Chatlog 2010-02-25

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14:39:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
14:39:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/25-rdfa-irc
14:39:27 <manu> trackbot, start telecon
14:39:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:39:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
14:39:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:39:32 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:39:32 <trackbot> Date: 25 February 2010
14:39:52 <manu> Chair: Manu Sporny
14:39:57 <manu> Regrets: Ben Adida
14:41:05 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Feb/0073.html
14:41:22 <manu> Scribe: Shane McCarron
14:43:18 <manu> action-3 due in 1 week
14:43:18 <trackbot> ACTION-3 Get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142 due date now in 1 week
14:57:13 <manu> trackbot, status
14:58:53 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
14:59:00 <Zakim> +Benjamin
14:59:02 <Zakim> +Knud
14:59:08 <Knud> Knud has joined #rdfa
14:59:12 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #rdfa
14:59:19 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:59:19 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:59:20 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:59:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:59:46 <manu> zakim, I am IPcaller
14:59:46 <Zakim> ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:00:01 <RobW> RobW has joined #rdfa
15:00:28 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-work
15:00:28 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:00:29 <Zakim> +Steven
15:00:39 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
15:00:40 <markbirbeck> markbirbeck has joined #rdfa
15:00:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Benjamin, Knud, Ivan, [IPcaller], Steven
15:00:53 <Zakim> +mgylling
15:00:59 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
15:01:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Benjamin, Knud, Ivan, [IPcaller], Steven, mgylling
15:01:17 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
15:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Benjamin, Knud, Ivan, [IPcaller], Steven, mgylling
15:01:42 <manu> trackbot, status
15:01:59 <Zakim> + +1.978.692.aaaa
15:02:08 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?
15:02:08 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck
15:02:22 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:02:22 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:02:29 <manu> zakim, who is making noise?
15:02:30 <Steven> zakim, [IP is Manu
15:02:30 <Zakim> +Manu; got it
15:02:43 <Zakim> manu, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (25%), mgylling (5%), Knud (10%)
15:02:44 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
15:02:55 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Manu (10%), mgylling (10%), Benjamin (9%)
15:03:07 <manu> zakim, mute mgylling
15:03:07 <Zakim> mgylling should now be muted
15:03:21 <Zakim> +Mark_Birbeck
15:03:30 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy
15:03:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is noisy', Steven
15:03:35 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
15:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Benjamin, Knud, Ivan (muted), Manu, Steven, mgylling (muted), +1.978.692.aaaa, Mark_Birbeck
15:03:37 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
15:03:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see markbirbeck, RobW, mgylling, Knud, RRSAgent, Zakim, manu, Steven, Benjamin, ivan, trackbot
15:03:46 <manu> zakim, unmute mgylling
15:03:46 <Zakim> mgylling should no longer be muted
15:03:47 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
15:03:47 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
15:03:47 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Manu (24%), Benjamin (14%), Knud (5%), Mark_Birbeck (5%)
15:04:00 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
15:04:01 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:04:10 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.978.692.aaaa (39%), Knud (39%), Mark_Birbeck (4%), ??P36 (8%)
15:04:12 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is RobW
15:04:13 <Zakim> +RobW; got it
15:04:46 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?
15:04:56 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Manu (39%), mgylling (8%), Knud (22%), Mark_Birbeck (33%)
15:05:06 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Feb/0073.html
15:05:12 <Steven> zakim, mute knud temporarily
15:05:12 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
15:05:27 <Zakim> Knud should now be unmuted again
15:05:36 <Steven> zakim, mute knud
15:05:36 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
15:06:03 <Steven> scribenick: markbirbeck
15:06:21 <markbirbeck> Topic: Action items
15:06:34 <manu> action-3?
15:06:34 <trackbot> ACTION-3 -- Manu Sporny to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142 -- due 2010-02-24 -- OPEN
15:06:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/3
15:06:54 <manu> trackbot, action-3 due in 1 week
15:06:54 <trackbot> ACTION-3 Get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142 due date now in 1 week
15:07:05 <manu> action-4?
15:07:05 <trackbot> ACTION-4 -- Mark Birbeck to generate spec text for @token and @prefix -- due 2010-02-24 -- OPEN
15:07:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/4
15:07:10 <markbirbeck> http://webbackplane.com/mark-birbeck/blog/2010/02/vocabularies-token-bundles-profiles-rdfa
15:07:30 <ivan> q+
15:08:08 <manu> trackbot, comment action-4 proposal at http://webbackplane.com/mark-birbeck/blog/2010/02/vocabularies-token-bundles-profiles-rdfa
15:08:08 <trackbot> ACTION-4 Generate spec text for @token and @prefix notes added
15:08:08 <Steven> ack i
15:08:29 <markbirbeck> Ivan: Could we move the write-ups onto the wiki?
