RDFa Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 01 April 2010

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0262.html
Present
Shane McCarron, Benjamin Adrian, Steven Pemberton, Mark Birbeck, Markus Gylling, Manu Sporny, Knud Möller, Robert Weir, Toby Inkster, Jeffrey Sonstein
Regrets
Ivan Herman, Ben Adida
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Toby Inkster
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions

None.

Topics
13:29:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/04/01-rdfa-irc

13:46:01 <manu> trackbot, start meeting

(No events recorded for 16 minutes)

Manu Sporny: trackbot, start meeting

13:46:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

13:46:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

13:46:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

13:46:06 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
13:46:06 <trackbot> Date: 01 April 2010
13:46:23 <manu> Regrets: Ivan, Ben Adida
13:46:33 <manu> Chair: Manu
13:47:27 <manu> Present: Shane, Benjamin, Steven, Mark Birbeck, Markus, Manu, Knud, Rob, Toby, Jeff
13:47:42 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2010Mar/0262.html
13:53:14 <manu> trackbot, action-16 comment Shane has prepared the RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD and only need to make edits from now on: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-core-20100330

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Manu Sporny: trackbot, ACTION-16 comment Shane has prepared the RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD and only need to make edits from now on: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-core-20100330

13:53:14 <trackbot> Sorry, manu, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-16 comment Shane has prepared the RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD and only need to make edits from now on: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-core-20100330'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, manu, I don't understand 'trackbot, ACTION-16 comment Shane has prepared the RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD and only need to make edits from now on: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-core-20100330'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

13:53:46 <manu> trackbot, comment action-16 Shane has prepared the RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD and only need to make edits from now on: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-core-20100330

Manu Sporny: trackbot, comment ACTION-16 Shane has prepared the RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD and only need to make edits from now on: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-core-20100330

13:53:46 <trackbot> ACTION-16 Prepare RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-16 Prepare RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD notes added

13:54:42 <manu> trackbot, comment action-18 Shane has prepared the XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document for FPWD and only needs to make edits before publication: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20100330

Manu Sporny: trackbot, comment ACTION-18 Shane has prepared the XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document for FPWD and only needs to make edits before publication: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20100330

13:54:42 <trackbot> ACTION-18 Prepare XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document for FPWD. notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-18 Prepare XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document for FPWD. notes added

13:55:35 <manu> trackbot, comment action-19 Benjamin has prepared the RDFa DOM API document and only needs to make edits before publication: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-dom-api-20100331

Manu Sporny: trackbot, comment ACTION-19 Benjamin has prepared the RDFa DOM API document and only needs to make edits before publication: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/2010/ED-rdfa-dom-api-20100331

13:55:35 <trackbot> ACTION-19 Prepare RDFa API document for FPWD notes added

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-19 Prepare RDFa API document for FPWD notes added

13:55:52 <manu> trackbot, close action-16

Manu Sporny: trackbot, close ACTION-16

13:55:52 <trackbot> ACTION-16 Prepare RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-16 Prepare RDFa Core 1.1 document for FPWD closed

13:55:55 <manu> trackbot, close action-18

Manu Sporny: trackbot, close ACTION-18

13:55:55 <trackbot> ACTION-18 Prepare XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document for FPWD. closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-18 Prepare XHTML+RDFa 1.1 document for FPWD. closed

13:55:58 <manu> trackbot, close action-19

Manu Sporny: trackbot, close ACTION-19

13:55:58 <trackbot> ACTION-19 Prepare RDFa API document for FPWD closed

Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-19 Prepare RDFa API document for FPWD closed

13:58:20 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

13:58:27 <Zakim> +Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin

13:58:57 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

13:59:02 <manu> zakim, I am ??P12

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P12

13:59:03 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it

13:59:44 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

14:00:53 <Zakim> + +04670602aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +04670602aaaa

14:01:00 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

14:01:00 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:01:02 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:01:06 <Zakim> +RobW

Zakim IRC Bot: +RobW

14:01:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:01:38 <mgylling> Zakim, aaaa is me

Markus Gylling: Zakim, aaaa is me

14:01:38 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it

14:02:06 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Mark Birbeck: zakim, code?

