14:55:55 RRSAgent has joined #sparql 14:55:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-sparql-irc 14:56:29 bglimm has joined #sparql 14:57:34 MattPerry has joined #sparql 14:58:33 Zakim? 14:58:43 What's wrong with Zakim? 14:58:53 Zakim needs to be invited 14:58:56 I don't remember how 14:59:07 Zakim is in this channel already 14:59:13 ah, ok 14:59:17 Zakim, this is DAWG 14:59:17 sorry, SteveH_, I do not see a conference named 'DAWG' in progress or scheduled at this time 14:59:17 Zaakim, who is on the phone? 14:59:23 Zakim, this is SPARQL 14:59:23 ok, SteveH_; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 14:59:25 +dcharbon2 14:59:33 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:59:33 On the phone I see kasei, bglimm, dcharbon2 14:59:34 seems, Zakim is fine 14:59:40 trackbot, start meeting 14:59:42 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:59:43 good then. thanks steve. 14:59:44 Zakim, this will be 77277 14:59:45 Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference 14:59:45 Date: 09 February 2010 14:59:45 ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 14:59:59 Zakim, mute me 14:59:59 sorry, kasei, I don't know what conference this is 15:00:04 AxelPolleres has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-02-09 15:00:26 sandro has joined #sparql 15:00:33 Zakim, this is SPARQL 15:00:33 ok, kasei; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 15:00:37 Zakim, mute me 15:00:39 kasei should now be muted 15:00:43 Zakim, mute me 15:00:44 zakim, what is the code? 15:00:50 AlexPassant has joined #sparql 15:00:51 bglimm should now be muted 15:00:57 the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sandro 15:01:03 +AxelPolleres 15:01:07 zakim, dial ivan-voip 15:01:17 ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:01:20 zakim, mute me 15:01:25 +Ivan 15:01:31 -??P19 15:01:43 dcharbon2 should now be muted 15:01:45 +??P22 15:01:47 Zakim, ??P22 is me 15:01:55 +??P24 15:02:05 +??P28 15:02:05 Zakim, ??P24 is [Garlik] 15:02:09 +AlexPassant; got it 15:02:09 zakim, ??p22 is me 15:02:11 +Souri 15:02:15 + +1.216.445.aaaa 15:02:15 Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH_, LukeWM 15:02:20 Zakim, aaaa is me. 15:02:22 zakim, hand up 15:02:25 +??P32 15:02:27 +Sandro 15:02:27 #41 Axel 15:02:29 +[Garlik]; got it 15:02:33 I already had ??P22 as AlexPassant, MattPerry 15:02:34 Zakim, hand up 15:02:35 +SteveH_, LukeWM; got it 15:02:37 +john-l; got it 15:02:43 I see AndyS on the speaker queue 15:02:51 ack me 15:02:54 +pgearon 15:03:00 I see AndyS, bglimm on the speaker queue 15:03:07 ack bglimm 15:03:14 ack AndyS 15:03:25 zakim, mute me 15:03:30 Zakim, who is on the phone 15:03:32 ack me 15:03:40 Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:03:45 ack me 15:03:49 zakim, ??P32 is me 15:03:50 +??P37 15:03:52 Zakim, ??P28 is me 15:03:53 ack bglimm 15:03:57 Zakim, ack me 15:04:06 Souri has joined #sparql 15:04:14 Ivan should now be muted 15:04:18 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres 15:04:18 zakim, I'm confused, can you just assign all the codes to the right people please 15:04:31 zakim, whio's on the phone? 15:04:33 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:36 ack AlexPassant 15:04:38 On the phone I see kasei (muted), bglimm, dcharbon2 (muted), AxelPolleres, Ivan (muted), AlexPassant, [Garlik], ??P28, Souri, john-l, ??P32, Sandro, pgearon, ??P37 15:04:41 [Garlik] has SteveH_, LukeWM 15:04:47 +AndyS; got it 15:04:53 +MattPerry; got it 15:05:04 I see [Garlik] on the speaker queue 15:05:04 Prateek? 15:05:13 I don't understand you, LukeWM 15:05:14 I don't understand your question, Souri. 