16:00:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
16:00:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc
16:00:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swxg
16:00:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
16:00:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
16:00:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
16:00:46 <trackbot> Date: 24 February 2010
16:01:04 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has now started
16:01:11 <Zakim> +DKA
16:01:17 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:01:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA
16:01:45 <Zakim> +AnitaD
16:02:11 <Zakim> +??P41
16:02:26 <melvster> zakim, ??P41 is me
16:02:27 <Zakim> +melvster; got it
16:02:27 <Zakim> +??P42
16:02:44 <yoshiaki> zakim, ??P42 is me
16:02:44 <Zakim> +yoshiaki; got it
16:02:45 <AnitaD> AnitaD has joined #swxg
16:03:04 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:03:13 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:03:13 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:03:15 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:03:15 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:03:42 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:03:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, AnitaD, melvster, yoshiaki, MacTed (muted)
16:04:41 <Zakim> +??P44
16:04:53 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??P44 is hhalpin
16:04:53 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:05:00 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, AnitaD, melvster, yoshiaki, MacTed (muted), hhalpin
16:05:26 <hhalpin> DKA?
16:05:48 <Zakim> +Carine
16:05:54 <hhalpin> topic: Convene SWXG WG  meeting of 2010-02-24T16:00-17:00GMT
16:06:12 <hhalpin> chair: hhalpin
16:06:16 <hhalpin> scribe: DKA
16:06:25 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 17 February 2010 as a true record
16:06:47 <hhalpin> ack, let's hold that off - there was a RRSAgent error
16:06:55 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed. 3rd: TimBL on Clould and Social Computing
16:07:14 <hhalpin> RESOLVED: to meet again Wed. 3rd: TimBL on Clould and Social Computing
16:07:17 <DKA> Great!
16:07:22 <hhalpin> topic: Action Reminders
16:07:36 <hhalpin> DKA? Thoughts about co-ordination?
16:07:47 <hhalpin> [CONTINUES] ACTION: (4 weeks) danbri and DKA to blog or wikize something on co-ordination in the social web
16:08:14 <hhalpin> topic: Final Report of possibility charter extension
16:08:26 <DKA> Harry: Want to spend most of this meeting talking about the final report.
16:08:34 <DKA> DKA: No I don't have an update yet.
16:08:37 <hhalpin> At the end of next month, March 31st.
16:08:44 <DKA> Harry: We expire at the end of next month - the charter.
16:09:14 <hhalpin> "interim" final report
16:09:16 <hhalpin> in March.
16:09:22 <DKA> ... do we want to ask for an extension? We need to come to consensus on charter extension. We will need to produce an interim final report in march.
16:09:29 <hhalpin> AC Meeting in Cambridge March 22-24th
16:09:36 <DKA> ... it would be good to have something drafted by the A.C. meeting.
16:10:16 <hhalpin> June or Sept (3 or 6)
16:10:18 <DKA> ... should we get formal consensus on a charter extension? then decide what we want to put in the final report. Then, what do we need to do and how long an extension do we want to apply for? Expiring June or Sept.
16:10:20 <hhalpin> Any opinions on this one?
16:10:23 <DKA> q+
16:10:26 <hhalpin> ack DKA
16:10:51 <hhalpin> DKA: don't want to see group go into "zombie" mode
16:10:57 <hhalpin> ... but think an extension is warranted
16:11:05 <hhalpin> ... would like to see it still living
16:11:32 <hhalpin> ... we should have a plan to draw our work to close
16:11:56 <hhalpin> ... am happy to support 3 month extension
16:12:03 <melvster> +1
16:12:07 <hhalpin> ... would still want to end work in 3 months if we go for 6 months
16:12:14 <hhalpin> q+
16:12:18 <hhalpin> ack hhalpin
16:12:20 <DKA> ack hh
16:12:37 <melvster> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests
16:12:39 <DKA> Harry: looking over at things we have on our list of to-dos:
16:12:48 <hhalpin> We haven't heard from the other side of the OAuth/WRAP controversy
16:12:58 <hhalpin> Ben Laurie (Google) and Eran (Yahoo) said to present the other side.