14:02:06 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

14:02:31 <Zakim> + +0785583aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0785583aabb

14:02:46 <Steven> zakim, mute me

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute me

14:02:46 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven should now be muted

14:02:52 <manu> scribenick: tinkster

(Scribe set to Toby Inkster)

14:03:00 <Zakim> +jeffs

Zakim IRC Bot: +jeffs

14:03:02 <tinkster> zakim, aabb is me

zakim, aabb is me

14:03:02 <Zakim> +tinkster; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +tinkster; got it

14:04:00 <manu> zakim, code?

Manu Sporny: zakim, code?

14:04:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), manu

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), manu

14:04:51 <Zakim> + +0208761aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0208761aacc

14:05:02 <markbirbeck> zakim, I am aacc

Mark Birbeck: zakim, I am aacc

14:05:02 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

14:05:50 <Steven> Topic: RDFa Core 1.1 Review

1. RDFa Core 1.1 Review

14:06:09 <tinkster> Manu: skipping ahead to FPWD review. Excellent work done on these documents. We're in good shape to stick to our schedule.

Manu Sporny: skipping ahead to FPWD review. Excellent work done on these documents. We're in good shape to stick to our schedule.

14:06:35 <ShaneM> zakim, who is noisy?

Shane McCarron: zakim, who is noisy?

14:06:38 <tinkster> ... looking to get Core, RDFa+XHTML and RDFa API ready.

... looking to get Core, RDFa+XHTML and RDFa API ready.

14:06:46 <Zakim> ShaneM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (49%), mgylling (47%), markbirbeck (80%)

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (49%), mgylling (47%), markbirbeck (80%)

14:06:59 <tinkster> ... Need to make sure these are consistent with each other.

... Need to make sure these are consistent with each other.

14:07:05 <markbirbeck> zakim, mute me

Mark Birbeck: zakim, mute me

14:07:09 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should now be muted

14:07:26 <tinkster> ... We don't all necessarily need to agree on every detail of the documents - just that the general direction is correct.

... We don't all necessarily need to agree on every detail of the documents - just that the general direction is correct.

14:07:27 <Steven> zakim, mute mgylling temperarily

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute mgylling temperarily

14:07:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute mgylling temperarily', Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'mute mgylling temperarily', Steven

14:07:33 <Steven> zakim, mute mgylling temporarily

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute mgylling temporarily

14:07:33 <Zakim> mgylling should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling should now be muted

14:07:46 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/drafts/

14:07:49 <Zakim> mgylling should now be unmuted again

Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling should now be unmuted again

14:08:00 <Steven> zakim, mute mgylling

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute mgylling

14:08:00 <Zakim> mgylling should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling should now be muted

14:09:35 <tinkster> ShaneM: RDFa core is reasonably solid. Ivan has raised a few editorial issues and technical issues that I intend to answer by email.

Shane McCarron: RDFa core is reasonably solid. Ivan has raised a few editorial issues and technical issues that I intend to answer by email.

14:09:44 <manu> We're supposed to be discussing ISSUE-13 and ISSUE-14 today.

Manu Sporny: We're supposed to be discussing ISSUE-13 and ISSUE-14 today.

14:10:30 <tinkster> ... There are a few issues noted in the document itself. One of these is regarding datatypes. We have a lot of attributes - most can take CURIEs or URIs. @about and @resource are special, in that they need to take relative URIs.

... There are a few issues noted in the document itself. One of these is regarding datatypes. We have a lot of attributes - most can take CURIEs or URIs. @about and @resource are special, in that they need to take relative URIs.

14:11:21 <Steven> <a about="prev" rel="next" resource="next">

Steven Pemberton: <a about="prev" rel="next" resource="next">

14:11:38 <Steven> ack me

Steven Pemberton: ack me

14:11:38 <tinkster> ... Relative URIs are indistinguishable from keywords in RDFa vocabs. So we need some way of making sure that these attributes don't take keywords (except perhaps via safe-curie syntax).

... Relative URIs are indistinguishable from keywords in RDFa vocabs. So we need some way of making sure that these attributes don't take keywords (except perhaps via safe-curie syntax).

14:12:17 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is on the phone?

14:12:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Benjamin, manu, ShaneM, mgylling (muted), Steven, RobW, [IPcaller], tinkster, jeffs, markbirbeck (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Benjamin, manu, ShaneM, mgylling (muted), Steven, RobW, [IPcaller], tinkster, jeffs, markbirbeck (muted)

14:12:19 <tinkster> ... Steven's posted a good example. Another one is about="me" where me is a relative URI.

... Steven's posted a good example. Another one is about="me" where me is a relative URI.

