15:49:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:49:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-irc
15:49:53 <csma> zakim, this will be rif
15:49:53 <Zakim> ok, csma; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:50:50 <csma> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
15:51:07 <csma> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/0027.html
15:51:24 <csma> Meeting: RIF telecon 16 February 2010
15:51:33 <csma> RRSagent, make log public
15:51:43 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-minutes.html csma
15:51:48 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
15:52:39 <csma> Regrets: DaveReynolds HassanAitKaci JosDeBruijn  LeoraMorgenstern
15:53:01 <csma> zakim, reset agenda
15:53:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'reset agenda', csma
15:53:08 <csma> zakim, clear agenda
15:53:08 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:53:18 <csma> agendum+ Admin
15:53:32 <csma> agendum+ Liaisons
15:53:39 <csma> agendum+ Actions review
15:53:59 <csma> agendum+  Public comments
15:54:29 <csma> agendum+ Implementations
15:54:36 <csma> agendum+ Test cases
15:54:45 <csma> agendum+ AOB (next meeting)
15:58:25 <csma> Axel, will you join the RIF telecon?
16:00:01 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
16:00:08 <Zakim> + +1.845.227.aaaa
16:00:19 <ChrisW> zakim, aaaa is me
16:00:19 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:00:23 <Zakim> + +5875aabb
16:00:41 <csma> zakim, aabb is me
16:00:41 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:01:08 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
16:02:34 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
16:03:02 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
16:03:02 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
16:03:10 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
16:03:10 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
16:03:24 <ChrisW> ack me
16:03:30 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:03:51 <AdrianP> AdrianP has joined #rif
16:04:21 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
16:04:21 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
16:04:45 <ChrisW> ack me
16:04:56 <csma> muting works, indeed
16:05:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:05:44 <csma> Scribe: Harold Boley
16:05:45 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
16:05:45 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
16:05:54 <csma> scribenick: Harold
16:06:02 <csma> next item
16:06:09 <AdrianP> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:06:09 <Zakim> +AdrianP; got it
16:06:09 <StellaMitchell> StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:06:20 <csma> PROPOSED: approve the minutes of last week
16:06:22 <csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/att-0023/rif-telecon-minutes-9Feb2010.html
16:06:28 <Gary_Hallmark> Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
16:06:55 <Zakim> +Stella_Mitchell
16:06:59 <csma> RESOLVED: approved the minutes of last week
16:07:08 <ChrisW> ack me
16:07:15 <Zakim> + +1.503.533.aacc
16:07:24 <Gary> zakim, aacc is me
16:07:24 <Zakim> +Gary; got it
16:07:24 <AdrianP> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:07:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisW, csma, Harold, Sandro, AdrianP, Stella_Mitchell, Gary
16:08:23 <sandro> csma, your phone isnt working
16:08:24 <ChrisW> can you try with a real phoen?
16:08:44 <csma> I will call with another phone
16:08:55 <Zakim> -csma
16:09:18 <ChrisW> zakim, list agenda
16:09:18 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:09:19 <Zakim> 1. Admin [from csma]
16:09:19 <Zakim> 2. Liaisons [from csma]
16:09:20 <Zakim> 3. Actions review [from csma]
16:09:20 <Zakim> 4. Public comments [from csma]
16:09:21 <Zakim> 5. Implementations [from csma]
16:09:21 <Zakim> 6. Test cases [from csma]
16:09:23 <Zakim> 7. AOB (next meeting) [from csma]
16:09:31 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 2
16:09:31 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Liaisons" taken up [from csma]
16:10:25 <Harold> Sandro: SPARQL-RIF compatibility volunteer found from the SPARQL side.
16:10:50 <Harold> Chris: Also RDB2RDF WG seems relevant.
16:11:01 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:11:07 <Zakim> + +95356aadd
16:11:12 <Harold> Sandro: Still early stage.
16:11:37 <csma> zakim, aadd is me
16:11:37 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:11:59 <Zakim> + +1.631.833.aaee
16:12:00 <Harold> ... RDB2RDF Team Contact is aware of RIF.
