13:14:12 RRSAgent has joined #egov 13:14:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-egov-irc 13:14:17 RRSAgent, make log public 13:14:22 zakim, this will be egov 13:14:22 ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes 13:26:37 Sandro - do we have an agenda for this meeting at all? 13:26:55 I'm about to send out. Kevin was supposed to chair but cancelled. :-( 13:27:18 kk - I'm here, just in another program. back in 30 for meeting 13:46:43 sandro has changed the topic to: 3 Feb IG call: AGENDA http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2010Feb/0031.html 13:53:59 Cory has joined #egov 13:56:22 bandholtz has joined #egov 13:59:01 george has joined #egov 13:59:04 T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started 13:59:11 +Sandro 13:59:14 scribe: jose 13:59:29 josema has joined #egov 13:59:40 +Cory 13:59:49 martin_spain has joined #egov 14:00:01 + +49.178.404.aaaa 14:00:12 +Brand 14:00:27 zakim, aaaa is bandholtz 14:00:27 +bandholtz; got it 14:00:43 +Martin 14:00:54 zakim, Martin has also me 14:00:54 +also, josema; got it 14:01:20 zakim, who is here? 14:01:20 On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin 14:01:22 Martin has also, josema 14:01:23 On IRC I see martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot 14:01:25 +Karen 14:01:26 Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov 14:01:52 karen has joined #egov 14:01:54 zakim, martin has josema 14:01:54 josema was already listed in Martin, sandro 14:01:56 + +1.202.441.aabb 14:02:11 +Daniel_Bennett 14:02:20 zakim, aabb is George_Thomas 14:02:20 +George_Thomas; got it 14:02:42 + +1.301.825.aacc 14:03:32 - +1.301.825.aacc 14:03:47 zakim, who is here? 14:03:47 On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett 14:03:50 Martin has also, josema 14:03:52 On IRC I see karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot 14:03:54 scribe: josema 14:03:54 + +0208392aadd 14:03:55 + +1.804.928.aaee 14:04:04 edsu has joined #egov 14:04:17 zakim, aaee is Harry_Holt 14:04:17 +Harry_Holt; got it 14:04:36 zakim, aadd is John_Sheridan 14:04:36 +John_Sheridan; got it 14:04:41 +[LC] 14:04:44 zakim, LC is edsu 14:04:44 +edsu; got it 14:04:48 zakim, who is here? 14:04:48 On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett, John_Sheridan, Harry_Holt, edsu 14:04:50 Martin has also, josema 14:04:51 On IRC I see edsu, karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot 14:04:52 rrsagent, start telcon 14:04:52 I'm logging. I don't understand 'start telcon', josema. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:05:19 probably snow day here in washington dc area 14:05:21 sandro: chairing this one myself since Kevin couldn't finally make it 14:05:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2010Feb/0031.html 14:05:40 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2010Feb/0031 14:05:51 topic: administration 14:05:56 ... main point is to hear john about data.gov.uk 14:06:02 minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/meeting/2010-01-20 14:06:18 sandro: any comments about the minutes? 14:06:24 [none heard] 14:06:30 http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Meetings 14:06:40 ... next meeting in two weeks 14:06:52 ... need a scribe volunteer, please? 14:06:54 scribe volunteer? 14:06:58 luigi has joined #egov 14:07:01 regrets for next meeting - out of the country 14:07:11 +1 Ed 14:07:13 next scribe: EdSu 14:07:25 [Ed volunteers to scribe on 17 Feb] 14:07:26 q+ 14:07:33 sandro: any comments about agenda today? 14:07:44 hi all 14:07:49 karen: any updates around Comm, outreach and conferences? 14:07:51 topic: Action Item Review 14:08:06 sandro: sure, when talking about news, etc. 14:08:12 back 14:08:37 action-14? 14:08:37 ACTION-14 -- John Sheridan to share how he justified the business decision of becoming W3C Members -- due 2008-10-30 -- OPEN 14:08:37 http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/14 14:08:48 sandro: john on sharing business case to become W3C Members 14:08:54 john: yeah, still on me 14:09:00 sandro: want a deadline? 14:09:10 + +1.303.748.aaff 14:09:15 - +1.303.748.aaff 14:09:33 john: not a bad idea, let's say that in 2 weeks time (17 Feb) 14:09:37 + +1.303.748.aagg 14:09:38 sandro: ok 14:09:47 action-76? 14:09:47 ACTION-76 -- José Manuel Alonso to address funding issue -- due 2009-12-31 -- OPEN 14:09:47 http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/76 14:10:27 MoZ has joined #egov 14:11:03 zakim, aagg is Gryth 14:11:03 +Gryth; got it 14:11:11 josema: not working on it anymore, should be better on the Coord Team 14:11:13 action-89? 