15:05:16 On the phone I see kasei (muted), bglimm, dcharbon2 (muted), AxelPolleres, Ivan (muted), AlexPassant, [Garlik], MattPerry, Souri, john-l, AndyS, Sandro, pgearon, ??P37 15:05:19 [Garlik] has SteveH_, LukeWM 15:05:32 Zakim, ack [Garlik] 15:05:34 scribe: John Clark 15:05:44 scribenick: john-l 15:06:12 chimezie has joined #sparql 15:06:22 I see no one on the speaker queue 15:06:27 Zakim, passcode? 15:06:29 AxelPolleres: Sorry about last week; things happen. But we have drafts published, and are already receiving feedback. 15:06:34 the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie 15:06:44 PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-01-26 15:06:52 For next week: Regrets: AndyS 15:07:13 Zakim, mute me 15:07:16 http://www.w3.org/2010/01/26-sparql-minutes.html 15:07:24 +Chimezie_Ogbuji 15:07:34 PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2010/01/26-sparql-minutes.html 15:07:41 Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted 15:07:55 RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2010/01/26-sparql-minutes.html 15:08:16 yes 15:08:20 (sorry, muted) 15:09:00 ACTION: Axel to do minutes from last time in usual format, if possible 15:09:00 Created ACTION-185 - Do minutes from last time in usual format, if possible [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-02-16]. 15:09:21 AxelPolleres: Several comments have come in on the new draft. 15:09:41 topic: comments 15:09:42 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments 15:09:59 RN-1 15:10:01 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jan/0000.html 15:10:03 Prateek has joined #sparql 15:10:08 +cory 15:10:19 Zakim, Cory is Prateek 15:10:19 +Prateek; got it 15:10:27 ...: Noone is assigned to comment, but a reply happened anyway. 15:10:40 Sorry I am latte. I am scribe. But it is very bad weather conditions here. 15:10:43 late* 15:10:44 for comments like the brand new one from Rob Vesse that mix comments on multiple docs, should we split the assignment between the appropriate people? 15:11:01 ACTION: Paul to follow up on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jan/0000.html and document on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments 15:11:01 Created ACTION-186 - Follow up on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jan/0000.html and document on http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-02-16]. 15:11:14 Scribe: Prateek 15:11:36 ???: I have been following up, so there isn't as much urgency. 15:12:11 s/???/pgearon/ 15:12:20 ACTION: steve to draft response on ED-1 15:12:20 Created ACTION-187 - Draft response on ED-1 [on Steve Harris - due 2010-02-16]. 15:13:04 AxelPolleres: Please treat reactions to these comments as open action items, and update them accordingly. 15:13:10 Axel, question about comment assignments (^^above^^) 15:13:18 q? 15:13:18 I responded, will update the wiki 15:13:21 (sorry, muted) 15:13:25 Zakim, unmute me 15:13:25 kasei should no longer be muted 15:13:53 i need to update the wiki re: my response as well 15:13:54 kasei: Should we split up some more recent comments that discuss several documents? 15:14:19 ...: In particular, a recent email discusses aggregates and other topics in one email. 15:15:09 ...: I only focused on the service description commentary, but I can help to coordinate feedback. 15:15:44 q+ 15:15:46 ACTION: Greg to coordinate response to RV-2 (and record it on the comments page) 15:15:46 Created ACTION-188 - Coordinate response to RV-2 (and record it on the comments page) [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-02-16]. 15:16:11 zakim, unmute me 15:16:11 Ivan should no longer be muted 15:16:21 AxelPolleres: New PP document should address Jeremy's comment. 