15:09:56 <markbirbeck> Mark_Birbeck: Don't mind. It was more that it didn't work as an email.
15:10:06 <manu> action-5?
15:10:06 <trackbot> ACTION-5 -- Mark Birbeck to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents -- due 2010-02-24 -- OPEN
15:10:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/5
15:10:51 <manu> trackbot, action-4 due in 1 week
15:10:51 <trackbot> ACTION-4 Generate spec text for @token and @prefix due date now in 1 week
15:10:54 <manu> trackbot, action-5 due in 1 week
15:10:54 <trackbot> ACTION-5 Generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents due date now in 1 week
15:11:12 <manu> trackbot, close action-7
15:11:12 <trackbot> ACTION-7 Send Invited Expert proposals to Ivan closed
15:11:25 <ivan> q+
15:12:11 <markbirbeck> Manu: Have proposed Toby Inkster and Benji.
15:12:52 <manu> ACTION: Manu to get Toby to fill out Invited Expert form.
15:12:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Get Toby to fill out Invited Expert form. [on Manu Sporny - due 2010-03-04].
15:12:56 <markbirbeck> ...Benji says he is too busy to take up the Invited Expert position. Also, he says that he wants large changes to RDFa, and doesn't see that happening.
15:13:19 <markbirbeck> Ivan: Toby needs to fill in the IE form.
15:13:26 <markbirbeck> Manu: Will chase.
15:14:19 <markbirbeck> Ivan: What should we do with the issues that Benjamin raised?
15:14:39 <manu> ISSUE-12?
15:14:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Analyze Benji's wishlist and determine if there are suggestions that will improve RDFa -- OPEN
15:14:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/12
15:14:52 <markbirbeck> Manu: Think we should keep the issues. Any other views on that?
15:14:56 <ivan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2010Jan/0065.html
15:15:29 <markbirbeck> Manu: Can we discuss this on the list?
15:15:57 <markbirbeck> Ivan: Some of them are pretty substantial; change attribute names, harmonise with Microdata.
15:16:44 <markbirbeck> Manu: Agree, but the action is to look at the suggestions and see what might be used from there.
15:18:31 <markbirbeck> q+
15:18:36 <manu> ack ivan
15:18:38 <ivan> ack ivan
15:18:51 <manu> ack markbirbeck
15:19:36 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: Maybe we should re-visit ISSUE-12 in a couple of weeks.
15:20:06 <manu> action-8?
15:20:06 <trackbot> ACTION-8 -- Shane McCarron to coordinate with the PFWG on @role and how @role integrates with RDFa -- due 2010-02-26 -- OPEN
15:20:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/8
15:20:39 <Knud> (did we talk about Action-6?)
15:21:24 <manu> ISSUE: Coordinate with PFWG on @role and how @role integrates with RDFa
15:21:24 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-17 - Coordinate with PFWG on @role and how @role integrates with RDFa ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/17/edit .
15:21:44 <markbirbeck> Shane: RDFa needs a way for other groups to be able to add attributes and elements to the list.
15:21:54 <markbirbeck> s/to the list/to the list of supported attributes/
15:22:27 <manu> trackbot, drop action-8
15:22:27 <trackbot> Sorry, manu, I don't understand 'trackbot, drop action-8'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
15:22:32 <manu> trackbot, close action-8
15:22:32 <trackbot> ACTION-8 Coordinate with the PFWG on @role and how @role integrates with RDFa closed
15:22:57 <manu> trackbot, comment action-8 Closed action in favor of creating as ISSUE-17
15:22:58 <trackbot> ACTION-8 Coordinate with the PFWG on @role and how @role integrates with RDFa notes added
15:23:41 <Steven> Yay! RDFa stylesheets!
15:24:05 <manu> action-6?
15:24:05 <trackbot> ACTION-6 -- Shane McCarron to identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them -- due 2010-02-24 -- OPEN
15:24:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/actions/6
15:24:16 <markbirbeck> Shane: Will write up a proposal on how other people might indicate in documents that other attributes are supported.
15:24:21 <manu> trackbot, close action-6
15:24:21 <trackbot> ACTION-6 Identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them closed
15:24:34 <manu> trackbot, comment action-6 it works.
15:24:34 <trackbot> ACTION-6 Identify the requirements for html2ps and see about getting reSpec to support them notes added
15:24:57 <markbirbeck> Topic: Review High-level Work Plan
15:25:00 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/wiki/Work-plan
15:25:42 <markbirbeck> Manu: Very high level proposal on the wiki.
