highlight" it could read "visually distinguish" or "highlight...so that each is uniquely distinguished, within the limits of the output technology". The last caveat is need 19:25:15 for cases such as pure text browsers, which may only have one or two methods of highlighting text. Add this discussion to the Intent section as well. 19:25:35 GL: Also, 3 minor changes 19:27:47 KP: should look at the document for highlight and visually distinguish 19:30:22 "3.5.1 Highlighted items: The user has the option to highlight the following classes of information so that each is uniquely distinguished, within the limits of the output technology (Level A)" 19:32:07 We may be able to leave off the "within the limits of the output technology" if we agree, for example, that a purely text browser can use characters like *, **, and _ to highlight ranges of text. 19:32:52 proposed: 3.5.1 Highlighted items: The user has the option to highlight the following classes of information so that each is uniquely distinguished. 19:33:11 JA: Objections? 19:33:15 All: None. 19:34:07 action: Jeanne to update document with above discussion of 3.5.1 and the editorial items from the Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq10 19:34:08 Created ACTION-337 - Update document with above discussion of 3.5.1 and the editorial items from the Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq10 [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-03-18]. 19:36:19 -KimPatch 19:36:21 -sharper 19:36:23 -Greg 19:36:28 RESOLUTION: return to 3.5.2 + other items from the survey. 19:36:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 19:36:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 19:37:29 zakim, please part 19:37:29 leaving. As of this point the attendees were [Microsoft], AllanJ, Greg, sharper, KimPatch, Jeanne 19:37:29 Zakim has left #ua 19:37:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 19:37:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-minutes.html sharper 19:39:19 rrsagent, please part 19:39:19 I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-actions.rdf : 19:39:19 ACTION: Jeanne to Move 3.3.3 to 5.1.x [1] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T18-45-09 19:39:19 ACTION: Greg to rewrite the new 5.1.x [2] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T18-48-40 19:39:19 ACTION: AllanJ on Make Greg's changes to 3.4.1 [3] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T18-54-24 19:39:19 ACTION: member:AllanJ on Make member:Greg's changes to 3.4.1 [4] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T18-54-55 19:39:19 ACTION: Jeanne to Make member:Greg's changes to 3.4.1 [5] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T18-55-48 19:39:19 ACTION: jeanne to make Greg's changes to 3.4.1 from http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq8 [6] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T18-56-17 19:39:19 ACTION: Jeanne to 'add link to ERT to Resources for 3.4.1' [7] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T19-07-35 19:39:19 ACTION: Jeanne to 'remove the word enabled from 3.4.2' [8] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T19-20-14 19:39:19 ACTION: Jeanne to update 3.4.2 with the results from the survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/ from Kim, Greg and Jim. Jim has a complete example in the minutes. [9] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T19-23-55 19:39:19 ACTION: Jeanne to update document with above discussion of 3.5.1 and the editorial items from the Survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100302/results#xq10 [10] 19:39:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-ua-irc#T19-34-07 19:39:28 AllanJ has left #ua