16:13:05 <hhalpin> We haven't had a suitable review of OpenSocial
16:13:23 <hhalpin> WebApps WG is in process of rechartering
16:13:41 <hhalpin> So they feel there needs to be some co-ordination between them, Contact API, W3C Widgets, and OpenSocial
16:13:53 <hhalpin> and there's still an open idea of doing an internationalization/accessibility review of OpenSocial
16:14:06 <hhalpin> no problems with the Apace Foundations' OpenSocial (Shindig) implementation
16:14:27 <hhalpin> Google Wave
16:14:47 <hhalpin> ok?
16:14:51 <yoshiaki> s/Apace/Apache
16:14:53 <melvster> yes :)
16:14:58 <hhalpin> major thing
16:15:35 <Zakim> +bblfish
16:15:54 <hhalpin> DKA: What do we do with OAuth/WRAP controversy?
16:16:29 <DKA> Harry: Back to OpenSocial stuff...
16:16:32 <hhalpin> Social API WG spun off
16:16:45 <DKA> Harry: Doug Scheppers thought maybe we could get a social API working group spun off.
16:16:55 <hhalpin> and it would have as a complement (orthogonal but compatible) a Social Formats WG (to handle XML/RDF/JSON) formatting issues
16:17:32 <melvster> yes
16:17:39 <melvster> one sec
16:17:45 <hhalpin> that melvsters URI for comparing PortableContacts with FOAF
16:17:55 <DKA> Harry: Main issue with the social formats working group on our end - melvster has put together a google doc for comparing portable contacts with FOAF.
16:18:21 <DKA> ... other options from XFN, OpenSocial, etc...
16:18:35 <Zakim> +FabGandon
16:18:39 <DKA> ... could be useful to sort out how we sort out all these.
16:18:41 <melvster> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqtcXb4fZGyCdEtNSVJ0LXdvT3dBTHllOTZEbmZFaFE&hl=en
16:18:57 <hhalpin> SIOC and the presence ontologyu
16:19:16 <rreck> rreck has joined #SWXG
16:19:17 <DKA> ... 2nd issue we're facing is to do with the social APIs - we could make a social formats working group that models all the social aspects in RDF but we don't really know if we're going to make a move on this.
16:19:35 <DKA> ... I think all this indicates the need for a 6-month extension.
16:19:48 <Zakim> + +1.218.296.aaaa
16:20:03 <rreck> zakim, +1.218.296.aaaa is me
16:20:03 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
16:20:07 <rreck> zakim, mute me
16:20:07 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
16:20:23 <melvster> +1 for 6 month extension, aim to finish working version of final report in 3 months
16:20:23 <DKA> ... Opinion from google folks - they haven't been sold on the value of going to a standards org for their work. Don't think we can finish the work but we could ask these folks if they want a working group chartered.
16:20:43 <DKA> ... another option - twitter, microblogging and semantic microblogging.
16:21:04 <melvster> AlexPassant wrote semantic open micro blogging too ... http://smob.me/
16:21:17 <hhalpin> Milan's presence ontology would be useful
16:21:26 <DKA> ... Evan might have been interested to write an XG proposal for open microblogging.
16:21:57 <hhalpin> one result if we decide not liason structure and maybe Identity Commons and OpenWeb Foundation.
16:22:09 <DKA> ... we need to have one result of this even if we don't want to charter a working group. We could get a liaison structure going on with Identity Commons and Open Web Foundation.
16:22:19 <melvster> 2 more:  Information Cards, Google Social Graph API/Buzz etc.
16:22:22 <DKA> +1 on putting those liaisons in place.
16:22:42 <melvster> Brad Fitzpatrick
16:23:05 <DKA> DKA: I would also like to further explore how XMPP and the work we introduced around OneSocialWeb could play a role int he architecture of the social web.
16:23:09 <melvster> sure!
16:23:46 <hhalpin> ACTION: danbri to inquire about BradFitzpatrick and Social Graph API
16:23:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-125 - Inquire about BradFitzpatrick and Social Graph API [on Dan Brickley - due 2010-03-03].
16:23:57 <hhalpin> strong opinions re what precisely?