15:26:17 <markbirbeck> ...On the API document we have Benjamin Adrian.
15:26:29 <markbirbeck> ...We probably need other editors -- anyone?
15:26:40 <Steven> q+
15:26:41 <markbirbeck> q+
15:27:01 <manu> ack steven
15:27:40 <markbirbeck> Steven: Ben has experience of working on APIs -- would seem an obvious choice.
15:27:43 <manu> ack markbirbeck
15:27:43 <manu> scribenick: manu
15:28:03 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: I was going to offer my services - I've been working on a Javascript library, so I'm interested.
15:28:32 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: Jenni Tennison has a slightly different notion about the API - sits on top of SPARQL. We may try to harmonize with that work.
15:29:08 <ivan> q+
15:29:52 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: Do we want this in a separate document?
15:29:55 <manu> ack Ivan
15:27:43 <manu> scribenick: markbirbeck
15:30:27 <markbirbeck> Mark_Birbeck: Experience of XForms WG is that if we have 'owners' of work, it tends to create a little fragmentation in the spec.
15:30:53 <markbirbeck> Ivan: True that it's separate in the charter, but might not be a problem to change our minds later. So can defer this.
15:31:07 <manu> q+ to discuss taking the discussion to the mailing list.
15:31:32 <markbirbeck> Mark_Birbeck: Fine.
15:32:34 <markbirbeck> Manu: Could move this to the mailing-list.
15:32:39 <ivan> ack manu
15:32:39 <Zakim> Manu, you wanted to discuss taking the discussion to the mailing list.
15:33:26 <markbirbeck> s/Jenni/Jeni/
15:33:36 <Steven> q+
15:33:56 <manu> ack steven
15:34:01 <markbirbeck> s/different notion about the API/different API that is related/
15:34:35 <Knud> q+
15:34:42 <markbirbeck> Steven: How were people assigned to issues? Randomly?
15:34:45 <manu> ack knud
15:34:46 <Knud> I'm muted
15:35:02 <markbirbeck> Manu: No. I tried to look at issues and who had the skills to address them.
15:35:09 <ivan> q+
15:35:29 <markbirbeck> ...I may have failed, so please comment on whether you think you should be dealing with an issue (and of course, if not).
15:35:35 <manu> ack ivan
15:35:36 <Steven> zakim, mute knud
15:35:37 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
15:35:48 <markbirbeck> Knud: What is the Triple Store API about?
15:36:07 <markbirbeck> Manu: I assigned you because I thought your name came up on that.
15:36:26 <manu> q+ to explain that RDFa triplestore API is /not/ a required piece of work.
15:36:42 <markbirbeck> Ivan: The idea is that rather than having an RDFa-specific API, we could look at something more generic.
15:37:19 <markbirbeck> zakim, mute me
15:37:19 <Zakim> Mark_Birbeck should now be muted
15:37:29 <manu> q-
15:37:51 <manu> zakim, unmute knud
15:37:51 <Zakim> Knud should no longer be muted
15:38:10 <markbirbeck> ...but it's not a required piece of work.
15:38:20 <markbirbeck> Knud: So it's not a generic API, but a JavaScript one?
15:38:26 <markbirbeck> Ivan: Yes, that's right.
15:38:31 <manu> zakim, mute knud
15:38:31 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
15:39:26 <markbirbeck> Ivan: If there are documents that we'd like to be involved in, but not as lead editor, what should we do?
15:39:36 <markbirbeck> Manu: Go ahead and add yourself to the end of the list.
15:39:55 <markbirbeck> Topic: ISSUE-2: Extend RDFa to allow URIs in all RDFa attributes
15:39:57 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/2
15:40:00 <manu> ISSUE-2?
15:40:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 -- Extend RDFa to allow URIs in all RDFa attributes -- OPEN
15:40:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/2
15:42:12 <markbirbeck> Manu: The RDFa TF discussed and voted to support 'URIs anywhere'.
15:42:19 <ivan> q+
15:42:26 <manu> ack ivan
15:42:27 <markbirbeck> ...We need to decide whether we will bring that proposal in.
15:42:59 <markbirbeck> Ivan: Might be worth setting the context.
15:43:20 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me
15:43:21 <Zakim> Mark_Birbeck should no longer be muted
15:43:39 <manu> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2010/ED-rdfa-syntax-20100113/
15:43:51 <manu> That's the latest text.
