13:18:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/06-rdfa-irc ←
13:18:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:18:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
13:18:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 42 minutes ←
13:18:22 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:18:22 <trackbot> Date: 06 September 2012
14:00:15 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
(No events recorded for 41 minutes)
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:00:18 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:00:23 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
14:00:26 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:01:00 <Zakim> +scor
Zakim IRC Bot: +scor ←
14:01:24 <Zakim> +??P36
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P36 ←
14:01:27 <niklasl> zakim, I am ??P36
Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P36 ←
14:01:32 <Zakim> +niklasl; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +niklasl; got it ←
14:01:55 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
14:01:57 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P0
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P0 ←
14:01:57 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it ←
14:02:44 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←
14:02:51 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me ←
14:02:52 <manu1> zakim, who is on the phone?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:02:52 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:03:08 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
14:03:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, scor, niklasl, manu1, MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ivan, scor, niklasl, manu1, MacTed ←
14:03:14 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
14:04:25 <ivan> scribenick: ivan
(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)
14:04:29 <ivan> scribe: Ivan
14:04:32 <ivan> chair: Manu
14:04:34 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Sep/0000.html
14:05:05 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:05:37 <manu1> Topic: FPWD for HTML+RDFa 1.1
14:05:41 <scor> q+ (after FPWD)
Stéphane Corlosquet: q+ (after FPWD) ←
14:05:44 <Zakim> +McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←
14:05:47 <ivan> ivan: new charter is approved
Ivan Herman: new charter is approved ←
14:06:24 <manu1> ivan: Since this is a new charter with new deliverables, with patent policy issues - everyone is required to rejoin the group within 45 days.
Ivan Herman: Since this is a new charter with new deliverables, with patent policy issues - everyone is required to rejoin the group within 45 days. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:06:26 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:06:50 <manu1> ivan: It's an administrative issue, but we need to do this.
Ivan Herman: It's an administrative issue, but we need to do this. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:07:53 <manu1> New draft for HTML+RDFa that is ready for FPWD: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/WD-rdfa-in-html-20120911/
Manu Sporny: New draft for HTML+RDFa that is ready for FPWD: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/WD-rdfa-in-html-20120911/ ←
14:09:14 <manu1> ivan: I need to look at the status section, I'll do that later today.
Ivan Herman: I need to look at the status section, I'll do that later today. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:14:32 <manu1> ivan: Well, I just looked at the status of the document, it's fine as-is. So, next step is to do a formal transition request.
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Ivan Herman: Well, I just looked at the status of the document, it's fine as-is. So, next step is to do a formal transition request. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:14:48 <manu1> ivan: I already talked with Thomas, we can use the same short name, so that's clear.
Ivan Herman: I already talked with Thomas, we can use the same short name, so that's clear. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:16:51 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Publish HTML+RDFa 1.1 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/WD-rdfa-in-html-20120911/ ) as a First Public Working Draft on Tuesday, September 11th 2012.
PROPOSED: Publish HTML+RDFa 1.1 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/WD-rdfa-in-html-20120911/ ) as a First Public Working Draft on Tuesday, September 11th 2012. ←
14:16:54 <ivan> +1
+1 ←
14:16:55 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
14:16:56 <manu1> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
14:16:57 <niklasl> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
14:17:11 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
14:17:14 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:17:16 <ivan> RESOLVED: Publish HTML+RDFa 1.1 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/WD-rdfa-in-html-20120911/ ) as a First Public Working Draft on Tuesday, September 11th 2012.
RESOLVED: Publish HTML+RDFa 1.1 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2012/WD-rdfa-in-html-20120911/ ) as a First Public Working Draft on Tuesday, September 11th 2012. ←
14:17:39 <ivan> ISSUE-140?
