19:41:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ssn
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19:41:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:41:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7769
19:41:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SSN()3:00PM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
19:41:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Sensor Network Incubator Group Teleconference
19:41:21 <trackbot> Date: 16 February 2010
19:41:38 <Holger> agenda+ Roll call
19:41:45 <Holger> agenda+ Actions from last meeting
19:41:52 <Holger> agenda+ Next steps for SSN Ontology
19:42:00 <Holger> agenda+ What happened in Dagstuhl?
19:42:06 <Holger> agenda+ AOB
19:42:17 <Holger> Chair: Holger
19:42:23 <Holger> Regrets: Oscar, Kevin
19:54:04 <Zakim> INC_SSN()3:00PM has now started
19:54:11 <Zakim> + +036232aaaa
19:54:26 <Holger> zakim, +036232aaaa is me
19:54:26 <Zakim> +Holger; got it
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19:58:59 <laurent_oz> ??P10 is me
19:59:48 <Holger> Laurent, that's "zakim, ??P10 is me" ;-)
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20:00:41 <Arthur> zakim, ??P11 is me
20:00:41 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it
20:02:07 <laurent_oz> zakim, ??P10 is me
20:02:07 <Zakim> +laurent_oz; got it
20:02:41 <Holger> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Holger, Payam, laurent_oz, kerry, Arthur
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20:08:11 <krzysztof_j> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:08:11 <Zakim> +krzysztof_j; got it
20:08:18 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aabb
20:08:31 <Holger> agenda?
20:10:48 <Payam> I can do this
20:10:53 <krzysztof_j> i will do no problem
20:11:20 <Holger> ScribeNick:  laurent_oz
20:12:32 <laurent_oz> Kerry: W3C responded to our request for extension for 6 months positively - to be announced formally
20:13:14 <laurent_oz> Thank you to everybody which help for the draft report to help us to meet the extension
20:13:23 <krzysztof_j> worlds
20:13:36 <krzysztof_j> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/wiki/images/5/5c/Sensor_ontology_alignment_to_dolce.pdf
20:14:09 <laurent_oz> Krzystof_j talking about how to align our ontology with Dolce
20:16:00 <laurent_oz> Discuss difference between observing the process and observation
20:17:14 <laurent_oz> 3rd slide list concepts which needs to be clearly separated to avoid misuse of the SSN ontology
20:19:14 <laurent_oz> Slide 4 lists concepts which could be anchored to DOLCE as perdurants
20:21:10 <laurent_oz> Point to discuss: sensing as an event rather than a process
20:24:12 <laurent_oz> Slide 5 Feature used in two ways
20:24:36 <laurent_oz> Holger: is it easy or hard to align our ontology to Dolce
20:24:37 <michael> +q
20:24:39 <kerry> +q
20:24:45 <laurent_oz> Answer: it's relatively easy
20:24:50 <Holger> ack michael
20:25:42 <Holger> ack kerry
20:26:00 <laurent_oz> Michael: two aspects, conceptualisation and data model - how we manage both aspects?
20:27:22 <laurent_oz> Kerry: it is better to let both aspects of an observation in the ontology
20:27:41 <krzysztof_j> +q
20:27:58 <laurent_oz> But the ontology should not be prescriptive in the format of the record of the observation 
20:28:58 <laurent_oz> Kerry: the ontology should specify that the record of observation  has a time
20:29:17 <krzysztof_j> ack to all you said
20:30:13 <Holger> ack krzysztof_j
20:30:49 <laurent_oz> Krzysztof: challenge for sensors - they are the boundary of the real world and a world where we talk about models
20:31:02 <cory> +q
20:31:15 <Holger> ack cory
20:32:13 <laurent_oz> Cory: if we look at how properties are interpreted depending on how we use observation - location of a record is diffewrent from location of the observation itself
20:32:19 <krzysztof_j> ack
20:32:47 <krzysztof_j> +q
20:34:21 <Holger> ack krzysztof_j
20:34:34 <laurent_oz> Kerry: need clarification on where to attach properties 
20:35:32 <krzysztof_j> the location is also produced by an observation
20:35:59 <krzysztof_j> and hence lat/lon (or whatever) is also an observation record 
20:36:19 <krzysztof_j> therefore we can have information about the location of a real world observation in its observation record
20:37:09 <laurent_oz> Kerry: "everything is an information" = overloading the observation concept
20:37:41 <krzysztof_j> but isn't this the case for OGC's sensor systems, the gps is just part of a huger sensor system
20:37:51 <Payam> +q
20:37:57 <laurent_oz> correction: everything is an observation
20:38:09 <Holger> ack Payam
20:38:57 <laurent_oz> Payam: searching for the observation and searching for the sensors are the two main targets
20:38:57 <laurent_oz> for the scope of the ontology
20:39:50 <cory> +q
20:39:54 <michael> +q
20:39:58 <Holger> ack cory
20:40:16 <laurent_oz> Holger: we need to make clear the linkage between the sensor and observation
20:41:02 <Holger> ack michael
