15:58:53 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-irc
15:58:55 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:55 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:57 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:57 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:58 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:58 Date: 11 March 2010
15:59:10 zakim, call janina
15:59:10 ok, janina; the call is being made
15:59:12 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
15:59:13 +Janina
15:59:38 +[IPcaller]
15:59:54 zakim, IPcaller is me
15:59:54 +Stevef; got it
15:59:57 +Michael_Cooper
15:59:59 eric_carlson has joined #html-a11y
16:00:02 Zakim, call Mike
16:00:02 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:00:03 +Mike
16:00:23 +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:00:30 +Dick_Bulterman
16:00:49 +Rich
16:01:13 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0186.html
16:01:32 +Eric_Carlson
16:01:33 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0186.html
16:02:06 Joshue has joined #html-a11y
16:02:22 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
16:03:07 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Scribe_List
16:03:16 agenda?
16:03:37 Ben has joined #html-a11y
16:03:40 +Matt
16:03:44 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
16:03:46 Chair: MikeSmith
16:03:47 agenda+ decision on Canvas navsubstree proposal to HTML WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0014.html
16:03:49 agenda+ status of Canvas focuse proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility
16:03:51 agenda+ decision on Multitrack API proposal to HTML WG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI
16:03:52 agenda+ status of TextAssociations proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations
16:03:54 agenda+ status of summary-details change proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Details_element_as_a_replacement_for_summary_attribute%2C_Feb_15%2C_2010
16:03:55 +??P6
16:03:55 agenda+ f2f planning for April 6-7 meeting
16:03:57 agenda+ actions review
16:03:58 agenda+ resolved & rejected bugs review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0168.html
16:04:01 agenda+ any other business
16:04:03 agenda+ next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe
16:04:06 zakim, ??P6 is Ben_Caldwell
16:04:10 +Ben_Caldwell; got it
16:04:13 FYI canvas subgroup telecon minutes (2010-03-08)
16:04:33 FYI canvas subgroup telecon minutes (2010-03-08) http://www.w3.org/2010/03/08-html-a11y-minutes.html
16:04:36 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0186.html
16:04:37 +[Microsoft]
16:04:48 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:04:48 +paulc; got it
16:05:15 zakim, who is here?
16:05:15 On the phone I see Janina, Stevef, Michael_Cooper, Mike, Gregory_Rosmaita, Dick_Bulterman (muted), Rich, Eric_Carlson, Matt, Ben_Caldwell, [Microsoft]
16:05:17 [Microsoft] has paulc
16:05:18 On IRC I see Ben, richardschwerdtfe, Joshue, eric_carlson, Zakim, RRSAgent, Stevef, janina, oedipus, paulc, MichaelC, MikeSmith, trackbot
16:06:09 scribe: Stevef
16:06:19 zakim, take up item 1
16:06:19 agendum 1. "decision on Canvas navsubstree proposal to HTML WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0014.html" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:06:37 canvas subgroup telecon minutes (2010-03-08) http://www.w3.org/2010/03/08-html-a11y-minutes.html
16:07:29 regrets: Kelly_Ford, Aurélien_Levy, Jon_Gunderson, Markku_Hakkinen, Denis_Boudreau, Laura_Carlson, Marco_Ranon
16:07:30 Mike: navsubtree has greater agreement at this point, anyone object to sending ot html wg for wider review
16:07:30 gfreed has joined #html-a11y
16:07:34 discussion of ADom and imagemap approaches: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/08-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02
16:07:57 janina: will be couple of additional pieces coming later including focus proposal
16:08:02 + +1.617.300.aaaa - is perhaps WGBH?
16:08:23 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility
16:08:39 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Map4NotAdom
16:08:59 rich's proposal email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JanMar/0276.html
16:09:04 zakim, WGBH is Geoff_Freed
16:09:04 +Geoff_Freed; got it
16:09:05 rich: 2 other proposals 1 focus and caret tracking and image map 2. image map, need to work on with chaals,
16:09:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/12
16:09:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/19
16:10:11 mike: record a resolution to put navsubtree proposal forward, and give people 48 hours to object, but needs more wider discussion
16:10:52 mike: will put in language for proposed resolution as placeholder until agreed
16:12:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:12:35 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it principle and the related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be forthcoming.