14:17:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-140 -- How is the OBJECT element processed when containing the @data attribute? -- pending review
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-140 -- How is the OBJECT element processed when containing the @data attribute? -- pending review ←
14:17:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/140
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/140 ←
14:17:41 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-140: OBJECT and @data attribute
14:17:48 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/140
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/140 ←
14:18:06 <ivan> manu1: whether or not we should process @data on the object element
Manu Sporny: whether or not we should process @data on the object element ←
14:18:11 <ivan> … if yes, what are the results
… if yes, what are the results ←
14:18:19 <ivan> … gregg did an overview
… gregg did an overview ←
14:18:35 <ivan> … he said last year we resolved
… he said last year we resolved ←
14:18:46 <ivan> …. not to support the attribute
…. not to support the attribute ←
14:18:54 <ivan> … the test manifest comments this one out
… the test manifest comments this one out ←
14:18:59 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:19:12 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:20:17 <ivan> ivan: is the @data/object still out?
Ivan Herman: is the @data/object still out? ←
14:20:30 <ivan> manu: the idea was to use different media elements in the browsers
Manu Sporny: the idea was to use different media elements in the browsers ←
14:20:46 <ivan> … today we have audio and video elements, those are the attributes that take over the object
… today we have audio and video elements, those are the attributes that take over the object ←
14:20:52 <ivan> … it is still used for plugins
… it is still used for plugins ←
14:21:00 <ivan> … but with the big push against plugins
… but with the big push against plugins ←
14:21:12 <ivan> … then I think that still holds
… then I think that still holds ←
14:21:23 <ivan> … so html5 is getting rid of objects this way
… so html5 is getting rid of objects this way ←
14:21:31 <niklasl> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:21:33 <ivan> … anyone knows anything else?
… anyone knows anything else? ←
14:21:35 <manu1> ivan: The argument that we used to not support @data - the usage of the @data attribute and OBJECT element is on its way out - argument made by you, Manu.
Ivan Herman: The argument that we used to not support @data - the usage of the @data attribute and OBJECT element is on its way out - argument made by you, Manu. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:21:41 <manu1> ack niklasl
Manu Sporny: ack niklasl ←
14:21:42 <ivan> ack niklasl
ack niklasl ←
14:22:05 <ivan> niklasl: I think it makes sense, the @data attribute was around for a long time and we did not need it in xhtml1.1 either
Niklas Lindström: I think it makes sense, the @data attribute was around for a long time and we did not need it in xhtml1.1 either ←
14:22:11 <ivan> +1 to niklasl
+1 to niklasl ←
14:22:24 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Do not support the @data attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1.
PROPOSED: Do not support the @data attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1. ←
14:22:25 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
14:22:27 <ivan> +1
+1 ←
14:22:28 <manu1> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
14:22:29 <niklasl> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
14:22:31 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:22:32 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
14:22:34 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
14:22:38 <ivan> RESOLVED: Do not support the @data attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1.
RESOLVED: Do not support the @data attribute in HTML+RDFa 1.1. ←
14:22:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-140 How is the OBJECT element processed when containing the @data attribute? closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-140 How is the OBJECT element processed when containing the @data attribute? closed ←
14:22:56 <ivan> issue-141?
14:22:56 <trackbot> ISSUE-141 -- How many of the possible datatypes for @datetime should be supported? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-141 -- How many of the possible datatypes for @datetime should be supported? -- open ←
14:22:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/141
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/141 ←
14:23:14 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-141: Datatypes for @datetime
14:23:44 <Zakim> -McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron ←
14:23:49 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/141
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/141 ←
14:24:06 <ivan> manu: these are the time related types that we support
Manu Sporny: these are the time related types that we support ←
14:24:18 <ivan> … gregg mentioned a number of resolutions
… gregg mentioned a number of resolutions ←
14:24:40 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Aug/0002.html Gregg's analysis and list of types
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Aug/0002.html Gregg's analysis and list of types ←
14:25:04 <ivan> … we also resolved that the text content in the absence of a day-time attribute is used
… we also resolved that the text content in the absence of a day-time attribute is used ←
14:25:13 <ivan> … the test suite has all the necessary tests already
… the test suite has all the necessary tests already ←
14:25:20 <ivan> … it is consistent with html5
… it is consistent with html5 ←
14:25:40 <ivan> … the suite also looks also at the inner text of the elements
… the suite also looks also at the inner text of the elements ←
14:25:50 <ivan> … 3 out of 4 passes these tests, too
… 3 out of 4 passes these tests, too ←
14:26:05 <ivan> … the issue seems to be resolved
… the issue seems to be resolved ←
14:26:12 <ivan> … any other input on this?