14:13:24 <tinkster> ... @rel, etc it's fine to have keywords, full URIs and CURIEs. For @about and @resource we need to be able to take relative URIs though.

... @rel, etc it's fine to have keywords, full URIs and CURIEs. For @about and @resource we need to be able to take relative URIs though.

14:13:52 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

14:14:02 <manu> ack manu

Manu Sporny: ack manu

14:14:10 <Steven> zakim, mute me

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute me

14:14:10 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven should now be muted

14:14:17 <tinkster> Jeff: even for the attributes which expect absolute URIs, authors may try to jam relative URIs into them.

Jeffrey Sonstein: even for the attributes which expect absolute URIs, authors may try to jam relative URIs into them.

14:14:39 <Zakim> +knud

Zakim IRC Bot: +knud

14:14:46 <Knud> zakim, mute  me

Knud Möller: zakim, mute me

14:14:46 <Zakim> knud should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: knud should now be muted

14:15:07 <tinkster> Manu: there are different ways to do this - a new type, or modify CURIE processing so that the CURIE processor knows what attribute is being used.

Manu Sporny: there are different ways to do this - a new type, or modify CURIE processing so that the CURIE processor knows what attribute is being used.

14:15:27 <markbirbeck> Only use-cae I can think of for relative paths being used as predicates, is when creating an OWL ontology that makes use of some of the predicates that it itself defines. (I.e., very rare.)

Mark Birbeck: Only use-cae I can think of for relative paths being used as predicates, is when creating an OWL ontology that makes use of some of the predicates that it itself defines. (I.e., very rare.)

14:16:24 <tinkster> ShaneM: Another possibility is to require safe CURIEs all over the place.

Shane McCarron: Another possibility is to require safe CURIEs all over the place.

14:17:27 <tinkster> ShaneM: CURIEs are/will be referenced by other specs, so we can't embed too much RDFa attribute-specific logic into CURIE expansion.

Shane McCarron: CURIEs are/will be referenced by other specs, so we can't embed too much RDFa attribute-specific logic into CURIE expansion.

14:17:36 <markbirbeck> Not saying we need them. :)

Mark Birbeck: Not saying we need them. :)

14:18:00 <markbirbeck> Simply meant that the problem is less likely to occur with @rel/@rev.

Mark Birbeck: Simply meant that the problem is less likely to occur with @rel/@rev.

14:18:01 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

14:18:12 <markbirbeck> But the problem Shane has identified is very real for @about.

Mark Birbeck: But the problem Shane has identified is very real for @about.

14:18:25 <tinkster> ... A term (i.e. keyword) must match NMTOKEN, so that disambiguates *sometimes*.

... A term (i.e. keyword) must match NMTOKEN, so that disambiguates *sometimes*.

14:18:51 <tinkster> manu: Can we keep this as it is for now?

Manu Sporny: Can we keep this as it is for now?

14:19:12 <tinkster> ShaneM: the document as-is doesn't work, so we need to resolve it somehow.

Shane McCarron: the document as-is doesn't work, so we need to resolve it somehow.

14:19:17 <jeffs> for the time being +1

Jeffrey Sonstein: for the time being +1

14:19:17 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me

Mark Birbeck: zakim, unmute me

14:19:17 <Zakim> markbirbeck should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should no longer be muted

14:19:24 <tinkster> manu: Any objections to adding a new datatype for this?

Manu Sporny: Any objections to adding a new datatype for this?

14:20:07 <tinkster> markbirbeck: Is the crux of the problem that keywords/tokens are part of the CURIE spec?

Mark Birbeck: Is the crux of the problem that keywords/tokens are part of the CURIE spec?

14:20:29 <manu> q+

Manu Sporny: q+

14:20:48 <tinkster> ... If keywords/tokens were processed before CURIEs would that work?

... If keywords/tokens were processed before CURIEs would that work?

14:21:49 <ShaneM> ( term | URIor CURIE) +

Shane McCarron: ( term | URIor CURIE) +

14:21:59 <ShaneM> (term | URIorCURIE) +

Shane McCarron: (term | URIorCURIE) +

14:22:10 <manu> ack manu

Manu Sporny: ack manu

14:22:10 <tinkster> ShaneM: Is this the problem? Yes.

Shane McCarron: Is this the problem? Yes.