16:12:13 <MichaelKifer> zakim, aaee is me
16:12:13 <Zakim> +MichaelKifer; got it
16:13:07 <Harold> ... In the next few months should get well-known in the SemWeb community. Then this will help with SPARQL, RDB2RDF, etc.
16:13:13 <ChrisW> zakim, take up item 3
16:13:13 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Actions review" taken up [from csma]
16:13:13 <csma> next item
16:13:24 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
16:13:24 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
16:13:32 <ChrisW> continued
16:13:36 <ChrisW> (just practicing)
16:14:36 <StellaMitchell> modify_noloop is marked as obsolete and removed from test suite (leora's action)
16:15:02 <Harold> Sandro: Kendell will not likely have RIF implemented.
16:15:51 <ChrisW> ack me
16:16:48 <Harold> Chris: Tried (twice) to contact Action 973 person.
16:18:18 <Harold> ... Sent email to Oracle.
16:22:16 <StellaMitchell> I only read it briefly, looked ok to me
16:23:37 <Harold> Christian: All-Builtins test case is obsolete.
16:24:25 <csma> next item
16:27:29 <StellaMitchell> modify_noloop has been removed
16:27:42 <StellaMitchell> it is marked as obsolete already
16:29:03 <csma> next item
16:29:27 <csma> zakim, take up item 4
16:29:27 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Public comments" taken up [from csma]
16:30:08 <csma> zakim, take up item 5
16:30:08 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Implementations" taken up [from csma]
16:30:56 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
16:30:56 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
16:31:56 <Harold> Gary: Oracle implementation should be compliant. But have not done compliance testing yet.
16:32:06 <Harold> Christian: Same for IBM/ILOG.
16:33:42 <ChrisWelty> ChrisWelty has joined #rif
16:34:02 <Harold> Christian: Dave's OWL2RL specification in RIF-Core would give us one more (Core and) PRD example.
16:34:34 <Harold> Gary: Not main application area.
16:34:53 <Harold> Christian: Would help to pass the exit criteria.
16:35:28 <Harold> Gary: Not near-term. First need to implement import of RDF graphs.
16:35:50 <Harold> Christian: Yes, import should soon be added.
16:36:44 <Harold> s/should soon/is a requirement for OWL2RL to/
16:37:18 <Harold> Sandro: RIF2Python parser being worked on.
16:37:50 <Harold> ... Hoping for direct (rather than RDF-based) semantics.
16:38:23 <Harold> I am in contact with Jos de Roo, continuing to remind him.
16:39:02 <Harold> Adrian: Have to think about restarting implementation -- likely RIF-Core first.
16:39:47 <Harold> Christian: Promised RIF-DTB implementation still outstanding.
16:39:48 <csma> next item
16:40:06 <csma> zakim, take up item 6
16:40:06 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Test cases" taken up [from csma]
16:40:30 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/AssertRetract2
16:42:14 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
16:42:36 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/AssertRetract2
16:42:48 <Gary> +1
16:42:48 <ChrisW> +1
16:42:50 <AdrianP> +1
16:42:51 <Harold> +1
16:42:57 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/AssertRetract2
16:43:24 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:46:08 <StellaMitchell> I can check the spec
16:46:15 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-dtb/#pred:XMLLiteral-equal
16:47:29 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#dfn-rdf-XMLLiteral
16:50:34 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:50:49 <ChrisW> +1
16:50:57 <AdrianP> +1
16:51:01 <Gary> +1
16:51:04 <Harold> +1
16:51:12 <MichaelKifer> +1
16:51:28 <sandro> +1
16:52:08 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:52:37 <ChrisW> what about External( pred:XMLLiteral-equal( "<br   />"^^xs:XMLLiteral "<br/>"^^xs:XMLLiteral ) )
16:53:08 <ChrisW> ack me
16:54:00 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
16:54:00 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
16:56:02 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_anyURI
16:59:44 <sandro> sandro: what about:   External( pred:is-literal-anyURI( External ( xs:anyURI ( "http"^^xs:string ) ) ) )
17:00:24 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Casting_to_XML_Schema_Datatypes
17:00:41 <sandro> sandro: what about:   External( pred:is-literal-int( External ( xs:int ( "x"^^xs:string ) ) ) )
17:00:54 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-dtb/#Datatype_Conversion_and_Casting
17:01:20 <ChrisW> ack me
17:02:05 <sandro> So this is undefined, neither negative entailed nor positive entailed....?   Ugh.
