RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 01 September 2011

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Aug/0093.html
Seen
Gregg Kellogg, Ivan Herman, Manu Sporny, Niklas Lindström, Shane McCarron, Stéphane Corlosquet, Thomas Steiner
Guests
Stéphane Corlosquet, Niklas Lindström
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Ivan Herman
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. Do not generate a provenance triple in the default graph for RDFa Core 1.1 processors. (closing issue-110) link
  2. Rename 'default graph' to 'output graph' in all RDFa documents. (closing issue-109) link
Topics
13:55:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/01-rdfa-irc

13:55:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:55:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

13:55:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

13:55:34 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
13:55:34 <trackbot> Date: 01 September 2011
13:56:20 <manu1> Guest: Stéphane (scor) Corlosquet
13:56:22 <manu1> Guest: Niklas (lindstream) Lindström
13:56:22 <manu1> Chair: Manu
13:56:25 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Aug/0093.html
13:58:00 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

13:58:07 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

13:58:10 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P20

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P20

13:58:10 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

13:59:43 <Zakim> + +1.781.866.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.866.aaaa

14:00:17 <Zakim> - +1.781.866.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.781.866.aaaa

14:01:13 <Zakim> +??P41

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41

14:01:19 <Zakim> +aharon

Zakim IRC Bot: +aharon

14:01:21 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:01:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:01:27 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

14:01:29 <lindstream> zakim, I am ??P41

Niklas Lindström: zakim, I am ??P41

14:01:35 <Zakim> +lindstream; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +lindstream; got it

14:01:47 <Zakim> + +1.781.866.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.781.866.aabb

14:01:58 <tomayac> zakim, i am aaaa

Thomas Steiner: zakim, i am aaaa

14:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, tomayac, I do not see a party named 'aaaa'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, tomayac, I do not see a party named 'aaaa'

14:02:20 <scor> Zakim, I'm aabb

Stéphane Corlosquet: Zakim, I'm aabb

14:02:21 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I'm aabb', scor

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'I'm aabb', scor

14:02:29 <scor> zakim, aabb is me

Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, aabb is me

14:02:31 <Zakim> +??P49

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P49

14:02:33 <Zakim> +scor; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +scor; got it

14:02:34 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P49

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P49

14:02:37 <Zakim> +manu1; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it

14:02:47 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?

Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call?

14:02:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see gkellogg, lindstream, aharon, Ivan, scor, manu1

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gkellogg, lindstream, aharon, Ivan, scor, manu1

14:03:37 <scor> zakim, who is making noise?

Stéphane Corlosquet: zakim, who is making noise?

14:03:47 <Zakim> scor, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 6 (37%), gkellogg (13%), aharon (34%), manu1 (60%)

Zakim IRC Bot: scor, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 6 (37%), gkellogg (13%), aharon (34%), manu1 (60%)

14:04:00 <ivan> zakim, aharon is tomayac

Ivan Herman: zakim, aharon is tomayac

14:04:00 <Zakim> +tomayac; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac; got it

14:04:00 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?

Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call?

14:04:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see gkellogg, lindstream, tomayac, Ivan, scor, manu1

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see gkellogg, lindstream, tomayac, Ivan, scor, manu1

14:05:55 <ivan> scribenick: ivan

(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)

14:06:41 <ivan> manu: the agenda will have to be moved around, one of the items was a closed issue

Manu Sporny: the agenda will have to be moved around, one of the items was a closed issue

14:06:52 <ivan> ... we have to respond to netlabs, it is not good to push this off as long as we have, especially since they are interested in the RDFa API.

... we have to respond to netlabs, it is not good to push this off as long as we have, especially since they are interested in the RDFa API.

14:08:08 <ivan> ... any other updates to the agenda?

... any other updates to the agenda?

14:08:15 <ivan> ... none

... none

14:08:22 <manu1> Topic: Response to netlabs.org

1. Response to netlabs.org

14:08:23 <lindstream> +1 on RDFa core prior to API..

