15:57:36 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:57:36 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-irc
15:57:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swxg
15:57:40 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7994
15:57:40 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:57:41 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2010
15:57:52 <alardw> alardw has joined #swxg
15:57:56 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
15:57:56 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, DKA
15:57:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr, karl, trackbot
15:59:14 <AnitaD> AnitaD has joined #swxg
16:00:35 <tpa> Zakim, who is here
16:00:35 <Zakim> tpa, you need to end that query with '?'
16:00:39 <tpa> Zakim, who is here?
16:00:39 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, tpa
16:00:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr, karl, trackbot
16:00:59 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:01:00 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, DKA
16:01:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr, karl, trackbot
16:01:31 <caribou> caribou has joined #swxg
16:02:06 <tpa> Zakim, this is SWXG.
16:02:06 <Zakim> ok, tpa; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM
16:02:07 <Zakim> +??P20
16:02:11 <tpa> Zakim, who is here?
16:02:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, ??P10, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], OpenLink_Software, ??P20
16:02:12 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:02:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:02:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, ??P10, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], OpenLink_Software, ??P20
16:02:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:02:22 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:02:22 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:02:24 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:02:25 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:02:27 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:02:27 <melvster> zakim, ??P20 is me
16:02:31 <Zakim> +Carine
16:02:33 <Zakim> +melvster; got it
16:02:37 <Zakim> +??P15
16:02:51 <DKA> Chair: DKA
16:02:52 <yoshiaki> zakim, ??P15 is me
16:02:52 <Zakim> +yoshiaki; got it
16:02:52 <tpa> Zakim, ??P10 is me
16:02:53 <Zakim> +tpa; got it
16:02:58 <tpa> Zakim, mute me
16:02:58 <Zakim> tpa should now be muted
16:03:01 <rreck> rreck has joined #swxg
16:03:05 <eschnou> we are trying to call in (eschnou and alardw) but get disconnected..
16:03:26 <Zakim> + +39.011.228.aabb
16:03:32 <Zakim> +??P26
16:03:42 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??P26 is hhalpin
16:03:42 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:04:23 <DKA> zakim, what is the code?
16:04:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA
16:04:33 <claudio> claudio has joined #swxg
16:05:13 <Zakim> + +03120485aacc
16:05:21 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:21 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yoshiaki
16:05:32 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:32 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anita
16:05:35 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:35 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MacTed (muted)
16:05:41 <hhalpin> MacTed or Yoshi?
16:05:49 <yoshiaki> I scribe
16:05:54 <hhalpin> Thanks yoshi!
16:06:09 <hhalpin> like...
16:06:16 <hhalpin> hhalpin: saying stuff
16:06:31 <caribou> Scribe: yoshiaki
16:06:32 <hhalpin> \me when you don't want to retype the name, just type ... blah blah
16:06:51 <hhalpin> ... more stuff
16:07:03 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/27-swxg-minutes.html
16:07:08 <claudio> Zakim, mute me
16:07:08 <Zakim> sorry, claudio, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:07:14 <Zakim> +??P30
16:07:15 <hhalpin> PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record
16:07:17 <hhalpin> +1
16:07:22 <tpa> +1
16:07:27 <rreck> zakim, ??P30 is me
16:07:27 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
16:07:32 <rreck> zakim, mute me
16:07:32 <Zakim> rreck should now be muted
16:07:33 <AnitaD> I can try
16:07:46 <hhalpin> APPROVED:   SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record
16:07:50 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:50 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tpa (muted)
16:07:53 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:53 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
16:07:54 <tpa> ok
16:07:56 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:56 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.510.931.aaaa
16:07:57 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:58 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yoshiaki
16:08:00 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:00 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck (muted)
16:08:03 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:03 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MacTed (muted)
16:08:07 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
16:08:08 <hhalpin> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:09 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.510.931.aaaa
16:08:15 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:08:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, tpa (muted), +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, MacTed (muted), melvster, Carine, yoshiaki, +39.011.228.aabb, hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck (muted)
16:08:25 <yoshiaki> who is speaking now?
16:08:33 <claudio> Zakim, aabb is me
16:08:33 <Zakim> +claudio; got it
16:08:35 <rreck> +1 meet again
16:08:51 <claudio> Zakim, mute me
16:08:51 <Zakim> claudio should now be muted
16:08:56 <yoshiaki> hhaplpin: next agenda is micropayment.