14:11:13 ACTION-89 -- José Manuel Alonso to explore the feasibility of various European venues and conference collaborations and propose specific dates -- due 2009-09-16 -- OPEN 14:11:13 http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/89 14:11:23 ... it's about finding a way forward in terms of funding 14:12:18 josema: I tried to schedule a F2F in Brussels in December, but it was complicated by other events, so that was postponed. I wanted to do something TimBL could attend. 14:12:59 q 14:13:07 +1 around key events 14:13:49 close action-89 14:13:49 ACTION-89 explore the feasibility of various European venues and conference collaborations and propose specific dates closed 14:14:10 josema: maybe better to schedule around events in DC in March, I don't see how to make this happen in EU in the short term 14:14:38 action-95 14:14:45 topic: General Announcements, News 14:14:54 sandro: will try to do by next week?? 14:15:26 - RDFa Working Group begins 14:15:30 +q 14:15:36 sandro: a new group has been launched on RDFa, embedding RDF in HTML pages 14:16:03 ack Daniel_bennett 14:16:05 +Rachel 14:16:26 Awesome news :) 14:16:40 daniel: opengov directive (un)conferences taking place in DC, next one on Feb 17 14:17:01 ... last time had folks from OMB and other agencies that need to implement the OGD by April 14:17:09 - US Gov't Budget announced ($81bn for IT?) 14:17:38 sandro: heard from kevin, need to find more detail about allocation 14:17:58 cory: that'll be hard 14:18:09 - Gov 2.0 Expo (proposal(s) accepted) 14:18:09 cory: very hard, but there may be a way, I guess 14:19:11 karen: IG submitted two proposals: panel on tradeoff and various types of techs (still under consideration) 14:19:30 ... second for workshop on how to put open data on the Web (accepted) 14:19:37 ... sandro and john to co-chair 14:19:59 ... another proposal from W3C on Accesibility (accepted, too) will see Judy Brewer 14:20:10 ... talking about that and its relation with mobile, etc. 14:20:18 ... we're very happy, very good visibility for us 14:20:29 +1 Jose 14:20:35 ... also submitted to O'Reilly, no news yet 14:20:45 yes 14:20:50 sandro: quick poll: who expects to attend? 14:20:53 poll: attending gov 2 ? 14:20:54 +.5 14:20:54 -1 14:20:55 +1 14:20:58 +1 - $$? tho 14:20:59 -1 14:21:00 + 14:21:02 1 14:21:04 cgi-irc has joined #egov 14:21:11 brian: -1 (probably) 14:21:27 - FOSE (proposal(s) accepted) 14:21:40 poll: attending fose 14:21:45 Rachel +1 14:21:45 sandro: more proposals accepted, one for FOSE 14:21:46 +.5 14:21:47 sandro: don't know 14:21:48 -1 14:21:52 -1 14:21:54 -1 (same time as W3C AC meeting) 14:21:55 +.25 14:22:05 -1 # will be in dc though 14:22:20 -1 :( 14:22:28 sandro: anything else about FOSE proposal? 14:22:43 karen: panel, kevin to chair, more focused on LOD 14:22:51 ... daniel also participating 14:23:10 FOSE panel is Kevin, John, Daniel & Rachel 14:23:14 karen: more announcements 14:23:32 subtopic: W3C AC members: AC meeting March 21-23 14:23:33 ... for W3C AC Reps, registration is open (21-23 march at MIT) 14:23:46 ... WWW2010, April, Raleigh, LOD camp there 14:24:07 ... Web Science trust probably will co-locate and discuss eGov topics 14:24:10 http://www2010.org/www/ 14:24:17 ... opportunity to co-locate a eGov IG F2F, too 14:24:40 ... RDF workshop announced, Ivan Herman is eager to see papers on vertical application areas 14:24:54 ... such as eGov, I want to encourage to submit 14:25:19 sandro: I wrote a blog post about the topic a couple months ago 14:25:20 first REST conference is happening at www2010 too http://ws-rest.org/ 14:25:32 sandro: any other announcements? 14:25:51 john: tomorrow I've been invited by Danish government to speak about data.gov.uk 14:26:00 nice John. have fun 14:26:04 +1 John Sheridan in Copenhagen 14:26:10 ... I'll be in Copenhagen, Danish Minister to open 14:26:10 +1 14:26:24 ... 24 Feb, meetup in London 14:26:49 ... Setefano ?? project officer at EU looking at SW and use and adoption by Govs 14:27:03 ... he's trying to organize a workshop in Sept 14:27:57 karen: http://www.meetup.com/Web-Of-Data/calendar/12317420/ 14:28:13 rachel: reminder to everyone in the US that agencies are supposed to put up a page to get feedback 14:28:28 Is there a link? 14:28:35 ... on OGD and how they can be more transparent to the public 14:28:41 rachel: comment window opens Saturday and runs for 2 weeks 14:29:01 ... comment opens Saturday and runs for 2 weeks 14:29:32 sandro: pointers? 