… any other input on this? ←
14:26:27 <ivan> (silence)
(silence) ←
14:27:04 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Support processing the @datetime attribute and the contents of the TIME element. Support the following datatypes: xsd:date, xsd:time, xsd:dateTime, xsd:duration, xsd:gYear, and xsd:gYearMonth.
PROPOSED: Support processing the @datetime attribute and the contents of the TIME element. Support the following datatypes: xsd:date, xsd:time, xsd:dateTime, xsd:duration, xsd:gYear, and xsd:gYearMonth. ←
14:27:12 <manu1> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
14:27:13 <ivan> +1
+1 ←
14:27:14 <niklasl> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
14:27:17 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
14:27:31 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
14:27:40 <ivan> RESOLVED: Support processing the @datetime attribute and the contents of the TIME element. Support the following datatypes: xsd:date, xsd:time, xsd:dateTime, xsd:duration, xsd:gYear, and xsd:gYearMonth.
RESOLVED: Support processing the @datetime attribute and the contents of the TIME element. Support the following datatypes: xsd:date, xsd:time, xsd:dateTime, xsd:duration, xsd:gYear, and xsd:gYearMonth. ←
14:27:53 <manu1> gkellogg: +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:28:13 <ivan> ISSUE-137?
14:28:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-137 -- HTML+RDFa should normatively declare media types and describe how to identify relative to XHTML+RDFa 1.1 -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-137 -- HTML+RDFa should normatively declare media types and describe how to identify relative to XHTML+RDFa 1.1 -- open ←
14:28:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/137
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/137 ←
14:28:32 <Zakim> +McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←
14:28:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-137 -- HTML+RDFa should normatively declare media types and describe how to identify relative to XHTML+RDFa 1.1 -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-137 -- HTML+RDFa should normatively declare media types and describe how to identify relative to XHTML+RDFa 1.1 -- open ←
14:28:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/137
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/137 ←
14:28:50 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-137: Normative media types for HTML+RDFa
14:29:00 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/137
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/137 ←
14:29:52 <ivan> manu: shane made a quick review, the current text already says that html+rdfa1 should be labeled text/html
Manu Sporny: shane made a quick review, the current text already says that html+rdfa1 should be labeled text/html ←
14:30:11 <ivan> … there is also a text on the usage of @version (even if it is non comforting per html5)
… there is also a text on the usage of @version (even if it is non comforting per html5) ←
14:30:48 <ivan> … processors must read the content of @version and use it to switch; if the value is not correct then the latest version of rdfa1.1 should be used
… processors must read the content of @version and use it to switch; if the value is not correct then the latest version of rdfa1.1 should be used ←
14:30:58 <ivan> … a non-normative text should be added:
… a non-normative text should be added: ←
14:31:19 <ivan> "Note: Some processors may not be able to detect the media type of the
"Note: Some processors may not be able to detect the media type of the ←
14:31:19 <ivan> document being processed because of system limitations. In these cases
document being processed because of system limitations. In these cases ←
14:31:20 <ivan> the default processing rules in [RDFA-CORE] [2] section 4.1 - RDFa
the default processing rules in [RDFA-CORE] [2] section 4.1 - RDFa ←
14:31:21 <ivan> Processor Conformance - take precedence."