16:08:58 <hhalpin> APPROVED: meeting again Wed. February 10th: Micropayments
16:09:08 <hhalpin> Doug Schepers and Manu Sporny
16:09:14 <yoshiaki> s/hhaplpin/hhalpin
16:09:31 <hhalpin> OK...
16:09:45 <hhalpin> topic: Action Reminders
16:09:51 <hhalpin> we're skipping to get straight to talk
16:10:21 <hhalpin> topic: Anita Doehler, Eschnou and Alar on OneSocialWebAnita Doehler and Daniel Appelquist on OneSocialWeb
16:10:30 <yoshiaki> ...I am working at mailing list and know many kinds of works of social web.
16:11:41 <yoshiaki> Eschnow: I quickly explain my work.
16:12:17 <yoshiaki> ...distirbuted social web is work well for everyone.
16:13:08 <yoshiaki> ... how we look social web is identify openID, acitivity streams,,,,
16:13:46 <yoshiaki> ... realize social web requires identity, security, and etc.
16:14:08 <yoshiaki> ...there's no clear solution and old technologies is not enough.
16:15:17 <yoshiaki> ... all elements of XMPP is related to social profile and exchange social activities.
16:16:00 <yoshiaki> ... we make people in touch with each other
16:16:15 <melvster> http://onesocialweb.org/docs-protocol.html
16:16:21 <yoshiaki> ... we wrote source code by the end of the March and open it.
16:16:48 <tpa> The screenlast link at the bottom does not work
16:16:51 <tpa> 404s on Github
16:17:13 <alardw> Link to website: http://onesocialweb.org/index-live.html
16:17:16 <melvster> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGLcEN9hFw0
16:17:19 <melvster> screencast
16:17:44 <yoshiaki> ... screencast is server side component
16:17:59 <yoshiaki> ... one social web service to web client
16:18:30 <Adam> Adam has joined #swxg
16:18:46 <yoshiaki> ... screencast is one instance of server for any social network to show timeline.
16:20:05 <DKA> q?
16:20:09 <yoshiaki> ... push to all client server
16:20:58 <Zakim> +cperey
16:21:13 <yoshiaki> ... i post my activities with one distributed identfier like XMPP and other
16:21:59 <yoshiaki> ... we define in activity streams xml name space and we can provide data model and name space.
16:22:29 <hhalpin> q+
16:22:32 <tpa> q+ on Privacy filters, Implementation constraints (I can wait a while)
16:22:47 <yoshiaki> cperey: do you extend XMPP and activity streams/
16:22:57 <DKA> q?
16:23:24 <yoshiaki> Eschnou:yes. we want to XMPP community welcome our extension.
16:24:20 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #swxg
16:24:28 <yoshiaki> ... we respect each data models, activity streams; compact model and others.
16:24:40 <caribou> q+
16:24:43 <cperey> cperey has joined #swxg
16:24:46 <yoshiaki> hhalpin: we want to ask use case
16:25:22 <Zakim> +pchampin
16:25:29 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
16:25:29 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted
16:25:42 <yoshiaki> ... with XMPP and data models you do not need http, smtp.
16:26:04 <DKA> ack hhalpin
16:26:10 <yoshiaki> ... for web application, diffent kind of interection model, very interesting
16:26:40 <yoshiaki> tpa: question about privacy control
16:26:53 <claudio> q+
16:27:14 <caribou> s/tpa:/hhalpin:/
16:27:43 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: you can be public and privately update status.
16:28:44 <yoshiaki> ... you can pinpoint tag people for access control
16:29:11 <yoshiaki> ...you can control access of everyone.
16:29:37 <hhalpin> there are some interesting standards for tags
16:29:37 <yoshiaki> hhalpin: you repeatedly refer tag.
16:29:53 <hhalpin> so the tag is the way of doing access control - good idea!
16:30:06 <hhalpin> I'll get CommonTag and TagCommons on a future telecon
16:30:13 <DKA> q?
16:30:39 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: we develop tagging apis
16:30:44 <DKA> ack tpa
16:30:45 <Zakim> tpa, you wanted to comment on Privacy filters, Implementation constraints (I can wait a while)
16:30:54 <hhalpin> will get Peter on the call...
