Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference

10 Mar 2010


See also: IRC log


DKA, Marcos, +0161238aaaa, mischat, darobin, MacTed, cperey, danbri, bblfish, AnitaD, melvster


<trackbot> Date: 10 March 2010

<MacTed> bah. missed the hour delay note.

<MacTed> trackbot, end meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 10 March 2010

zakim +??P12 is me

zakim ?P12 is me

zakim ??P12 is me

<Marcos> mischat === harry ?

ok DKA

i can scribe

<DKA> Scribe: mischat

<DKA> ScribeNick: mischat

<cperey> hi

<DKA> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 3 March 2010 as a true record ( http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-swxg-minutes.html )


<cperey> +1

<DKA> +1

this call is limited to an hour

<DKA> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. March 17th.

the focus of today's meeting will be on the widgets talk

<danbri> some historical notes in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussion ... not sure how timely they still are

DKA give regrets for next weeks call

any administrative topics, worth mentioning, please do so now

<danbri> DKA: I'm a widgetarian and proud of it

Widgets is one of those words which has lots of connotations dependant on context

in the W3C context DKA, Marcos, and darobin have been working on the W3C Widgets

<Marcos> A widget is defined by the [Widgets-Landscape] as "an end-user's conceptualization of an interactive single purpose application for displaying and/or updating local data or data on the Web, packaged in a way to allow a single download and installation on a user's machine, mobile phone, or Internet-enabled device".

widgets have taken on a new another meaning in social space, that is of functionality in a social container

<danbri> (in a previous life, I worked with Robin and Libby Miller on widgets for TV stuff)

3 invited speakers Marcos, darobin, and Scott from apache

ah scott

thanks darobin

Scott to start taking about the Apache project and what they are doing with Widgets

Scott, uses widgets, gadgets, and apps interchangeably

Wookie ?

url someone please

<darobin> yes Wookie

Apache Incubator project called Wookie, implements the W3C Widget API


thanks darobin

Wookie team wanted to support collaborative, multi-user widgets

the W3C API is neutral to the number of users who are said to work with a given widget

so Wookie implemented the Google Wave API to add collaborative functionality to the W3C Widget API

there are integration points between the Wookie widgets and shindig widgets


where Shindig apps are Open Social Widgets

<darobin> [ShinDig is an OpenSocial implementation]

thanks again

danbri is asking about Open Social, and how they use OAuth and authentication APIs

<darobin> on authentication methods, see Powerbox http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Feb/att-0140/Overview.html

Wookie does the same thing as Open Social, they exchange tokens to create trust between widgets and APIs

<danbri> eg. http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/2leggedoauth/2opensocialrestapi

both Shindig and Wookie server widgets as iframe in webpages, which ends up going through trusted proxys

<darobin> WARP is http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-access/

DKA, is breaking up

DKA, what type of feedback have you had from the community (outside of the standards body) re: W3C widgets

most people downloading wookie, seem to be people outside the standards body, which elgg

<melvster> http://elgg.org/

which include elgg, an open decentralised social network

most people interested in collaboration tend to use shindig

<Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask about top 3 things w3c-and-friends might do to reduce pain for developers learning these techs

<danbri> shindig uses terrifying amounts of js

danbri, from a developer point of view how could you reduce the barrier to entry by uniting the two different APIs (shindig & wookie)

<danbri> re packaging, i quite like Mozilla Jetpack's non-packaging approach (raw .js urls)

<darobin> danbri, that doesn't make it easy to carry things across systems though

the two specs seem to have clearer APIs now, which should make it easier for developers to create widgets


<bblfish> are those APIs or dataformats ( re: "people api, album api, …")

Wookie has implemented most of the W3C API already

<danbri> (who joined? you are noisy)

<bblfish> yes, I hear the noise too

the google wave API has a collection of collaborative API calls, which work nicely with the People centric API calls from other APIs

<Zakim> darobin, you wanted to mention Powerbox

darobin: do you have feedback on what we just heard, from an implementation point of view

<Marcos> danbri: jetpack dumped that model

<Marcos> danbri: it was borked

<danbri> marcos, got an url?

