IRC log of swxg on 2010-02-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:57:36 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swxg
15:57:36 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-irc
15:57:38 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:38 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swxg
15:57:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7994
15:57:40 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:41 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference
15:57:41 [trackbot]
Date: 03 February 2010
15:57:52 [alardw]
alardw has joined #swxg
15:57:56 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
15:57:56 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, DKA
15:57:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr, karl, trackbot
15:59:14 [AnitaD]
AnitaD has joined #swxg
16:00:35 [tpa]
Zakim, who is here
16:00:35 [Zakim]
tpa, you need to end that query with '?'
16:00:39 [tpa]
Zakim, who is here?
16:00:39 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, tpa
16:00:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr, karl, trackbot
16:00:59 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
16:01:00 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()11:00AM has not yet started, DKA
16:01:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr, karl, trackbot
16:01:31 [caribou]
caribou has joined #swxg
16:02:06 [tpa]
Zakim, this is SWXG.
16:02:06 [Zakim]
ok, tpa; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM
16:02:07 [Zakim]
+??P20
16:02:11 [tpa]
Zakim, who is here?
16:02:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DKA, ??P10, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], OpenLink_Software, ??P20
16:02:12 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
16:02:14 [Zakim]
On IRC I see caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:02:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DKA, ??P10, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], OpenLink_Software, ??P20
16:02:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon, tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:02:22 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:02:22 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
16:02:24 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
16:02:25 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
16:02:27 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
16:02:27 [melvster]
zakim, ??P20 is me
16:02:31 [Zakim]
+Carine
16:02:33 [Zakim]
+melvster; got it
16:02:37 [Zakim]
+??P15
16:02:51 [DKA]
Chair: DKA
16:02:52 [yoshiaki]
zakim, ??P15 is me
16:02:52 [Zakim]
+yoshiaki; got it
16:02:52 [tpa]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
16:02:53 [Zakim]
+tpa; got it
16:02:58 [tpa]
Zakim, mute me
16:02:58 [Zakim]
tpa should now be muted
16:03:01 [rreck]
rreck has joined #swxg
16:03:05 [eschnou]
we are trying to call in (eschnou and alardw) but get disconnected..
16:03:26 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aabb
16:03:32 [Zakim]
+??P26
16:03:42 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P26 is hhalpin
16:03:42 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
16:04:23 [DKA]
zakim, what is the code?
16:04:23 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7994 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DKA
16:04:33 [claudio]
claudio has joined #swxg
16:05:13 [Zakim]
+ +03120485aacc
16:05:21 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:21 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yoshiaki
16:05:32 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:32 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anita
16:05:35 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:05:35 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MacTed (muted)
16:05:41 [hhalpin]
MacTed or Yoshi?
16:05:49 [yoshiaki]
I scribe
16:05:54 [hhalpin]
Thanks yoshi!
16:06:09 [hhalpin]
like...
16:06:16 [hhalpin]
hhalpin: saying stuff
16:06:31 [caribou]
Scribe: yoshiaki
16:06:32 [hhalpin]
\me when you don't want to retype the name, just type ... blah blah
16:06:51 [hhalpin]
... more stuff
16:07:03 [DKA]
http://www.w3.org/2010/01/27-swxg-minutes.html
16:07:08 [claudio]
Zakim, mute me
16:07:08 [Zakim]
sorry, claudio, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:07:14 [Zakim]
+??P30
16:07:15 [hhalpin]
PROPOSED: to approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record
16:07:17 [hhalpin]
+1
16:07:22 [tpa]
+1
16:07:27 [rreck]
zakim, ??P30 is me
16:07:27 [Zakim]
+rreck; got it
16:07:32 [rreck]
zakim, mute me
16:07:32 [Zakim]
rreck should now be muted
16:07:33 [AnitaD]
I can try
16:07:46 [hhalpin]
APPROVED: SWXG WG Weekly -- 27 January 2010 as a true record
16:07:50 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:50 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tpa (muted)
16:07:53 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:53 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
16:07:54 [tpa]
ok
16:07:56 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:56 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.510.931.aaaa
16:07:57 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:07:58 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yoshiaki
16:08:00 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:00 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rreck (muted)
16:08:03 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:03 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MacTed (muted)
16:08:07 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:07 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin
16:08:08 [hhalpin]
Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:09 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.510.931.aaaa
16:08:15 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:08:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DKA, tpa (muted), +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, MacTed (muted), melvster, Carine, yoshiaki, +39.011.228.aabb, hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck (muted)
16:08:25 [yoshiaki]
who is speaking now?