Niklas Lindström: +1 on RDFa core prior to API..

14:08:29 <ivan> manu: let us talk about the netlab stuff very quickly

Manu Sporny: let us talk about the netlab stuff very quickly

14:08:43 <manu1> We should focus on RDFa Core right now

Manu Sporny: We should focus on RDFa Core right now

14:08:52 <manu1> We need to say something to these guys: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Aug/0033.html

Manu Sporny: We need to say something to these guys: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Aug/0033.html

14:09:07 <manu1> ACTION: Manu to respond to netlabs.org folks

ACTION: Manu to respond to netlabs.org folks

14:09:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-91 - Respond to netlabs.org folks [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-09-08].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-91 - Respond to netlabs.org folks [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-09-08].

14:09:11 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:09:20 <ivan> ack lindstream

ack lindstream

14:09:38 <Zakim> +??P70

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P70

14:09:39 <ivan> lindstream: we should say that the api is still in flux, we should tell them that

Niklas Lindström: we should say that the api is still in flux, we should tell them that

14:09:52 <ivan> zakim, ??P70 is ShaneM

zakim, ??P70 is ShaneM

14:09:56 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it

14:10:08 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-110: graph source triple

2. ISSUE-110: graph source triple

14:10:38 <ivan> manu: had some discussion on the mailing list

Manu Sporny: had some discussion on the mailing list

14:10:57 <gkellogg> q+

Gregg Kellogg: q+

14:10:58 <ivan> niklas: I do not have a strong opinion, and I do not think we should do it

Niklas Lindström: I do not have a strong opinion, and I do not think we should do it

14:11:18 <ivan> ... just to highlight my problems I wrote a mail

... just to highlight my problems I wrote a mail

14:11:30 <ivan> ... we get into a mess on how to name the graph.

... we get into a mess on how to name the graph.

14:11:42 <manu1> ack gkellogg

Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg

14:11:54 <ivan> gkellogg: i think the problem is that we do not generate a document

Gregg Kellogg: i think the problem is that we do not generate a document

14:12:04 <ivan> ... we create a graph

... we create a graph

14:12:07 <ivan> ... and a graph has to a fully resolved uri

... and a graph has to a fully resolved uri

14:12:20 <ivan> ... so i am not sure we can add a name

... so i am not sure we can add a name

14:12:36 <ivan> ... we could do add a triple on a type

... we could do add a triple on a type

14:12:38 <ivan> q+

q+

14:12:42 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:12:58 <manu1> Ivan: That was the original proposal

Ivan Herman: That was the original proposal [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:13:11 <manu1> Ivan: What I had in mind was this:

Ivan Herman: What I had in mind was this: [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:13:21 <ivan> <URIOFDOCUMENT> a rdfa:Source .

<URIOFDOCUMENT> a rdfa:Source .

14:14:02 <manu1> Ivan: We can do that without problems, it doesn't raise all of the issues w/o naming. We do not generate a document we generate a graph - unless we introduce the concept of graph naming, we have a problem.

Ivan Herman: We can do that without problems, it doesn't raise all of the issues w/o naming. We do not generate a document we generate a graph - unless we introduce the concept of graph naming, we have a problem. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:14:22 <manu1> Ivan: We can fall back to what I say above. It solves the issue for applications that want to have that information.

Ivan Herman: We can fall back to what I say above. It solves the issue for applications that want to have that information. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:14:27 <lindstream> .. like an implied <head typeof="rdfa:Source">

Niklas Lindström: .. like an implied <head typeof="rdfa:Source">

14:14:36 <ivan> gkellogg: it is the best we can do

Gregg Kellogg: it is the best we can do

14:14:47 <ivan> ... it is a useful triple to have in the graph

... it is a useful triple to have in the graph

14:14:55 <ivan> ... it does not accomplish what could be doen

... it does not accomplish what could be done

14:14:59 <ivan> s/doen/done/
14:15:00 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:15:12 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:15:25 <ivan> lindstream: i see no real problem with it, you can provide that explicitly if you want

Niklas Lindström: i see no real problem with it, you can provide that explicitly if you want

14:15:46 <ivan> ... other formats do not do the same

... other formats do not do the same

14:15:54 <ivan> ... it would be a new thing for rdfa

... it would be a new thing for rdfa

14:16:33 <manu1> Ivan: This isn't the same as RDF/XML or TURTLE - the only equivalent is GRDDL - in RDF/XML or TURTLE, you have a self-reference.

