IRC log of wam on 2010-03-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:00:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wam
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-irc
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IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has now started
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joining in a split second!
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+Art_Barstow
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RRSAgent, make log public
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ScribeNick: ArtB
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Scribe: Art
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0741.html
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Chair: Art
14:01:17 [ArtB]
Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
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Date: 4 March 2010
14:01:20 [ArtB]
Regrets: Marcin
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+Marcos
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+Bryan_Sullivan
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+[IPcaller]
14:03:01 [darobin]
Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:03:01 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
14:03:06 [ArtB]
Present: Art, Bryan, Marcos, Robin
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+arve
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Present+ Arve
14:04:07 [ArtB]
Topic: Review and tweak agenda
14:04:13 [ArtB]
AB: the draft agenda was posted on March 3 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0741.html ). Will add View Modes Media Features to the agenda since Robin posted an update today ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0745.html ). Any other change requests?
14:04:36 [ArtB]
Topic: Announcements?
14:04:42 [ArtB]
AB: I have one: No call next week on March 11; next call will be March 18. Any other short announcements?
14:04:51 [Steven]
Steven has joined #wam
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Present+ StevenP
14:05:06 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
14:05:06 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:05:08 [Zakim]
+Steven
14:05:16 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
14:05:16 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
14:05:22 [ArtB]
Topic: P&C spec: <span> element and dir attribute
14:05:30 [Zakim]
-Marcos
14:05:31 [ArtB]
AB: earlier this week Marcos submitted a proposal on how to address the <span> element and dir attribute ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0715.html ).
14:06:12 [ArtB]
MC: I'm waiting to see what the I18N WG says
14:06:20 [ArtB]
... I added <span> and dir attr to the spec
14:06:27 [ArtB]
... but I have not spec'ed he behavior
14:06:39 [ArtB]
... we want to defer the proc model to a sepearate spec
14:06:51 [ArtB]
AB: is that proving to be problematic?
14:06:57 [ArtB]
MC: it's a bit complicated
14:07:08 [ArtB]
... the bidi stuff that is
14:07:20 [ArtB]
... if dir attr is set globally, need to set limits
14:07:36 [ArtB]
... some stuff such as IRI interaction isn't clear
14:07:51 [ArtB]
... for example <name> has a short name
14:08:11 [ArtB]
... could have name in English and short name in Hebrew
14:08:31 [ArtB]
AB: are you having a diaglog with I18N group?
14:08:41 [ArtB]
MC: they were supposed to discuss it yesterday
14:08:47 [ArtB]
... haven't seen their minutes yet
14:09:09 [ArtB]
... Scott and Addison have been discussing it
14:09:28 [ArtB]
... not clear how attrs are affected by direction
14:09:40 [ArtB]
AB: what's the prior art?
14:09:43 [ArtB]
MC: HTML5
14:09:54 [ArtB]
... but I think it is underspecified
14:09:59 [ArtB]
AB: other formats?
14:10:06 [ArtB]
MC: SVG is likely
14:10:13 [ArtB]
... so we could check it
14:10:39 [ArtB]
AB: I would expect a lot of languages
14:10:49 [ArtB]
RB: SMIL, XForms, etc.
14:10:56 [darobin]
... DocBook, TEI
14:11:35 [ArtB]
AB: can we minimize the changes to P&C and defer all processing to the separate spec?
14:11:49 [ArtB]
MC: yes, that's the intent but not clear if we can get that
14:12:30 [Steven]
q+
14:12:33 [ArtB]
... when an impl gets back a dir string, it's got additional semantics in it
14:12:57 [Steven]
ack me
14:13:06 [ArtB]
SP: can't we just use CSS for this?
14:13:18 [ArtB]
... CSS has a rule that matches bidi algorithm
14:13:33 [ArtB]
MC: there is no style associated with config.xml
14:13:53 [ArtB]
... that is also discouraged in some places e.g. HTML5
14:14:05 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
14:14:05 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
14:14:30 [Steven]
ack me
14:14:47 [ArtB]
MC: the behavior we are looking for is indeed defined in CSS
14:15:03 [ArtB]
SP: can't we just say the text included behaves the same rules as CSS
14:15:12 [ArtB]
MC: yes, that is part of the solution
14:15:16 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
14:15:16 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
14:15:20 [ArtB]
... but there are additional issues too
14:15:55 [ArtB]
AB: let's pause to see if the I18N WG has posted their minutes from yesterday's discussion
14:16:05 [ArtB]
MC: yes, sure
14:16:44 [ArtB]
AB: I just checked their archive and see no postings on March 3 or 4
14:17:12 [Steven]
http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-pf-minutes.html
14:17:30 [Steven]
is that it?
