13:55:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-rdfa-irc ←
13:55:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:55:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
13:55:36 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:55:36 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2011
13:55:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
13:55:42 <manu1> Guest: Niklas (lindstream) Lindström
13:56:20 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Sep/0102.html
13:56:37 <manu1> Chair: Manu
14:01:15 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
14:01:22 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aaaa ←
14:01:31 <Knud> zakim, I am +aaaa
Knud Möller: zakim, I am +aaaa ←
14:01:31 <Zakim> sorry, Knud, I do not see a party named '+aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Knud, I do not see a party named '+aaaa' ←
14:01:39 <Zakim> +??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34 ←
14:01:41 <Knud> zakim, I am aaaa
Knud Möller: zakim, I am aaaa ←
14:01:41 <Zakim> +Knud; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud; got it ←
14:01:45 <Knud> zakim, mute me
Knud Möller: zakim, mute me ←
14:01:45 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted ←
14:01:54 <lindstream> zakim, I am ??P34
Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P34 ←
14:01:54 <Zakim> +lindstream; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +lindstream; got it ←
14:02:05 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
14:02:16 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P37
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P37 ←
14:02:17 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
14:02:18 <Zakim> +??P39
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P39 ←
14:02:21 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P39
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P39 ←
14:02:21 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it ←
14:02:39 <Zakim> + +68185775aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +68185775aabb ←
14:02:47 <SebastianGermesin> Zakim, I am aabb
Sebastian Germesin: Zakim, I am aabb ←
14:02:47 <Zakim> +SebastianGermesin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SebastianGermesin; got it ←
14:03:46 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:03:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see Knud (muted), lindstream, gkellogg, manu1, SebastianGermesin
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Knud (muted), lindstream, gkellogg, manu1, SebastianGermesin ←
14:04:26 <manu1> Scribe: Knud
(Scribe set to Knud Möller)
14:04:44 <Knud> manu: updates to the agenda?
Manu Sporny: updates to the agenda? ←
14:05:03 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:07:28 <Knud> … talked with Jeni Tennison in HTML data TF
… talked with Jeni Tennison in HTML data TF ←
14:08:00 <Knud> … we believe that RDFa 1.1 fulfils what this group wants
… we believe that RDFa 1.1 fulfils what this group wants ←
14:09:10 <Knud> … Is test-suite up to date?
… Is test-suite up to date? ←
14:09:41 <Knud> Greg: suite has been updated recently, should be pretty much up to date
Gregg Kellogg: suite has been updated recently, should be pretty much up to date ←
14:09:56 <Knud> … there are still RDFa 1.0 tests in there - should they remain?
… there are still RDFa 1.0 tests in there - should they remain? ←
14:11:22 <gkellogg> Core rdfa-test-suite updated, not my own.
Gregg Kellogg: Core rdfa-test-suite updated, not my own. ←
14:11:34 <Steven> q+
Steven Pemberton: q+ ←
14:12:22 <Knud> steven: I'm on ODF technical committee. ODF 1.2 is about to become standard.
Steven Pemberton: I'm on ODF technical committee. ODF 1.2 is about to become standard. ←
14:12:23 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:12:30 <manu1> ack Steven
Manu Sporny: ack Steven ←
14:12:33 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:12:34 <Knud> … there will be a short quote about RDFa and XForms in it
… there will be a short quote about RDFa and XForms in it ←
14:13:07 <Knud> lindstream: did anybody look closer at rNews inclusion in schema.org?
Niklas Lindström: did anybody look closer at rNews inclusion in schema.org? ←
14:13:31 <Knud> manu: not in detail
Manu Sporny: not in detail ←
14:14:26 <Knud> lindstream: wondering if rNews will change to use MicroData instead of RDFa
Niklas Lindström: wondering if rNews will change to use MicroData instead of RDFa ←
14:14:47 <manu1> ACTION: Manu to ask IPTC what status of RDFa support for rNews will be in the future.
ACTION: Manu to ask IPTC what status of RDFa support for rNews will be in the future. ←
14:14:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - Ask IPTC what status of RDFa support for rNews will be in the future. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-10-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-95 - Ask IPTC what status of RDFa support for rNews will be in the future. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-10-06]. ←
14:14:53 <Knud> manu: I'll ask Evan and others in IPTC about that
Manu Sporny: I'll ask Evan and others in IPTC about that ←
14:15:08 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-108: Refine/deprecate Link relations
14:15:30 <Knud> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/108 ←
14:16:04 <Knud> manu: someone needs to do this - any volunteers?
Manu Sporny: someone needs to do this - any volunteers? ←
14:16:04 <Knud> No volunteers, postpone until next time.
