IRC log of rif on 2010-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:49:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:49:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-irc
15:49:53 [csma]
zakim, this will be rif
15:49:53 [Zakim]
ok, csma; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
15:50:50 [csma]
Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
15:51:07 [csma]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/0027.html
15:51:24 [csma]
Meeting: RIF telecon 16 February 2010
15:51:33 [csma]
RRSagent, make log public
15:51:43 [csma]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-minutes.html csma
15:51:48 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
15:52:39 [csma]
Regrets: DaveReynolds HassanAitKaci JosDeBruijn LeoraMorgenstern
15:53:01 [csma]
zakim, reset agenda
15:53:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'reset agenda', csma
15:53:08 [csma]
zakim, clear agenda
15:53:08 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:53:18 [csma]
agendum+ Admin
15:53:32 [csma]
agendum+ Liaisons
15:53:39 [csma]
agendum+ Actions review
15:53:59 [csma]
agendum+ Public comments
15:54:29 [csma]
agendum+ Implementations
15:54:36 [csma]
agendum+ Test cases
15:54:45 [csma]
agendum+ AOB (next meeting)
15:58:25 [csma]
Axel, will you join the RIF telecon?
16:00:01 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
16:00:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.845.227.aaaa
16:00:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, aaaa is me
16:00:19 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:00:23 [Zakim]
+ +5875aabb
16:00:41 [csma]
zakim, aabb is me
16:00:41 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:01:08 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
16:02:34 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
16:03:02 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me
16:03:02 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
16:03:10 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
16:03:10 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
16:03:24 [ChrisW]
ack me
16:03:30 [Zakim]
+Sandro
16:03:51 [AdrianP]
AdrianP has joined #rif
16:04:21 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
16:04:21 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
16:04:45 [ChrisW]
ack me
16:04:56 [csma]
muting works, indeed
16:05:12 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:05:44 [csma]
Scribe: Harold Boley
16:05:45 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
16:05:45 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
16:05:54 [csma]
scribenick: Harold
16:06:02 [csma]
next item
16:06:09 [AdrianP]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:06:09 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
16:06:09 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
16:06:20 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve the minutes of last week
16:06:22 [csma]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/att-0023/rif-telecon-minutes-9Feb2010.html
16:06:28 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
16:06:55 [Zakim]
+Stella_Mitchell
16:06:59 [csma]
RESOLVED: approved the minutes of last week
16:07:08 [ChrisW]
ack me
16:07:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.533.aacc
16:07:24 [Gary]
zakim, aacc is me
16:07:24 [Zakim]
+Gary; got it
16:07:24 [AdrianP]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:07:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, csma, Harold, Sandro, AdrianP, Stella_Mitchell, Gary
16:08:23 [sandro]
csma, your phone isnt working
16:08:24 [ChrisW]
can you try with a real phoen?
16:08:44 [csma]
I will call with another phone
16:08:55 [Zakim]
-csma
16:09:18 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
16:09:18 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
16:09:19 [Zakim]
1. Admin [from csma]
16:09:19 [Zakim]
2. Liaisons [from csma]
16:09:20 [Zakim]
3. Actions review [from csma]
16:09:20 [Zakim]
4. Public comments [from csma]
16:09:21 [Zakim]
5. Implementations [from csma]
16:09:21 [Zakim]
6. Test cases [from csma]
16:09:23 [Zakim]
7. AOB (next meeting) [from csma]
16:09:31 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 2
16:09:31 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liaisons" taken up [from csma]
16:10:25 [Harold]
Sandro: SPARQL-RIF compatibility volunteer found from the SPARQL side.
16:10:50 [Harold]
Chris: Also RDB2RDF WG seems relevant.
16:11:01 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:11:07 [Zakim]
+ +95356aadd
16:11:12 [Harold]
Sandro: Still early stage.
16:11:37 [csma]
zakim, aadd is me
16:11:37 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:11:59 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.833.aaee
16:12:00 [Harold]
... RDB2RDF Team Contact is aware of RIF.