Ivan Herman: This isn't the same as RDF/XML or TURTLE - the only equivalent is GRDDL - in RDF/XML or TURTLE, you have a self-reference. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:17:02 <manu1> Ivan: The difference here is you have a source document (the RDFa document) and you process that to generate a graph (the RDF/XML or TURTLE graph).

Ivan Herman: The difference here is you have a source document (the RDFa document) and you process that to generate a graph (the RDF/XML or TURTLE graph). [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:17:39 <manu1> q+ to ask about who is asking for this feature?

Manu Sporny: q+ to ask about who is asking for this feature?

14:18:08 <ivan> lindstream: rdfa is an amalgam of the things

Niklas Lindström: rdfa is an amalgam of the things

14:18:21 <ivan> ... it is something that is 'true' so it does not harm

... it is something that is 'true' so it does not harm

14:18:26 <manu1> ack manu1

Manu Sporny: ack manu1

14:18:26 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to ask about who is asking for this feature?

Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to ask about who is asking for this feature?

14:18:35 <ivan> q+

q+

14:18:52 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:19:06 <manu1> Manu: Who needs this feature? What use case cannot be solved without it?

Manu Sporny: Who needs this feature? What use case cannot be solved without it? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:19:53 <manu1> Ivan: I spoke w/ a company - this company retrieves data via RDFa - then they mix it up with a number of things - they're a search company - but they want to have information about the origin of the data that led to the indexes.

Ivan Herman: I spoke w/ a company - this company retrieves data via RDFa - then they mix it up with a number of things - they're a search company - but they want to have information about the origin of the data that led to the indexes. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:20:06 <lindstream> q+ on provenance tracking

Niklas Lindström: q+ on provenance tracking

14:20:14 <manu1> q+ to ask how this is different from the larger problem of provenance.

Manu Sporny: q+ to ask how this is different from the larger problem of provenance.

14:20:48 <manu1> Ivan: They wanted to have something that says "This is where the triple was created from"

Ivan Herman: They wanted to have something that says "This is where the triple was created from" [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:20:52 <ivan> lindstream: I do not see how that would help them much

Niklas Lindström: I do not see how that would help them much

14:21:15 <ivan> ... a provenance tracking

... a provenance tracking

14:21:21 <lindstream> <{base-uri}> a foaf:Document; dct:format "text/html" .

Niklas Lindström: <{base-uri}> a foaf:Document; dct:format "text/html" .

14:21:21 <ivan> ... is necessary

... is necessary

14:22:06 <ivan> ... it is up to them, ie, their processor, to add additional information about the origin

... it is up to them, ie, their processor, to add additional information about the origin

14:22:08 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:22:08 <Zakim> lindstream, you wanted to comment on provenance tracking

Zakim IRC Bot: lindstream, you wanted to comment on provenance tracking

14:22:12 <ivan> q+

q+

14:22:13 <manu1> ack manu1

Manu Sporny: ack manu1

14:22:13 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to ask how this is different from the larger problem of provenance.

Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to ask how this is different from the larger problem of provenance.