<Marcos> yep, one sec

darobin: is going to mention powerbox, this is about plugin which allows for ways to install new APIs into a browser, which allows a website to access data from a different server. This is to do with the OAuth question earlier

<Marcos> danbri: see http://vimeo.com/10011379

<Marcos> he explains it in the vid

the impact for this working group, it that powebox may give users an easy method to connect data from one website to another in a safe manner ?

in the powerbox approach, the user selects which service they wish to integrate data from

widgets developers wants functionality such as "give me contacts module"

for a given api

Powerbox is said to make it easier to the end user to select which APIs they wish to interact with

bblfish is coming from the linked data, foaf, distributed world. Henry asks how do widgets fit into this model of a distributed social network

widgets should be oblivious to the platform in which they are being embedded into

henry, asks what is meant by an API, he asks whether the API is a data-model focused API?

they tend to be JS APIs which define the data returned by a given API call

examples include getViewer() -> which gets info about the viewer of the current page, the data would include avatar, an ID, and a name

other examples include getViewersFriends() -> which returns info regarding the viewer's friends

both shindig and wookie require a unique identifier, they ask for hashes, i.e. URI's which have no external meaning

henry is talking about the pros of having a URI which is resolvable, which does have external meaning, so that everytime a widget gets given a URI, this would allow the widget to go out and get info about the URI used

<DKA> thanks darobin!

Marcos, wanted to talk about opera unite which uses widgets to make a client act as a services, to allow for peer-2-peer communication on the web

<danbri> bye robin!

allowing for servers to built on the client side, opera unite has been dealing with how they could do with using the http: protocol

DKA, how is wookie using OAuth?

Wookie's main use case for OAuth, is for when a widget wants to get data from an OAuth endpoint

in opera unite, OAuth is used to leverage data found in external services too

OAuth allows for server => server communication

<Marcos> CORS

the W3C widget spec is going to consider OAuth as a mechanism to get data from a different container

<danbri> (oh, i missed that? thought it was re Wookie)


sorry, i thought he said in the W3C

danbri asked if anyone is looking at OAuthwrap

people are waiting to see what happens to the OAuth spec, waiting for things to settling down

sorry, i missed all of that


thank you

<Marcos> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetSpecs

marcos described the widget spec, details of which can be found ^^

the widget spec will be blocked by html5, as there are dependencies there

nope danbri

the W3C widget community have been aware of the Wookie work for a long time

scott has been implementing everything before everyone else

there is a need for API, and for specifying how data will flow between widgets

widget's are supposed to be a simple container format, social interactions would be fantastic, but are not necessary

W3C Media Annotations

<Marcos> +q

danbri is talking about how we need an extensibility model before work can be unified

the widgets specification is based on XML, i.e. extensibility via namespaces, and the work is said to be extensible. The platform is designed to be very extensible

in wookie, you can APIs at runtime, i.e. functionality from the google wave gadget API can be added

in as need be

looking at widgets created, most people are looking for their widgets to go viral, how would the W3C spec supports this

the wookie work shows that widgets are easy to deploy onto a server environment

widgets are supposed to be easy to grab off of the web, so that they can be run elsewhere

this supports archival, by allowing people to recreate widgets

<danbri> (http://www.openintents.org/en/ is somehow relevant but i can't articulate details)

<bblfish> very cool.

you ripp things off of a server and host it on whatever device you wish

<danbri> eg -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/

A good next step would be too look at the various APIs available on the web, mapping it dap

mapping it to dap

thanks for interesting talks!

<bblfish> thanks, learned a lot :-)

and sorry for my rubbish scribing, lots of new things being talked about today

bye all

thank you

<danbri> thanks folks!

<Marcos> trackbot, make minutes

<trackbot> Sorry, Marcos, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

<DKA> thanks!

<Marcos> hmm... nope :)

<DKA> trackbot, make minutes please

<trackbot> Sorry, DKA, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes please'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

<melvster> hmm

<melvster> i think i could have just asked trackbot to end meeting

<DKA> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: DKA, Marcos, +0161238aaaa, mischat, darobin, MacTed, cperey, danbri, bblfish, AnitaD, melvster
Present: DKA Marcos +0161238aaaa mischat darobin MacTed cperey danbri bblfish AnitaD melvster
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html

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Found Date: 10 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-minutes.html
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