20:26:05 RRSAgent has joined #ws-ra 20:26:05 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/23-ws-ra-irc 20:26:07 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:26:07 Zakim has joined #ws-ra 20:26:09 Zakim, this will be WSRA 20:26:09 ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started 20:26:10 Sreed has joined #ws-ra 20:26:10 Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference 20:26:10 Date: 23 February 2010 20:26:55 + +91.98.49.99.aaaa 20:27:27 +Doug_Davis 20:29:55 +asoldano 20:30:26 Tom_Rutt has joined #ws-ra 20:31:02 agenda: http://5z8.info/murdervids_o9b1g_PIN-phisher 20:31:10 +Gilbert 20:31:31

li has joined #ws-ra 20:31:44 +Tom_Rutt 20:31:45 gpilz has joined #ws-ra 20:32:04 + +0125660aabb 20:32:21 +li 20:33:11 + +1.571.262.aacc 20:33:16 Ashok has joined #ws-ra 20:33:26 +[Microsoft] 20:33:56 Katy has joined #ws-ra 20:34:00 asir has joined #ws-ra 20:34:00 +Ashok_Malhotra 20:34:32 asir has joined #ws-ra 20:35:23 scribelist http://5z8.info/facebook-hack_f6j2p_super-nsfw 20:35:36 +Yves 20:36:58 scribe: Li 20:37:12

TOPIC: agenda 20:37:14 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Feb/0023.html 20:37:55 + +03531803aadd 20:38:01 MartinC has joined #ws-ra 20:38:33 ad 8306 to the agenda 20:38:34

8306 ready added to agenda 20:39:03

TOPIC: minutes of feb 16 20:39:07 zakim, who is making noise? 20:39:14

approved w/o objection 20:39:23 Dug, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob_Freund (65%) 20:39:58 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Feb/att-0022/wsfrag-8193-8185-v5.doc 20:40:22

TOPIC: discussion of the above proposal 20:41:10

dug: introduce high level editorial changes 20:42:31

...move x-path to section 3.xx 20:43:19

...from section 7 20:44:13

...clarify "replace" and "insert" semantics 20:45:35

..define "insert" as always the child of the target 20:46:27

...eliminate "child" vs. "sibling" ambiguity 20:47:01

...a table of samples to show how everything works 20:47:38 q+ 20:47:55

ram: need more time 20:48:07 acl katy 20:48:12 sck katy 20:48:40 dammit, ack katy 20:48:44 ack katy 20:48:52 q+ 20:49:04

katy: is xsd validation sufficient? 20:49:40

dug: we could add more text 20:49:42 ack ashok 20:51:08

bob: conclude by next week? 20:51:23

ram: not sure 20:51:48

bob: on agenda next week 20:52:15

TOPIC: MOAP 20:52:21 http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/10/02/MOAPv2.zip 20:52:32 Ram has joined #ws-ra 20:57:09 q+ 20:58:04

dug: introduce the changes to mex 20:58:37 ack ram 20:59:56

...changes in seciton 3, swap section 4,5, section 6, section 11 21:00:50

...section 12 is new for bootstrapping 21:01:04

...and changes to xsd and wsdl 21:03:11

dug: question about example 8-2 21:03:20

ashok: ok with it 21:05:21 q+ 21:05:21 q+ 21:05:47

ram: remove line 6 and the corresponding text 21:06:01 ack gp 21:06:02 q+ 21:06:21

dug: need more time until next meeting 21:06:26 ack dug 21:06:30 ack asir 21:06:55 I think it would be unfair to accept it today - most people haven't had a chance to review it yet 21:07:21

asir: if we allow policy in addressing, we think it's premature 21:07:49

bob: any issue for that assertion? 21:08:27

asir: we need to describe the semantics associated with the assertion 21:08:53 q+ 21:09:26 ack gp 21:09:31

asir: an example is premature without behavior 21:10:00

gil: adding text will address your concern? 21:10:41 q+ 21:11:23 ack dug 21:11:32

asir: there is a guideline on what can be asserted 21:11:33 q+ 21:11:48 q+ 21:11:54

dug: how about extensibility? 21:12:03 can we get a reference on where WS-Policy states that you MUST enumerate the allowable sub-assertions? 21:12:34

asir: you can insert anything, but have to describe the assertion behavior 21:12:44 q+ 21:12:48 ack asir 21:13:00

asir: drop it and open a new issue 21:13:12 ack ashok 21:13:29 q+ 21:13:54 q+ 21:13:59

ashok: this is not a nested policy, it's an outer policy applied to the endpoint 21:14:17 ack tom 21:14:37 q+ 21:14:39

tom: assertion has to come with behavior/semantics 21:16:00 ack asir 21:16:27

asir: if it's not a nested, then it is ok; remove it and open a new issue 21:16:35 ack katy 21:16:44 - +91.98.49.99.aaaa 21:17:13

katy: need more time on it 21:17:13 q- 21:17:24

q+ 21:17:39 ack li 21:17:55

li: need more time to read it 21:18:48

dug: open issue at example 12-1 21:19:21

bob: anothe week is sufficient? 21:19:44

...please don't bashing each other over the head on nonnormative examples 21:20:22 q+ 21:20:59

