10:03:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
10:03:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc
10:03:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
10:03:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
10:03:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
10:03:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM already started
10:03:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
10:03:44 <trackbot> Date: 10 February 2010
10:03:56 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
10:05:16 <Zakim> +silvia
10:06:42 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
10:06:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see Erik, Thierry, mhausenblas, silvia
10:06:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, tmichel, davy, erik, raphael, mhausenblas, conrad, silvia, Yves, trackbot
10:06:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', raphael.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
10:06:58 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make records public
10:06:58 <Zakim> +raphael
10:07:14 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0013.html
10:07:19 <raphael> Chair: Raphael, Erik
10:07:24 <raphael> Regrets: Yves, Conrad
10:08:10 <raphael> Present: Erik, Davy, Raphael, Michael, Silvia, Thierry
10:08:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:09:20 <silvia> Meeting open
10:09:36 <silvia> Raphael: focus on two things
10:09:56 <silvia> .. * "ready for implementation" markings
10:09:59 <silvia> .. * test cases
10:10:07 <silvia> Topic: 1. ADMIN
10:10:23 <silvia> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 03 February 2009 telecon:
10:10:24 <silvia> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-mediafrag-minutes.html
10:10:25 <mhausenblas> +1
10:10:27 <raphael> +1
10:10:29 <erik> +1
10:10:31 <silvia> +1
10:10:35 <davy> +1
10:10:41 <silvia> raphael: accepted
10:10:57 <silvia> RE: ACTION-127: Thierry/Yves to look for the charter extension
10:11:13 <silvia> thierry: WG was extended for a year, until end Jan 2011
10:11:25 <silvia> RESOLUTION: ccept the minutes of the 03 February 2009 telecon
10:11:37 <raphael> s/ccept/accept
10:12:14 <silvia> thierry: management wants public to react on document
10:12:29 <silvia> .. wants to get Last Call asap
10:12:40 <mhausenblas> q+ to ask re HTTPbis dependecies
10:12:49 <mhausenblas> ack me
10:12:49 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask re HTTPbis dependecies
10:12:50 <silvia> close ACTION-127
10:12:51 <trackbot> ACTION-127 Look for the charter extension closed
10:13:47 <silvia> mhausenblas: HTTPbis dependencies should be addressed at f2f
10:13:50 <raphael> Michael: is there any dependencies with HTTPBis ... also in last call
10:14:05 <silvia> thierry: extension will be announced today or tomorrow
10:14:17 <silvia> RE: ACTION-92: Erik and Raphael to coordinate the writing of papers
10:14:43 <silvia> Erik: hopefully finishes his part by weekend and hopes to send edits next week
10:15:10 <silvia> Topic: 2. F2F Meeting
10:15:19 <silvia> Draft Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FithF2FAgenda
10:15:35 <silvia> raphael: add topics to wiki, everything you'd like us to discuss
10:15:42 <silvia> .. also things we should conclude on
10:15:55 <silvia> .. venue and zakim booking are done
10:16:16 <silvia> Topic: 3. SPECIFICATION
10:16:44 <silvia> RE: ACTION-134: Erik to mark up the spec with normative and informative classes
10:17:11 <Zakim> -raphael
10:17:39 <silvia> raphael: thinks it's too early for such markup
10:17:50 <Zakim> +raphael
10:18:32 <silvia> .. should be last thing we do
10:18:49 <silvia> .. still subject to lots of discussions
10:18:59 <silvia> .. could start marking up on the parts that are major
10:19:38 <silvia> silvia: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0007.html
10:19:48 <silvia> .. has a list of things that could be marked up already
10:20:46 <silvia> .. not possible for everything of course
10:20:59 <silvia> raphael: would rather want to get implementations
10:21:12 <silvia> mhausenblas: agree, statements are too early
10:21:15 <silvia> .. could change still
10:21:23 <silvia> raphael: support the path that silvia mentions
10:21:44 <mhausenblas> Michael: we should flag stable vs. unstable sections rather than normative vs. informative
10:21:50 <silvia> .. just marking some sections as "ready for implementation"
10:22:04 <raphael> Section: http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#npt-time
10:22:15 <raphael> is stable providing the correction of the npt bug
10:22:20 <mhausenblas> Michael: this is IMO, what implementers are primarily interested in
10:22:43 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-protocol-UA-mapped
10:22:46 <silvia> raphael: correct npt scheme
10:22:56 <silvia> .. no action yet
10:23:03 <silvia> .. should include diagrams that Erik sent
10:23:08 <mhausenblas> ACTION-126?