14:22:22 <manu> +1 for that approach (term | URIorCURIE)

Manu Sporny: +1 for that approach (term | URIorCURIE)

14:22:35 <tinkster> ... The production (term | URIorCURIE) + works everywhere except @about/@resource.

... The production (term | URIorCURIE) + works everywhere except @about/@resource.

14:23:09 <ShaneM> about="foo"

Shane McCarron: about="foo"

14:23:42 <ShaneM> q?

Shane McCarron: q?

14:23:57 <tinkster> ... That "term" is ambiguous with relative URIs. If we've learnt a list of terms from @vocab, then we can disambiguate, but if we're using a default prefix, that doesn't work.

... That "term" is ambiguous with relative URIs. If we've learnt a list of terms from @vocab, then we can disambiguate, but if we're using a default prefix, that doesn't work.

14:24:14 <tinkster> ... One possibility is to disallow terms in @about/@resource.

... One possibility is to disallow terms in @about/@resource.

14:24:24 <jeffs> would demanding "./" & "../" & etc as how relative URIs must be written be useful here?

Jeffrey Sonstein: would demanding "./" & "../" & etc as how relative URIs must be written be useful here?

14:25:00 <manu> q+ to discuss one attribute for creating prefix/token

Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss one attribute for creating prefix/token

14:25:53 <tinkster> markbirbeck: Then is seems we should keep terms and CURIE prefixes separate. When would you want a relative URI in @rel/@rev/@property? Perhaps when defining an OWL ontology.

Mark Birbeck: Then is seems we should keep terms and CURIE prefixes separate. When would you want a relative URI in @rel/@rev/@property? Perhaps when defining an OWL ontology.

14:26:29 <manu> ack manu

Manu Sporny: ack manu

14:26:31 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss one attribute for creating prefix/token

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss one attribute for creating prefix/token

14:27:55 <tinkster> manu: There was one aspect of the token proposal which didn't get support was using them to define profiles. What people did seem to have more support for was combining prefixes and tokens into the same list of mappings. The token proposal is not completely dead.

Manu Sporny: There was one aspect of the token proposal which didn't get support was using them to define profiles. What people did seem to have more support for was combining prefixes and tokens into the same list of mappings. The token proposal is not completely dead.

14:28:08 <Benjamin> What about jeffs proposal? Sounds good, doesn't it?

Benjamin Adrian: What about jeffs proposal? Sounds good, doesn't it?

14:29:15 <tinkster> ShaneM: Requiring authors to use relative URIs which don't look like NMTOKENs is kinda hacky.

Shane McCarron: Requiring authors to use relative URIs which don't look like NMTOKENs is kinda hacky.

14:29:28 <tinkster> ... Semi-resolved for now?

... Semi-resolved for now?

14:29:33 <manu> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

14:30:00 <tinkster> ... Another thing: separating Core from RDFa+XHTML. What goes where?

... Another thing: separating Core from RDFa+XHTML. What goes where?

14:30:47 <tinkster> ... Anything that's not in core creates more work for host language specs.

... Anything that's not in core creates more work for host language specs.

14:32:09 <tinkster> ... There are a whole bunch of attributes which could be defined by the host language or the core (e.g. @href). The approach for many attributes is for Core to say that the host language may define an attribute like @href, and just says how RDFa uses that attribute.

... There are a whole bunch of attributes which could be defined by the host language or the core (e.g. @href). The approach for many attributes is for Core to say that the host language may define an attribute like @href, and just says how RDFa uses that attribute.

14:33:19 <tinkster> manu: this means that people creating host languages need a pretty deep understanding of the thought process behind Core's design. We need to provide clear guidance for how host languages can use RDFa.

Manu Sporny: this means that people creating host languages need a pretty deep understanding of the thought process behind Core's design. We need to provide clear guidance for how host languages can use RDFa.

14:33:42 <tinkster> ShaneM: I think that's everything I needed resolved for FPWD.

Shane McCarron: I think that's everything I needed resolved for FPWD.

14:33:56 <manu> zakim, who is making noise?

Manu Sporny: zakim, who is making noise?

14:34:06 <mgylling> zakim, mute me

Markus Gylling: zakim, mute me

14:34:06 <Zakim> mgylling was already muted, mgylling

Zakim IRC Bot: mgylling was already muted, mgylling

14:34:08 <Zakim> manu, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds

14:34:09 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is noisy?