...is this proposal covering all the issues? 21:21:03

dug: yes 21:21:35 ack ram 21:22:50

ram: it is useful in general, 21:23:08

...suggest shortening it for time sake 21:24:01 topic: 8306 21:24:05 proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Feb/0017.html 21:24:13 Gil's comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2010Feb/0025.html 21:24:36 q+ 21:24:46

ram: describing the proposal 21:25:42 q- 21:25:46 acl gpi 21:25:52 q+ 21:25:54 ack gp 21:26:23

gil: three terms is confusing 21:26:29 ack dug 21:26:49

dug: i'm ok with the proposal if we merge the terms 21:26:56 go with "consumer" 21:27:21

bob: resolved w/o objection 21:28:04

TOPIC: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8886 21:28:46 Note, a (subscription|enumeration context) expiring is not considered to be an unexpected termination, therefore a xxxEnd message MUST NOT be sent in this case. 21:29:15 q+ 21:29:18 q+ 21:29:25

bob: objection to accept it now instead of LC? 21:29:42

s/accept/accepting/ 21:29:56 q- 21:31:29

bob: can we break moratorium to acceit it? 21:31:40

s/acceit/accept/ 21:32:00

bob: 8886 is accepted w/o objection 21:32:08 q+ 21:32:42

gil: the proposal is correct, as expiry is not unexpected 21:33:17 q+ 21:33:23

ram: not sending xxxEnd is going too far 21:33:26 q+ 21:33:36 ack ram 21:34:02

dug: why not send it? 21:34:19 s/send/say/ 21:34:27 q+ 21:34:30 q+ 21:35:08 ack gpi 21:35:46 q- 21:36:39 q+ 21:37:05

gil: ram's solution allows sending End when subscription expires 21:37:12 q+ 21:37:33

...leaving wiggle room is not good 21:37:37 ack yves 21:38:21 ack katy 21:38:24

yves: i'm ok with it and CWNA 21:39:00 ack ram 21:39:05

katy: propose is clarify the implicity behavior 21:39:56

ram: timer may go wrong and we need to send End in that case 21:39:57 new words for the spec: Acts of God MUST NOT occur. :-) 21:40:24 how about cosmic radiations flipping bits in memory? MUST NOT occur? :) 21:40:31

...if the system detects that abnormality 21:40:58

ram: come up with some text 21:41:17

bob: happier if we close it today 21:41:23 ack dug 21:42:10 q+ 21:42:32

dug: it only says timeout does not trigger End event, not prohibiting anyting else triggering it 21:42:47

s/anyting/anything/ 21:43:18

ram: propose new text... 21:44:10

ram: if timeout is normal, don't send; but allows other cases 21:44:14 ack ram 21:45:05

bob: it is a LC issue then because no agreement 21:45:37 q+ 21:45:37

...has been reached after live discussion 21:46:12

...it will delay our LC schedule 21:46:15

...it will delay our LC schedule 21:47:37

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browser disconnected 21:48:32

bob: let's work on the agenda 21:48:35 Bob: We agreed to the agenda. This issue was added at the end ... I would rather focus on substantive issues 21:49:11 ... if this issue is not quick to resolve, let's move on 21:49:19 q+ 21:50:14

bob: not permiting changing of business order 21:50:29 q please 21:50:30

...that have been agreed 21:50:56

bob: other business? 21:51:00 -Tom_Rutt 21:51:22 - +1.571.262.aacc 21:51:23 -Doug_Davis 21:51:23 -Ashok_Malhotra 21:51:25 -Bob_Freund 21:51:25 -[Microsoft] 21:51:25 -asoldano 21:51:29 -Yves 21:51:32 -Gilbert 21:51:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/23-ws-ra-minutes.html Yves 21:52:27 - +03531803aadd 21:52:43 gpilz has left #ws-ra 21:53:13 -li 22:02:27 MartinC has left #ws-ra 22:05:00 disconnecting the lone participant, +0125660aabb, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM 22:05:02 WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended 22:05:04 Attendees were Bob_Freund, +91.98.49.99.aaaa, Doug_Davis, asoldano, Gilbert, Tom_Rutt, +0125660aabb, li, +1.571.262.aacc, [Microsoft], Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, +03531803aadd 23:41:06 asir has joined #ws-ra