16:31:02 <hhalpin> to deal with tag ambiguity
16:31:08 <hhalpin> i.e. if two different people use the same tag for access
16:31:35 <yoshiaki> tpa: what kind of protocol developpers use?
16:32:13 <yoshiaki> ... each social application use different protocol
16:32:15 <DKA> q?
16:32:38 <Zakim> + +1.314.683.aadd
16:32:45 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: there is transport protocol, example is activity stereams.
16:33:02 <DKA> q?
16:33:15 <hhalpin> thanks for opensourcing this!
16:33:18 <yoshiaki> ... write xml perser for activity streams and java editor.
16:34:03 <hhalpin> q+
16:34:26 <bblfish> interesting to compare this with P2P preso by Kalman Graffi http://is.gd/7CMm at Dagstuhl last week, which is also a P2P java based system
16:35:02 <hhalpin> does that count gmail? the 100 million number
16:35:09 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: XMPP activities use community's effort.
16:35:35 <yoshiaki> ... open fire bloging.
16:35:51 <melvster> i run an openfire server, ill see if i can run this ...
16:36:00 <bblfish> q+
16:36:18 <yoshiaki> ... XMPP is easy to build implementation.
16:37:26 <yoshiaki> ... open stack helps us to access other social application's data. 
16:37:28 <DKA> ack cari
16:37:32 <tpa> Zakim, mute me
16:37:32 <Zakim> tpa should now be muted
16:37:40 <tpa> yup
16:37:45 <bblfish> sorry should have been http://is.gd/7CMm7
16:37:54 <claudio> Zakim, unmute me
16:37:54 <Zakim> claudio should no longer be muted
16:38:04 <DKA> q?
16:38:25 <yoshiaki> claudio: you mension some access control language
16:38:36 <bblfish> so:  P2P preso by Kalman Graffi http://is.gd/7CMm7
16:38:37 <caribou> s/claudio:/carine:
16:38:55 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: there is XML base access control but it is too complex.
16:39:22 <yoshiaki> ...most of element of protcol is not mature, so we want feedback.
16:39:26 <DKA> ack claudio
16:39:50 <yoshiaki> claudio: question about android version
16:40:22 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: we are wainting the platform get to be stable.
16:40:56 <DKA> ack hhalpin
16:41:08 <yoshiaki> ... we are intend to create with html and javascript by end of march.
16:42:24 <yoshiaki> ... Android's architecture is different from iPhone.
16:43:27 <yoshiaki> ... XMPP runs stable on android and use less battery power.
16:43:43 <claudio> Zakim, mute me
16:43:43 <Zakim> claudio should now be muted
16:43:56 <yoshiaki> hhalpin: what's your feeling about of future of standard XMPP based?
16:44:19 <yoshiaki> ... do you found XMPP foundation, or collaborate with W3C?
16:45:00 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:45:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, tpa (muted), +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, MacTed (muted), melvster, Carine, yoshiaki, claudio (muted), hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck (muted), cperey, pchampin
16:45:03 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.314.683.aadd
16:45:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see cperey, pchampin, Adam, claudio, rreck, caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon,
16:45:06 <Zakim> ... tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:45:10 <DKA> q?
16:45:30 <DKA> zakim, aadd is eschnou
16:45:30 <Zakim> +eschnou; got it
16:45:32 <yoshiaki> Eschnou: most of use case needs more extention.
16:45:45 <DKA> zakim, eschnou holds alardw
16:45:45 <Zakim> +alardw; got it
16:45:52 <DKA> q?
16:46:16 <DKA> zakim, aacc is eschnou
16:46:16 <Zakim> +eschnou; got it
16:46:22 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
16:46:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, tpa (muted), +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, MacTed (muted), melvster, Carine, yoshiaki, claudio (muted), hhalpin, eschnou.a, rreck (muted), cperey, pchampin
16:46:25 <Zakim> ... (muted), eschnou
16:46:25 <Zakim> eschnou has alardw
16:46:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see cperey, pchampin, Adam, claudio, rreck, caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon,
16:46:29 <Zakim> ... tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:46:32 <yoshiaki> ... google wave shows us XMPP is application.
16:46:46 <yoshiaki> ... google wave has very simple protocol.
16:47:46 <yoshiaki> ...XMPP and activity stream change social application.
16:48:01 <bblfish> access control on wave is very difficult
16:48:06 <yoshiaki> ...but we don't want to users type their status.