14:22:43 <ivan> manu1: our company does this as well

Manu Sporny: our company does this as well

14:22:49 <ivan> ... we have to fetch document with rdfa

... we have to fetch document with rdfa

14:22:59 <ivan> ... we have to track the provenance of the document

... we have to track the provenance of the document

14:23:16 <ivan> ... we have to have more than just the origin, like time, mime, etc

... we have to have more than just the origin, like time, mime, etc

14:23:21 <ivan> ... just adding that one triple in there

... just adding that one triple in there

14:23:41 <ivan> ... will not solve the issues

... will not solve the issues

14:23:59 <ivan> ... if we put this in, i do not think it solves the problem of provenance

... if we put this in, i do not think it solves the problem of provenance

14:24:06 <ivan> ... it does not get you closer to the solution

... it does not get you closer to the solution

14:24:25 <ivan> ... you have to think about provenance in a larger sense

... you have to think about provenance in a larger sense

14:24:27 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:24:44 <manu1> Ivan: I don't want to make a big deal out of it - the group isn't in favor of this.

Ivan Herman: I don't want to make a big deal out of it - the group isn't in favor of this. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:25:16 <tomayac> 0 neutral about it

Thomas Steiner: 0 neutral about it

14:26:25 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Do not generate a provenance triple in the default graph for RDFa Core 1.1 processors.

PROPOSED: Do not generate a provenance triple in the default graph for RDFa Core 1.1 processors.

14:26:34 <manu1> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

14:26:34 <ivan> Ivan: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

14:26:36 <ShaneM> +1

Shane McCarron: +1

14:26:37 <lindstream> +1

Niklas Lindström: +1

14:26:38 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

14:26:55 <tomayac> 0

Thomas Steiner: 0

14:26:57 <ivan> RESOLVED: Do not generate a provenance triple in the default graph for RDFa Core 1.1 processors. (closing issue-110)

RESOLVED: Do not generate a provenance triple in the default graph for RDFa Core 1.1 processors. (closing ISSUE-110)

14:27:50 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-109: 'default graph' vs. 'output graph'

3. ISSUE-109: 'default graph' vs. 'output graph'

14:27:52 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/109

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/109

14:27:56 <ivan> q+

q+

14:28:23 <manu1> Ivan: SPARQL is very specific about what 'default graph' means wrt. data sets.

Ivan Herman: SPARQL is very specific about what 'default graph' means wrt. data sets. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:28:44 <manu1> Ivan: It's not good if we re-use the same terms w/ a different meaning - global change of 'default graph' to 'output graph' is a good change.

Ivan Herman: It's not good if we re-use the same terms w/ a different meaning - global change of 'default graph' to 'output graph' is a good change. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:28:54 <lindstream> q+ on naming

Niklas Lindström: q+ on naming

14:29:03 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:29:03 <Zakim> lindstream, you wanted to comment on naming

Zakim IRC Bot: lindstream, you wanted to comment on naming

14:29:06 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:29:19 <ivan> lindstream: I agree, default graph means something specific

Niklas Lindström: I agree, default graph means something specific

14:29:36 <ivan> ... 'output' or 'result' graph is possible

... 'output' or 'result' graph is possible

14:29:48 <ivan> manu1: anybody is against renaming?

Manu Sporny: anybody is against renaming?

14:30:04 <ivan> manu1: anybody prefer 'result graph'?

Manu Sporny: anybody prefer 'result graph'?

14:30:58 <manu1> PROPOSAL: Rename 'default graph' to 'output graph' in all RDFa documents.

PROPOSED: Rename 'default graph' to 'output graph' in all RDFa documents.

14:31:02 <ivan> Ivan: +1

Ivan Herman: +1

14:31:03 <manu1> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

14:31:03 <lindstream> +1

Niklas Lindström: +1

14:31:03 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

14:31:05 <scor> +1

Stéphane Corlosquet: +1

14:31:13 <tomayac> +1

Thomas Steiner: +1

14:31:19 <ivan> RESOLVED:  Rename 'default graph' to 'output graph' in all RDFa documents. (closing issue-109)

RESOLVED: Rename 'default graph' to 'output graph' in all RDFa documents. (closing ISSUE-109)

