IRC log of svg on 2010-03-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:00:26 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()3:00PM scheduled to start now
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Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:31 [trackbot]
Date: 01 March 2010
20:01:22 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()3:00PM has now started
20:01:29 [Zakim]
20:01:36 [Zakim]
20:01:54 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:01:56 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:04:12 [Zakim]
20:04:40 [Zakim]
20:05:09 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:05:09 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:09:13 [anthony]
Scribe: anthony
20:09:18 [anthony]
Chair: Erik
20:09:42 [anthony]
Topic: Test Suite
20:09:50 [anthony]
CL: I saw your email before the telcon
20:09:53 [anthony]
... good work
20:10:04 [anthony]
... for the cases where the fonts are missing
20:10:06 [ed]
20:10:11 [anthony]
... they should be in the old test suite
20:10:32 [anthony]
ED: In the cases I've seen the conversion script probably ripped them out
20:10:54 [anthony]
... some of the tests have hard coded arial sections instead of using the SVG Font with fallback
20:11:13 [anthony]
CL: I think in most cases that's an error except for where it's Arial Font Family
20:11:25 [anthony]
ED: Where the SVG fonts are lost Anthony can you look at those to repair them
20:11:31 [anthony]
AG: Yes
20:11:49 [anthony]
ACTION: Anthony to look at missing fonts in 1.1 SE test suite
20:11:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2734 - Look at missing fonts in 1.1 SE test suite [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-03-08].
20:11:57 [anthony]
ED: There are a number of empty tests
20:12:02 [anthony]
... not sure what the point of that is
20:12:18 [anthony]
CL: It was to do with the old process of making tests
20:12:38 [anthony]
... originally a blank test was made as a place marker
20:13:17 [anthony]
... So deleting any empty ones should be fine
20:13:44 [anthony]
ACTION: Erik to Delete all the empty tests in the 1.1 SE tests suite
20:13:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2735 - Delete all the empty tests in the 1.1 SE tests suite [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-03-08].
20:14:12 [anthony]
ED: We need italic and sans faces for the fonts
20:14:20 [anthony]
... I never think we got around to getting those
20:14:27 [anthony]
CL: I think I have an action for that
20:14:32 [anthony]
... I'll get around to doing that
20:14:38 [anthony]
ED: We have two colour tests
20:14:52 [anthony]
... they are both complete except they still had the draft water mark
20:15:04 [anthony]
CL: Ok, probably just remove the colour draft water mark
20:15:16 [anthony]
ED: Just a bunch of tests need image patches
20:15:33 [anthony]
CL: What don't when people do them they can email in response to that thread?
20:15:44 [anthony]
ED: I can put that on the wiki if that helps
20:16:06 [anthony]
... my plan was to start from the bottom and work my way up the list
20:16:13 [anthony]
... hoping that someone can start at the top or the middle
20:16:20 [anthony]
and work downwards
20:17:13 [anthony]
CL: I select that many of them don't have the pass criteria specified in the right category?
20:17:29 [ed]
20:17:33 [anthony]
... we should upgrade all the tests to have a defined pass criteria and description
20:17:42 [anthony]
ED: That makes most sense
20:18:11 [anthony]
... this test here is ready to go. Just made an image patch for it. I was hoping we could accept this one
20:18:28 [anthony]
CL: PNG is a grey rectangle?
20:18:44 [anthony]
... presumably the PNG should be a green rectangle?
20:18:56 [anthony]
... Is the rectangle suppose to change colour?
20:19:07 [anthony]
ED: Both the text and the rectangle should change colour
20:19:19 [anthony]
CL: The pass criteria should say that
20:19:31 [anthony]
ED: So with that change can we approve the test?