14:34:20 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (2%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ShaneM (2%)

14:34:36 <tinkster> Markbirbeck: We got a lot of input in RDFa 1.0 - people liked the intro to RDF, and the clear algorithm for parsers.

Mark Birbeck: We got a lot of input in RDFa 1.0 - people liked the intro to RDF, and the clear algorithm for parsers.

14:34:49 <manu> +1 to what mark just said

Manu Sporny: +1 to what mark just said

14:35:08 <jeffs> +1

Jeffrey Sonstein: +1

14:35:40 <tinkster> manu: Can someone do a full review of documents for FPWD?

Manu Sporny: Can someone do a full review of documents for FPWD?

14:35:48 <tinkster> ... other than the authors.

... other than the authors.

14:36:02 <tinkster> ... by Thursday.

... by Thursday.

14:36:18 <manu> ACTION: Mark to review RDFa Core 1.1

ACTION: Mark to review RDFa Core 1.1

14:36:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - Review RDFa Core 1.1 [on Mark Birbeck - due 2010-04-08].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-20 - Review RDFa Core 1.1 [on Mark Birbeck - due 2010-04-08].

14:36:28 <manu> ACTION: Manu to review RDFa Core 1.1

ACTION: Manu to review RDFa Core 1.1

14:36:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - Review RDFa Core 1.1 [on Manu Sporny - due 2010-04-08].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-21 - Review RDFa Core 1.1 [on Manu Sporny - due 2010-04-08].

14:36:34 <tinkster> ... Now on to the RDFa DOM API.

... Now on to the RDFa DOM API.

14:37:07 <manu> Topic: RDFa DOM API FPWD Review

2. RDFa DOM API FPWD Review

14:37:11 <Benjamin> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-dom-api/

Benjamin Adrian: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-dom-api/

14:37:40 <ShaneM> zakim, who is noisy?

Shane McCarron: zakim, who is noisy?

14:37:51 <Zakim> ShaneM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Benjamin (70%), markbirbeck (28%)

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Benjamin (70%), markbirbeck (28%)

14:38:08 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me

Mark Birbeck: zakim, unmute me

14:38:08 <Zakim> markbirbeck was not muted, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck was not muted, markbirbeck

14:38:26 <tinkster> Benjamin: key features are the triple filter and node filter.

Benjamin Adrian: key features are the triple filter and node filter.

14:38:49 <markbirbeck> zakim, mute me

Mark Birbeck: zakim, mute me

14:38:49 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should now be muted

14:39:02 <tinkster> ... I created a heirarchy containing resources, URIs, bnodes, literals, etc. I don't think it's necessary to further subclass literals.

... I created a heirarchy containing resources, URIs, bnodes, literals, etc. I don't think it's necessary to further subclass literals.

14:40:02 <ShaneM> this specification is REALLY pretty!  nice job.

Shane McCarron: this specification is REALLY pretty! nice job.

14:40:29 <ShaneM> zakim, mute me

Shane McCarron: zakim, mute me

14:40:29 <Zakim> ShaneM should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM should now be muted

14:40:55 <manu> q+ to positively rave about filters

Manu Sporny: q+ to positively rave about filters

14:40:56 <tinkster> ... there's an RDFa triple iterator which can be given a filter.

... there's an RDFa triple iterator which can be given a filter.

14:41:44 <tinkster> ... there are a number of predefined triple filters.

... there are a number of predefined triple filters.

14:42:13 <markbirbeck> q+

Mark Birbeck: q+

14:42:39 <markbirbeck> exactly. :)

Mark Birbeck: exactly. :)

14:42:43 <tinkster> ... If we subclass literals, where would we stop?

... If we subclass literals, where would we stop?

14:42:47 <markbirbeck> zakim, unmute me

Mark Birbeck: zakim, unmute me

14:42:47 <Zakim> markbirbeck should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should no longer be muted

14:43:50 <manu> ack me

Manu Sporny: ack me

14:43:50 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to positively rave about filters

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to positively rave about filters

14:43:51 <ShaneM> have you considered using something simple like CSS selectors for filtering?

Shane McCarron: have you considered using something simple like CSS selectors for filtering?

14:43:56 <tinkster> Manu: this is a powerful mechanism that should arm us against people demanding full SPARQL in the API.

Manu Sporny: this is a powerful mechanism that should arm us against people demanding full SPARQL in the API.

14:44:30 <tinkster> markbirbeck: not really a big fan of this. I was supposed to be helping with this draft, but haven't had time.

