14:00:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
14:00:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-irc
14:00:58 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has now started
14:01:05 <darobin> joining in a split second!
14:01:05 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
14:01:09 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log public
14:01:11 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
14:01:12 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
14:01:14 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0741.html
14:01:15 <ArtB> Chair: Art
14:01:17 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
14:01:18 <ArtB> Date: 4 March 2010
14:01:20 <ArtB> Regrets: Marcin
14:01:33 <Zakim> +Marcos
14:02:20 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
14:02:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:03:01 <darobin> Zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:03:01 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:03:06 <ArtB> Present: Art, Bryan, Marcos, Robin
14:03:11 <bsulliva> bsulliva has joined #wam
14:03:51 <Zakim> +arve
14:03:55 <arve> arve has joined #wam
14:04:00 <ArtB> Present+ Arve
14:04:07 <ArtB> Topic: Review and tweak agenda
14:04:13 <ArtB> AB: the draft agenda was posted on March 3 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0741.html ). Will add View Modes Media Features to the agenda since Robin posted an update today ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0745.html ). Any other change requests?
14:04:36 <ArtB> Topic: Announcements?
14:04:42 <ArtB> AB: I have one: No call next week on March 11; next call will be March 18. Any other short announcements?
14:04:51 <Steven> Steven has joined #wam
14:05:03 <ArtB> Present+ StevenP
14:05:06 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:05:06 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:05:08 <Zakim> +Steven
14:05:16 <Steven> zakim, mute me
14:05:16 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
14:05:22 <ArtB> Topic: P&C spec: <span> element and dir attribute
14:05:30 <Zakim> -Marcos
14:05:31 <ArtB> AB: earlier this week Marcos submitted a proposal on how to address the <span> element and dir attribute ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0715.html ). 
14:06:12 <ArtB> MC: I'm waiting to see what the I18N WG says
14:06:20 <ArtB> ... I added <span> and dir attr to the spec
14:06:27 <ArtB> ... but I have not spec'ed he behavior
14:06:39 <ArtB> ... we want to defer the proc model to a sepearate spec
14:06:51 <ArtB> AB: is that proving to be problematic?
14:06:57 <ArtB> MC: it's a bit complicated
14:07:08 <ArtB> ... the bidi stuff that is
14:07:20 <ArtB> ... if dir attr is set globally, need to set limits
14:07:36 <ArtB> ... some stuff such as IRI interaction isn't clear
14:07:51 <ArtB> ... for example <name> has a short name
14:08:11 <ArtB> ... could have name in English and short name in Hebrew
14:08:31 <ArtB> AB: are you having a diaglog with I18N group?
14:08:41 <ArtB> MC: they were supposed to discuss it yesterday
14:08:47 <ArtB> ... haven't seen their minutes yet
14:09:09 <ArtB> ... Scott and Addison have been discussing it
14:09:28 <ArtB> ... not clear how attrs are affected by direction
14:09:40 <ArtB> AB: what's the prior art?
14:09:43 <ArtB> MC: HTML5
14:09:54 <ArtB> ... but I think it is underspecified
14:09:59 <ArtB> AB: other formats?
14:10:06 <ArtB> MC: SVG is likely 
14:10:13 <ArtB> ... so we could check it
14:10:39 <ArtB> AB: I would expect a lot of languages
14:10:49 <ArtB> RB: SMIL, XForms, etc.
14:10:56 <darobin> ... DocBook, TEI
14:11:35 <ArtB> AB: can we minimize the changes to P&C and defer all processing to the separate spec?
14:11:49 <ArtB> MC: yes, that's the intent but not clear if we can get that
14:12:30 <Steven> q+
14:12:33 <ArtB> ... when an impl gets back a dir string, it's got additional semantics in it
14:12:57 <Steven> ack me
14:13:06 <ArtB> SP: can't we just use CSS for this?