20:19:33 [anthony]
CL: Yes
20:19:41 [anthony]
DG: Yes
20:20:45 [anthony]
ED: There are a few that looked really small
20:20:51 [anthony]
... which is kind of strange
20:20:59 [ed]
20:21:02 [anthony]
... missing a view box or something
20:21:24 [anthony]
CL: I know we had different sizes for Tiny, Basic and Full
20:22:21 [anthony]
... it says width=100% and height=100% and the viewBox is the standard one
20:22:54 [anthony]
... it's not that it's too small it just doesn't use the same area
20:23:47 [anthony]
... it's not dependent on font size. Just take out that closing <g> and the rest will be fixed
20:24:06 [jwatt]
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20:26:19 [anthony]
ED: We should have an explanation at the top about the reason for the Water Mark
20:26:30 [Zakim]
20:27:10 [anthony]
ACTION: Anthony to Add text at the top of the test harness explaining in the Draft Water Mark
20:27:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2736 - Add text at the top of the test harness explaining in the Draft Water Mark [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-03-08].
20:27:31 [ChrisL]
zakim, ipcaller is jwatt
20:27:31 [Zakim]
+jwatt; got it
20:27:38 [ChrisL]
zakim, mute jwatt
20:27:38 [Zakim]
jwatt should now be muted
20:30:20 [jwatt]
rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate jwatt
20:30:53 [anthony]
Topic: Gradient wording
20:30:55 [anthony]
20:31:31 [anthony]
20:33:59 [anthony]
CL: Resolution should say why we've gone one way
20:34:24 [anthony]
... wording about why an implementation method was chosen should be added
20:34:40 [anthony]
... could quote the email you sent about what authoring tools did
20:34:51 [anthony]
ED: So it's only adding new wording
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20:35:02 [anthony]
AG: Correct, so only new wording
20:35:08 [anthony]
ED: Looks fine to me
20:35:31 [anthony]
CL: Wording looks fine to me
20:35:44 [anthony]
AG: What about the diagrams are they ok?
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20:36:30 [anthony]
... is the radial one too big?
20:36:35 [anthony]
ED: They look fine to me
20:37:31 [anthony]
... do you have an SVG version of the PNG?
20:37:35 [anthony]
AG: Yes
20:37:45 [anthony]
CL: Would they make good tests?
20:37:50 [anthony]
AG: Possibly
20:38:03 [anthony]
ED: Would be nice to have a test in the test suite that checks these conditions
20:38:55 [anthony]
CL: Seems reasonably easy to test
20:39:03 [anthony]
... and we have more than two implementations passing it
20:39:20 [ChrisL]
20:39:28 [anthony]
... we'd need to add it to the implementation report
20:43:35 [anthony]
ACTION: Anthony to Create test cases that test the new wording added on gradients
20:43:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2737 - Create test cases that test the new wording added on gradients [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-03-08].
20:46:22 [ed]
20:46:45 [anthony]
Topic: API Binding
20:46:57 [anthony]
DS: This is something that only affects future specs
20:47:17 [anthony]
... because we don't plan on making the IDL inline do we?
20:48:42 [anthony]
... Just something to keep in mind
20:49:53 [anthony]
Topic: FX Task Force telcon
20:50:09 [anthony]
... I think we haven't clearly defined when the telcon times are on
20:50:20 [anthony]
... I think CSS people are a bit confused
20:50:31 [anthony]
... should probably send and agenda with time out
20:50:53 [anthony]
DS: So send something out for next Thursday
20:51:04 [anthony]
... why don't we try this Thursday?
20:51:20 [anthony]
ED: Might be better to give people time to prepare
20:52:00 [anthony]
DS: We could have it on Monday?
20:52:10 [anthony]
CL: That would also be confusing
20:52:35 [anthony]
DS: We could send an email in advance to let people know
20:53:21 [anthony]
... do we need a new tracker?
20:53:36 [anthony]
CL: Would make things easier
20:54:24 [anthony]
DS: I will try to get a tracker instance set up
20:55:16 [anthony]
ED: Should we try for next Monday then?
20:57:07 [anthony]
DS: Send an email to FX and bcc SVG and CSS and let them know the time
20:57:16 [anthony]
ED: Another question is where the spec would be checked in
20:57:27 [anthony]
DS: Well lets solve that next week
20:58:19 [anthony]
ACTION: Erik to Write up an agenda and send email to the public FX group
20:58:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2738 - Write up an agenda and send email to the public FX group [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-03-08].