16:13:22 plus 1
16:13:24 +1
16:13:55 plus 1 with removal of "in principle"
16:14:24 SF: Rich asking for change proposal for HTML WG wiki? this is spec ready text, right?
16:14:38 RS: Maciej said need justification for why we are doing it on the wiki
16:14:50 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.
16:14:56 SF: i can create the necessary wiki page -- then get input required for rationale
16:15:07 MS: do need the wiki page, if you can volunteer, it would be great
16:15:12 SF: will mock it up today
16:15:20 RS: SteveF, you'll set up
16:15:40 SF: yes -- will send URI to TF list -- need to reveiew rationale to ensure has all required info
16:15:45 RS: reveiw period?
16:15:50 MS: 48 hours
16:15:53 RS: ok
16:16:08 MC: 48 hour period -- web based survey or call for objections on mailing list
16:16:11 RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.
16:16:15 MS: call for objections on list
16:16:38 MS: action for SteveF to write up change proposal in way HTML WG requires
16:16:44 zakim, take up item 2
16:16:44 agendum 2. "status of Canvas focuse proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:17:06 mike: rich please update us
16:17:12 i/SF: Rich asking for change/scribnick: oedipus
16:17:35 i/mike: rich please update/scribenick: Stevef
16:17:39 i/SF: Rich asking for change/scribenick: oedipus
16:17:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:18:29 RESOLVED: The a11y TF resolves that the canvas navsubtree proposal is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.
16:18:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:18:56 Rich: 1 tried to be inline with 2d spec, merged caret/focus. and maciej had same concern , asking to spereate caret out. bit in spec about who draws focus ring waiting for clarification. will then write proposal update, hopeing to have it ready in the next couple of weeks
16:19:23 SF: need clarification from hixie
16:19:35 RS: sent to maciej - first canvas implementation by apple
16:19:46 zakim, drop item 1
16:19:46 agendum 1, decision on Canvas navsubstree proposal to HTML WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0014.html, dropped
16:19:49 zakim, drop item 2
16:19:49 agendum 2, status of Canvas focuse proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/canvasaccessibility, dropped
16:19:55 zakim, take up item 3
16:19:55 agendum 3. "decision on Multitrack API proposal to HTML WG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:20:23 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/multitrack-api/results
16:20:26 mike: eric please summarise state of agreement
16:20:54 eric: sylvia sent out a summary of things that need to be changed in the spec in regards to multitrack api
16:21:21 eric: believe it had consensus
16:21:31 mike: to do resolution
16:21:56 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0177.html
16:22:07 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/text-associations/
16:22:13 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The a11y TF resolves that the Multitrack API proposal -- after Silvia makes the changes she outlined by e-mail -- is ready for wider review by the HTML WG, with the understanding that the a11y TF supports it and that related proposals needed to fully resolve the related issue are still under discussion and will be brought to the HTML WG later.
16:22:37 kliehm has joined #html-a11y
16:23:06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0178.html
16:23:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0199.html <- Dick's message
16:23:54 Joshue has joined #html-a11y
16:24:00 dick: minority opinion re tracks proposal, form our SMIL experienece, things being merged, not particularly clean and locks into approach, should decouple slection and synchronization, proposal doesn't handle it cleanly, not a wise combination from SMIL experienec
16:24:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0203.html <- Philip's reply
16:24:53 eric: i don't think we are too far down the path to change, if something else makes more sens, maybe we hold of on sending to html wg to discuss further
16:25:06 plus 1 to eric
16:25:20 janina: also would like discussion on TF call before sending to WG
16:25:50 eric: hoped people who had an opinion would have jumped in on mailing list discussion
16:26:18 dick: will provide SMIL examples of approach, design philosophy
16:26:48 dick: do not want to obstruct but think there are things current proposal does not cover
16:27:08 mike: more discussion is good, so go for it
16:27:39 mike: better to take more mature proposal
16:27:56 eric: issue will come up so need to talk more
16:28:49 Mike: would be nice to expidite it and value in getting wider discussion
16:29:19 Mike: will look at it start of next week status check
16:29:26 zakim, drop item 3
16:29:26 agendum 3, decision on Multitrack API proposal to HTML WG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI, dropped
16:29:37 zakim, take up item 4
16:29:37 agendum 4. "status of TextAssociations proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:30:00 mike: text association proposal, eric summary?