15:16:23 q+ 15:17:39 topic: Liasons 15:18:03 Zakim, mute me 15:18:03 kasei should now be muted 15:18:05 sandro: now news from RIF 15:18:19 not news from other groups either 15:18:20 No news from the various Liasons. 15:18:32 Zakim, unmute me 15:18:32 bglimm was not muted, bglimm 15:18:37 topic: FTF 3 15:18:38 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F3 15:18:50 Zakim, unmute me 15:18:50 dcharbon2 should no longer be muted 15:19:12 bglimm: Planning information up on the Wiki. 15:19:27 AxelPolleres: Please start updating that document with your plans. 15:20:09 Zakim, mute me 15:20:09 bglimm should now be muted 15:20:18 AxelPolleres: Let's start discussing issues wrt query. 15:20:52 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/3 15:20:52 AxelPolleres: I'd like to focus on issues 3, 4, 12, and 36. 15:21:03 AxelPolleres: Issue 3 is about subquery syntax. 15:21:47 ...: It seems there isn't a lot of dissention around this issue, so I suggest that we close it. 15:21:49 PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-3 with the consensus that subqueries do not require a special "subquery keyword" but need to be put in mandatory curly braces 15:22:00 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:22:00 On the phone I see kasei (muted), bglimm (muted), dcharbon2, AxelPolleres, Ivan, AlexPassant, [Garlik], MattPerry, Souri, john-l, AndyS, Sandro, pgearon, ??P37, Chimezie_Ogbuji 15:22:04 ... (muted), Prateek 15:22:04 [Garlik] has SteveH_, LukeWM 15:22:05 q? 15:22:11 ack ivan 15:22:24 seconded 15:22:25 +1 15:22:27 ack ivan 15:22:28 +1 15:22:28 +1 15:22:30 +1 15:22:30 +1 15:22:44 RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-3 with the consensus that subqueries do not require a special "subquery keyword" but need to be put in mandatory curly braces 15:22:50 close ISSUE-3 15:22:50 ISSUE-3 Subquery syntax (e.g. mandatory curly braces) closed 15:23:27 ...: Issue 4: 15:23:29 PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-4 with the consensus that only projected variables have scope outside a subquery. 15:23:41 +1 15:23:42 seconded 15:23:44 +1 15:23:45 +1 15:23:47 and SELECT * means al variables visible at top of query? 15:23:48 +1 15:23:54 +1 15:25:58 Discussion clarifying SELECT *, agreement that it only "descends one level". 15:26:17 AxelPolleres: Do we need to amend the proposed resolution? 15:26:18 SELECT * calculates one level of variables (does not decend into subSELECT) 15:26:25 +1 15:26:28 That's how I assumed it would be anyway 15:26:46 PROPOSED : Close ISSUE-4 with the consensus that only projected variables have scope outside a subquery and SELECT * calculates one level of variables (does not decend into further subSELECTs) 15:26:55 +1 15:26:55 +1 15:26:58 +1 15:27:04 +1 15:27:10 Yes - so did I but the proposal talks about projected variables and we need to eb clear SELECT * works in the subSELECT as well 15:27:10 RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-4 with the consensus that only projected variables have scope outside a subquery and SELECT * calculates one level of variables (does not decend into further subSELECTs) 15:27:19 +1 (decend => descend) 15:28:15 AxelPolleres: Next easy issue seems to be issue 12. 15:28:23 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/12 15:28:50 q+ 15:28:51 actually current draft is ambiguious 15:29:10 quoll? 15:29:47 ivan: The recent comment might change aggregation and make this issue moot. 15:30:10 ivan: We shouldn't close it until we've addressed that comment. 15:30:22 q+ 15:30:27 SteveH_: I think the two things are independent. 