No volunteers, postpone until next time. ←
14:16:33 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-104: link/meta in HTML5 flow content
14:16:41 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/104
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/104 ←
14:17:04 <Knud> manu: this is not something we need to address in this WG
Manu Sporny: this is not something we need to address in this WG ←
14:17:41 <Knud> … some old browser versions will move link and meta statements from body to head, messing up your markup
… some old browser versions will move link and meta statements from body to head, messing up your markup ←
14:17:51 <Steven> q+
Steven Pemberton: q+ ←
14:18:06 <manu1> ack Steven
Manu Sporny: ack Steven ←
14:18:07 <Steven> Nice to see HTML5 discovering XHTML2 features
Steven Pemberton: Nice to see HTML5 discovering XHTML2 features ←
14:19:06 <Knud> steven: it doesn't matter to us. Our rules will work anyway.
Steven Pemberton: it doesn't matter to us. Our rules will work anyway. ←
14:19:15 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:19:29 <Knud> manu: but a JS implementation might not work in old browsers
Manu Sporny: but a JS implementation might not work in old browsers ←
14:19:33 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:20:00 <Knud> gkellog: isn't this an issue for the HTML WG?
Gregg Kellogg: isn't this an issue for the HTML WG? ←
14:20:43 <Knud> manu: yes, but we should make a decision and then I can raise it in the HTML WG.
Manu Sporny: yes, but we should make a decision and then I can raise it in the HTML WG. ←
14:21:18 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:22:03 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:22:18 <Knud> gkellog: HTML WG needs to take a stand on this
Gregg Kellogg: HTML WG needs to take a stand on this ←
14:22:42 <Knud> lindstream: didn't Jeni already raise this with HTML WG? Shouldn't we just back her on this?
Niklas Lindström: didn't Jeni already raise this with HTML WG? Shouldn't we just back her on this? ←
14:23:44 <Knud> manu: based on our discussion here, I can raise this in HTML WG? Propose to have this in the HTML 5 spec, instead of just in the MicroData spec. I personally don't like the use of LINK and META in the body of the document.
Manu Sporny: based on our discussion here, I can raise this in HTML WG? Propose to have this in the HTML 5 spec, instead of just in the MicroData spec. I personally don't like the use of LINK and META in the body of the document. ←
14:23:46 <gkellogg> PROPOSAL: The RDFWA WG supports the use of link & meta in the body of HTML5 documents.
PROPOSED: The RDFWA WG supports the use of link & meta in the body of HTML5 documents. ←
14:24:52 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:26:23 <lindstream> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
14:26:24 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
14:26:26 <SebastianGermesin> +1
Sebastian Germesin: +1 ←
14:26:26 <Steven> +1
Steven Pemberton: +1 ←
14:26:28 <Knud> Knud: +1
Knud Möller: +1 ←
14:26:29 <manu1> -1 (but don't feel strongly about it)
Manu Sporny: -1 (but don't feel strongly about it) ←
14:26:44 <manu1> RESOLVED: The RDFWA WG supports the use of link & meta in the body of HTML5 documents.
RESOLVED: The RDFWA WG supports the use of link & meta in the body of HTML5 documents. ←
14:27:28 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:27:52 <manu1> ACTION: Manu to push issue with HTML WG on LINK/META elements in body.
ACTION: Manu to push issue with HTML WG on LINK/META elements in body. ←
14:27:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-96 - Push issue with HTML WG on LINK/META elements in body. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-10-06].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-96 - Push issue with HTML WG on LINK/META elements in body. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-10-06]. ←
14:28:13 <Knud> lindstream: we should mention somewhere that hidden data is hard to maintain, and RDFa focuses on visible data
Niklas Lindström: we should mention somewhere that hidden data is hard to maintain, and RDFa focuses on visible data ←
14:28:14 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:28:19 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:28:38 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:29:57 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-101: RDF 1.1 and plain literals
14:30:06 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/101
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/101 ←
14:30:35 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:33:41 <Knud> lindstream: we should get some more input from RDF WG on how this should be handled
Niklas Lindström: we should get some more input from RDF WG on how this should be handled ←
14:36:11 <lindstream> q+ :)
Niklas Lindström: q+ :) ←
14:36:28 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:36:28 <Zakim> lindstream, you wanted to say )
Zakim IRC Bot: lindstream, you wanted to say ) ←
14:36:49 <Knud> lindstream: we are conflating two issues: what the test suite should check for and ... what a serialization should do
Niklas Lindström: we are conflating two issues: what the test suite should check for and ... what a serialization should do ←
14:39:29 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
14:40:00 <manu1> ack gkellogg
Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg ←
14:40:06 <Knud> … in RDFa 1.1, there is no semantic distinction between xsd:string and plain literal.
… in RDFa 1.1, there is no semantic distinction between xsd:string and plain literal. ←
14:40:21 <Knud> manu: but it still breaks things like SPARQL queries, we need more input from RDF WG on this. It's just not very clear what they expect specs to say based on that decision.