16:24:37 <bblfish> yes, that would be interesting to look at XMPP in web architectural terms, and how one could use rdf in XMPP
16:26:16 <hhalpin> REST-ful API on top of OneSocialWeb
16:26:25 <hhalpin> that would fit in within WebApps Social API WG idea
16:26:32 <hhalpin> and Social Formats WG idea
16:26:41 <melvster> would be awesome
16:27:37 <DKA> Harry: we could do a real working group on this - there's a tangly mess between XMPP APIs, formats, etc... We need some charter-worthy bullet points for a wg charter on this.
16:27:46 <hhalpin> OneSocialWeb stuff kinda is in between XMPP Foundation and W3C
16:27:54 <hhalpin> OpenSocial stuff is between OpenSocial Foundation
16:28:00 <hhalpin> Google Wave is in Google's hand
16:29:01 <bblfish> no, not me
16:29:02 <hhalpin> RDF and XMPP?
16:29:09 <DKA> Harry: could bring in OneSocialWeb, Buzz, Wave, maybe Peter St. André...
16:29:14 <bblfish> I think danbri has done some work 
16:29:15 <DKA> ... for a future call.
16:29:48 <caribou> can this be summarized and presented in a WBS survey?
16:30:12 <DKA> ... also a story around RDF and HTTP.
16:30:44 <DKA> +1 to a survey
16:30:56 <hhalpin> so proposals for future topics within XG that *might* be continued afterwards, right caribou?
16:31:28 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to make WBS survey on ranking future topics to be continued afterwards
16:31:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-126 - Make WBS survey on ranking future topics to be continued afterwards [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-03-03].
16:31:58 <hhalpin> Oslo alliance has gone off rader
16:32:35 <hhalpin> from a use-case perspective - policy languages and provenance
16:32:50 <caribou> there's an XG on Provenance already
16:33:12 <Zakim> -rreck
16:33:16 <rreck> battery died
16:33:21 <hhalpin> np rreck
16:33:33 <hhalpin> topic: interim report
16:34:42 <hhalpin> tagging videos and tagging images and tagging user profile
16:34:54 <hhalpin> "resource" webarch in the use-case document
16:35:24 <hhalpin> their terminology along with the principles of Anita
16:36:00 <melvster> never done anything like it before, but id be happy to help/review
16:36:26 <bblfish> could help with the use cases...
16:36:34 <hhalpin> open-social and the W3C DAP Contact API
16:36:40 <bblfish> (which I was meant to be working on anyway)
16:36:41 <hhalpin> into that google docs?
16:36:46 <hhalpin> Melvin?
16:36:50 <melvster> yes
16:36:57 <melvster> will look at DAP, PoCo includes OpenSocial
16:37:28 <hhalpin> kevin marks has a copy of that in Google Docs
16:37:51 <melvster> sure
16:37:54 <hhalpin> ACTION: melvster to look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc
16:37:54 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - melvster
16:38:01 <hhalpin> ACTION: mcarvalho to look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc
16:38:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - mcarvalho
16:38:09 <melvster> one sec
16:38:15 <melvster> maybe mcarvalh ?
16:38:18 <melvster> ill find it
16:38:21 <hhalpin> ACTION: mcarvalh to look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc
16:38:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-127 - Look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc [on Melvin Carvalho - due 2010-03-03].
16:38:26 <AnitaD> I can support with the landscape overview too
16:38:55 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to get you data on OpenSocial from Kevin Marks, DAP Contact API work from Thomas Roessler
16:38:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-128 - Get you data on OpenSocial from Kevin Marks, DAP Contact API work from Thomas Roessler [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-03-03].
16:39:26 <AnitaD> yes, I can do that and involve our experts :)
16:39:47 <hhalpin> ACTION: Anita to draft XMPP and mobile notes and put them on wiki
16:39:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-129 - Draft XMPP and mobile notes and put them on wiki [on Anita Döhler - due 2010-03-03].
16:43:23 <DKA> [discussion on liaisons with other organizations...]
16:43:50 <hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to discuss liasoning after AC meeting
16:43:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-130 - Discuss liasoning after AC meeting [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2010-03-03].
16:44:04 <DKA> action-130?