16:08:33 [claudio]
Zakim, aabb is me
16:08:33 [Zakim]
+claudio; got it
16:08:35 [rreck]
+1 meet again
16:08:51 [claudio]
Zakim, mute me
16:08:51 [Zakim]
claudio should now be muted
16:08:56 [yoshiaki]
hhaplpin: next agenda is micropayment.
16:08:58 [hhalpin]
APPROVED: meeting again Wed. February 10th: Micropayments
16:09:08 [hhalpin]
Doug Schepers and Manu Sporny
16:09:14 [yoshiaki]
s/hhaplpin/hhalpin
16:09:31 [hhalpin]
OK...
16:09:45 [hhalpin]
topic: Action Reminders
16:09:51 [hhalpin]
we're skipping to get straight to talk
16:10:21 [hhalpin]
topic: Anita Doehler, Eschnou and Alar on OneSocialWebAnita Doehler and Daniel Appelquist on OneSocialWeb
16:10:30 [yoshiaki]
...I am working at mailing list and know many kinds of works of social web.
16:11:41 [yoshiaki]
Eschnow: I quickly explain my work.
16:12:17 [yoshiaki]
...distirbuted social web is work well for everyone.
16:13:08 [yoshiaki]
... how we look social web is identify openID, acitivity streams,,,,
16:13:46 [yoshiaki]
... realize social web requires identity, security, and etc.
16:14:08 [yoshiaki]
...there's no clear solution and old technologies is not enough.
16:15:17 [yoshiaki]
... all elements of XMPP is related to social profile and exchange social activities.
16:16:00 [yoshiaki]
... we make people in touch with each other
16:16:15 [melvster]
http://onesocialweb.org/docs-protocol.html
16:16:21 [yoshiaki]
... we wrote source code by the end of the March and open it.
16:16:48 [tpa]
The screenlast link at the bottom does not work
16:16:51 [tpa]
404s on Github
16:17:13 [alardw]
Link to website: http://onesocialweb.org/index-live.html
16:17:16 [melvster]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGLcEN9hFw0
16:17:19 [melvster]
screencast
16:17:44 [yoshiaki]
... screencast is server side component
16:17:59 [yoshiaki]
... one social web service to web client
16:18:30 [Adam]
Adam has joined #swxg
16:18:46 [yoshiaki]
... screencast is one instance of server for any social network to show timeline.
16:20:05 [DKA]
q?
16:20:09 [yoshiaki]
... push to all client server
16:20:58 [Zakim]
+cperey
16:21:13 [yoshiaki]
... i post my activities with one distributed identfier like XMPP and other
16:21:59 [yoshiaki]
... we define in activity streams xml name space and we can provide data model and name space.
16:22:29 [hhalpin]
q+
16:22:32 [tpa]
q+ on Privacy filters, Implementation constraints (I can wait a while)
16:22:47 [yoshiaki]
cperey: do you extend XMPP and activity streams/
16:22:57 [DKA]
q?
16:23:24 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou:yes. we want to XMPP community welcome our extension.
16:24:20 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #swxg
16:24:28 [yoshiaki]
... we respect each data models, activity streams; compact model and others.
16:24:40 [caribou]
q+
16:24:43 [cperey]
cperey has joined #swxg
16:24:46 [yoshiaki]
hhalpin: we want to ask use case
16:25:22 [Zakim]
+pchampin
16:25:29 [pchampin]
zakim, mute me
16:25:29 [Zakim]
pchampin should now be muted
16:25:42 [yoshiaki]
... with XMPP and data models you do not need http, smtp.
16:26:04 [DKA]
ack hhalpin
16:26:10 [yoshiaki]
... for web application, diffent kind of interection model, very interesting
16:26:40 [yoshiaki]
tpa: question about privacy control
16:26:53 [claudio]
q+
16:27:14 [caribou]
s/tpa:/hhalpin:/
16:27:43 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: you can be public and privately update status.
16:28:44 [yoshiaki]
... you can pinpoint tag people for access control
16:29:11 [yoshiaki]
...you can control access of everyone.
16:29:37 [hhalpin]
there are some interesting standards for tags
16:29:37 [yoshiaki]
hhalpin: you repeatedly refer tag.
16:29:53 [hhalpin]
so the tag is the way of doing access control - good idea!
16:30:06 [hhalpin]
I'll get CommonTag and TagCommons on a future telecon
16:30:13 [DKA]
q?
16:30:39 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: we develop tagging apis
16:30:44 [DKA]
ack tpa
16:30:45 [Zakim]
tpa, you wanted to comment on Privacy filters, Implementation constraints (I can wait a while)
16:30:54 [hhalpin]
will get Peter on the call...