16:30:12 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/media-text-format/?
16:30:43 eric: sylvia went through all emails, summarised issues that need to eb addressed before we send to wider group, not a long list of changes
16:31:02 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0177.html
16:31:05 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0177.html
16:31:42 mike: more discussion on formats is neceserry, will need to move file formats from change request
16:32:08 mike: some people won't support this
16:32:28 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations
16:32:55 mike: we have a choice, the file formats part is what we don't have agreement on, but sylvia thinks this won't happen soon, so remove from proposal
16:33:27 mike: anybody on the call today object from removing the formats section for now?
16:33:42 sylvia: "not clear what requirements would necessitate more than just srt - I am planning on a separate discussion thread as soon as the format survey is closed. For now we will probably need to remove the section about file formats from the change request "
16:34:31 eric: if we remove ot from the propsoal, have to have wording to say why , with a goal to coming up with some format requirment as this will never fly unless we have some sort of format reuirement
16:34:52 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/text-associations/
16:35:10 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/text-associations/results
16:35:40 Joshue has joined #html-a11y
16:35:55 dick: formatting issue, what is mandated, needs to be a set of requirements for short to middle term, other part of proposal from my perspective links selection and synchronization together same problem as previouys
16:36:34 dick: many synchronization concerns glossed over, have these things been talked about, are we interetsed in feedback?
16:37:23 mike: does seem we have agreement that the requirements aren't clear, what would neccesitate more than SRT, does not ste what format is needed
16:37:29 FWIW: strongly believe that the popularity of SRT is NOT a reason for it to supersede other formats in HTML5; its widespread use warrants consideration for its inclusion but NOT at the expense of other formats -- especially SmilText -- which support advanced text-display features which are NOT part of SRT
16:38:27 mike: if we do remove then put disclaimer in to say that this cannot be implemented unless we decide on formats. we are waiting on sylvia to change proposal
16:39:10 dick: multicolored text, or styled text has this disucssion taken place or have the issues been resolved
16:39:43 eric: don't think we have had discussions about whether styling is a requirement
16:40:38 wbgh: need to discuss these to resiolve format issue, i think to move things forward good idea to move format discussion out of current proposal
16:40:52 s/wbgh: need to/GeoffF: need to/
16:41:42 +Mike_Barta
16:41:55 mike: need to list iut the potential set of format requirements, but it is pretty clear the proposal is not ready, take some more time, sylvia needs to make chnages and back out to list for more discussion
16:42:16 dick: can this be discussed at f2f
16:42:29 zakim, agenda?
16:42:29 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:42:30 4. status of TextAssociations proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations [from MichaelC]
16:42:32 mike: yes we can, nee to discuss f2f agenda
16:42:33 5. status of summary-details change proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Details_element_as_a_replacement_for_summary_attribute%2C_Feb_15%2C_2010 [from MichaelC]
16:42:36 6. f2f planning for April 6-7 meeting [from MichaelC]
16:42:38 7. actions review [from MichaelC]
16:42:39 8. resolved & rejected bugs review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0168.html [from MichaelC]
16:42:41 the TF should have a concrete plan to decide what to do at the F2F and what NOT to do at the F2F and will be done separately.
16:42:42 9. any other business [from MichaelC]
16:42:44 10. next meetings, confirm date/time, choose scribe [from MichaelC]
16:43:01 dick: don't know who is going to be there
16:43:07 zakim, drop item 4
16:43:07 agendum 4, status of TextAssociations proposal: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations, dropped
16:43:27 zakim, take up item 6
16:43:27 agendum 6. "f2f planning for April 6-7 meeting" taken up [from MichaelC]
16:43:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:43:51 mike@ f2f agenda planning: topics?
16:45:01 mike: jeff will not be ther inperson, but via phone, eric will be there, philip from opera may not be there
16:45:06 s/mike@ f2f/mike: f2f/
16:45:47 mike: should be high on agenda, but may not get much done if right people are not attending
16:46:04 mike: MC , JS agendas?