20:59:10 [anthony]
Topic: Image Fit and Image Position
20:59:28 [anthony]
ED: There was some discussion in the style group about Image Fit and Image Position
20:59:46 [anthony]
... those properties are suppose to override the preserve aspect ratio
21:00:15 [anthony]
... if you include an SVG using an object element and you don't specify anything at all
21:00:40 [anthony]
... then you'd get a stretched image
21:00:45 [ed]
21:01:43 [anthony]
ED: I think this would break backwards compatibility
21:02:41 [anthony]
CL: I think an email from the chair saying this will break backwards compatibility would be good
21:04:28 [anthony]
DS: Maybe this could be one of things we talk about next Monday
21:05:29 [anthony]
ACTION: Erik to Respond with Working Groups thoughts on image position
21:05:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2739 - Respond with Working Groups thoughts on image position [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-03-08].
21:05:43 [anthony]
ED: What we want is to be able to use it for SVG as well right
21:05:56 [anthony]
... and not break backwards compatible
21:06:44 [anthony]
CL: We should also point out that would also break HTML implementations
21:07:27 [ed]
21:08:06 [anthony]
Topic: Pattern
21:08:22 [anthony]
ED: Was taking a look at some code and came across this problem with patterns
21:08:40 [anthony]
... Not sure if SVG 11 was expecting lots of files to be referenced
21:09:01 [anthony]
... For a pattern in external file the coordinate system needs to be specified
21:09:25 [anthony]
CL: We want people to use libraries of patterns
21:09:52 [anthony]
... the pattern designer doesn't know the coordinate system it's going to be used in
21:10:14 [anthony]
... if you were to take that rect from the first example and paste it in the second example with the #pattern
21:10:36 [anthony]
... the result should work the same if you migrate them to external file
21:10:50 [anthony]
ED: If you put a width and height on the external SVG file
21:11:16 [anthony]
... you could argue that is not a view port
21:11:31 [anthony]
CL: I agree it is good authoring advice to have a viewBox on the element
21:11:42 [anthony]
... but we need to define what happens if you don't
21:11:50 [anthony]
... and that needs to be sensible and reasonable
21:12:01 [anthony]
ED: It only came up because we were doing some bug fixing
21:13:22 [anthony]
CL: You should be able to produce the pattern
21:13:28 [anthony]
... and use that where ever you want
21:13:57 [anthony]
ED: I think in my opinion it would be required to use absolute viewPort in the file
21:14:16 [anthony]
... problem is you can't access the percentages in the pattern
21:14:23 [anthony]
... which would be useful in some cases
21:15:01 [anthony]
CL: We don't have percents on defined, only 'OnUse'
21:17:46 [anthony]
DS: We could make patterns so they overlap in a certain way
21:17:54 [anthony]
CL: That's a new feature
21:18:29 [anthony]
ED: I think Dr Hoffmann is asking about
21:18:47 [ed]
s/is asking about/was asking about this before too/
21:19:50 [anthony]
DS: Rather than change patterns in SVG 2.0
21:19:58 [anthony]
... we could do tiling
21:20:16 [anthony]
... so rather than deprecate them, recognise they are of limited use
21:20:32 [anthony]
CL: Might do the same thing for tiling and map tiling
21:20:52 [anthony]
DS: In mapping each tile is a different resource
21:21:19 [anthony]
... but for a pattern you could have the tiles point to a limited number of resources and have them titled
21:21:29 [anthony]
21:21:35 [shepazu]
(discussion about SVG Tiling and Layering proposal from KDDI... hope they can rejoin)
21:21:44 [shepazu]
ack jwatt
21:22:29 [shepazu]
Issue: allow more advance tiling and pattens in SVG 2.0
21:22:29 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-2310 - Allow more advance tiling and pattens in SVG 2.0 ; please complete additional details at .
21:27:03 [anthony]
ACTION: Chris to Add note to CSS 2 referencing pointing to CSS 2.1
21:27:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2740 - Add note to CSS 2 referencing pointing to CSS 2.1 [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-03-08].
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21:29:05 [Zakim]
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21:29:10 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()3:00PM has ended
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Attendees were Shepazu, ed, ChrisL, anthony, jwatt
21:29:26 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
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21:29:34 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate anthony
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