16:31:02 [hhalpin]
to deal with tag ambiguity
16:31:08 [hhalpin]
i.e. if two different people use the same tag for access
16:31:35 [yoshiaki]
tpa: what kind of protocol developpers use?
16:32:13 [yoshiaki]
... each social application use different protocol
16:32:15 [DKA]
q?
16:32:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.314.683.aadd
16:32:45 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: there is transport protocol, example is activity stereams.
16:33:02 [DKA]
q?
16:33:15 [hhalpin]
thanks for opensourcing this!
16:33:18 [yoshiaki]
... write xml perser for activity streams and java editor.
16:34:03 [hhalpin]
q+
16:34:26 [bblfish]
interesting to compare this with P2P preso by Kalman Graffi http://is.gd/7CMm at Dagstuhl last week, which is also a P2P java based system
16:35:02 [hhalpin]
does that count gmail? the 100 million number
16:35:09 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: XMPP activities use community's effort.
16:35:35 [yoshiaki]
... open fire bloging.
16:35:51 [melvster]
i run an openfire server, ill see if i can run this ...
16:36:00 [bblfish]
q+
16:36:18 [yoshiaki]
... XMPP is easy to build implementation.
16:37:26 [yoshiaki]
... open stack helps us to access other social application's data.
16:37:28 [DKA]
ack cari
16:37:32 [tpa]
Zakim, mute me
16:37:32 [Zakim]
tpa should now be muted
16:37:40 [tpa]
yup
16:37:45 [bblfish]
sorry should have been http://is.gd/7CMm7
16:37:54 [claudio]
Zakim, unmute me
16:37:54 [Zakim]
claudio should no longer be muted
16:38:04 [DKA]
q?
16:38:25 [yoshiaki]
claudio: you mension some access control language
16:38:36 [bblfish]
so: P2P preso by Kalman Graffi http://is.gd/7CMm7
16:38:37 [caribou]
s/claudio:/carine:
16:38:55 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: there is XML base access control but it is too complex.
16:39:22 [yoshiaki]
...most of element of protcol is not mature, so we want feedback.
16:39:26 [DKA]
ack claudio
16:39:50 [yoshiaki]
claudio: question about android version
16:40:22 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: we are wainting the platform get to be stable.
16:40:56 [DKA]
ack hhalpin
16:41:08 [yoshiaki]
... we are intend to create with html and javascript by end of march.
16:42:24 [yoshiaki]
... Android's architecture is different from iPhone.
16:43:27 [yoshiaki]
... XMPP runs stable on android and use less battery power.
16:43:43 [claudio]
Zakim, mute me
16:43:43 [Zakim]
claudio should now be muted
16:43:56 [yoshiaki]
hhalpin: what's your feeling about of future of standard XMPP based?
16:44:19 [yoshiaki]
... do you found XMPP foundation, or collaborate with W3C?
16:45:00 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
16:45:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DKA, tpa (muted), +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, MacTed (muted), melvster, Carine, yoshiaki, claudio (muted), hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck (muted), cperey, pchampin
16:45:03 [Zakim]
... (muted), +1.314.683.aadd
16:45:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see cperey, pchampin, Adam, claudio, rreck, caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon,
16:45:06 [Zakim]
... tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:45:10 [DKA]
q?
16:45:30 [DKA]
zakim, aadd is eschnou
16:45:30 [Zakim]
+eschnou; got it
16:45:32 [yoshiaki]
Eschnou: most of use case needs more extention.
16:45:45 [DKA]
zakim, eschnou holds alardw
16:45:45 [Zakim]
+alardw; got it
16:45:52 [DKA]
q?
16:46:16 [DKA]
zakim, aacc is eschnou
16:46:16 [Zakim]
+eschnou; got it
16:46:22 [DKA]
zakim, who is here?
16:46:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DKA, tpa (muted), +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, MacTed (muted), melvster, Carine, yoshiaki, claudio (muted), hhalpin, eschnou.a, rreck (muted), cperey, pchampin
16:46:25 [Zakim]
... (muted), eschnou
16:46:25 [Zakim]
eschnou has alardw
16:46:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see cperey, pchampin, Adam, claudio, rreck, caribou, AnitaD, alardw, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, DKA, tpa, yoshiaki, eschnou, mischat, bblfish, melvster, MacTed, FabGandon,
16:46:29 [Zakim]
... tlr-bbiab, karl, trackbot
16:46:32 [yoshiaki]
... google wave shows us XMPP is application.
16:46:46 [yoshiaki]
... google wave has very simple protocol.
16:47:46 [yoshiaki]
...XMPP and activity stream change social application.
16:48:01 [bblfish]
access control on wave is very difficult
16:48:06 [yoshiaki]
...but we don't want to users type their status.