16:12:13 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, aaee is me
16:12:13 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
16:13:07 [Harold]
... In the next few months should get well-known in the SemWeb community. Then this will help with SPARQL, RDB2RDF, etc.
16:13:13 [ChrisW]
zakim, take up item 3
16:13:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Actions review" taken up [from csma]
16:13:13 [csma]
next item
16:13:24 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
16:13:24 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
16:13:32 [ChrisW]
continued
16:13:36 [ChrisW]
(just practicing)
16:14:36 [StellaMitchell]
modify_noloop is marked as obsolete and removed from test suite (leora's action)
16:15:02 [Harold]
Sandro: Kendell will not likely have RIF implemented.
16:15:51 [ChrisW]
ack me
16:16:48 [Harold]
Chris: Tried (twice) to contact Action 973 person.
16:18:18 [Harold]
... Sent email to Oracle.
16:22:16 [StellaMitchell]
I only read it briefly, looked ok to me
16:23:37 [Harold]
Christian: All-Builtins test case is obsolete.
16:24:25 [csma]
next item
16:27:29 [StellaMitchell]
modify_noloop has been removed
16:27:42 [StellaMitchell]
it is marked as obsolete already
16:29:03 [csma]
next item
16:29:27 [csma]
zakim, take up item 4
16:29:27 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Public comments" taken up [from csma]
16:30:08 [csma]
zakim, take up item 5
16:30:08 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Implementations" taken up [from csma]
16:30:56 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
16:30:56 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
16:31:56 [Harold]
Gary: Oracle implementation should be compliant. But have not done compliance testing yet.
16:32:06 [Harold]
Christian: Same for IBM/ILOG.
16:33:42 [ChrisWelty]
ChrisWelty has joined #rif
16:34:02 [Harold]
Christian: Dave's OWL2RL specification in RIF-Core would give us one more (Core and) PRD example.
16:34:34 [Harold]
Gary: Not main application area.
16:34:53 [Harold]
Christian: Would help to pass the exit criteria.
16:35:28 [Harold]
Gary: Not near-term. First need to implement import of RDF graphs.
16:35:50 [Harold]
Christian: Yes, import should soon be added.
16:36:44 [Harold]
s/should soon/is a requirement for OWL2RL to/
16:37:18 [Harold]
Sandro: RIF2Python parser being worked on.
16:37:50 [Harold]
... Hoping for direct (rather than RDF-based) semantics.
16:38:23 [Harold]
I am in contact with Jos de Roo, continuing to remind him.
16:39:02 [Harold]
Adrian: Have to think about restarting implementation -- likely RIF-Core first.
16:39:47 [Harold]
Christian: Promised RIF-DTB implementation still outstanding.
16:39:48 [csma]
next item
16:40:06 [csma]
zakim, take up item 6
16:40:06 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Test cases" taken up [from csma]
16:40:30 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/AssertRetract2
16:42:14 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
16:42:36 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/AssertRetract2
16:42:48 [Gary]
+1
16:42:48 [ChrisW]
+1
16:42:50 [AdrianP]
+1
16:42:51 [Harold]
+1
16:42:57 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/AssertRetract2
16:43:24 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:46:08 [StellaMitchell]
I can check the spec
16:46:15 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-dtb/#pred:XMLLiteral-equal
16:47:29 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#dfn-rdf-XMLLiteral
16:50:34 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:50:49 [ChrisW]
+1
16:50:57 [AdrianP]
+1
16:51:01 [Gary]
+1
16:51:04 [Harold]
+1
16:51:12 [MichaelKifer]
+1
16:51:28 [sandro]
+1
16:52:08 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_XMLLiteral
16:52:37 [ChrisW]
what about External( pred:XMLLiteral-equal( "<br />"^^xs:XMLLiteral "<br/>"^^xs:XMLLiteral ) )
16:53:08 [ChrisW]
ack me
16:54:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
16:54:00 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
16:56:02 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_anyURI
16:59:44 [sandro]
sandro: what about: External( pred:is-literal-anyURI( External ( xs:anyURI ( "http"^^xs:string ) ) ) )
17:00:24 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Casting_to_XML_Schema_Datatypes
17:00:41 [sandro]
sandro: what about: External( pred:is-literal-int( External ( xs:int ( "x"^^xs:string ) ) ) )
17:00:54 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-dtb/#Datatype_Conversion_and_Casting
17:01:20 [ChrisW]
ack me
17:02:05 [sandro]
So this is undefined, neither negative entailed nor positive entailed....? Ugh.