16:44:04 <trackbot> ACTION-130 -- Daniel Appelquist to discuss liasoning after AC meeting -- due 2010-03-03 -- OPEN
16:44:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/actions/130
16:44:22 <melvster> for the interim report -- do we also want to include a summary of timbl's recommendations (next week) / F2F notes?
16:44:44 <melvster> sure
16:45:19 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:45:30 <hhalpin> ACTION: melvster to write up F2F notes plus whatever face-to-face stuff TimBl might say
16:45:30 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - melvster
16:45:31 <bblfish> oops cut off
16:45:43 <hhalpin> ACTION: mcarvalh to write up F2F notes plus whatever face-to-face stuff TimBl might say
16:45:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-131 - Write up F2F notes plus whatever face-to-face stuff TimBl might say [on Melvin Carvalho - due 2010-03-03].
16:46:19 <melvster> +1
16:46:22 <DKA> +1 to 6 month extension.
16:46:34 <hhalpin> PROPOSAL: to ask for 6 months extension, but aim for having final report done in 3 months
16:46:36 <DKA> Harry: can we get conesnsus on 6-month extensiton?
16:46:42 <melvster> +1
16:46:43 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:46:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, AnitaD, melvster, yoshiaki, MacTed (muted), hhalpin, Carine, FabGandon
16:46:51 <AnitaD> +1
16:46:58 <MacTed> +1
16:46:58 <FabGandon> +1
16:47:00 <DKA> +1
16:47:01 <hhalpin> yoshi?
16:47:06 <hhalpin> Carine?
16:47:19 <hajons> +1
16:47:21 <hhalpin> yeah we can put it on the web-form
16:47:21 <caribou> 0
16:47:23 <yoshiaki> +1
16:47:27 <rreck> +1
16:47:30 <hhalpin> 0 = abstrain, correct carine?
16:47:30 <Zakim> +bblfish
16:49:09 <hhalpin> robin berjon he couldn't make 4 PM.
16:49:10 <DKA> Harry: next week - because of webapps conflicts, they suggested that our discussion could bleed over past 17:00.
16:49:17 <hhalpin> the other go for 3 PM
16:49:24 <DKA> ... other option is we go for 3.
16:49:43 <hhalpin> DKA? 3 or 5 GMT?
16:49:50 <DKA> All UK times.
16:50:07 <hhalpin> March 10th
16:50:08 <DKA> DKA: I am happy to start at 3 if necessary.
16:50:18 <DKA> Harry: that won't start until March 10th.
16:50:26 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:50:42 <melvster> thanks!
16:50:45 <hhalpin> ACCEPTED:  Consensus on 6-month extension for XG charter, with WBS sent out earlier
16:50:46 <Zakim> -melvster
16:50:56 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:50:59 <Zakim> -DKA
16:51:00 <Zakim> -Carine
16:51:01 <Zakim> -AnitaD
16:51:02 <Zakim> -hhalpin
16:51:09 <Zakim> -FabGandon
16:51:10 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:51:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
16:51:11 <Zakim> -yoshiaki
16:51:13 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has ended
16:51:15 <Zakim> Attendees were DKA, AnitaD, melvster, yoshiaki, MacTed, hhalpin, Carine, bblfish, FabGandon, rreck
16:51:17 <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
16:51:17 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:51:17 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:51:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:51:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-minutes.html trackbot
16:51:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-actions.rdf :
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: danbri to inquire about BradFitzpatrick and Social Graph API [1]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-23-46
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to make WBS survey on ranking future topics to be continued afterwards [2]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-31-28
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: melvster to look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc [3]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-37-54
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mcarvalho to look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc [4]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-38-01
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mcarvalh to look at Contact API and put those in Google Doc [5]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-38-21
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to get you data on OpenSocial from Kevin Marks, DAP Contact API work from Thomas Roessler [6]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-38-55
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Anita to draft XMPP and mobile notes and put them on wiki [7]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-39-47
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DKA to discuss liasoning after AC meeting [8]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-43-50
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: melvster to write up F2F notes plus whatever face-to-face stuff TimBl might say [9]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-45-30
16:51:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mcarvalh to write up F2F notes plus whatever face-to-face stuff TimBl might say [10]
16:51:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/24-swxg-irc#T16-45-43