Processor Conformance - take precedence." ←
14:32:08 <ivan> manu: the problem is that this may not answer Alex's concern
Manu Sporny: the problem is that this may not answer Alex's concern ←
14:32:18 <ivan> … but the previous texts may answer
… but the previous texts may answer ←
14:32:36 <ivan> ... the spec says something about non-xml mode
... the spec says something about non-xml mode ←
14:32:44 <ivan> … does it say something about xhtml5?
… does it say something about xhtml5? ←
14:32:57 <ivan> (manu looks up spec text)
(manu looks up spec text) ←
14:33:06 <ivan> shane: I do not think there is a text there
Shane McCarron: I do not think there is a text there ←
14:33:21 <ivan> … I wanted to avoid normative text
… I wanted to avoid normative text ←
14:33:42 <ivan> manu: do we actually state this in rdfa1.1 core
Manu Sporny: do we actually state this in rdfa1.1 core ←
14:34:02 <ivan> ivan: I do not think so
Ivan Herman: I do not think so ←
14:34:34 <ivan> manu: going back to the original issue
Manu Sporny: going back to the original issue ←
14:34:48 <ivan> … the spec specifies for text/html
… the spec specifies for text/html ←
14:35:03 <ivan> … but there is no mention for application/xhtml+xml
… but there is no mention for application/xhtml+xml ←
14:35:14 <ivan> … alex proposes a text:
… alex proposes a text: ←
14:35:23 <ivan> "HTML+RDFa documents should be labeled with Internet Media Types "text/html" or "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]."
"HTML+RDFa documents should be labeled with Internet Media Types "text/html" or "application/xhtml+xml" as defined in [RFC3236]." ←
14:35:37 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:36:10 <ivan> manu: the problem is with xhtml
Manu Sporny: the problem is with xhtml ←
14:36:28 <ivan> … can we say something about the choice xhtml1.1 and xhtml5
… can we say something about the choice xhtml1.1 and xhtml5 ←
14:36:42 <ivan> shane: core says you must use a media type
Shane McCarron: core says you must use a media type ←
14:36:59 <ivan> … if you cannot use a media type then you can do something else
… if you cannot use a media type then you can do something else ←
14:37:10 <niklasl> from rdfa 1.1. core: A conforming RDFa Processor may use additional mechanisms (e.g., the DOCTYPE, a file extension, the root element, an overriding user-defined parameter) to attempt to determine the Host Language if the media type is unavailable. These mechanisms are unspecified.
Niklas Lindström: from rdfa 1.1. core: A conforming RDFa Processor may use additional mechanisms (e.g., the DOCTYPE, a file extension, the root element, an overriding user-defined parameter) to attempt to determine the Host Language if the media type is unavailable. These mechanisms are unspecified. ←
14:37:13 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:38:33 <manu1> ivan: RDFa 1.1 Core does say what Niklas' put in IRC. I can understand Alex's issue because I've hit this issue myself. What I do right now is I try to look at the DOCTYPE of the XHTML5 document, if the doctype is one of the DTDs that we have specified for RDFa 1.0 or RDFa 1.1, then I fall back on that type of document, otherwise I do XHTML5. The @version attribute is a different question...
Ivan Herman: RDFa 1.1 Core does say what Niklas' put in IRC. I can understand Alex's issue because I've hit this issue myself. What I do right now is I try to look at the DOCTYPE of the XHTML5 document, if the doctype is one of the DTDs that we have specified for RDFa 1.0 or RDFa 1.1, then I fall back on that type of document, otherwise I do XHTML5. The @version attribute is a different question... [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:38:35 <manu1> ...here, it may switch between RDFa 1.0 and RDFa 1.1.
Manu Sporny: ...here, it may switch between RDFa 1.0 and RDFa 1.1. ←
14:39:43 <manu1> ivan: However, that's not what we're talking about... we're talking about what the host language is. The text that Alex proposes is fine, but it's not enough.