16:48:33 [yoshiaki]
...google has not propose security of wave's client
16:48:38 [DKA]
ack bblfish
16:49:50 [yoshiaki]
... server have to no data in servers.
16:50:54 [yoshiaki]
... google wave is not sensurize.
16:51:40 [yoshiaki]
... all the data together in one server or another. all your activities, all your media asset is aggregated in the server.
16:51:47 [hhalpin]
s/sensurize/centralize
16:53:02 [yoshiaki]
... you can download source code for server, and use outside of the internet.
16:53:41 [DKA]
q?
16:53:45 [yoshiaki]
... you can keep several server and each server can be used for different usage.
16:54:15 [yoshiaki]
DKA: question about PHP server?
16:54:48 [yoshiaki]
... when document exchange, is document duplicated?
16:55:08 [DKA]
s/DKA: question about PHP server?/bblfish: Question about P2P server?/
16:55:19 [DKA]
:)
16:55:34 [yoshiaki]
... when requesting document, we have layer for document exchange?
16:56:03 [yoshiaki]
... http or smtp is basic system? and how is semantics?
16:57:04 [yoshiaki]
eschnou: semantics is needed in application layer.
16:58:19 [pchampin]
pchampin has joined #swxg
16:58:27 [pchampin]
zakim, mute me
16:58:27 [Zakim]
pchampin was already muted, pchampin
16:58:28 [yoshiaki]
bblfish: XMPP is http P2P system?
16:58:54 [yoshiaki]
eschnou: there is fantastic conversation in public mailing list.
16:59:26 [melvster]
question: should we cross post to the onesocialweb mailing list?
17:00:12 [cperey]
where is the One Social Web mailing list?
17:00:30 [melvster]
http://groups.google.com/group/onesocialweb?lnk=srg
17:00:35 [melvster]
one social web mailing list
17:01:06 [yoshiaki]
melvster: question about high level principle of social web
17:01:28 [bblfish]
So the first part was to compare three systems HTTP, XMPP, P2P based mentioned above.
17:01:35 [bblfish]
All three have the following elements:
17:01:48 [bblfish]
- a document exchange protocol
17:02:04 [bblfish]
- a syntax (or more in the case of HTTP) for exchanging docs
17:02:11 [bblfish]
- semantics associated with the docs
17:02:28 [alardw]
thanks everyone would there be any further questions please ping us
17:02:31 [bblfish]
( - and behavior associated with message requests )
17:02:43 [yoshiaki]
hhalpin: we have to re-schedule agenda about micropayment.
17:02:51 [yoshiaki]
... and other agenda
17:03:04 [bblfish]
from this an intersting point comes up: that at least the semantics between XMPP, HTTP, and other systems can be agreed upon
17:03:15 [rreck]
thanks for presenting
17:03:24 [bblfish]
ie, any social networking service should be able to interoperate at the semantic layer
17:03:36 [melvster]
thanks
17:03:38 [Zakim]
-eschnou
17:03:38 [Zakim]
-cperey
17:03:40 [Zakim]
-anita
17:03:40 [Zakim]
-DKA
17:03:41 [Zakim]
-tpa
17:03:41 [Zakim]
-Carine
17:03:44 [yoshiaki]
thank you!
17:03:44 [Zakim]
-MacTed
17:03:48 [DKA]
Thanks all!
17:03:54 [Zakim]
-pchampin
17:03:56 [Zakim]
-claudio
17:03:58 [eschnou]
thanks everyone for the questions and feedback !
17:04:01 [Zakim]
-rreck
17:04:03 [Zakim]
-melvster
17:04:06 [Zakim]
-eschnou.a
17:04:14 [Zakim]
-hhalpin
17:04:16 [Zakim]
-yoshiaki
17:04:18 [Zakim]
- +1.510.931.aaaa
17:04:19 [Zakim]
INC_SWXG()11:00AM has ended
17:04:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were DKA, +1.510.931.aaaa, anita, [IPcaller], MacTed, Carine, melvster, yoshiaki, tpa, +39.011.228.aabb, hhalpin, +03120485aacc, rreck, claudio, cperey, pchampin,
17:04:23 [Zakim]
... +1.314.683.aadd, alardw, eschnou
17:35:52 [melvster]
melvster has left #swxg
17:38:09 [FabGandon]
FabGandon has left #swxg
17:41:31 [Adam]
Adam has left #swxg
17:44:27 [caribou]
caribou has left #swxg
17:44:48 [hhalpin]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:44:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-swxg-minutes.html hhalpin
19:25:38 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swxg
19:27:15 [bblfish]
bblfish has joined #swxg