17:04:52 <Gary> sandro: need guarded casts, e.g. is-castable-to-int
17:05:34 <sandro> how about casting functions return some specific out-of-bounds thing?
17:06:32 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
17:06:32 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
17:07:22 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_anyURI
17:07:32 <Gary> +1
17:07:38 <Harold> +1
17:07:56 <ChrisW> +1
17:07:57 <StellaMitchell> +1
17:07:57 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_anyURI
17:08:00 <sandro> +1
17:08:16 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ElementEqualityFromListEquality
17:08:46 <ChrisW> looks good
17:09:48 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ElementEqualityFromListEquality
17:09:55 <ChrisW> +1
17:09:59 <sandro> +1
17:10:05 <Harold> +1
17:10:07 <Gary> +1
17:10:10 <AdrianP> +1
17:10:13 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ElementEqualityFromListEquality
17:10:43 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Equality_in_conclusion_3
17:15:58 <ChrisW> ack me
17:19:48 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Equality_in_conclusion_3
17:19:49 <Harold> +1
17:19:53 <sandro> +1
17:21:44 <MichaelKifer> +1
17:21:57 <ChrisW> +1
17:21:57 <AdrianP> +1
17:22:07 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Equality_in_conclusion_3
17:22:33 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
17:22:33 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
17:22:36 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListConstantEquality
17:22:54 <ChrisW> looks good
17:24:02 <sandro> this is only true in the case of head equality....
17:24:28 <ChrisW> ack me
17:25:05 <ChrisW> zakim, mute me
17:25:05 <Zakim> ChrisW should now be muted
17:25:43 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListConstantEquality
17:25:49 <Gary> +1
17:25:49 <Harold> +1
17:25:54 <ChrisW> +1
17:25:54 <AdrianP> +1
17:26:03 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListConstantEquality
17:26:33 <ChrisW> looks good
17:26:38 <csma> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListEqualityFromElementEquality
17:27:04 <csma> PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListEqualityFromElementEquality
17:27:04 <sandro> +1
17:27:51 <ChrisW> ex:s(List(ex:a)) = ex:s(List(ex:b)) also!
17:27:58 <ChrisW> :)
17:28:17 <ChrisW> +1
17:28:24 <csma> RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListEqualityFromElementEquality
17:28:30 <Harold> +1
17:29:23 <Zakim> -AdrianP
17:29:26 <Zakim> -MichaelKifer
17:29:27 <ChrisW> ack me
17:29:30 <Zakim> -Gary
17:29:32 <Zakim> -Stella_Mitchell
17:29:32 <AdrianP> bye
17:29:34 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has left #rif
17:29:36 <ChrisW> zakim, list attendees
17:29:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.845.227.aaaa, ChrisW, +5875aabb, csma, Harold, Sandro, AdrianP, Stella_Mitchell, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary, +95356aadd, +1.631.833.aaee,
17:29:36 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
17:29:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-minutes.html csma
17:29:39 <Zakim> ... MichaelKifer
17:29:49 <csma> rrsagent, make minutes
17:29:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-minutes.html csma
17:29:53 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:29:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisW, Harold, Sandro, csma
17:30:36 <Zakim> -Harold
17:33:46 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:33:47 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:33:59 <Zakim> -csma
17:34:01 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:34:02 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.845.227.aaaa, ChrisW, +5875aabb, csma, Harold, Sandro, AdrianP, Stella_Mitchell, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary, +95356aadd, +1.631.833.aaee, MichaelKifer