15:30:28 ack ivan 15:30:53 yes 15:31:40 AxelPolleres: Could we close this with the understanding that we go forward with the syntax in the WD? 15:32:01 not in the WD, that's FILTER as it stands 15:32:06 hears loud typing 15:32:10 having trouble hearing you over the typing 15:32:33 AndyS: Two parts: presense and synatx. Can we agree the need? 15:32:52 PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-12 by consensus of the need for the functionality provided by the HAVING clause as sketched in the latest WD of Query 1.1. 15:32:57 no 15:33:32 +1 15:34:15 AndyS: The draft is ambiguous in its wording. 15:34:50 s/AndyS/SteveH/ 15:35:02 maybe close this issue and open a new one regarding the syntax of this functionality? 15:36:28 AxelPolleres: Can we agree that we need this functionality, but are still undecided about the syntax? 15:37:01 strawpoll: Shall we go along with HAVING as the keyword for filtering based on aggregate values 15:37:05 +1 15:37:07 i still prefer 'FILTER' over 'HAVING', but my resolve is shrinking as time goes on. 15:37:11 +1 15:37:14 +1 15:37:15 +1 15:37:22 +1 15:37:25 Zakim, unmute me 15:37:25 kasei should no longer be muted 15:37:28 +1 15:37:30 +1 15:38:22 kasei: I simply prefer using the 'FILTER' term over 'HAVING'. 15:38:38 ...: ... but with the same syntax as others have presented. 15:39:04 AxelPolleres: But you might need to apply different conditions to the different terms. 15:39:25 To me HAVING seems a much clearer way than having to say use FILTER with such and such restrictions 15:39:49 AxelPolleres: Do we still have resistance to just using 'HAVING'? 15:39:53 0 15:40:03 Zakim, mute me 15:40:03 PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-12 by consensus of the need for the functionality provided by the HAVING clause as sketched in the latest WD of Query 1.1. 15:40:04 kasei should now be muted 15:40:26 +1 15:40:29 +1 15:40:32 +1 15:40:36 +1 15:40:53 RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-12 by consensus of the need for the functionality provided by the HAVING clause as sketched in the latest WD of Query 1.1. 15:41:21 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/36 15:41:21 AxelPolleres: Next up, issue 36. 15:42:18 PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-36 by disallowing projected with the same name as an existing variable (throwing a static error). 15:42:48 "variable for select expression" 15:43:38 Close ISSUE-36 by disallowing variable used with AS for select expression if it already occurs in the pattern of the SELECT. 15:44:45 Zakim, unmute me 15:44:45 Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted 15:44:54 shouldn't that be a noop? 15:46:09 PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-36 by disallowing a variable used with AS for select expression if it already occurs in the WHERE pattern of that SELECT. 15:46:10 Sorry - getting me words mixed up 15:47:01 AxelPolleres: We allow left-to-right chaining for variables in the WHERE clause, correct? 15:47:22 Zakim, mute me 15:47:22 Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted 15:47:32 +1 15:47:38 +1 15:47:41 so this wouldn't say anything abotu this, right? (1 as ?x) (1 as ?x) 15:47:46 +1 15:48:08 AxelPolleres: That's covered in the current spec. 15:48:11 right, yeah. 15:48:24 I'm +1 on either way, but wanted to clarify. 15:48:28 yeah, kasei's case is covered 15:48:36 good. thanks, AndyS. 15:48:37 AxelPolleres: I think that's handled by binding override. 15:48:43 AndyS: No, that's an error in the current doc. 15:49:29 if it's already covered by the doc, I think the proposal as worded is good. 15:50:10 +1 15:50:18 RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-36 by disallowing a variable used with AS for select expression if it already occurs in the WHERE pattern of that SELECT. 15:50:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0222.html 15:51:01 AxelPolleres: We can work off this summary list for further issues. 15:51:27 This is only query issues. I skipped non-query issues. 