14:13:18 <ArtB> ... CSS has a rule that matches bidi algorithm
14:13:33 <ArtB> MC: there is no style associated with config.xml
14:13:53 <ArtB> ... that is also discouraged in some places e.g. HTML5
14:14:05 <Steven> zakim, mute me
14:14:05 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
14:14:30 <Steven> ack me
14:14:47 <ArtB> MC: the behavior we are looking for is indeed defined in CSS
14:15:03 <ArtB> SP: can't we just say the text included behaves the same rules as CSS
14:15:12 <ArtB> MC: yes, that is part of the solution
14:15:16 <Steven> zakim, mute me
14:15:16 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
14:15:20 <ArtB> ... but there are additional issues too
14:15:55 <ArtB> AB: let's pause to see if the I18N WG has posted their minutes from yesterday's discussion
14:16:05 <ArtB> MC: yes, sure
14:16:44 <ArtB> AB: I just checked their archive and see no postings on March 3 or 4
14:17:12 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-pf-minutes.html
14:17:30 <Steven> is that it?
14:17:37 <ArtB> AB: OK, so what is the plan of action
14:17:51 <ArtB> MC: need to continue the investigation
14:18:06 <ArtB> ... in my last email to them I asked them questions
14:18:14 <ArtB> ... we need to get their answers
14:18:50 <ArtB> ACTION: barstow followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions
14:18:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-506 - Followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-03-11].
14:19:20 <ArtB> AB: the draft agenda includes a discussion on the Widget BiDi spec
14:19:28 <ArtB> ... I presume there is no need to discuss that now
14:19:42 <ArtB> MC: yes, that's correct; we need to get feedback from I18N WG
14:20:12 <ArtB> ... this is a new and complex area 
14:20:29 <ArtB> AB: ok; understood; KUTGW
14:20:52 <ArtB> Topic: WARP spec
14:22:06 <ArtB> AB: the WARP PAG is still in progress and we may continue to work on the spec ( http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-access/ ). Two questions here: what is the status of LC comment responses ( http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-access-20091208/ ) and what is the status of the test suite?
14:22:39 <ArtB> RB: I think there is only 1 LC comment
14:22:53 <ArtB> ... and it was from Dom and is straight forward
14:23:03 <ArtB> ... I'll follow-up today
14:23:29 <ArtB> AB: my recollection is there are two but I'll need to do some searching
14:23:33 <ArtB> RB: I'll check too
14:24:08 <ArtB> AB: Marcos, you will object to WARP going to CR without a test suite?
14:24:12 <ArtB> MC: yes that is correct
14:24:13 <Steven> q+
14:24:37 <ArtB> AB: a question is, who is willing to work on the test suite?
14:24:39 <Steven> ack me
14:24:59 <ArtB> SP: what's the problem with entering CR without a test suite?
14:25:55 <ArtB> MC: we have had problems with other specs because there was no TS
14:26:04 <Steven> zakim, mute me
14:26:04 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
14:26:12 <ArtB> ... it caused us to have to create multiple CRs
14:26:14 <ArtB> SP: OK
14:26:57 <ArtB> AB: so, is anyone willing to contribute to the WARP TS?
14:27:06 <ArtB> MC: we need another server to test against
14:27:16 <ArtB> ... need that for cross-domain access
14:27:18 <darobin> [we can test with www and dev]
14:27:30 <ArtB> ... think we can use dev.w3.org and then my server or RB's server
14:28:07 <ArtB> AB: so finding the servers doesn't seem like a big factor
14:28:36 <ArtB> MC: could potentially do everything on one server if diff ports are used
14:28:51 <ArtB> RB: could use www.w3.org and dev.w3.org
14:28:56 <ArtB> ... so think we'll be fine
14:29:05 <ArtB> MC: ok; let's do it that way
14:29:30 <ArtB> ... if RB could follow the pattern I used, that would be great
14:29:42 <ArtB> RB: I can help if you
14:29:54 <ArtB> MC: but I can help set up the infra
14:30:02 <ArtB> ... but that's not the test cases
14:30:05 <ArtB> RB: understood
14:30:19 <ArtB> ... if you set up the infra, I'll create the tests
14:30:41 <ArtB> AB: did I capture your agreements properly?
14:30:44 <ArtB> RB: yes
14:30:45 <ArtB> MC: yes
14:30:56 <ArtB> MC: are we talking about 20 tests or so?
14:31:12 <ArtB> ... but could be more like 100
14:31:23 <ArtB> RB: seriously doubt it will reach that high
14:31:38 <ArtB> AB: thanks MC and RB
14:31:56 <ArtB> Topic: URI scheme spec
14:32:03 <ArtB> AB: Robin, did you respond to Julian Reschke's 25-Feb comment ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0713.html )?