16:48:33 <yoshiaki> ...google has not propose security of wave's client
16:48:38 <DKA> ack bblfish
16:49:50 <yoshiaki> ... server have to no data in servers.
16:50:54 <yoshiaki> ... google wave is not sensurize. 
16:51:40 <yoshiaki> ... all the data together in one server or another. all your activities, all your media asset is aggregated in the server.
16:51:47 <hhalpin> s/sensurize/centralize
16:53:02 <yoshiaki> ... you can download source code for server, and use outside of the internet.
16:53:41 <DKA> q?
16:53:45 <yoshiaki> ... you can keep several server and each server can be used for different usage.
16:54:15 <yoshiaki> DKA: question about PHP server?
16:54:48 <yoshiaki> ... when document exchange, is document duplicated?
16:55:08 <DKA> s/DKA: question about PHP server?/bblfish: Question about P2P server?/
16:55:19 <DKA> :)
16:55:34 <yoshiaki> ... when requesting document, we have layer for document exchange?
16:56:03 <yoshiaki> ... http or smtp is basic system?  and how is semantics? 
16:57:04 <yoshiaki> eschnou: semantics is needed in application layer.
16:58:19 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #swxg
16:58:27 <pchampin> zakim, mute me
16:58:27 <Zakim> pchampin was already muted, pchampin
16:58:28 <yoshiaki> bblfish: XMPP is http P2P system?
16:58:54 <yoshiaki> eschnou: there is fantastic conversation in public mailing list.
16:59:26 <melvster> question:  should we cross post to the onesocialweb mailing list?
17:00:12 <cperey> where is the One Social Web mailing list?
17:00:30 <melvster> http://groups.google.com/group/onesocialweb?lnk=srg
17:00:35 <melvster> one social web mailing list
17:01:06 <yoshiaki> melvster: question about high level principle of social web 
17:01:28 <bblfish> So the first part was to compare three systems HTTP, XMPP, P2P based mentioned above.
17:01:35 <bblfish> All three have the following elements:
17:01:48 <bblfish>  - a document exchange protocol
17:02:04 <bblfish>  - a syntax (or more in the case of HTTP) for exchanging docs
17:02:11 <bblfish>  - semantics associated with the docs
17:02:28 <alardw> thanks everyone would there be any further questions please ping us
17:02:31 <bblfish>  ( - and behavior associated with message requests )
17:02:43 <yoshiaki> hhalpin: we have to re-schedule agenda about micropayment.
17:02:51 <yoshiaki> ... and other agenda
17:03:04 <bblfish>  from this an intersting point comes up: that at least the semantics between XMPP, HTTP, and other systems can be agreed upon
17:03:15 <rreck> thanks for presenting
17:03:24 <bblfish> ie, any social networking service should be able to interoperate at the semantic layer
17:03:36 <melvster> thanks
17:03:38 <Zakim> -eschnou
17:03:38 <Zakim> -cperey
17:03:40 <Zakim> -anita
17:03:40 <Zakim> -DKA
17:03:41 <Zakim> -tpa
17:03:41 <Zakim> -Carine
17:03:44 <yoshiaki> thank you!
17:03:44 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:03:48 <DKA> Thanks all!
17:03:54 <Zakim> -pchampin
17:03:56 <Zakim> -claudio
17:03:58 <eschnou> thanks everyone for the questions and feedback !
17:04:01 <Zakim> -rreck
17:04:03 <Zakim> -melvster
17:04:06 <Zakim> -eschnou.a
17:04:14 <Zakim> -hhalpin
17:04:16 <Zakim> -yoshiaki
17:04:18 <Zakim> - +1.510.931.aaaa
17:04:19 <Zakim> INC_SWXG()11:00AM has ended
17:04:20 <Zakim> Attendees were DKA, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], MacTed, Carine, melvster, yoshiaki, tpa, +39.011.228.aabb, hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck, claudio, cperey, pchampin,
17:04:23 <Zakim> ... +1.314.683.aadd, alardw, eschnou
17:35:52 <melvster> melvster has left #swxg
17:38:09 <FabGandon> FabGandon has left #swxg
17:41:31 <Adam> Adam has left #swxg
17:44:27 <caribou> caribou has left #swxg
17:44:48 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:44:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
19:25:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swxg
19:27:15 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #swxg