Mark Birbeck: not really a big fan of this. I was supposed to be helping with this draft, but haven't had time.

14:45:00 <jeffs> +1 to anything we can do to make life easier for ECMAScript/JavaScript authors

Jeffrey Sonstein: +1 to anything we can do to make life easier for ECMAScript/JavaScript authors

14:45:11 <tinkster> ... We should use less RDF-specific terminology. We should be able to return JSON-ish objects.

... We should use less RDF-specific terminology. We should be able to return JSON-ish objects.

14:45:49 <manu> q+ to comment about JSON-ish objects

Manu Sporny: q+ to comment about JSON-ish objects

14:45:55 <manu> ack markbirbeck

Manu Sporny: ack markbirbeck

14:46:12 <ShaneM> q+ to disagree with Mark a little

Shane McCarron: q+ to disagree with Mark a little

14:46:57 <tinkster> Benjamin: Maybe we could flatten it a bit using associative arrays?

Benjamin Adrian: Maybe we could flatten it a bit using associative arrays?

14:46:58 <markbirbeck> http://code.google.com/p/backplanejs/wiki/Rdfj

Mark Birbeck: http://code.google.com/p/backplanejs/wiki/Rdfj

14:48:18 <tinkster> markbirbeck: the linked data API people are using something along the lines of Rdfj. We ought to be using something similar.

Mark Birbeck: the linked data API people are using something along the lines of Rdfj. We ought to be using something similar.

14:48:59 <tinkster> ... If it was the same, then code could switch between linked data API and RDFa API very easily.

... If it was the same, then code could switch between linked data API and RDFa API very easily.

14:49:37 <manu> ack me

Manu Sporny: ack me

14:49:40 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to comment about JSON-ish objects

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to comment about JSON-ish objects

14:49:41 <ShaneM> +1 to not being tied too tightly too javascript.  WebIDL is the right way to specify interfaces.  We need JS but we need to support Ruby / Perl / whatever

Shane McCarron: +1 to not being tied too tightly too javascript. WebIDL is the right way to specify interfaces. We need JS but we need to support Ruby / Perl / whatever

14:50:45 <manu> { "subject": "http://example.org" }

Manu Sporny: { "subject": "http://example.org" }

14:50:53 <tinkster> manu: You're not saying that this current proposal *can't* be serialised to JSON, just that it doesn't serialise nicely.

Manu Sporny: You're not saying that this current proposal *can't* be serialised to JSON, just that it doesn't serialise nicely.

14:51:25 <manu> { "subject": ["http://example.org/predicate" "object"]}

Manu Sporny: { "subject": ["http://example.org/predicate" "object"]}

14:51:28 <tinkster> markbirbeck: Don't use { predicate: x; object: y; }, but use { x: y }.

Mark Birbeck: Don't use { predicate: x; object: y; }, but use { x: y }.

14:51:48 <manu> { "http://example.org/predicate": "object" }

Manu Sporny: { "http://example.org/predicate": "object" }

14:53:01 <manu> ack shanem

Manu Sporny: ack shanem

14:53:02 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to disagree with Mark a little

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to disagree with Mark a little

14:53:04 <tinkster> markbirbeck: we should be aiming this API mostly at Javascript coders.

Mark Birbeck: we should be aiming this API mostly at Javascript coders.

14:53:06 <ShaneM> zakim, unmute me

Shane McCarron: zakim, unmute me

14:53:06 <Zakim> ShaneM was not muted, ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM was not muted, ShaneM

14:53:13 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is noisy?

14:53:24 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (24%), ShaneM (74%), markbirbeck (53%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: manu (24%), ShaneM (74%), markbirbeck (53%)

14:54:10 <Benjamin> +q to add toJSON() method to RDFTriple interface

Benjamin Adrian: +q to add toJSON() method to RDFTriple interface

14:54:19 <tinkster> ShaneM: I disagree a bit. It's not that nice JS structures are evil. And putting "RDF" in the name of every function and class name doesn't seem necessary.

Shane McCarron: I disagree a bit. It's not that nice JS structures are evil. And putting "RDF" in the name of every function and class name doesn't seem necessary.