10:23:08 <trackbot> ACTION-126 -- Yves Lafon to follow up on error in ABFN for npt -- due 2009-12-23 -- OPEN
10:23:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/126
10:23:28 <silvia> silvia: Yves said he would do the changes by next week
10:23:36 <erik> q+
10:23:44 <silvia> raphael: make sure Yves completes by next week
10:23:48 <mhausenblas> ack erik 
10:24:01 <silvia> erik: first job on diagrams
10:24:08 <silvia> .. only includes main headers, not all headers
10:24:32 <silvia> michael: should include all headers
10:25:12 <silvia> silvia: haven't looked at the diagrams indepth
10:25:38 <silvia> michael: a decision for who marks it up to include what is most important
10:25:52 <silvia> erik: will look at it again
10:26:30 <silvia> silvia: we could also rely on implementers to give us feedback
10:26:51 <silvia> raphael: suggest to give action to somebody to integrate diagrams into document
10:27:11 <silvia> Action: silvia to include Erik's diagrams into specification
10:27:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Include Erik's diagrams into specification [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-02-17].
10:27:37 <silvia> .. silvia to also include source files
10:28:19 <silvia> erik: diagrams got generated automatically
10:28:26 <mhausenblas> http://www.websequencediagrams.com/
10:28:36 <silvia> .. from websequencediagrams
10:29:11 <silvia> .. diagrams are public
10:29:53 <silvia> .. put links into wiki
10:30:09 <silvia> .. silvia will add links to originals into comment and add files into cvs
10:30:30 <silvia> raphael: need somebody to mark sections as implementable
10:30:33 <raphael> ACTION-134?
10:30:33 <trackbot> ACTION-134 -- Erik Mannens to mark up the spec with normative and informative classes -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
10:30:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/134
10:30:44 <raphael> ACTION-133?
10:30:44 <trackbot> ACTION-133 -- Erik Mannens to will try to generate some time diagram for the protocol description in the section 5.2.1.x -- due 2010-02-03 -- OPEN
10:30:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/133
10:30:54 <silvia> close ACTION-133
10:30:54 <trackbot> ACTION-133 Will try to generate some time diagram for the protocol description in the section 5.2.1.x closed
10:31:46 <silvia> .. if everyone agrees on the list of chapters that silvia said are implementable, they should be marked up as such
10:31:53 <silvia> <no objections>
10:31:55 <mhausenblas> +1
10:31:57 <davy> +1
10:31:58 <raphael> Is there strong disagreement for makring up these parts in the document ?
10:32:08 <raphael> ... as stable
10:32:12 <raphael> good, no objections
10:32:23 <silvia> Action: silvia to mark up specified sections as implementable
10:32:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Mark up specified sections as implementable [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-02-17].
10:32:25 <raphael> s/makring/marking
10:32:49 <raphael> ACTION-135?
10:32:49 <trackbot> ACTION-135 -- Erik Mannens to extend section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
10:32:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/135
10:32:53 <raphael> ACTION-136?
10:32:53 <trackbot> ACTION-136 -- Davy Van Deursen to create a diagram of video timeline to explain temporal dimension -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
10:32:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/136
10:33:06 <silvia> RE: ACTION-135: Davy, Erik to extend section 5 regarding spatial and track dimension
10:33:19 <silvia> ongoing
10:33:23 <silvia> close ACTION-136
10:33:23 <trackbot> ACTION-136 Create a diagram of video timeline to explain temporal dimension closed
10:33:42 <silvia> TOPIC: 4. ISSUES
10:33:55 <silvia> later
10:33:57 <silvia> TOPIC: 5. TEST CASES: (Michael)
10:34:22 <silvia> michael hasn't had the time to spend on test cases
10:34:35 <silvia> raphael: need another volunteer to keep this going
10:35:00 <silvia> michael: I will not be able to drive this
10:35:06 <erik> q+
10:35:10 <silvia> .. need a volunteer to take over
10:35:23 <silvia> erik: we can do it but not before april
10:36:56 <raphael> Silvia: I'm not sure we need a responsible person, no stress on someone in particular
10:37:02 <raphael> ... it could be a collective effort
10:37:26 <raphael> Michael: I think you're right, but getting a person setting up the policy for external reviews is important
10:37:41 <raphael> ... for that, it is good to have a face
10:37:43 <silvia> silvia: could be part of the natural sequence of (1) defining use case, (2) defining solution, (3) defining error and test cases
10:38:17 <silvia> raphael: during f2f we could collectively discuss test cases that are well enough defined
10:38:26 <mhausenblas> Michael: the 'collective approach' actually made me propose/implement http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/
10:39:09 <silvia> raphael: we should do all of the above :)
10:39:27 <silvia> .. define test cases during f2f
10:39:50 <silvia> .. have a person responsible from April to follow up
10:40:10 <silvia> michael: main motivation is to get the implementation report in just one click
10:40:32 <silvia> .. this is what corrib has been set up for
10:40:42 <erik> q+
10:40:52 <tmichel> A Method for Writing Testable Conformance Requirements
10:40:55 <silvia> .. should be decided at f2f
10:40:56 <raphael> q?