14:31:24 <gkellogg> q+ to discuss test suite

Gregg Kellogg: q+ to discuss test suite

14:32:09 <manu1> ack gkellogg

Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg

14:32:09 <Zakim> gkellogg, you wanted to discuss test suite

Zakim IRC Bot: gkellogg, you wanted to discuss test suite

14:32:37 <manu1> Topic: ISSUE-105: @itemref attribute

4. ISSUE-105: @itemref attribute

14:32:40 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/105

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/105

14:33:49 <manu1> Manu: I think this is a horrible idea

Manu Sporny: I think this is a horrible idea [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:35:04 <ivan> manu1: I have the technical issue with @itemref

Manu Sporny: I have the technical issue with @itemref

14:35:14 <gkellogg> microdata is a tree, not a graph, so @itemref has more use for them

Gregg Kellogg: microdata is a tree, not a graph, so @itemref has more use for them

14:35:17 <ivan> .... it is unimplementable if you do not have a DOM

.... it is unimplementable if you do not have a DOM

14:35:38 <ivan> ... if I am a one-pass processor then it becomes really difficult if not impossible to do it

... if I am a one-pass processor then it becomes really difficult if not impossible to do it

14:35:41 <lindstream> q+ on what's the use case (and why wouldn't @rel, @rev or @about solve those?)

Niklas Lindström: q+ on what's the use case (and why wouldn't @rel, @rev or @about solve those?)

14:36:03 <ivan> ... for each @itemref you would have to rescan the document if you use a SAX-based implementation.

... for each @itemref you would have to rescan the document if you use a SAX-based implementation.

14:36:06 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:36:06 <Zakim> lindstream, you wanted to comment on what's the use case (and why wouldn't @rel, @rev or @about solve those?)

Zakim IRC Bot: lindstream, you wanted to comment on what's the use case (and why wouldn't @rel, @rev or @about solve those?)

14:36:25 <ivan> lindstream: I do not see the use case, we already have powerful constructs

Niklas Lindström: I do not see the use case, we already have powerful constructs

14:36:41 <ivan> ... maybe if we have a real use case, I believe it would be better to have multiple abouts

... maybe if we have a real use case, I believe it would be better to have multiple abouts

14:36:42 <ivan> q+

q+

14:36:47 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:37:21 <gkellogg> q+ to discuss relation of @rev to @itemref

Gregg Kellogg: q+ to discuss relation of @rev to @itemref

14:37:51 <manu1> q+ to say that @itemref is the same as about="a b c", imo

Manu Sporny: q+ to say that @itemref is the same as about="a b c", imo

14:39:33 <manu1> ack gkellogg

Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg

14:39:33 <Zakim> gkellogg, you wanted to discuss relation of @rev to @itemref

Zakim IRC Bot: gkellogg, you wanted to discuss relation of @rev to @itemref

14:39:45 <ivan> gkellogg: I think our use of @rev addresses some of the things

Gregg Kellogg: I think our use of @rev addresses some of the things

14:39:55 <ivan> ... ie, to associate different subjects with a given object

... ie, to associate different subjects with a given object

14:40:05 <ivan> ... there is already many sources of copy paste issues

... there is already many sources of copy paste issues

14:40:19 <ivan> ... @itemref makes the meaning of attributes different

... @itemref makes the meaning of attributes different

14:40:23 <manu1> ack manu1

Manu Sporny: ack manu1

14:40:23 <Zakim> manu1, you wanted to say that @itemref is the same as about="a b c", imo

Zakim IRC Bot: manu1, you wanted to say that @itemref is the same as about="a b c", imo