Ivan Herman: However, that's not what we're talking about... we're talking about what the host language is. The text that Alex proposes is fine, but it's not enough. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:41:51 <manu1> ivan: for XHTML - first, we need to look at the Media Type and see that it's 'application/xhtml+xml'. Second, we look at the DTD, if there is one - if it's one we have defined for XHTML1+RDFa 1.1 or XHTML1+RDFa 1.0, we use that. If that does not match, it is XHTML5.
Ivan Herman: for XHTML - first, we need to look at the Media Type and see that it's 'application/xhtml+xml'. Second, we look at the DTD, if there is one - if it's one we have defined for XHTML1+RDFa 1.1 or XHTML1+RDFa 1.0, we use that. If that does not match, it is XHTML5. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:42:04 <manu1> ivan: I think that's an unambiguous algorithm, that's what we should say.
Ivan Herman: I think that's an unambiguous algorithm, that's what we should say. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:43:04 <ivan> shane: the core spec is consistent with this
Shane McCarron: the core spec is consistent with this ←
14:43:30 <ivan> … this extra detail sounds normative to me
… this extra detail sounds normative to me ←
14:43:41 <ivan> … would it change the behavior of an existing document?
… would it change the behavior of an existing document? ←
14:44:05 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:44:41 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:45:54 <manu1> ivan: I can live with the rules that are above - if you have a document that uses the correct DTD, there won't be any change for those documents.
Ivan Herman: I can live with the rules that are above - if you have a document that uses the correct DTD, there won't be any change for those documents. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:46:03 <manu1> ivan: We are fine as far as that's concerned.
Ivan Herman: We are fine as far as that's concerned. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:47:49 <niklasl> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:48:32 <manu1> shane: What happens when a badly authored XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document (without a doctype or @version) that is using XHTML1 terms gets processed with these new rules?
Shane McCarron: What happens when a badly authored XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document (without a doctype or @version) that is using XHTML1 terms gets processed with these new rules? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:48:40 <manu1> manu: The terms are dropped.
Manu Sporny: The terms are dropped. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:48:45 <manu1> shane: Yes, that's my concern.
Shane McCarron: Yes, that's my concern. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:49:06 <manu1> ivan: Well, the sad truth is that this is not defined behavior today, I spent some time figuring out how to do this correctly.
Ivan Herman: Well, the sad truth is that this is not defined behavior today, I spent some time figuring out how to do this correctly. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:49:40 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:49:40 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
14:49:41 <manu1> shane: As long as we're doing this with out eyes open, I'm okay with it. These badly authored documents will have their terms dropped.
Shane McCarron: As long as we're doing this with out eyes open, I'm okay with it. These badly authored documents will have their terms dropped. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:50:04 <manu1> ack niklasl
Manu Sporny: ack niklasl ←
14:50:04 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
14:50:05 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
14:50:06 <ivan> ted: if you were sloppy generating the document, that is what you get, so do not be sloppy...
Ted Thibodeau: if you were sloppy generating the document, that is what you get, so do not be sloppy... ←
14:50:16 <ivan> niklasl: that sounds adequate to me as well
Niklas Lindström: that sounds adequate to me as well ←
14:51:54 <ivan> niklasl: what about using xmlns as a switch?
Niklas Lindström: what about using xmlns as a switch? ←
14:52:03 <ivan> ivan: that is legal in xhml5
Ivan Herman: that is legal in xhml5 ←
14:52:20 <ivan> shane: what about @version attribute
Shane McCarron: what about @version attribute ←
14:52:27 <ivan> … that has defined values for our processor
… that has defined values for our processor ←
14:53:20 <ivan> manu: that would allow authors to use a non-dtd based mechanism for switching
Manu Sporny: that would allow authors to use a non-dtd based mechanism for switching ←
14:53:41 <ivan> … but we are getting into rathole a.k.a. sniffing
… but we are getting into rathole a.k.a. sniffing ←
14:53:54 <ivan> … would anyone object to use ivan's attribute?