16:46:49 paulc, can you speak briefly on the call today to give some suggestions about how best to plan for the f2f?
16:46:55 janina: list of topcs, may be useful to look at the list, also poepl to adopt items from list
16:47:32 -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Work_Topics Topic List
16:48:24 cyns: is API mapping on there/
16:48:54 paulC; how is it that mapping is an issue?
16:49:14 cyns: indivdiual bugs for individual issues
16:49:15 See http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138
16:50:41 SF: been response to some of statement of issues; some sorted, some unsorted; action for production of matrix still in progress; will work on it second day of PF face2face at CSUN
16:50:46 CS: easier to do in person
16:50:48 If this action is generating bugs rather than related to existing bugs that is a good explanation.
16:51:47 can somebody scribe now, i have to go
16:52:05 oedipus??
16:52:11 -Geoff_Freed
16:52:34 scribenick: oedipus
16:52:39 -Stevef
16:53:05 Paul suggests that the facilitators clearly define what issues will be on the F2F agenda and what actions the TF plans to take at the F2F.
16:53:18 MS: trying to figure out if specific action anyone can take on f2f planning; Janina and i need to get proposed agenda out A.S.A.P.; prior to that, more specific info about what needed to do to get agenda ready?
16:53:22 CS: phone bridge?
16:53:30 MC: made sure is a possibility for them
16:53:36 CS: can't travel to england that week
16:53:45 JS: there is a U.K. phone number to access Zakim
16:53:59 MS: Cooper, anything else to do in last 7 minutes to get closer to prep for f2f
16:54:28 CS: something that might help is to ask those who can't attend or call in to submit position paper or similar if want to make point; find a champion who is attending
16:54:47 JS: list that MSmit read off -- first half have tackled and are at some stage of resulution
16:55:14 JS: bottom half of list haven't started on at all -- some of those might move forward if can get volunteers to come up with proposals
16:56:05 MS: sounds possible; worry about adding more stuff to f2f discussion plans because don't want it to be overwhelming;
16:56:12 I have to leave to get ready to scribe the HTML WG meeting. Thanks.
16:56:29 MS: adding more topics may risk productivity
16:56:48 JS: long, prolonged controversial items, yes, but some low-hanging fruit like headers/id, and summary
16:56:58 MS: have starting point for list of f2f topics
16:57:12 MS: paul advised to distill down to specific topics
16:57:31 MS: about to loose a lot of partipants due to commencement of HTML WG telecon
16:57:35 MS: Janina, chair next week?
16:57:48 JS: yes; may be a lot of people missing in 2 weeks due to CSUN
16:58:01 MS: will be in cambridge, mass on 25 march 2010
16:58:07 JS: try to hold meeting or skip?
16:58:12 MS: decide next week
16:58:23 MS: make agenda item for next week -- meeting on 25 march 2010
16:59:07 JS: reminder - U.S. goes to Daylight Savings Time on Sunday, 14 march 2010 - meetings an hour earlier (w3c time pegged to E.S.T.)
16:59:19 CS: unable to participate much before CSUN
16:59:24 -[Microsoft]
16:59:26 MS: ADJOURN
16:59:32 [ADJOURNED]
16:59:35 -Mike_Barta
16:59:36 -Dick_Bulterman
16:59:37 -Michael_Cooper
16:59:38 -Eric_Carlson
16:59:39 -Ben_Caldwell
16:59:39 -Rich
16:59:40 Ben has left #html-a11y
16:59:41 -Matt
16:59:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:59:45 Zakim, drop Mike
16:59:45 Mike is being disconnected
16:59:46 -Mike
16:59:49 -Gregory_Rosmaita
16:59:51 -Janina
16:59:52 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
16:59:54 Attendees were Janina, Stevef, Michael_Cooper, Mike, Gregory_Rosmaita, Dick_Bulterman, Rich, Eric_Carlson, Matt, Ben_Caldwell, paulc, +1.617.300.aaaa, Geoff_Freed, Mike_Barta
17:00:13 present- +1.617.300.aaaa
17:00:16