14:40:25 <ivan> ... it is a whole set of problems

... it is a whole set of problems

14:40:34 <ivan> ... and I would prefer to keep away from

... and I would prefer to keep away from

14:40:48 <ivan> manu1: the about attribute solves most of the problems

Manu Sporny: the about attribute solves most of the problems

14:40:58 <ivan> ... the about thing solves most of the issues

... the about thing solves most of the issues

14:41:10 <ivan> ... i do understand the use case in microdata

... i do understand the use case in microdata

14:41:21 <ivan> ... it is not a graph, so they need something like that

... it is not a graph, so they need something like that

14:41:34 <ivan> ... but I have never seen anybody using rdfa needing this

... but I have never seen anybody using rdfa needing this

14:42:04 <ivan> ... using references in rdfa solves the issue

... using references in rdfa solves the issue

14:42:14 <ivan> ... you usually encapsulate that in a separate @about

... you usually encapsulate that in a separate @about

14:42:23 <ivan> ... I do not see the advantage of that feature

... I do not see the advantage of that feature

14:42:41 <ivan> q+

q+

14:42:49 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:43:16 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:43:39 <manu1> Ivan: We should do a write up of the last two issues and send them back to Jeni to see if she agrees with our findings.

Ivan Herman: We should do a write up of the last two issues and send them back to Jeni to see if she agrees with our findings. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:44:27 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:44:32 <ivan> lindstream: I agree that a writeup would be good to explain

Niklas Lindström: I agree that a writeup would be good to explain

14:44:39 <ShaneM> q+ to ask about the itemref resolving differently from different parts of the document

Shane McCarron: q+ to ask about the itemref resolving differently from different parts of the document

14:44:45 <ivan> ... we should find out the real use cases and express those with rel/rev

... we should find out the real use cases and express those with rel/rev

14:45:00 <ivan> ... I have never seen this need in any kind of representation of data

... I have never seen this need in any kind of representation of data

14:45:13 <ivan> ... I cannot see any use case of switch vocab and use the same terms

... I cannot see any use case of switch vocab and use the same terms

14:45:24 <ivan> ... it would make no sense to me

... it would make no sense to me

14:45:47 <ivan> ... If there was a use case for which about should be extended to have multiple values, we should look at that instead

... If there was a use case for which about should be extended to have multiple values, we should look at that instead

14:45:49 <manu1> ack shanem

Manu Sporny: ack shanem

14:45:49 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask about the itemref resolving differently from different parts of the document

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask about the itemref resolving differently from different parts of the document

14:46:12 <ivan> ShaneM: with itemref if I refer to something from a different place it will be interpreted differently

Shane McCarron: with itemref if I refer to something from a different place it will be interpreted differently

14:46:25 <ivan> ivan: that is my understanding

Ivan Herman: that is my understanding

14:46:31 <ivan> manu1: not mine...

Manu Sporny: not mine...

14:47:13 <ivan> <s itemtype="URI1>... < itemref="#q"> </s>

<s itemtype="URI1>... < itemref="#q"> </s>

14:47:23 <ivan> <s itemtype="URI2>... < itemref="#q"> </s>

<s itemtype="URI2>... < itemref="#q"> </s>

14:47:42 <ivan> <sss id="q" itemprop="bla">....</sss>

<sss id="q" itemprop="bla">....</sss>

14:49:02 <gkellogg> @itemref seems like microformat's include pattern

Gregg Kellogg: @itemref seems like microformat's include pattern

14:49:18 <manu1> That's because @itemref was inspired by Microformat's include pattern.

Manu Sporny: That's because @itemref was inspired by Microformat's include pattern.

14:49:59 <manu1> ACTION: scor to check the @itemref functionality.

ACTION: scor to check the @itemref functionality.

14:49:59 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - scor

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - scor

14:50:00 <tomayac> http://www.xanthir.com/blog/b4570 has a use case which seems to make sense

Thomas Steiner: http://www.xanthir.com/blog/b4570 has a use case which seems to make sense

14:51:12 <lindstream> q+

Niklas Lindström: q+

14:51:12 <ivan> tomayac: looking at the code in the box, if you have a table with information on something, they use the itemref to get the organization for the columns

Thomas Steiner: looking at the code in the box, if you have a table with information on something, they use the itemref to get the organization for the columns

14:52:04 <manu1> ack lindstream

Manu Sporny: ack lindstream

14:52:14 <ivan> lindstream: from my quick read I am quite confident that @about would solve it

Niklas Lindström: from my quick read I am quite confident that @about would solve it

14:52:23 <ivan> ... it seems to solve the problem

... it seems to solve the problem

14:52:41 <ivan> tomayac: probably using @about and explicit reference we should be able to solve the problem

Thomas Steiner: probably using @about and explicit reference we should be able to solve the problem

14:53:04 <ivan> lindstream: it is a good example, though

Niklas Lindström: it is a good example, though

14:53:32 <tomayac> thanks, lindstream ;-) just a random google finding though...