17:04:52 [Gary]
sandro: need guarded casts, e.g. is-castable-to-int
17:05:34 [sandro]
how about casting functions return some specific out-of-bounds thing?
17:06:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
17:06:32 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
17:07:22 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_anyURI
17:07:32 [Gary]
+1
17:07:38 [Harold]
+1
17:07:56 [ChrisW]
+1
17:07:57 [StellaMitchell]
+1
17:07:57 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Builtins_anyURI
17:08:00 [sandro]
+1
17:08:16 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ElementEqualityFromListEquality
17:08:46 [ChrisW]
looks good
17:09:48 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ElementEqualityFromListEquality
17:09:55 [ChrisW]
+1
17:09:59 [sandro]
+1
17:10:05 [Harold]
+1
17:10:07 [Gary]
+1
17:10:10 [AdrianP]
+1
17:10:13 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ElementEqualityFromListEquality
17:10:43 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Equality_in_conclusion_3
17:15:58 [ChrisW]
ack me
17:19:48 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Equality_in_conclusion_3
17:19:49 [Harold]
+1
17:19:53 [sandro]
+1
17:21:44 [MichaelKifer]
+1
17:21:57 [ChrisW]
+1
17:21:57 [AdrianP]
+1
17:22:07 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Equality_in_conclusion_3
17:22:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
17:22:33 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
17:22:36 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListConstantEquality
17:22:54 [ChrisW]
looks good
17:24:02 [sandro]
this is only true in the case of head equality....
17:24:28 [ChrisW]
ack me
17:25:05 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute me
17:25:05 [Zakim]
ChrisW should now be muted
17:25:43 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListConstantEquality
17:25:49 [Gary]
+1
17:25:49 [Harold]
+1
17:25:54 [ChrisW]
+1
17:25:54 [AdrianP]
+1
17:26:03 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListConstantEquality
17:26:33 [ChrisW]
looks good
17:26:38 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListEqualityFromElementEquality
17:27:04 [csma]
PROPOSED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListEqualityFromElementEquality
17:27:04 [sandro]
+1
17:27:51 [ChrisW]
ex:s(List(ex:a)) = ex:s(List(ex:b)) also!
17:27:58 [ChrisW]
:)
17:28:17 [ChrisW]
+1
17:28:24 [csma]
RESOLVED: approve http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ListEqualityFromElementEquality
17:28:30 [Harold]
+1
17:29:23 [Zakim]
-AdrianP
17:29:26 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
17:29:27 [ChrisW]
ack me
17:29:30 [Zakim]
-Gary
17:29:32 [Zakim]
-Stella_Mitchell
17:29:32 [AdrianP]
bye
17:29:34 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has left #rif
17:29:36 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
17:29:36 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.845.227.aaaa, ChrisW, +5875aabb, csma, Harold, Sandro, AdrianP, Stella_Mitchell, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary, +95356aadd, +1.631.833.aaee,
17:29:36 [csma]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:29:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-minutes.html csma
17:29:39 [Zakim]
... MichaelKifer
17:29:49 [csma]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:29:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-rif-minutes.html csma
17:29:53 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:29:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ChrisW, Harold, Sandro, csma
17:30:36 [Zakim]
-Harold
17:33:46 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:33:47 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:33:59 [Zakim]
-csma
17:34:01 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:34:02 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.845.227.aaaa, ChrisW, +5875aabb, csma, Harold, Sandro, AdrianP, Stella_Mitchell, +1.503.533.aacc, Gary, +95356aadd, +1.631.833.aaee, MichaelKifer