13:56:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #awwsw
13:56:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-irc
13:56:56 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #awwsw
13:57:03 <dbooth> zakim, this will be awwsw
13:57:03 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, dbooth
13:57:49 <mhausenblas> heya
13:58:02 <dbooth> hi michael
13:58:04 <mhausenblas> ouch, again your telecon bridge, hm?
13:58:16 <dbooth> sure
13:58:24 <dbooth> i'll get it for you
13:59:40 <DanC> DanC has joined #awwsw
14:03:29 <DanC> Zakim, room for 6?
14:03:30 <Zakim> ok, DanC; conference Team_(awwsw)14:03Z scheduled with code 26633 (CONF3) for 60 minutes until 1503Z
14:03:50 <dbooth> danc, w'er using my bridge i gave you in private IRC
14:04:06 <jar> jar has joined #awwsw
14:04:07 <dbooth> danc, shall we switch to zakim?
14:04:25 <jar> hello... no luck with zakim just now
14:04:34 <DanC> symptoms?
14:04:42 <jar> i sent email to amy yesterday, too late i guess
14:04:50 <DanC> passcode?
14:04:51 <jar> 'that code is not valid'
14:04:55 <DanC> Zakim, passcode?
14:04:55 <Zakim> the conference code is 26633 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DanC
14:05:04 <jar> i'll try again
14:05:10 <DanC> I just did an instant telcon
14:05:20 <Zakim> Team_(awwsw)14:03Z has now started
14:05:22 <Zakim> +DanC
14:05:34 <Zakim> +[CubeSpace]
14:05:49 <dbooth> ok, we/ll switch to zakim.
14:05:51 <jar> zakim, cubespace is jar
14:05:51 <Zakim> +jar; got it
14:05:59 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
14:06:26 <Zakim> + +1.216.445.aaaa
14:06:35 <dbooth> zakim, aaaa is me
14:06:35 <Zakim> +dbooth; got it
14:07:17 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
14:07:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see DanC, jar, mhausenblas, dbooth
14:07:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see jar, DanC, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, mhausenblas, trackbot
14:08:13 <mhausenblas> ACTIONS?
14:08:26 <DanC> trackbot, action-1?
14:08:26 <trackbot> Sorry, DanC, I don't understand 'trackbot, action-1?'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:08:33 <DanC> action-1?
14:08:33 <trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Stuart Williams to send us a link -- due 2007-12-04 -- CLOSED
14:08:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/actions/1
14:08:57 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/awwsw/http-semantics-report.html
14:11:46 <DanC> (I can show you the logic I used in http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/story.html )
14:12:26 <dbooth> danc: What problem are we solving?
14:12:37 <dbooth> jar: Expressing semantics of http interaction in rdf.
14:16:08 <DanC> . http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
14:16:33 <dbooth> danc: http can be described to any level of detail
14:17:18 <dbooth> dbooth: yes, but we don't yet have agreement on any levels of detail.  we need to choose both a level of detail and reach agreement.
14:17:31 <dbooth> danc: let's look at http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/httpspeech.html
14:17:43 <DanC> _:some_connection ht:requests (_:some_request).
14:18:52 <dbooth> danc: in this model, _:some_request has time in it, so two different requests might send the same bytes.
14:21:17 <DanC> information(message, resource, hunk_of_data)
14:21:46 <dbooth> danc: you could also use a 3-ary relationship.
14:22:31 <dbooth> danc: I also did something on caching, not on this page
14:22:45 <dbooth> s/not on/not included in/
14:22:51 <DanC> (caching thing is in http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP )
14:25:40 <mhausenblas> q+ to ask DanC about status code vs method interdepencies
14:25:45 <dbooth> jar: to use timbl's notion of FixedResource, you need to express time.
14:27:03 <dbooth> danc: to deal with time in the way I've approached it, you'd say that for a FixedResource the max cardinality of :information property is 1.
14:28:56 <dbooth> ack m
14:28:56 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask DanC about status code vs method interdepencies
14:29:21 <DanC> q+ to note a model of (a special kind of) stable resource http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Sep/0136
14:29:39 <mhausenblas> ack me
14:29:40 <mhausenblas> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-08#section-9.9
14:29:59 <dbooth> michael: can we use the "via" header?
14:30:35 <DanC> <http://foo> log:uri "http://foo"
14:31:25 <dbooth> michael; (looking at why you use log:uri )
14:32:38 <dbooth> jar: in the other paper i want to focus on what the server is saying about the resource.
14:34:40 <DanC> (other classes in tim's thing? pointer?)
14:35:09 <dbooth> dbooth: 301 (Moved Permanently) would seem to have to deal with time.
14:35:10 <DanC> caching thing... http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
14:37:26 <dbooth> jar: one of my goals was to show how little there is in the semantics of http interactions, as a way to motivate more layers.
14:37:38 <DanC> I think an information property (which is time-oblivious) and an information2 (which needs a better name and is time/message sensitive)
14:37:55 <dbooth> ... e.g., the httpRange-14 rule is murky.
14:38:56 <dbooth> danc: i think httpRange-14 is a social convention that is followed, and agents shoudl follow this convention.
