IRC log of ws-ra on 2010-02-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:26:05 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
20:26:07 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:26:07 [Zakim]
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20:26:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WSRA
20:26:09 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
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Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
20:26:10 [trackbot]
Date: 23 February 2010
20:26:55 [Zakim]
+ +
20:27:27 [Zakim]
20:29:55 [Zakim]
20:30:26 [Tom_Rutt]
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20:31:02 [Bob]
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+ +0125660aabb
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20:33:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.262.aacc
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20:35:23 [Bob]
20:35:36 [Zakim]
20:36:58 [Bob]
scribe: Li
20:37:12 [li]
TOPIC: agenda
20:37:14 [Bob]
20:37:55 [Zakim]
+ +03531803aadd
20:38:01 [MartinC]
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20:38:33 [Bob]
ad 8306 to the agenda
20:38:34 [li]
8306 ready added to agenda
20:39:03 [li]
TOPIC: minutes of feb 16
20:39:07 [Dug]
zakim, who is making noise?
20:39:14 [li]
approved w/o objection
20:39:23 [Zakim]
Dug, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (65%)
20:39:58 [Dug]
20:40:22 [li]
TOPIC: discussion of the above proposal
20:41:10 [li]
dug: introduce high level editorial changes
20:42:31 [li]
...move x-path to section 3.xx
20:43:19 [li]
...from section 7
20:44:13 [li]
...clarify "replace" and "insert" semantics
20:45:35 [li]
..define "insert" as always the child of the target
20:46:27 [li]
...eliminate "child" vs. "sibling" ambiguity
20:47:01 [li]
...a table of samples to show how everything works
20:47:38 [Katy]
20:47:55 [li]
ram: need more time
20:48:07 [Bob]
acl katy
20:48:12 [Bob]
sck katy
20:48:40 [Bob]
dammit, ack katy
20:48:44 [Bob]
ack katy
20:48:52 [Ashok]
20:49:04 [li]
katy: is xsd validation sufficient?
20:49:40 [li]
dug: we could add more text
20:49:42 [Bob]
ack ashok
20:51:08 [li]
bob: conclude by next week?
20:51:23 [li]
ram: not sure
20:51:48 [li]
bob: on agenda next week
20:52:15 [li]
20:52:21 [Dug]
20:52:32 [Ram]
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20:57:09 [Ram]
20:58:04 [li]
dug: introduce the changes to mex
20:58:37 [Bob]
ack ram
20:59:56 [li]
...changes in seciton 3, swap section 4,5, section 6, section 11
21:00:50 [li]
...section 12 is new for bootstrapping
21:01:04 [li]
...and changes to xsd and wsdl
21:03:11 [li]
dug: question about example 8-2
21:03:20 [li]
ashok: ok with it
21:05:21 [gpilz]
21:05:21 [Dug]
21:05:47 [li]
ram: remove line 6 and the corresponding text
21:06:01 [Bob]
ack gp
21:06:02 [asir]
21:06:21 [li]
dug: need more time until next meeting
21:06:26 [Bob]
ack dug
21:06:30 [Bob]
ack asir
21:06:55 [Dug]
I think it would be unfair to accept it today - most people haven't had a chance to review it yet
21:07:21 [li]
asir: if we allow policy in addressing, we think it's premature
21:07:49 [li]
bob: any issue for that assertion?
21:08:27 [li]
asir: we need to describe the semantics associated with the assertion
21:08:53 [gpilz]
21:09:26 [Bob]
ack gp
21:09:31 [li]
asir: an example is premature without behavior
21:10:00 [li]
gil: adding text will address your concern?
21:10:41 [Dug]
21:11:23 [Bob]
ack dug
21:11:32 [li]
asir: there is a guideline on what can be asserted
21:11:33 [asir]
21:11:48 [Ashok]
21:11:54 [li]
dug: how about extensibility?
21:12:03 [gpilz]
can we get a reference on where WS-Policy states that you MUST enumerate the allowable sub-assertions?
21:12:34 [li]
asir: you can insert anything, but have to describe the assertion behavior
21:12:44 [Tom_Rutt]
21:12:48 [Bob]
ack asir
21:13:00 [li]
asir: drop it and open a new issue
21:13:12 [Bob]
ack ashok
21:13:29 [asir]
21:13:54 [Katy]
21:13:59 [li]
ashok: this is not a nested policy, it's an outer policy applied to the endpoint
21:14:17 [Bob]
ack tom
21:14:37 [Dug]
21:14:39 [li]
tom: assertion has to come with behavior/semantics
21:16:00 [Bob]
ack asir
21:16:27 [li]
asir: if it's not a nested, then it is ok; remove it and open a new issue
21:16:35 [Bob]
ack katy
21:16:44 [Zakim]
- +
21:17:13 [li]
katy: need more time on it
21:17:13 [Dug]
21:17:24 [li]
21:17:39 [Bob]
ack li
21:17:55 [li]
li: need more time to read it
21:18:48 [li]
dug: open issue at example 12-1
21:19:21 [li]
bob: anothe week is sufficient?