14:17:37 [ArtB]
AB: OK, so what is the plan of action
14:17:51 [ArtB]
MC: need to continue the investigation
14:18:06 [ArtB]
... in my last email to them I asked them questions
14:18:14 [ArtB]
... we need to get their answers
14:18:50 [ArtB]
ACTION: barstow followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions
14:18:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-506 - Followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-03-11].
14:19:20 [ArtB]
AB: the draft agenda includes a discussion on the Widget BiDi spec
14:19:28 [ArtB]
... I presume there is no need to discuss that now
14:19:42 [ArtB]
MC: yes, that's correct; we need to get feedback from I18N WG
14:20:12 [ArtB]
... this is a new and complex area
14:20:29 [ArtB]
AB: ok; understood; KUTGW
14:20:52 [ArtB]
Topic: WARP spec
14:22:06 [ArtB]
AB: the WARP PAG is still in progress and we may continue to work on the spec ( http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-access/ ). Two questions here: what is the status of LC comment responses ( http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-access-20091208/ ) and what is the status of the test suite?
14:22:39 [ArtB]
RB: I think there is only 1 LC comment
14:22:53 [ArtB]
... and it was from Dom and is straight forward
14:23:03 [ArtB]
... I'll follow-up today
14:23:29 [ArtB]
AB: my recollection is there are two but I'll need to do some searching
14:23:33 [ArtB]
RB: I'll check too
14:24:08 [ArtB]
AB: Marcos, you will object to WARP going to CR without a test suite?
14:24:12 [ArtB]
MC: yes that is correct
14:24:13 [Steven]
q+
14:24:37 [ArtB]
AB: a question is, who is willing to work on the test suite?
14:24:39 [Steven]
ack me
14:24:59 [ArtB]
SP: what's the problem with entering CR without a test suite?
14:25:55 [ArtB]
MC: we have had problems with other specs because there was no TS
14:26:04 [Steven]
zakim, mute me
14:26:04 [Zakim]
Steven should now be muted
14:26:12 [ArtB]
... it caused us to have to create multiple CRs
14:26:14 [ArtB]
SP: OK
14:26:57 [ArtB]
AB: so, is anyone willing to contribute to the WARP TS?
14:27:06 [ArtB]
MC: we need another server to test against
14:27:16 [ArtB]
... need that for cross-domain access
14:27:18 [darobin]
[we can test with www and dev]
14:27:30 [ArtB]
... think we can use dev.w3.org and then my server or RB's server
14:28:07 [ArtB]
AB: so finding the servers doesn't seem like a big factor
14:28:36 [ArtB]
MC: could potentially do everything on one server if diff ports are used
14:28:51 [ArtB]
RB: could use www.w3.org and dev.w3.org
14:28:56 [ArtB]
... so think we'll be fine
14:29:05 [ArtB]
MC: ok; let's do it that way
14:29:30 [ArtB]
... if RB could follow the pattern I used, that would be great
14:29:42 [ArtB]
RB: I can help if you
14:29:54 [ArtB]
MC: but I can help set up the infra
14:30:02 [ArtB]
... but that's not the test cases
14:30:05 [ArtB]
RB: understood
14:30:19 [ArtB]
... if you set up the infra, I'll create the tests
14:30:41 [ArtB]
AB: did I capture your agreements properly?
14:30:44 [ArtB]
RB: yes
14:30:45 [ArtB]
MC: yes
14:30:56 [ArtB]
MC: are we talking about 20 tests or so?
14:31:12 [ArtB]
... but could be more like 100
14:31:23 [ArtB]
RB: seriously doubt it will reach that high
14:31:38 [ArtB]
AB: thanks MC and RB
14:31:56 [ArtB]
Topic: URI scheme spec
14:32:03 [ArtB]
AB: Robin, did you respond to Julian Reschke's 25-Feb comment ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0713.html )?