Thomas Steiner: thanks, lindstream ;-) just a random google finding though...

14:53:34 <Zakim> -scor

Zakim IRC Bot: -scor

14:53:47 <Zakim> +scor

Zakim IRC Bot: +scor

14:54:27 <lindstream> tomayac: random googling often yields gold ;)

Thomas Steiner: random googling often yields gold ;) [ Scribe Assist by Niklas Lindström ]

14:54:51 <lindstream> ... rdfa lists?

Niklas Lindström: ... rdfa lists?

14:55:03 <manu1> ACTION: Manu to respond to Jeni on ISSUE-105.

ACTION: Manu to respond to Jeni on ISSUE-105.

14:55:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Respond to Jeni on ISSUE-105. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-09-08].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-92 - Respond to Jeni on ISSUE-105. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-09-08].

14:55:24 <manu1> Topic: Publication timeline for 3rd LC of RDFa Core 1.1

5. Publication timeline for 3rd LC of RDFa Core 1.1

14:55:43 <ivan> manu1: the sooner the better...

Manu Sporny: the sooner the better...

14:55:49 <ivan> ... we have a set of issues in the queue

... we have a set of issues in the queue

14:55:59 <ivan> q+

q+

14:56:13 <ivan> ... we would like a final document at the schema.org event

... we would like a final document at the schema.org event

14:56:24 <manu1> ack ivan

Manu Sporny: ack ivan

14:58:04 <tomayac> @rev is deprecated in html5, shanem

Thomas Steiner: @rev is deprecated in html5, shanem

14:58:12 <manu1> Ivan: We want a document that is stable again - we have xsd:string issue, link/meta is only really applicable to HTML+RDFa, @itemref is done, rdf:List is important, @src is important to discuss, Default profile needs to be done (should they be profiles or something else),

Ivan Herman: We want a document that is stable again - we have xsd:string issue, link/meta is only really applicable to HTML+RDFa, @itemref is done, rdf:List is important, @src is important to discuss, Default profile needs to be done (should they be profiles or something else), [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:59:28 <gkellogg> Verified with my distiller that two @itemrefs will generate properties with different URIs

Gregg Kellogg: Verified with my distiller that two @itemrefs will generate properties with different URIs

14:59:29 <manu1> Ivan: We should be able to settle these in the coming 3 weeks - technically speaking, the document can be in a very good Editors Draft by the schema.org meeting time.

Ivan Herman: We should be able to settle these in the coming 3 weeks - technically speaking, the document can be in a very good Editors Draft by the schema.org meeting time. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

14:59:57 <manu1> Shane: We will create a date-spaced editors draft.

Shane McCarron: We will create a date-spaced editors draft. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

15:01:30 <gkellogg> q+

Gregg Kellogg: q+

15:02:11 <ivan> gkellogg: it may be worth to add a note on the xsd:string that future rdf will change that feature

Gregg Kellogg: it may be worth to add a note on the xsd:string that future rdf will change that feature

15:02:35 <manu1> ack gkellogg

Manu Sporny: ack gkellogg

15:02:35 <ShaneM> ack gkellogg

Shane McCarron: ack gkellogg

15:02:47 <Zakim> -scor

Zakim IRC Bot: -scor

15:03:26 <Zakim> -tomayac

Zakim IRC Bot: -tomayac

15:03:28 <Zakim> -manu1

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu1



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This revision (#1) generated 2011-09-01 16:38:45 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor clean up to minutes.'