IRC log of rif on 2010-02-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:00:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
16:00:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-irc
16:00:56 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:01:41 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:01:42 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
16:01:48 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
16:01:48 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:01:52 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:01:56 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
16:02:00 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
16:02:29 [Harold]
zakim, [NRCC] is me.
16:02:29 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
16:02:38 [Zakim]
+??P55
16:03:13 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds
16:03:18 [Gary_Hallmark]
Gary_Hallmark has joined #rif
16:03:22 [csma]
Trying to join
16:03:46 [ChrisW]
Scribe: DaveReynolds
16:03:52 [ChrisW]
scribenick: DaveReynolds
16:03:53 [Zakim]
+LeoraMorgenstern
16:04:17 [Zakim]
+Gary
16:04:42 [ChrisW]
Last weeks minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/att-0010/2010-02-02-rif-minutes.html
16:04:50 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:05 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes
16:05:51 [Zakim]
+ +95356aaaa
16:06:06 [csma]
zakim, aaaa is me
16:06:06 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:06:58 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 9 Feb 2010
16:07:03 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
16:07:11 [ChrisW]
Topic: 2cnd PRD LC
16:07:36 [DaveReynolds]
csma: latest PRD draft added notion of compound action, introduces notion of simple action (atomic or compound)
16:07:55 [DaveReynolds]
csma: retract can retract single fact, or whole object
16:08:19 [DaveReynolds]
csma: added form to retract all values for an object on a given slot (also atomic)
16:09:10 [DaveReynolds]
csma: compound is fixed sequence of atomic actions, single instance of this is modify, retract all values of slot in frame then assert new value
16:09:45 [DaveReynolds]
csma: consequent editorial changes - replacing atomic action by simple action, changing examples etc
16:10:04 [AdrianP]
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16:10:06 [DaveReynolds]
cmsa: second non-editorial change, new section 4.2.2, rules normalization
16:10:26 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Feb/0019.html
16:10:53 [DaveReynolds]
cmsa: avoid changing semantics by assuming rules normalized to remove disjunctive conditions by mapping to set of rules with same action part
16:11:00 [ChrisW]
Regrets: MichaelKifer
16:11:18 [DaveReynolds]
s/cmsa/csma/
16:11:21 [Zakim]
+??P30
16:11:33 [AdrianP]
Zakim, ??P30 is me
16:11:33 [Zakim]
+AdrianP; got it
16:11:38 [DaveReynolds]
csma: also normalize by replacing compound actions by their atomic actions
16:11:40 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:11:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, csma, AdrianP
16:12:11 [DaveReynolds]
csma: last change, introduce notion of intermediate state of the transition system
16:12:44 [DaveReynolds]
csma: cycle states are the state after an action block has been executed, transitional state is state after each atomic action has been performed
16:12:51 [Harold]
RE: Definition (Production rule system state).
16:13:08 [Harold]
"... is either a system cycle states or a system transitional states. "?
16:13:22 [DaveReynolds]
csma: changed concept resolution to apply in each transitional state, previously only applied to what is now called the cycle states
16:13:37 [Harold]
(http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/#Definitions_and_notational_conventions)
16:13:44 [DaveReynolds]
csma: this is a substantial change to the semantics
16:13:54 [sandro]
queue yourself to ask that, Harold?
16:14:47 [DaveReynolds]
csma: Also clarified use of xml:base (section 8.2) as discussed and resolved at last telecon, allow relative IRIs in RIF XML syntax anywhere IRIs are allowed
16:15:04 [ChrisW]
q?
16:15:23 [Harold]
RE: 8.2 xml:base
16:15:39 [Harold]
"... including constant type, symbol spaces, location, and profile."?
16:15:46 [Harold]
constant types
16:16:06 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/#xml:base
16:16:07 [LeoraMorgenstern]
q+
16:16:47 [DaveReynolds]
Harold: typos in draft noted via IRC
16:17:13 [DaveReynolds]
Leora: modify is now a compound act?
