IRC log of mediafrag on 2010-02-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:03:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
10:03:39 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc
10:03:41 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
10:03:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #mediafrag
10:03:43 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
10:03:43 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM already started
10:03:44 [trackbot]
Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
10:03:44 [trackbot]
Date: 10 February 2010
10:03:56 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas
10:05:16 [Zakim]
+silvia
10:06:42 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
10:06:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Erik, Thierry, mhausenblas, silvia
10:06:43 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, tmichel, davy, erik, raphael, mhausenblas, conrad, silvia, Yves, trackbot
10:06:45 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', raphael. Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:06:58 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make records public
10:06:58 [Zakim]
+raphael
10:07:14 [raphael]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0013.html
10:07:19 [raphael]
Chair: Raphael, Erik
10:07:24 [raphael]
Regrets: Yves, Conrad
10:08:10 [raphael]
Present: Erik, Davy, Raphael, Michael, Silvia, Thierry
10:08:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:09:20 [silvia]
Meeting open
10:09:36 [silvia]
Raphael: focus on two things
10:09:56 [silvia]
.. * "ready for implementation" markings
10:09:59 [silvia]
.. * test cases
10:10:07 [silvia]
Topic: 1. ADMIN
10:10:23 [silvia]
PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 03 February 2009 telecon:
10:10:24 [silvia]
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html
10:10:25 [mhausenblas]
+1
10:10:27 [raphael]
+1
10:10:29 [erik]
+1
10:10:31 [silvia]
+1
10:10:35 [davy]
+1
10:10:41 [silvia]
raphael: accepted
10:10:57 [silvia]
RE: ACTION-127: Thierry/Yves to look for the charter extension
10:11:13 [silvia]
thierry: WG was extended for a year, until end Jan 2011
10:11:25 [silvia]
RESOLUTION: ccept the minutes of the 03 February 2009 telecon
10:11:37 [raphael]
s/ccept/accept
10:12:14 [silvia]
thierry: management wants public to react on document
10:12:29 [silvia]
.. wants to get Last Call asap
10:12:40 [mhausenblas]
q+ to ask re HTTPbis dependecies
10:12:49 [mhausenblas]
ack me
10:12:49 [Zakim]
mhausenblas, you wanted to ask re HTTPbis dependecies
10:12:50 [silvia]
close ACTION-127
10:12:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-127 Look for the charter extension closed
10:13:47 [silvia]
mhausenblas: HTTPbis dependencies should be addressed at f2f
10:13:50 [raphael]
Michael: is there any dependencies with HTTPBis ... also in last call
10:14:05 [silvia]
thierry: extension will be announced today or tomorrow
10:14:17 [silvia]
RE: ACTION-92: Erik and Raphael to coordinate the writing of papers
10:14:43 [silvia]
Erik: hopefully finishes his part by weekend and hopes to send edits next week
10:15:10 [silvia]
Topic: 2. F2F Meeting
10:15:19 [silvia]
Draft Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FithF2FAgenda
10:15:35 [silvia]
raphael: add topics to wiki, everything you'd like us to discuss
10:15:42 [silvia]
.. also things we should conclude on
10:15:55 [silvia]
.. venue and zakim booking are done
10:16:16 [silvia]
Topic: 3. SPECIFICATION
10:16:44 [silvia]
RE: ACTION-134: Erik to mark up the spec with normative and informative classes
10:17:11 [Zakim]
-raphael
10:17:39 [silvia]
raphael: thinks it's too early for such markup
10:17:50 [Zakim]
+raphael
10:18:32 [silvia]
.. should be last thing we do
10:18:49 [silvia]
.. still subject to lots of discussions
10:18:59 [silvia]
.. could start marking up on the parts that are major
10:19:38 [silvia]
silvia: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0007.html
10:19:48 [silvia]
.. has a list of things that could be marked up already
10:20:46 [silvia]
.. not possible for everything of course
10:20:59 [silvia]
raphael: would rather want to get implementations
10:21:12 [silvia]
mhausenblas: agree, statements are too early
10:21:15 [silvia]
.. could change still
10:21:23 [silvia]
raphael: support the path that silvia mentions
10:21:44 [mhausenblas]
Michael: we should flag stable vs. unstable sections rather than normative vs. informative
10:21:50 [silvia]
.. just marking some sections as "ready for implementation"
10:22:04 [raphael]
Section: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#npt-time
10:22:15 [raphael]
is stable providing the correction of the npt bug
10:22:20 [mhausenblas]
Michael: this is IMO, what implementers are primarily interested in
10:22:43 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-protocol-UA-mapped
10:22:46 [silvia]
raphael: correct npt scheme
10:22:56 [silvia]
.. no action yet
10:23:03 [silvia]
.. should include diagrams that Erik sent
10:23:08 [mhausenblas]
ACTION-126?