… would anyone object to use ivan's algorithm? ←
14:54:03 <ivan> s/attribute/algorithm/
14:54:13 <ivan> manu1: we cannot use the @version,
Manu Sporny: we cannot use the @version, ←
14:54:44 <ivan> … if we put in value for xhtml5+rdfa.1.1 for the value, that would lead to problems with the html wg, because we'd add a new attribute
… if we put in value for xhtml5+rdfa.1.1 for the value, that would lead to problems with the html wg, because we'd add a new attribute ←
14:55:03 <ivan> … if we refer to the value referring to xhtml1.1
… if we refer to the value referring to xhtml1.1 ←
14:55:45 <ivan> shane: you suggest that we do not have the option to define a string for the @version attribute to define xhtml5
Shane McCarron: you suggest that we do not have the option to define a string for the @version attribute to define xhtml5 ←
14:56:14 <ivan> … I always thought we could do that...
… I always thought we could do that... ←
14:56:45 <ivan> manu: I wonder whether this is an issue for javascript processors at all
Manu Sporny: I wonder whether this is an issue for javascript processors at all ←
14:56:56 <ivan> … is there a difference between that
… is there a difference between that ←
14:56:57 <niklasl> .. according to this, js can get at the doctype: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6088972/get-doctype-of-an-html-as-string-with-javascript
Niklas Lindström: .. according to this, js can get at the doctype: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6088972/get-doctype-of-an-html-as-string-with-javascript ←
14:57:16 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:57:40 <manu1> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:00:50 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Add normative text that specifies how to detect an XHTML+RDFa document in HTML+RDFa 1.1. The algorithm is to first, look at the Media Type and see that it's 'application/xhtml+xml'. Second, look at the DTD, if there is one - if it's one we have defined for XHTML1+RDFa 1.1 or XHTML1+RDFa 1.0, we use that. If that does not match, it is XHTML5. Place a warning in the spec stating that documents that don't contain a DTD, don't have @version, and are served as XHTML will default to XHTML5.
PROPOSED: Add normative text that specifies how to detect an XHTML+RDFa document in HTML+RDFa 1.1. The algorithm is to first, look at the Media Type and see that it's 'application/xhtml+xml'. Second, look at the DTD, if there is one - if it's one we have defined for XHTML1+RDFa 1.1 or XHTML1+RDFa 1.0, we use that. If that does not match, it is XHTML5. Place a warning in the spec stating that documents that don't contain a DTD, don't have @version, and are served as XHTML will default to XHTML5. ←
15:01:07 <ivan> +1
+1 ←
15:01:09 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:01:12 <manu1> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:01:16 <scor> +1
Stéphane Corlosquet: +1 ←
15:01:17 <niklasl> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
15:01:22 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:01:31 <manu1> shane: Make sure to point this back to the relevant sections of RDFa Core 1.1
Shane McCarron: Make sure to point this back to the relevant sections of RDFa Core 1.1 [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:01:35 <manu1> gkellogg: +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:01:37 <manu1> RESOLVED: Add normative text that specifies how to detect an XHTML+RDFa document in HTML+RDFa 1.1. The algorithm is to first, look at the Media Type and see that it's 'application/xhtml+xml'. Second, look at the DTD, if there is one - if it's one we have defined for XHTML1+RDFa 1.1 or XHTML1+RDFa 1.0, we use that. If that does not match, it is XHTML5. Place a warning in the spec stating that documents that don't contain a DTD, don't have @version, and are served as XHTML will default to XHTML5.