16:18:26 [AdrianP]
before we had it as a "true" modify, where the implicit retract does not fire negated rules
16:18:28 [DaveReynolds]
csma: yes, previously an atomic action now equivalent to a sequence, relevant due to the transitional states affecting refraction
16:18:43 [Harold]
q+
16:19:07 [csma]
ack leora
16:19:13 [ChrisW]
ack harold
16:19:24 [DaveReynolds]
csma: the absence of an atomic modify is a problem for some systems such as jRules, will have to change implementation substantially
16:20:04 [DaveReynolds]
Harold: many people would distinguish simple v. compound, nomenclature is potentially confusing
16:20:35 [DaveReynolds]
csma: would prefer better wording but this choice meant least changes to text
16:20:39 [Gary]
q+
16:21:05 [DaveReynolds]
csma: simple actions are simple in terms of syntax, though can represent and implicit sequence, whereas an action block is an explicit sequence
16:21:12 [DaveReynolds]
s/and/an/
16:21:14 [ChrisW]
ack Gary
16:21:22 [DaveReynolds]
Gary: could say "action" rather than "simple action"
16:21:35 [DaveReynolds]
csma: OK
16:22:04 [DaveReynolds]
Chris: has there been a review other than from Gary?
16:22:08 [DaveReynolds]
csma: no
16:22:57 [DaveReynolds]
action: Adrian to review changes to PRD spec by Thursday
16:22:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-978 - Review changes to PRD spec by Thursday [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-02-16].
16:23:54 [ChrisW]
action: adrian to review PRD draft by noon (europe) thursday
16:23:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-979 - Review PRD draft by noon (europe) thursday [on Adrian Paschke - due 2010-02-16].
16:25:39 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday.
16:25:50 [Harold]
+1 (NRC)
16:26:02 [Gary]
+1 Oracle
16:26:10 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:26:15 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:26:16 [mdean]
+1
16:26:21 [sandro]
PROPOSED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday. (Others are also free to object by that time, as well.)
16:26:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
+1 (self)
16:26:34 [sandro]
last call period to be minimum, 21 days.,
16:26:39 [sandro]
+1
16:26:42 [csma]
+1 (IBM)
16:27:16 [ChrisW]
+1
16:27:28 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is here?
16:27:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, csma, AdrianP
16:27:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AdrianP, Gary, csma, DaveReynolds, RRSAgent, LeoraMorgenstern, sandro, mdean, ChrisW, AxelPolleres, trackbot, Harold, Zakim
16:27:34 [AdrianP]
+1 (self)
16:27:44 [mdean]
+1
16:28:31 [ChrisW]
TOPIC: use Case modify/noloop
16:28:32 [DaveReynolds]
RESOLVED: Publish the new draft of PRD as a Last Call WD, after csma changes simple actions to actions, corrects a few typos, and pending Adrian's positive review by 6am ET Thursday. (Others are also free to object by that time, as well.)
16:28:46 [ChrisW]
s/use/test/
16:29:07 [DaveReynolds]
Chris: simply remove test case?
16:29:32 [DaveReynolds]
csma: yes, will also add new test cases in parallel with last call, being discussed in PRD task force
16:29:49 [ChrisW]
PROPOSED: remove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Modify_noloop
16:29:58 [Gary]
+1
16:29:59 [ChrisW]
+1
16:30:00 [DaveReynolds]
+1
16:30:10 [mdean]
+1
16:30:19 [LeoraMorgenstern]
+1
16:30:23 [ChrisW]
RESOLVED: remove http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Modify_noloop
16:30:47 [ChrisW]
action: leora to ask stella to remove modify_noloop
16:30:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-980 - Ask stella to remove modify_noloop [on Leora Morgenstern - due 2010-02-16].
16:30:56 [ChrisW]
TOPIC: AOB
16:31:11 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:31:11 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +95356aaaa, csma, AdrianP
16:31:13 [Zakim]
-Gary
16:31:15 [Zakim]
-LeoraMorgenstern
16:31:21 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:31:22 [Zakim]
-AdrianP
16:31:22 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:31:51 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:31:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisW, DaveReynolds, csma
16:31:56 [Zakim]
-DaveReynolds
16:45:58 [Zakim]
+ +5875aabb
16:46:10 [Zakim]
-csma
16:46:24 [csma]
zakim, aabb is me
16:46:24 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:57:41 [csma]
http://www.systap.com/bigdata.htm
17:17:52 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/draft/rif-prd/
17:23:52 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:23:58 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:24:03 [Zakim]
-csma
17:24:04 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:24:08 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mike_Dean, Sandro, ChrisW, Harold, DaveReynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, Gary, +95356aaaa, csma, AdrianP, +5875aabb
17:34:40 [ChrisW]
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18:41:43 [AxelPolleres]
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