14:32:13 <ArtB> RB: not yet
14:32:35 <ArtB> ... I will respond to the three comments
14:32:49 <ArtB> Topic: View Modes Media Feature spec
14:32:58 <ArtB> AB: earlier today Robin announced a new ED of the VMMF spec ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JanMar/0745.html ).
14:33:02 <darobin> http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-vmmf/Overview.html
14:33:27 <ArtB> RB: it's really simple
14:33:34 <ArtB> ... defines one media feature
14:33:47 <ArtB> ... since it is a UI-related spec, we can't be overly constraining
14:34:18 <ArtB> ... the spec says UA should make a "best-effort" attempt
14:34:25 <ArtB> AB: any comments?
14:34:33 <ArtB> ... I like the simplicity
14:34:52 <ArtB> ... as well as providing the freedom for the UA to do-the-right-thing
14:35:01 <ArtB> AB: what about a heads-up to CSS WG and if so, what list do we use?
14:35:30 <ArtB> RB: yes, we should; I suggest www-style
14:36:01 <ArtB> AB: what do people think about starting a 2-week pre-LCWD comment review period?
14:36:03 <darobin> +1
14:36:06 <ArtB> RB: think that's a good idea
14:36:13 <ArtB> MC: agree
14:36:18 <ArtB> Arve: yes
14:36:31 <ArtB> AB: any objections?
14:36:39 <Steven> I'm OK wit htat
14:36:48 <Steven> s/wit htat/with that/
14:36:52 <ArtB> AB: OK, I'll start that review
14:37:05 <ArtB> ... and then I'll forward that announcement to www-style
14:37:09 <ArtB> AB: OK?
14:37:16 <ArtB> RB: OK
14:37:34 <darobin> s/RB: OK/RB: Yes, Mr Barstow/
14:37:36 <ArtB> ACTION: barstow start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec
14:37:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-507 - Start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-03-11].
14:37:52 <ArtB> AB: who is willing to contribute to the test suite?
14:38:07 <ArtB> ... could be a pretty thin test suite
14:38:19 <ArtB> RB: there is only 1 normative assertion and it is a SHOULD
14:38:39 <ArtB> MC: could be about 10 test case
14:38:59 <ArtB> ... there are 5 states plus error conditions
14:39:09 <ArtB> ... there is also the fallback behavior
14:40:37 <ArtB> AB: anything else on this for today?
14:40:41 <ArtB> [ No ]
14:40:49 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
14:40:57 <ArtB> AB: Next and last call in March is March 18 (no calls on March 11 or 25)
14:41:15 <ArtB> AB: Heads-up: time for March 18 will be the same in US but 1 hour earlier in Europe (14:00 Paris)
14:41:51 <Steven> q+
14:41:56 <ArtB> ... would that be problematic?
14:42:02 <Steven> ACK ME
14:42:04 <ArtB> RB: shold be ok
14:42:13 <ArtB> s/shold/should/
14:42:17 <Steven> ack me
14:42:36 <ArtB> SP: US changes on Marc 13?
14:42:38 <ArtB> AB: yes
14:42:49 <ArtB> RB: I must send regrets for the 18th
14:43:35 <ArtB> AB: any other business for today?
14:43:55 <ArtB> AB: Meeting Adjourned
14:44:03 <Zakim> -darobin
14:44:03 <Steven> bye
14:44:04 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
14:44:04 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
14:44:06 <Zakim> -arve
14:44:08 <Zakim> -Steven
14:44:08 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
14:44:10 <Zakim> Attendees were Art_Barstow, Marcos, Bryan_Sullivan, darobin, arve, Steven
14:44:36 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:44:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:44:54 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
14:45:00 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:45:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:46:01 <arve> arve has left #wam
14:47:36 <ArtB> zakim, bye
14:47:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wam
14:48:14 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
14:48:14 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-actions.rdf :
14:48:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: barstow followup with Richard and Addison re the <span> and dir attribute discussions [1]
14:48:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-irc#T14-18-50
14:48:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: barstow start a 2-week pre-LCWD review period for the VMMF spec [2]
14:48:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/03/04-wam-irc#T14-37-36