15:01:00 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 15:01:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-aapi-irc 15:01:21 Zakim has joined #aapi 15:01:36 zakim, this will be aapi 15:01:44 davidb has joined #aapi 15:01:50 rrsagent, make logs public 15:01:57 ok, Andi, I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM already started 15:02:07 rrsagent, make log world 15:02:13 scribe: Andi 15:02:23 Meeting: AAPI 15:04:49 +[Mozilla] 15:04:50 Zakim, who is on phone? 15:04:59 Zakim, Mozilla is David_Bolter 15:05:29 I don't understand your question, davidb. 15:05:40 +David_Bolter; got it 15:05:48 chair: Andi 15:06:04 chair: Cynthia 15:06:28 +Cynthia_Shelly 15:13:46 cyns has joined #aapi 15:14:20 topic: goals and schedule for next draft 15:14:51 AS: 4.7 Actions, 4.8 Events, and 5.0 Special Document Processing need the most work 15:15:15 CS: is WAI-ARIA working to a target date? 15:15:22 AS: no - have to process comments 15:15:53 AS: got about 50 new comments or disagreement with disposition of comments on previous LC draft. 15:16:25 CS: April would be the soonest? Seems doable but do have SXSW in March. 15:16:53 CS: May seems more doable. Can work on these sections in a concentrated way the first two weeks of May. 15:17:31 AS: maybe we should split up the work into smaller pieces to get started before May. 15:20:40 action: all to read UAIG front to back 15:21:22 action: Andi to review all bugs and prioritize the ones that impact the Actions, Events, and Special Document sections 15:22:00 action: Andi to review all bugs and prioritize the ones that we have not dealt with yet at all in the UAIG. 15:22:18 topic: Open issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/10 15:24:30 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20091215/#document-handling_author-errors 15:24:48 issue 97: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/97 15:25:13 AS: we added a table of defaults when required states/properties not provided 15:26:18 DB: at an abstract level, are we adding attributes to the DOM that aren't there. 15:26:32 CS: was thinking we were just adding attributes to the accessibility API. 15:27:13 DB: so we're saying the UA should act as if the ARIA attributes were provided but not modify the DOM 15:28:24 action: Andi to create a bug to clarify the text around supplying default values for required properties that were not provided 15:28:43 DB: something like "behave as if the following default values were provided" 15:29:07 DB: then issue 97 should be closable 15:30:36 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20091215/#document-handling_author-errors 15:32:11 issue 98 (http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/98) and 99 (http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/99) 15:32:51 text at top of 5.3 addresses this - close these 15:33:23 issue 107: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/107 15:36:31 section 4.8.2 currently discusses node changes 15:36:48 DB: would make sense as a caution or alert but don't know if we do that in W3C documents 15:37:42 CS: could add paragraph after the two bullets that discuss node changes 15:39:21 issue 108: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/108 15:40:29 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20091215/#document-handling_author-errors 15:40:49 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20091215/#mapping_general 15:41:16 CS: this is about ID's on the accessible tree nodes 15:41:30 CS: could add a bullet to the list in section 4.1 15:42:13 CS: up to the user agent to get this right and authors should be free of having to worry about it 15:42:23 DB: not sure we need to say anything 15:42:36 DB: if others do, I'm fine with that. 15:43:07 CS: every node in the accessibility tree has an ID 15:43:49 DB: in MSAA, you have a bunch of data that specifies an accessible object - use ID to communicate with AT 15:44:21 CS: maybe something about managing IDs in the accessibility tree is the responsibility of the UA, not the author 15:44:41 action: David to talk to Rich for clarification on issue 108 15:45:01 issue 115: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/115 15:46:08 http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-wai-aria-implementation-20091215/#mapping_role 15:47:38 addressed by bullet 4 in the 4.4 Role Mapping 15:47:46 close issue 115 and refer to this section 15:48:05 issue 359: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/359 15:48:52 CS: in API mappings, it would go in description field 15:49:06 CS: valid issue - should deal with before our next draft 15:49:10 DB: think this is AT issue 15:49:39 CS: if aria-describedby points to a big chunk of HTML, how would you pass that in a description field 15:50:27 DB: don't know if we're going to be able to do this for ARIA 1.0 15:51:25 CS: maybe something like "UAs MAY provide a way for the user to navigate to an associated describedby and ATs SHOULD provide such a method." 15:52:21 DB: think this is a good idea but think it would require platform API changes 15:52:26 CS: it's the sort of thing ATs do. 15:52:50 CS: useful for anyone to be able to do 15:53:18 DB: example in e-mail - image that is described by a data grid 15:53:36 CS: AT could navigate it 15:53:44 DB: not sure how AT would know where to do 15:55:08 close this issue with text such as Cynthia suggested above. 15:57:00 issue 379: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/379 15:57:16 CS: don't think we can get IE to change implementation 15:57:26 DB: would rather change implementation than have diverging ones 15:57:55 AS: Apple would disagree with implementing this the way IE has done it 15:58:21 DB: do we even need it in the spec? 15:58:41 CS: the IE implementation is per the advice of the MSAA inventors 15:58:55 CS: conflict caused by IA2 15:59:28 CS: concept of relationships that are other than the tree relationships doesn't exist in MSAA 15:59:37 CS: IA2 has the concept of additional relationships 15:59:49 CS: doesn't map well to MSAA or UIA 16:01:09 CS: pretty sure there's no way in UIA to expose the relationship 16:01:28 DB: think maybe it shouldn't belong in the spec 16:01:34 DB: is anyone using this? 16:03:52 CS: would recommend restructuring HTML so you don't need aria-owns 16:04:05 DB: it's in jquery 16:04:11 CS: that means it's everywhere 16:04:49 CS: specific to one accessibility API - so may not make sense to have it in ARIA at all 16:05:07 DB: would have to argue that the accessibility forecast is worse if we continue with diverging implementations 16:05:31 CS: two of the major APIs don't have this 16:05:41 DB: ATK has a way of exposing any kind of relationship 16:05:47 CS: not sure about Apple 16:05:54 DB: sounds like they do 16:07:03 CS: exists already in IE8 - will be around for a long time 16:07:39 CS: can ask for feature in UIA but don't think would get it 16:10:48 action: David and Cynthia to take the issue of aria-owns to the ARIA TF 16:11:11 -Andi_Snow-Weaver 16:11:11 atk relations: http://library.gnome.org/devel/atk/unstable/AtkRelation.html#AtkRelationType 16:11:13 -Cynthia_Shelly 16:11:16 -David_Bolter 16:11:17 WAI_PFWG(AAPI)10:00AM has ended 16:11:18 Attendees were Andi_Snow-Weaver, David_Bolter, Cynthia_Shelly 16:12:27 zakim, bye 16:12:27 Zakim has left #aapi 16:12:33 rrsagent, make minutes 16:12:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-aapi-minutes.html Andi 19:31:45 s/issues/98)/issues/98 )/ 19:31:55 rrsagent, make minutes 19:31:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-aapi-minutes.html Andi 19:33:46 s/98)/98 )/ 19:33:51 rrsagent, make minutes 19:33:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/09-aapi-minutes.html Andi