14:40:34 <jar> Alan R is urging the OBO ontologies never to use 200 for any URI in any ontology, because the specs are screwed up, in his view
14:41:06 <jar> i.e. always use 303  (or #, but Alan doesn't like # for other reasons)
14:41:11 <mhausenblas> Michael strongly disagrees with Alan's views, btw ;)
14:42:10 <jar> i.e. OBO should follow the TAG's advice, but finds doing so inconsistent with 200, since it's unclear what an "information resource" is or isn't
14:42:16 <DanC> . ISSUE: definitions of HTTP semantics (near "information resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO designers, who are avoiding 200
14:42:43 <mhausenblas> +!
14:42:45 <mhausenblas> +1
14:42:49 <DanC> ISSUE: definitions of HTTP semantics (near "information resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO designers, who are avoiding 200
14:42:49 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-3 - Definitions of HTTP semantics (near "information resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO designers, who are avoiding 200 ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/issues/3/edit .
14:43:01 <DanC> hs:information s:subPropertyOf c:says.
14:44:17 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-3?
14:44:17 <trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- Definitions of HTTP semantics (near "information resource" / 200 responses) sufficient to satisfy OBO designers, who are avoiding 200 -- RAISED
14:44:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/issues/3
14:44:36 <jar> informationResource subclassof Principal
14:45:15 <DanC> "Indirection needs Redirection" http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/dj9/badmeta.html
14:46:18 <jar> server says (resource says X)   does not imply  server says X
14:47:35 <dbooth> jar: I view awww:InformationResource as a subclass of Principal.
14:49:02 <dbooth> danc: regarding http://neurocommons.org/page/HTTP_Semantics how about using messages instead of time?  Time is partially ordered in http.
14:49:42 <dbooth> danc: There's a :happensBefore relation between messages.
14:51:45 <dbooth> danc: In caching protocols, the second request is causally related to the first response, as evidenced in the cache validation header.  E.g., you get back a picture with etag 100.  Then you send another request includeing etag 100.
14:52:24 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
14:54:00 <DanC>         ∧ mp < mq2 
14:54:12 <dbooth> danc: but i didn't handle VARY in that caching stuff.
14:54:30 <DanC> represents(mp2, i, cbody)
14:55:40 <Zakim> -dbooth
14:59:22 <jar> look at IAO information artifact ontology
14:59:37 <jar> http://code.google.com/p/information-artifact-ontology/
14:59:45 <DanC> ACTION: DanC look at IAO and propose HTTP semantics sufficient to address their concerns
14:59:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Look at IAO and propose HTTP semantics sufficient to address their concerns [on Dan Connolly - due 2010-02-23].
14:59:47 <mhausenblas> title for http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/HTTP
15:00:10 <DanC> "Specifying Web Architecture with Larch" -- http://www.w3.org/XML/9711theory/
15:00:21 <DanC> Dan Connolly
15:00:21 <DanC> 9th International World Wide Web Conference
15:00:21 <DanC> Amsterdam
15:00:21 <DanC> May 2000 
15:01:10 <DanC> ACTION-23 due + 2 weeks
15:01:10 <trackbot> ACTION-23 Review IRW and HTTP Ont OWL. due date now + 2 weeks
15:01:52 <DanC> looking at http://www.w3.org/2007/awwsw/tracker/agenda?duebefore=2010-03-03
15:02:01 <DanC> JAR: yes, next meeting 2 weeks time
15:02:03 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
15:02:03 <DanC> (2 March)
15:02:58 <DanC> ACTION-31: note http://neurocommons.org/page/HTTP_Semantics
15:02:58 <trackbot> ACTION-31 Update draft to account for time-dependence of describedBy notes added
15:03:43 <DanC> action-31 due +2 weeks
15:03:43 <trackbot> ACTION-31 Update draft to account for time-dependence of describedBy due date now +2 weeks
15:03:48 <DanC> action-32 due +2 weeks
15:03:48 <trackbot> ACTION-32 Add time-oblivious HTTP exchange curation rules to draft due date now +2 weeks
15:12:51 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:13:03 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:13:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth
15:13:13 <dbooth> chair: Jonathan Rees (jar)
15:14:36 <dbooth> meeting: AWWSW
15:15:23 <dbooth> Present: David Booth, Michael Hausenblas, Jonathan Rees, Dan Connolly
15:16:30 <dbooth> i/trackbot, action-1?/Topic: Semantics of HTTP
15:17:06 <dbooth> scribe: dbooth
15:17:12 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth
15:21:19 <jar> http://dx.doi.org/10.1234/foo
15:21:31 <jar> 10.1234/foo
15:26:19 <jar> bibo
15:26:34 <jar> http://bibliontology.com/
15:27:16 <jar> http://www.zotero.org/
15:27:42 <DanC> felgercarb. http://purl.org/ontology/bibo/ . no #
15:34:17 <jar> http://dx.doi.org/denotes-article/10.1234/foo
15:34:24 <jar> 303 -> http://dx.doi.org/10.1234/foo
15:36:00 <jar> http://dx.doi.org/10.1234/foo#article
15:40:24 <jar> you still there?
15:42:01 <Zakim> -DanC
15:44:05 <jar> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:44:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/16-awwsw-minutes.html jar
15:47:02 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, jar, in Team_(awwsw)14:03Z
15:47:03 <Zakim> Team_(awwsw)14:03Z has ended
15:47:06 <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, jar, mhausenblas, +1.216.445.aaaa, dbooth
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16:00:17 <DanC> DanC has joined #awwsw
16:02:26 <jar> jar has joined #awwsw
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