14:32:13 [ArtB]
RB: not yet
14:32:35 [ArtB]
... I will respond to the three comments
14:32:49 [ArtB]
Topic: View Modes Media Feature spec
14:32:58 [ArtB]
AB: earlier today Robin announced a new ED of the VMMF spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0745.html ).
14:33:02 [darobin]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-vmmf/Overview.html
14:33:27 [ArtB]
RB: it's really simple
14:33:34 [ArtB]
... defines one media feature
14:33:47 [ArtB]
... since it is a UI-related spec, we can't be overly constraining
14:34:18 [ArtB]
... the spec says UA should make a "best-effort" attempt
14:34:25 [ArtB]
AB: any comments?
14:34:33 [ArtB]
... I like the simplicity
14:34:52 [ArtB]
... as well as providing the freedom for the UA to do-the-right-thing
14:35:01 [ArtB]
AB: what about a heads-up to CSS WG and if so, what list do we use?
14:35:30 [ArtB]
RB: yes, we should; I suggest www-style
14:36:01 [ArtB]
AB: what do people think about starting a 2-week pre-LCWD comment review period?
14:36:03 [darobin]
+1
14:36:06 [ArtB]
RB: think that's a good idea
14:36:13 [ArtB]
MC: agree
14:36:18 [ArtB]
Arve: yes
14:36:31 [ArtB]
AB: any objections?
14:36:39 [Steven]
I'm OK wit htat
14:36:48 [Steven]
s/wit htat/with that/
14:36:52 [ArtB]
AB: OK, I'll start that review
14:37:05 [ArtB]
... and then I'll forward that announcement to www-style
14:37:09 [ArtB]
AB: OK?
14:37:16 [ArtB]
RB: OK
14:37:34 [darobin]
s/RB: OK/RB: Yes, Mr Barstow/
14:37:36 [ArtB]
ACTION: barstow start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec
14:37:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-507 - Start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-03-11].
14:37:52 [ArtB]
AB: who is willing to contribute to the test suite?
14:38:07 [ArtB]
... could be a pretty thin test suite
14:38:19 [ArtB]
RB: there is only 1 normative assertion and it is a SHOULD
14:38:39 [ArtB]
MC: could be about 10 test case
14:38:59 [ArtB]
... there are 5 states plus error conditions
14:39:09 [ArtB]
... there is also the fallback behavior
14:40:37 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on this for today?
14:40:41 [ArtB]
[ No ]
14:40:49 [ArtB]
Topic: AOB
14:40:57 [ArtB]
AB: Next and last call in March is March 18 (no calls on March 11 or 25)
14:41:15 [ArtB]
AB: Heads-up: time for March 18 will be the same in US but 1 hour earlier in Europe (14:00 Paris)
14:41:51 [Steven]
q+
14:41:56 [ArtB]
... would that be problematic?
14:42:02 [Steven]
ACK ME
14:42:04 [ArtB]
RB: shold be ok
14:42:13 [ArtB]
s/shold/should/
14:42:17 [Steven]
ack me
14:42:36 [ArtB]
SP: US changes on Marc 13?
14:42:38 [ArtB]
AB: yes
14:42:49 [ArtB]
RB: I must send regrets for the 18th
14:43:35 [ArtB]
AB: any other business for today?
14:43:55 [ArtB]
AB: Meeting Adjourned
14:44:03 [Zakim]
-darobin
14:44:03 [Steven]
bye
14:44:04 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
14:44:04 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Sullivan
14:44:06 [Zakim]
-arve
14:44:08 [Zakim]
-Steven
14:44:08 [Zakim]
IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Art_Barstow, Marcos, Bryan_Sullivan, darobin, arve, Steven
14:44:36 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:44:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:44:54 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make log Public
14:45:00 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
14:45:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:46:01 [arve]
arve has left #wam
14:47:36 [ArtB]
zakim, bye
14:47:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wam
14:48:14 [ArtB]
rrsagent, bye
14:48:14 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-actions.rdf :
14:48:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: barstow followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions [1]
14:48:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-irc#T14-18-50
14:48:14 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: barstow start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec [2]
14:48:14 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-irc#T14-37-36