14:54:37 <manu> q+ to disagree with Shane

Manu Sporny: q+ to disagree with Shane

14:54:46 <markbirbeck> q+

Mark Birbeck: q+

14:54:48 <manu> ack Benjamin

Manu Sporny: ack Benjamin

14:54:48 <Zakim> Benjamin, you wanted to add toJSON() method to RDFTriple interface

Zakim IRC Bot: Benjamin, you wanted to add toJSON() method to RDFTriple interface

14:54:50 <tinkster> ... But this API is not just for the browser.

... But this API is not just for the browser.

14:55:16 <tinkster> Benjamin: what about adding a toJSON method to the RDFTriple interface?

Benjamin Adrian: what about adding a toJSON method to the RDFTriple interface?

14:55:23 <ShaneM> +1 to using toJSON - that's pretty standard

Shane McCarron: +1 to using toJSON - that's pretty standard

14:55:31 <ShaneM> zakim, mute me

Shane McCarron: zakim, mute me

14:55:31 <Zakim> ShaneM should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM should now be muted

14:55:47 <jeffs> +1 to using toJSON for FWD

Jeffrey Sonstein: +1 to using toJSON for FWD

14:56:26 <Steven> zakim, mute mark temporarily

Steven Pemberton: zakim, mute mark temporarily

14:56:26 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should now be muted

14:56:29 <ShaneM> I didn't want to imply we shouldnt support it.  I just think the number of authors who need this API is vanishingly small.

Shane McCarron: I didn't want to imply we shouldnt support it. I just think the number of authors who need this API is vanishingly small.

14:56:41 <Zakim> markbirbeck should now be unmuted again

Zakim IRC Bot: markbirbeck should now be unmuted again

14:56:49 <manu> ack markbirbeck

Manu Sporny: ack markbirbeck

14:56:55 <manu> ack manu

Manu Sporny: ack manu

14:56:57 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to disagree with Shane

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to disagree with Shane

14:57:46 <tinkster> manu: the browser is certainly the target. Browser vendors were very excited by the Microdata API, we want the same excitement from them over RDFa.

Manu Sporny: the browser is certainly the target. Browser vendors were very excited by the Microdata API, we want the same excitement from them over RDFa.

14:58:16 <tinkster> markbirbeck: other programming languages don't need the API as much - they can use whatever APIs they like.

Mark Birbeck: other programming languages don't need the API as much - they can use whatever APIs they like.

14:58:52 <manu> q+ to end the telecon

Manu Sporny: q+ to end the telecon

14:59:11 <Zakim> -jeffs

Zakim IRC Bot: -jeffs

14:59:12 <tinkster> ... my browser allows data to be extracted from RDFa and then modifies the page based on Fresnel views of the data,

... my browser allows data to be extracted from RDFa and then modifies the page based on Fresnel views of the data,

14:59:39 <manu> ack manu

Manu Sporny: ack manu

14:59:39 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to end the telecon

Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to end the telecon

15:00:52 <tinkster> manu: markbirbeck, would you be able to write up your ideas on the API instead of reviewing the Core document?

Manu Sporny: markbirbeck, would you be able to write up your ideas on the API instead of reviewing the Core document?

15:00:55 <tinkster> markbirbeck: yes.

Mark Birbeck: yes.

15:01:03 <tinkster> manu: I'll change the action then.

Manu Sporny: I'll change the action then.

15:01:10 <ShaneM> I will get an update for the RDFa Core out today

Shane McCarron: I will get an update for the RDFa Core out today

15:01:11 <Steven> Possible regrets for next week

Steven Pemberton: Possible regrets for next week

15:01:15 <Zakim> -mgylling

Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling

15:01:16 <Zakim> -RobW

Zakim IRC Bot: -RobW

15:01:16 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

15:01:18 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

15:01:19 <tinkster> ... We'll need to focus on edits, but we're in good shape.

... We'll need to focus on edits, but we're in good shape.

15:01:20 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

15:01:21 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller]

15:01:21 <Zakim> -Benjamin

Zakim IRC Bot: -Benjamin

15:01:30 <Zakim> -knud

Zakim IRC Bot: -knud

15:01:36 <Zakim> -tinkster

Zakim IRC Bot: -tinkster

15:02:07 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?

Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call?

15:02:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu

15:02:39 <Benjamin> You mihght have a look at one existing RDF/JSON format: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-json-res/

Benjamin Adrian: You mihght have a look at one existing RDF/JSON format: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-json-res/



Formatted by CommonScribe


This revision (#1) generated 2010-04-01 17:44:59 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor fix-ups to the minutes to make who is talking more clear, different topic headings.'