10:23:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-126 -- Yves Lafon to follow up on error in ABFN for npt -- due 2009-12-23 -- OPEN
10:23:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/126
10:23:28 [silvia]
silvia: Yves said he would do the changes by next week
10:23:36 [erik]
q+
10:23:44 [silvia]
raphael: make sure Yves completes by next week
10:23:48 [mhausenblas]
ack erik
10:24:01 [silvia]
erik: first job on diagrams
10:24:08 [silvia]
.. only includes main headers, not all headers
10:24:32 [silvia]
michael: should include all headers
10:25:12 [silvia]
silvia: haven't looked at the diagrams indepth
10:25:38 [silvia]
michael: a decision for who marks it up to include what is most important
10:25:52 [silvia]
erik: will look at it again
10:26:30 [silvia]
silvia: we could also rely on implementers to give us feedback
10:26:51 [silvia]
raphael: suggest to give action to somebody to integrate diagrams into document
10:27:11 [silvia]
Action: silvia to include Erik's diagrams into specification
10:27:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-138 - Include Erik's diagrams into specification [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-02-17].
10:27:37 [silvia]
.. silvia to also include source files
10:28:19 [silvia]
erik: diagrams got generated automatically
10:28:26 [mhausenblas]
http://www.websequencediagrams.com/
10:28:36 [silvia]
.. from websequencediagrams
10:29:11 [silvia]
.. diagrams are public
10:29:53 [silvia]
.. put links into wiki
10:30:09 [silvia]
.. silvia will add links to originals into comment and add files into cvs
10:30:30 [silvia]
raphael: need somebody to mark sections as implementable
10:30:33 [raphael]
ACTION-134?
10:30:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-134 -- Erik Mannens to mark up the spec with normative and informative classes -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
10:30:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/134
10:30:44 [raphael]
ACTION-133?
10:30:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-133 -- Erik Mannens to will try to generate some time diagram for the protocol description in the section 5.2.1.x -- due 2010-02-03 -- OPEN
10:30:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/133
10:30:54 [silvia]
close ACTION-133
10:30:54 [trackbot]
ACTION-133 Will try to generate some time diagram for the protocol description in the section 5.2.1.x closed
10:31:46 [silvia]
.. if everyone agrees on the list of chapters that silvia said are implementable, they should be marked up as such
10:31:53 [silvia]
<no objections>
10:31:55 [mhausenblas]
+1
10:31:57 [davy]
+1
10:31:58 [raphael]
Is there strong disagreement for makring up these parts in the document ?
10:32:08 [raphael]
... as stable
10:32:12 [raphael]
good, no objections
10:32:23 [silvia]
Action: silvia to mark up specified sections as implementable
10:32:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-139 - Mark up specified sections as implementable [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-02-17].
10:32:25 [raphael]
s/makring/marking
10:32:49 [raphael]
ACTION-135?
10:32:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-135 -- Erik Mannens to extend section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
10:32:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/135
10:32:53 [raphael]
ACTION-136?
10:32:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-136 -- Davy Van Deursen to create a diagram of video timeline to explain temporal dimension -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
10:32:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/136
10:33:06 [silvia]
RE: ACTION-135: Davy, Erik to extend section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension
10:33:19 [silvia]
ongoing
10:33:23 [silvia]
close ACTION-136
10:33:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-136 Create a diagram of video timeline to explain temporal dimension closed
10:33:42 [silvia]
TOPIC: 4. ISSUES
10:33:55 [silvia]
later
10:33:57 [silvia]
TOPIC: 5. TEST CASES: (Michael)
10:34:22 [silvia]
michael hasn't had the time to spend on test cases
10:34:35 [silvia]
raphael: need another volunteer to keep this going
10:35:00 [silvia]
michael: I will not be able to drive this
10:35:06 [erik]
q+
10:35:10 [silvia]
.. need a volunteer to take over
10:35:23 [silvia]
erik: we can do it but not before april
10:36:56 [raphael]
Silvia: I'm not sure we need a responsible person, no stress on someone in particular
10:37:02 [raphael]
... it could be a collective effort
10:37:26 [raphael]
Michael: I think you're right, but getting a person setting up the policy for external reviews is important
10:37:41 [raphael]
... for that, it is good to have a face
10:37:43 [silvia]
silvia: could be part of the natural sequence of (1) defining use case, (2) defining solution, (3) defining error and test cases
10:38:17 [silvia]
raphael: during f2f we could collectively discuss test cases that are well enough defined
10:38:26 [mhausenblas]
Michael: the 'collective approach' actually made me propose/implement http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/
10:39:09 [silvia]
raphael: we should do all of the above :)
10:39:27 [silvia]
.. define test cases during f2f
10:39:50 [silvia]
.. have a person responsible from April to follow up
10:40:10 [silvia]
michael: main motivation is to get the implementation report in just one click
10:40:32 [silvia]
.. this is what corrib has been set up for
10:40:42 [erik]
q+
10:40:52 [tmichel]
A Method for Writing Testable Conformance Requirements
10:40:55 [silvia]
.. should be decided at f2f
10:40:56 [raphael]
q?