15:43:20 <markbirbeck> scribenick: manu
15:44:01 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: The key thing is that
15:44:16 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #rdfa
15:44:22 <manu> ... realization that after working on CURIEs and URIs is that you could tell the difference between a CURIE and a URI
15:44:49 <manu> ... basically, if there is a prefix, it's a CURIE
15:44:59 <manu> ... if there isn't a prefix, it's a URI.
15:45:19 <manu> i/Mark_Birbeck: The key thing is that/scribenick: manu
15:45:48 <ivan> q+
15:45:53 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: The motivation for this is that for small pieces of markup, it allows one to just use URIs instead of defining a ton of namespace prefix mappings.
15:46:32 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: It also allows easy cut-and-paste, which is a more overstated problem than it really is, but if you're concerned about that, this goes toward solving that issue.
15:46:55 <manu> Ivan: This is a fairly trivial implementation.
15:47:02 <markbirbeck> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Nov/0081.html
15:47:12 <manu> Ivan: separate issue, how will this change affect values for @resource and @about?
15:47:34 <manu> Ivan: @resource and @about are defined to have URIs or Safe CURIEs, but with the same logic, we can unify all attributes.
15:48:08 <manu> Ivan: let me explain with some markup
15:48:15 <ivan> xmlns="a:xxxxx" resource="a:something"
15:49:13 <manu> Mark_Birbeck: We were warned off of doing that in @href, so that's why we don't support it in @resource.
15:49:28 <ShaneM> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/rdfawg/rdfa-core/
15:49:48 <manu> Ivan: We shouldn't touch @href and @src
15:49:48 <manu> scribenick: markbirbeck
15:50:57 <markbirbeck> Mark_Birbeck: We now use the token 'URIorCURIEs' in the spec, which means it will be everywhere.
15:51:07 <markbirbeck> Shane: Yes, it's already done.
15:51:25 <markbirbeck> Manu: We don't need to agree the solution here, we just need to vote on whether we want this.
15:51:46 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to suggest short names for each working group deliverable by 1 March 2010
15:51:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Suggest short names for each working group deliverable by 1 March 2010 [on Shane McCarron - due 2010-03-04].
15:52:03 <markbirbeck> ...Any other questions on this? Would people feel comfortable doing a staw-poll now?
15:53:08 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add support for full URIs in RDFa attributes where CURIEs are allowed.
15:53:31 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add support for full URIs in RDFa attributes..
15:53:42 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add support for full URIs in RDFa attributes, barring @href and @src.
15:54:03 <Steven> href has full URIs alrady
15:54:34 <markbirbeck> PROPOSAL: Allow both URIs and CURIEs in all RDFa attributes, except @href and @src.
15:54:38 <ivan> PROPOSAL: for all attributes, except @href and @src, both CURIE and URI-s can be used, with priority to the former
15:56:34 <manu> PROPOSAL: Allow both URIs and CURIEs in all RDFa attributes, except @href and @src.
15:56:38 <ivan> +1
15:56:39 <Steven> +1
15:56:41 <ShaneM> +1
15:56:41 <markbirbeck> +1
15:56:42 <RobW> +1
15:56:43 <manu> +1
15:56:45 <mgylling> +1
15:56:47 <Benjamin> +1
15:56:48 <Knud> +1
15:56:59 <manu> RESOLUTION: Allow both URIs and CURIEs in all RDFa attributes, except @href and @src.
15:57:06 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/25-rdfa-minutes.html Steven
15:57:21 <ivan> q+
15:57:27 <manu> ack ivan
15:58:45 <markbirbeck> Topic: Ensuring RDFa WG Resolutions are Reflected in HTML+RDFa
15:58:49 <ShaneM> and I will have a draft RDFa Core document by Monday
15:59:13 <markbirbeck> Ivan: How do resolutions such as this work their way into the HTML 5 version of the draft?
15:59:14 <markbirbeck> Manu: In 3-4 months, after we publish RDFa Core 1.1, HTML+RDFa will normatively refer to RDFa Core 1.1. Because it normatively refers to RDFa Core 1.1, the resolution we just passed will be included by reference in HTML+RDFa (and thus, be valid in XHTML+RDFa, HTML4+RDFa and HTML5+RDFa markup).
15:59:16 <manu> ISSUE-11?
15:59:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 -- Determine if there is a subset of popular prefix declarations that should be enabled in all RDFa Processors -- OPEN
15:59:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/11
16:00:24 <Zakim> -RobW
16:00:27 <RobW> RobW has left #rdfa
16:00:28 <Zakim> -mgylling
16:00:34 <Zakim> -Knud
16:00:40 <Zakim> -Steven
16:00:46 <Zakim> -Mark_Birbeck
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