Manu Sporny: but it still breaks things like SPARQL queries, we need more input from RDF WG on this. It's just not very clear what they expect specs to say based on that decision. ←
14:42:13 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-101 due to a lack of concrete guidance on how the RDF WG's plain literal decision impacts RDFa 1.1
PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-101 due to a lack of concrete guidance on how the RDF WG's plain literal decision impacts RDFa 1.1 ←
14:42:17 <Knud> Knud: +1
Knud Möller: +1 ←
14:42:18 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
14:42:19 <lindstream> +1
Niklas Lindström: +1 ←
14:42:20 <manu1> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
14:42:20 <SebastianGermesin> +1
Sebastian Germesin: +1 ←
14:42:31 <Steven> +1
Steven Pemberton: +1 ←
14:42:35 <manu1> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-101 due to a lack of concrete guidance on how the RDF WG's plain literal decision impacts RDFa 1.1
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-101 due to a lack of concrete guidance on how the RDF WG's plain literal decision impacts RDFa 1.1 ←
14:42:50 <manu1> Topic: RDF API and RDFa API Work
14:44:11 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:44:18 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:44:38 <Knud> manu: This is just a suggestion - but perhaps we should spin the API work out into a community group. I think the work should take more time to incubate - we're not having many people screaming for these features, and there are very few frameworks that even deal with this sort of data these days. If it were in a CG, we could incubate on it longer - let it grow naturally and then standardize once we feel that there are enough implementation experience. Any thoughts about this?
Manu Sporny: This is just a suggestion - but perhaps we should spin the API work out into a community group. I think the work should take more time to incubate - we're not having many people screaming for these features, and there are very few frameworks that even deal with this sort of data these days. If it were in a CG, we could incubate on it longer - let it grow naturally and then standardize once we feel that there are enough implementation experience. Any thoughts about this? ←
14:45:18 <Knud> lindstream: The RDF API is probably beyond our own WG's scope
Niklas Lindström: The RDF API is probably beyond our own WG's scope ←
14:45:18 <Knud> manu: It's in scope, but it would be good to get some folks from RDF WG involved - which is why we might try to move it elsewhere.
Manu Sporny: It's in scope, but it would be good to get some folks from RDF WG involved - which is why we might try to move it elsewhere. ←
14:45:20 <manu1> q+
Manu Sporny: q+ ←
14:45:54 <Knud> gkellog: why did we change our name to WebApps WG, if not to deal with Web applications, which means to deal with APIs
Gregg Kellogg: why did we change our name to WebApps WG, if not to deal with Web applications, which means to deal with APIs ←
14:47:35 <Knud> manu: it's unlikely that any browser vendors will support the APIs any time soon
Manu Sporny: it's unlikely that any browser vendors will support the APIs any time soon ←
14:47:51 <Knud> … they seem to be rather hostile towards them
… they seem to be rather hostile towards them ←
14:48:21 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:48:27 <manu1> ack manu1
Manu Sporny: ack manu1 ←
14:48:32 <Knud> … there doesn't seem to be a strong demand for it in the community currently either
… there doesn't seem to be a strong demand for it in the community currently either ←
14:49:00 <Knud> lindstream: one of the reasons I was invited into this WG was my interest in such APIs
Niklas Lindström: one of the reasons I was invited into this WG was my interest in such APIs ←
14:49:20 <Knud> … but yes, maybe it could take some time to incubate
… but yes, maybe it could take some time to incubate ←
14:50:13 <lindstream> q+
Niklas Lindström: q+ ←
14:50:15 <Knud> manu: this wouldn't halt the work on the APIs, instead it would give them more time.
Manu Sporny: this wouldn't halt the work on the APIs, instead it would give them more time. ←
14:50:47 <manu1> ack lindstream
Manu Sporny: ack lindstream ←
14:51:37 <Knud> lindstream: some aspects of the API are more closely related to JSON-LD
Niklas Lindström: some aspects of the API are more closely related to JSON-LD ←
14:52:13 <Knud> manu: yes, and this is also the way our company is dealing with this issue - conversion of RDFa to JSON-LD and then using those data structures directly. It's worked very well for us.
Manu Sporny: yes, and this is also the way our company is dealing with this issue - conversion of RDFa to JSON-LD and then using those data structures directly. It's worked very well for us. ←
14:53:22 <Knud> People think it's a good idea to move this out to a community group
People think it's a good idea to move this out to a community group ←
14:53:38 <Knud> manu: that's all from the agenda. Any other business?
Manu Sporny: that's all from the agenda. Any other business? ←
14:53:44 <Knud> no other business.
no other business. ←
14:53:44 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
14:53:46 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
14:53:46 <Zakim> -SebastianGermesin
Zakim IRC Bot: -SebastianGermesin ←
14:53:48 <Zakim> -manu1
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu1 ←
14:53:52 <Zakim> -Knud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud ←
14:53:54 <Zakim> -lindstream
Zakim IRC Bot: -lindstream ←
14:53:54 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←
14:53:56 <Zakim> Attendees were +3539149aaaa, Knud, lindstream, gkellogg, manu1, +68185775aabb, SebastianGermesin, Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +3539149aaaa, Knud, lindstream, gkellogg, manu1, +68185775aabb, SebastianGermesin, Steven ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2011-10-06 15:06:59 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor fixes'