RESOLVED: Add normative text that specifies how to detect an XHTML+RDFa document in HTML+RDFa 1.1. The algorithm is to first, look at the Media Type and see that it's 'application/xhtml+xml'. Second, look at the DTD, if there is one - if it's one we have defined for XHTML1+RDFa 1.1 or XHTML1+RDFa 1.0, we use that. If that does not match, it is XHTML5. Place a warning in the spec stating that documents that don't contain a DTD, don't have @version, and are served as XHTML will default to XHTML5. ←
15:02:36 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:02:51 <ShaneM> q+ to talk about the Role Attribute
Shane McCarron: q+ to talk about the Role Attribute ←
15:03:07 <manu1> Topic: RDFa to JSON-LD implementation
15:03:26 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
15:04:01 <manu1> niklasl: My implementation (in CoffeeScript) of an RDFa to JSON-LD processor is going well. Not too complicated to implement.
Niklas Lindström: My implementation (in CoffeeScript) of an RDFa to JSON-LD processor is going well. Not too complicated to implement. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:04:14 <manu1> niklasl: It ties what you ask for back to elements in the DOM, which is what the Microdata API does.
Niklas Lindström: It ties what you ask for back to elements in the DOM, which is what the Microdata API does. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:04:26 <manu1> niklasl: So, it computes views for the data in the document.
Niklas Lindström: So, it computes views for the data in the document. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:04:48 <niklasl> https://github.com/niklasl/rdfa-lab/wiki
Niklas Lindström: https://github.com/niklasl/rdfa-lab/wiki ←
15:05:22 <manu1> manu: When will it be production-ready?
Manu Sporny: When will it be production-ready? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:06:13 <manu1> niklasl: Well, the issue is that the API is something I've created... it will be production ready once four test cases are fixed. The body of the logic and the API shouldn't be considered stable - the outer parts will be just as usable as green turtle implementation. Really, we need to hammer out the RDFa DOM API.
Niklas Lindström: Well, the issue is that the API is something I've created... it will be production ready once four test cases are fixed. The body of the logic and the API shouldn't be considered stable - the outer parts will be just as usable as green turtle implementation. Really, we need to hammer out the RDFa DOM API. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:06:22 <manu1> Topic: Role Attribute spec
15:07:05 <manu1> shaneM: The @role attribute spec went into CR and has come out without receiving any comments. There are a number of RDFa processors that have done @role attribute processing. I want to encourage implementers to add support for it. There are tests for it in the RDFa Test Suite. I'm doing an implementation report now.
Shane McCarron: The @role attribute spec went into CR and has come out without receiving any comments. There are a number of RDFa processors that have done @role attribute processing. I want to encourage implementers to add support for it. There are tests for it in the RDFa Test Suite. I'm doing an implementation report now. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:07:23 <manu1> shanem: So, there are enough implementations that do it to get out of CR.
Shane McCarron: So, there are enough implementations that do it to get out of CR. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:07:36 <manu1> manu: I intend to add support when I can.
Manu Sporny: I intend to add support when I can. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:07:44 <manu1> shanem: PyRDFa and Ruby distiller support it.
Shane McCarron: PyRDFa and Ruby distiller support it. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:08:05 <manu1> shanem: Who did the clojure one? Niklas.
Shane McCarron: Who did the clojure one? Niklas. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:08:15 <manu1> shanem: If you want to add support, that would be great.
Shane McCarron: If you want to add support, that would be great. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:09:00 <Zakim> -McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: -McCarron ←
15:09:02 <Zakim> -manu1
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu1 ←
15:09:03 <Zakim> -scor
Zakim IRC Bot: -scor ←
15:09:07 <Zakim> -niklasl
Zakim IRC Bot: -niklasl ←
15:09:07 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←
15:09:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan, scor, niklasl, manu1, MacTed, McCarron
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ivan, scor, niklasl, manu1, MacTed, McCarron ←
15:09:09 <manu1> niklasl: since this is element-centric, it makes most sense to put it there. You can navigate the DOM by @role, which is exactly what it's used for.
Niklas Lindström: since this is element-centric, it makes most sense to put it there. You can navigate the DOM by @role, which is exactly what it's used for. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-09-06 16:29:25 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor changes before publication.'