20:41:12 <laurent_oz> Cory: we also have provenance as a use case: provenance - do we point at where the record comes from (is stored) or go back to the sensor 
20:42:22 <laurent_oz> Michael: looking at the last slide, we need to separate the abstract definition of the step and the record that at some time we've done these steps
20:43:19 <Payam> +q
20:43:37 <Zakim> -kerry
20:44:07 <Payam> -q
20:44:09 <Zakim> +kerry
20:44:53 <laurent_oz> Holger: what we have in the ontology is not the"real world event obsrvation" - question to K. : observation as an event is the real world observation and we need to put what's corresponding to the record (the produced data) would be in another place 
20:44:56 <Payam> +q
20:45:54 <krzysztof_j> +q
20:46:23 <michael> observation has feature of interest, procedure etc - but they are restrictions on domains and range of properties, not observation
20:46:29 <Holger> ack Payam
20:46:48 <michael> this was because we haven't made a decision as to if they were defining aspects of an observation or things it may have
20:46:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:47:11 <michael> yes
20:47:23 <laurent_oz> - Payam understands Michael's separation of concepts - 3 parts
20:47:23 <laurent_oz> Device itself
20:47:23 <laurent_oz> the process it does 
20:47:23 <laurent_oz> The result
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20:49:29 <krzysztof_j> +q
20:50:53 <Payam> The modelling could be done in layers
20:51:13 <Payam> starting from the device which does the observation 
20:51:29 <Payam> then modelling the process and observation
20:52:02 <Payam> the accuracy and other quality of information parameters could be added to this model in different layers later
20:52:14 <kerry> I think K makes a good point: restrictions on the observation woud b cleaner than on the properties
20:52:58 <laurent_oz> Krzysztof's question was on how we use restrictions (someValuesFrom vs. domain/range) and the level of reasoning support we want to have
20:53:33 <michael> +q
20:53:49 <Holger> ack krzysztof_j
20:54:17 <Holger> ack michael
20:54:28 <laurent_oz> Kerry also prefers the ontology design style where restriction are used locally
20:54:43 <laurent_oz> Michael: we have made those commitments
20:55:30 <krzysztof_j> +q
20:55:35 <Holger> ack krzysztof_j
20:55:44 <laurent_oz> Michael: Observation is defined by having those restrictions
20:57:39 <krzysztof_j> ack
20:57:57 <laurent_oz> Kerry: can we have a vote on our choice to use local restrictions?
20:58:28 <laurent_oz> Rather than domain and range attached to properties 
20:59:05 <krzysztof_j> +1
20:59:19 <michael> +q
20:59:23 <laurent_oz> Kerry adding an exception for the datatype properties where the range is expected to be defined
21:00:48 <krzysztof_j> maybe, but this is again about ontological commitments and i would always try to reduce them to a minimum
21:01:32 <laurent_oz> Kerry notes that at this stage we have not used datatype properties
21:01:32 <laurent_oz> but we may do so when we become more concrete
21:01:45 <Holger> vote: preferred usage of local restrictions over global restrictions
21:01:57 <Payam> +1
21:01:57 <laurent_oz> +1
21:01:58 <krzysztof_j> +1
21:02:00 <kerry> +1
21:02:01 <cory> +1
21:02:01 <Manfred_DERI> +1
21:02:11 <michael> +1
21:02:17 <Holger> +1
21:02:51 <laurent_oz> +q
21:02:53 <kerry> +q
21:03:00 <michael> -q
21:03:02 <Holger> ack michael
21:03:21 <Holger> ack laurent_oz
21:03:24 <krzysztof_j> (i have to leave in 2min, sorry (I would like to do the DOLCE alignment))
21:03:43 <krzysztof_j> this would be difficult
21:04:53 <laurent_oz> Laurent: making the point that it would be good to leave the user having the choice to import DOLCE or not
21:05:25 <kerry> +q
21:05:44 <Holger> ack kerry
21:06:05 <laurent_oz> Krzysztof: there are cases where the decision to import would create a class of external statements which would become tricky to manage (e.g. a property declared at the top level as transitive) 
21:06:53 <krzysztof_j> I will, thanks for all the comments!
21:06:59 <laurent_oz> Kerry thinks that if we carefully manage it, we should not have problems as long as we repeat those statements which are also in DOLCE
21:07:08 <krzysztof_j> cu
21:07:14 <Zakim> -krzysztof_j
21:08:06 <laurent_oz> Kerry will present what she has on device next week
21:08:40 <Manfred_DERI> great!
21:09:17 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
21:09:17 <michael> michael has left #ssn
21:09:18 <cory> bye
21:09:18 <Zakim> -Payam
21:09:20 <Arthur> Arthur has left #ssn
21:09:20 <Zakim> -Arthur
21:09:22 <Zakim> -michael
21:09:32 <Holger> zakim, bye 
21:09:32 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Holger, Payam, kerry, Arthur, laurent_oz, michael, krzysztof_j, +1.937.775.aabb, [IPcaller]
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21:09:40 <Holger> rrsagent, make log public 
21:09:53 <Holger> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-ssn-minutes.html Holger
21:10:03 <Holger> rrsagent, bye
21:10:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items