15:52:20 AxelPolleres: Issue 8 is also marked as done, so let's address that. 15:52:22 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/8 15:52:38 AxelPolleres: There are some comments on that on the ML. 15:53:00 q+ to say I think my summary is incomplete 15:53:49 AxelPolleres: You might use FROM clauses in subqueries to do graph merging. 15:53:57 q? 15:54:04 AxelPolleres: It might be ok to restrict it for subselects, though. 15:54:17 ack AndyS 15:54:17 AndyS, you wanted to say I think my summary is incomplete 15:54:36 AndyS: LeeF was also indicating that this would be relevant for update. 15:54:46 related to Dataset descriptions in update? 15:54:52 SteveH_: We're only talking about queries, though, so this might not be relevant. 15:55:52 AxelPolleres: As a basis, the default dataset is inherited. 15:56:20 ...: Is it orthogonal to consider whether FROM clauses are allowed in subqueries? 15:56:23 currently, no FROM/FROM NAME allowed in Query 1.1 15:56:31 ...subqueries 15:57:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0222.html 15:57:18 AxelPolleres: We are not able to close issue 8 at this time. 15:57:23 ...: Let's move to issue 15. 15:57:42 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/15 15:58:18 AxelPolleres: No special form for aggregates, just use function call syntax. 15:58:47 There is a synatx issue of "my:agg(DISTINCT ?x)" 15:59:04 current assumption is that normal functions and aggregates are disjoint? 15:59:09 I *think* this is OK but I have not had time to check. 15:59:31 q? 15:59:33 AxelPolleres: When would the DISTINCT keyword be allowed? 15:59:43 There will be some parser dancing - extra rules for function call to avoid. 16:00:04 AndyS, yes, the syntax will be a bit murky 16:00:08 Bye folks, RIF meeting starts now. 16:00:19 -Sandro 16:00:22 I have a hard stop at 11, bye guys 16:00:41 -dcharbon2 16:00:55 AxelPolleres: We can't reach an official resolution for issue 15. 16:01:15 -Chimezie_Ogbuji 16:02:27 andyS: extendible aggregates... problematic to check statically whether being used in FILTERs (if we agree to disallow that)? 16:02:47 -Ivan 16:02:49 -AlexPassant 16:03:29 -bglimm 16:04:17 definitions need to settle around that, adjourned for today, thanks everybody. 16:04:18 bye 16:04:20 -MattPerry 16:04:24 bye 16:04:26 ADJOURNED 16:04:28 -john-l 16:04:29 -Souri 16:04:29 -AxelPolleres 16:04:29 Woo - issues closed 16:04:30 -AndyS 16:04:33 -kasei 16:04:43 -Prateek 16:04:47 -pgearon 16:05:00 rrsagent, make records public 16:05:11 Zakim, attendees? 16:05:11 I don't understand your question, AxelPolleres. 16:05:18 regrets: LeeF 16:05:29 Zakim, list attendees 16:05:29 As of this point the attendees have been kasei, bglimm, dcharbon2, AxelPolleres, Ivan, AlexPassant, Souri, +1.216.445.aaaa, Sandro, SteveH_, LukeWM, john-l, pgearon, AndyS, 16:05:30 pgearon - What prioritization of issue do you have? Any interaction with query? 16:05:32 ... MattPerry, Chimezie_Ogbuji, Prateek 16:05:51 rrsagent, make records public 16:06:44 Pgaeron, all editors would be good if you could send a priotity list like Steve/Andy, Greg, Birte did to the list 16:06:54 Thanks 16:10:59 LukeWM has joined #sparql 16:12:53 -??P37 16:17:16 LukeWM has joined #sparql 16:35:01 disconnecting the lone participant, [Garlik], in SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM 16:35:03 SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended 16:35:04 Attendees were kasei, bglimm, dcharbon2, AxelPolleres, Ivan, AlexPassant, Souri, +1.216.445.aaaa, Sandro, SteveH_, LukeWM, john-l, pgearon, AndyS, MattPerry, Chimezie_Ogbuji, 16:35:07 ... Prateek 18:29:14 Zakim has left #sparql 18:41:41 AxelPolleres has left #sparql 19:19:58 LukeWM has joined #sparql