10:40:57 [mhausenblas]
ack erik
10:41:01 [tmichel]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-test-methodology-20100128/
10:41:18 [silvia]
erik: I like the one-click approach to report
10:42:33 [tmichel]
document presents a method for writing, marking-up, and analyzing conformance requirements in technical specifications.
10:42:39 [silvia]
silvia: agree to having somebody responsible to look after corrib for checking implementation conformance
10:42:59 [silvia]
micheal: implementation report is part of our charter
10:43:14 [silvia]
+1
10:43:31 [silvia]
erik: exit criteria we will write in CR document
10:43:53 [silvia]
raphael: should we look at test cases now?
10:44:03 [silvia]
michael: can show what I've done so far
10:44:10 [silvia]
.. classification of test cases
10:44:22 [silvia]
.. move into wiki
10:45:07 [mhausenblas]
ACTION-115?
10:45:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-115 -- Michael Hausenblas to come up with categorization of test cases wrt empty, undefined, etc -- due 2009-09-30 -- CLOSED
10:45:07 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/115
10:45:30 [silvia]
.. uploaded an rdf document that defined all the cases
10:45:45 [mhausenblas]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc
10:46:43 [silvia]
silvia: is that out of corrib?
10:48:02 [Zakim]
-raphael
10:48:24 [silvia]
erik: can we get a more readable version?
10:48:52 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: mhausenb to create a more readable version of the TC classification at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc
10:48:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-140 - Create a more readable version of the TC classification at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-02-17].
10:49:44 [silvia]
silvia: for me it's not about readability, but about how to edit
10:50:13 [silvia]
michael: you have access to the file - it's in cvs
10:51:13 [silvia]
michael: will create a readable html page out of it
10:53:01 [silvia]
silvia: question whether we should address the test case for time dimension
10:53:50 [silvia]
michael: what differences did you have
10:54:01 [silvia]
silvia: only one major difference to before
10:54:23 [silvia]
michael: would need to work through the list
10:54:31 [silvia]
.. prefer to delay to next week
10:55:05 [silvia]
erik: any other topic?
10:55:14 [silvia]
Topic: 7. AOB
10:55:27 [silvia]
<no reactions>
10:55:36 [Zakim]
-mhausenblas
10:55:37 [silvia]
erik: thanks everyone
10:55:38 [Zakim]
-Erik
10:55:43 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, attendees?
10:55:43 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, mhausenblas.
10:55:45 [Zakim]
-silvia
10:55:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
10:55:55 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, attendees
10:55:55 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'attendees', mhausenblas
10:56:05 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, list attendees
10:56:05 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Erik, Thierry, mhausenblas, silvia, raphael
10:56:09 [silvia]
em wonders if I sometimes mixed up erik and davy...
10:56:10 [Zakim]
-Thierry
10:56:11 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:56:12 [Zakim]
Attendees were Erik, Thierry, mhausenblas, silvia, raphael
10:56:17 [silvia]
s/em/me/ ;)
10:56:17 [mhausenblas]
[adjourned]
10:56:25 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:56:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:56:34 [erik]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:56:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html erik
10:57:21 [mhausenblas]
ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
10:57:26 [mhausenblas]
rrsagent, draft minutes
10:57:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:57:46 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, bye
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: silvia to include Erik's diagrams into specification [1]
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc#T10-27-11
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: silvia to mark up specified sections as implementable [2]
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc#T10-32-23
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: mhausenb to create a more readable version of the TC classification at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc [3]
10:57:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc#T10-48-52
10:57:57 [raphael]
wow, thanks Michael, I learn one more scribe options command