10:40:57 <mhausenblas> ack erik
10:41:01 <tmichel> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-test-methodology-20100128/
10:41:18 <silvia> erik: I like the one-click approach to report
10:42:33 <tmichel> document presents a method for writing, marking-up, and analyzing conformance requirements in technical specifications.
10:42:39 <silvia> silvia: agree to having somebody responsible to look after corrib for checking implementation conformance
10:42:59 <silvia> micheal: implementation report is part of our charter
10:43:14 <silvia> +1
10:43:31 <silvia> erik: exit criteria we will write in CR document
10:43:53 <silvia> raphael: should we look at test cases now?
10:44:03 <silvia> michael: can show what I've done so far
10:44:10 <silvia> .. classification of test cases
10:44:22 <silvia> .. move into wiki
10:45:07 <mhausenblas> ACTION-115?
10:45:07 <trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Michael Hausenblas to come up with categorization of test cases wrt empty, undefined, etc -- due 2009-09-30 -- CLOSED
10:45:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/115
10:45:30 <silvia> .. uploaded an rdf document that defined all the cases
10:45:45 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc
10:46:43 <silvia> silvia: is that out of corrib?
10:48:02 <Zakim> -raphael
10:48:24 <silvia> erik: can we get a more readable version?
10:48:52 <mhausenblas> ACTION: mhausenb to create a more readable version of the TC classification at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc
10:48:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-140 - Create a more readable version of the TC classification at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-02-17].
10:49:44 <silvia> silvia: for me it's not about readability, but about how to edit
10:50:13 <silvia> michael: you have access to the file - it's in cvs
10:51:13 <silvia> michael: will create a readable html page out of it
10:53:01 <silvia> silvia: question whether we should address the test case for time dimension
10:53:50 <silvia> michael: what differences did you have
10:54:01 <silvia> silvia: only one major difference to before
10:54:23 <silvia> michael: would need to work through the list
10:54:31 <silvia> .. prefer to delay to next week
10:55:05 <silvia> erik: any other topic?
10:55:14 <silvia> Topic: 7. AOB
10:55:27 <silvia> <no reactions>
10:55:36 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
10:55:37 <silvia> erik: thanks everyone
10:55:38 <Zakim> -Erik
10:55:43 <mhausenblas> Zakim, attendees?
10:55:43 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, mhausenblas.
10:55:45 <Zakim> -silvia
10:55:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html davy
10:55:55 <mhausenblas> Zakim, attendees 
10:55:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'attendees', mhausenblas
10:56:05 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees
10:56:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Erik, Thierry, mhausenblas, silvia, raphael
10:56:09 <silvia> em wonders if I sometimes mixed up erik and davy...
10:56:10 <Zakim> -Thierry
10:56:11 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:56:12 <Zakim> Attendees were Erik, Thierry, mhausenblas, silvia, raphael
10:56:17 <silvia> s/em/me/ ;)
10:56:17 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
10:56:25 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:56:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:56:34 <erik> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:56:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html erik
10:57:21 <mhausenblas> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
10:57:26 <mhausenblas> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:57:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html mhausenblas
10:57:46 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, bye
10:57:46 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
10:57:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: silvia to include Erik's diagrams into specification [1]
10:57:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc#T10-27-11
10:57:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: silvia to mark up specified sections as implementable [2]
10:57:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc#T10-32-23
10:57:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mhausenb to create a more readable version of the TC classification at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc [3]
10:57:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-irc#T10-48-52
10:57:57 <raphael> wow, thanks Michael, I learn one more scribe options command