21:19:44 [li]
...please don't bashing each other over the head on nonnormative examples
21:20:22 [Ram]
21:20:59 [li] this proposal covering all the issues?
21:21:03 [li]
dug: yes
21:21:35 [Bob]
ack ram
21:22:50 [li]
ram: it is useful in general,
21:23:08 [li]
...suggest shortening it for time sake
21:24:01 [Bob]
topic: 8306
21:24:05 [Bob]
proposal at
21:24:13 [Dug]
Gil's comment:
21:24:36 [gpilz]
21:24:46 [li]
ram: describing the proposal
21:25:42 [gpilz]
21:25:46 [Bob]
acl gpi
21:25:52 [Dug]
21:25:54 [Bob]
ack gp
21:26:23 [li]
gil: three terms is confusing
21:26:29 [Bob]
ack dug
21:26:49 [li]
dug: i'm ok with the proposal if we merge the terms
21:26:56 [Dug]
go with "consumer"
21:27:21 [li]
bob: resolved w/o objection
21:28:04 [li]
21:28:46 [Dug]
Note, a (subscription|enumeration context) expiring is not considered to be an unexpected termination, therefore a xxxEnd message MUST NOT be sent in this case.
21:29:15 [Dug]
21:29:18 [gpilz]
21:29:25 [li]
bob: objection to accept it now instead of LC?
21:29:42 [li]
21:29:56 [Dug]
21:31:29 [li]
bob: can we break moratorium to acceit it?
21:31:40 [li]
21:32:00 [li]
bob: 8886 is accepted w/o objection
21:32:08 [Ram]
21:32:42 [li]
gil: the proposal is correct, as expiry is not unexpected
21:33:17 [Dug]
21:33:23 [li]
ram: not sending xxxEnd is going too far
21:33:26 [gpilz]
21:33:36 [Bob]
ack ram
21:34:02 [li]
dug: why not send it?
21:34:19 [Dug]
21:34:27 [Dug]
21:34:30 [Katy]
21:35:08 [Bob]
ack gpi
21:35:46 [Dug]
21:36:39 [Ram]
21:37:05 [li]
gil: ram's solution allows sending End when subscription expires
21:37:12 [Dug]
21:37:33 [li]
...leaving wiggle room is not good
21:37:37 [Bob]
ack yves
21:38:21 [Bob]
ack katy
21:38:24 [li]
yves: i'm ok with it and CWNA
21:39:00 [Bob]
ack ram
21:39:05 [li]
katy: propose is clarify the implicity behavior
21:39:56 [li]
ram: timer may go wrong and we need to send End in that case
21:39:57 [Dug]
new words for the spec: Acts of God MUST NOT occur. :-)
21:40:24 [Yves]
how about cosmic radiations flipping bits in memory? MUST NOT occur? :)
21:40:31 [li]
...if the system detects that abnormality
21:40:58 [li]
ram: come up with some text
21:41:17 [li]
bob: happier if we close it today
21:41:23 [Bob]
ack dug
21:42:10 [Ram]
21:42:32 [li]
dug: it only says timeout does not trigger End event, not prohibiting anyting else triggering it
21:42:47 [li]
21:43:18 [li]
ram: propose new text...
21:44:10 [li]
ram: if timeout is normal, don't send; but allows other cases
21:44:14 [Bob]
ack ram
21:45:05 [li]
bob: it is a LC issue then because no agreement
21:45:37 [gpilz]
21:45:37 [li]
...has been reached after live discussion
21:46:12 [li] will delay our LC schedule
21:46:15 [li] will delay our LC schedule
21:47:37 [li]
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browser disconnected
21:48:32 [li]
bob: let's work on the agenda
21:48:35 [Ashok]
Bob: We agreed to the agenda. This issue was added at the end ... I would rather focus on substantive issues
21:49:11 [Ashok]
... if this issue is not quick to resolve, let's move on
21:49:19 [Dug]
21:50:14 [li]
bob: not permiting changing of business order
21:50:29 [Dug]
q please
21:50:30 [li]
...that have been agreed
21:50:56 [li]
bob: other business?
21:51:00 [Zakim]
21:51:22 [Zakim]
- +1.571.262.aacc
21:51:23 [Zakim]
21:51:23 [Zakim]
21:51:25 [Zakim]
21:51:25 [Zakim]
21:51:25 [Zakim]
21:51:29 [Zakim]
21:51:32 [Zakim]
21:51:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Yves
21:52:27 [Zakim]
- +03531803aadd
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22:02:27 [MartinC]
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disconnecting the lone participant, +0125660aabb, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM
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WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
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Attendees were Bob_Freund, +, Doug_Davis, asoldano, Gilbert, Tom_Rutt, +0125660aabb, li, +1.571.262.aacc, [Microsoft], Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, +03531803aadd
23:41:06 [asir]
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