14:29:46 rachel: they'll be available from whitehouse.gov 14:29:51 rachel: will be on whitehouse.gov/open and see webcontent.gov 14:30:13 ... we'll also have a page to help agencies do their /open ones from webcontent.gov 14:30:22 sandro: more? 14:30:24 karen: not sure what you're looking for, but that url has the info about the event, and how to sign up 14:30:25 [none heard] 14:30:28 topic: Project Groups 14:30:49 sandro: last week we reviewed feedback, bunch of people interested 14:31:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2010Feb/0029 14:31:06 ... we asked people about potential times for telcons 14:31:17 ... poll closed yesterday 14:31:32 harry has joined #egov 14:31:44 ... group 4 was quite constraint, not much problems for the rest 14:32:25 ... we need to review results and see when to start scheduling calls 14:32:29 does today count for 3 days notice to this fri? 14:32:36 ... I need to book conference bridge, etc. 14:32:49 ... there's a 3-day advance notice for this 14:33:10 cory: group 2: I've a conflict for the same slot over the next couple weeks 14:33:32 ... in any case, I'd like to propose to combine 1&2 14:33:50 ... to bring the strategy and technical view together 14:34:03 ... would fit quite well for telcons in the near future 14:34:18 ... and I'd propose the group 1 slot for that 14:34:41 sandro: Thomas? 14:34:51 action: sandro reserve bridge Thursday10 for Group 1 14:34:51 Created ACTION-96 - Reserve bridge Thursday10 for Group 1 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-02-10]. 14:34:54 q+ 14:35:05 thomas: I'm also available on Thus?? 14:35:32 cory: so we could probably start on Feb 11 14:35:34 ack karen 14:35:37 ack ChrisBeer 14:35:43 With regards to 4 - core members seem happy with the timing 14:35:56 zakim, who is here? 14:35:56 On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett, John_Sheridan, Harry_Holt, edsu, Gryth (muted), Rachel 14:35:59 Martin has also, josema 14:36:00 On IRC I see harry, Rachel, MoZ, luigi, edsu, karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot 14:36:01 ChrisBeer: you just on irc? 14:36:29 subtopic: group 3 14:36:33 Have had feedback from non-respondants directly who indicate that that timeslot is fine. I'd envision that after initial telecon, we'd move into a more collab online workspace... 14:36:36 @ ed yes 14:36:54 ... collab online workspace and meet only as required. 14:36:57 george: thanks for the survey, apparently Fri at 9am works for enough folks 14:37:24 .... we might want to start this week?? 14:37:37 ... are we able to sue same tools? 14:37:40 s/??// 14:37:45 s/sue/use 14:38:00 sandro: yes, but I cannot guarantee to have it ready for this Fri 14:38:32 george: ok, thanks, I'll start a wiki page to organize stuff 14:38:46 ... I'll be away in India for 3 weeks, starting 8 Feb 14:39:00 Sandro: Is there a "page" for projects 1&2? 14:39:05 ... so first thing for this Fri would be to get a co-coordinator to get things moving on 14:39:08 not yet Cory, but you can make one. 14:39:14 http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects/GLD_Demo 14:39:16 s/sandro:/sandro, 14:39:42 sandro: anyone in the group can make project pages in the wiki 14:39:50 subtopic: project 4 14:40:24 subtopic: project 5 14:41:10 daniel: generally it's a great time but haven't checked with all the group if they can attend 14:41:24 ... Chris and I to work closely together 14:41:27 Also: Is there group mail lists? 14:41:42 +1 Daniel 14:41:44 s/Also:/Also, 14:41:48 +1 Cory 14:41:56 ... good question from Cory on IRC 14:41:59 subtopic: project 6 14:42:09 s/IRC/on subgroup lists 14:42:49 brian: very good time for me, haven't checked closely with people yet 14:43:03 With regard to My and Daniels projects - given thier nature, much of the work can take place via correspondance imo, so we can be fairly flexible on when and what time we have those meetings. 14:43:13 ... expect to develop best practices for social media in gov 14:43:37 ... I'd like to hold first meeting next week 14:43:46 ... Feb 12 at 3pm ET 14:44:25 sandro: mailing lists, we discussed about using tags at the beginning of the subject 14:44:33 OwenAmbur has joined #egov 14:44:33 ... or making lists for subgroups 14:44:56 ... I don't have a strong opinion, probably separate mailing lists is more flexible 14:45:44 would like to see discussion forum format or the wiki actively used. Using tags on main list is a good idea - encourages participation from others on an ad-hoc basis 14:46:06 +1 Chris 14:46:10 daniel: we can discuss among ourselves in the groups, use wiki discussion pages, ?? 14:46:12 folks can 'watch' wiki pages 14:46:22 +1 14:46:38 +??P25 14:46:43 sandro: I'm not sure 14:47:11 [some discussion about the various possibilities offered by the wiki] 14:47:44 you might be able to filter based on page category, if groups assign their pages to a category 14:47:46 rrsagent, pointer 14:47:46 See http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-egov-irc#T14-47-46 14:47:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:47:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/02/03-egov-minutes.html josema 14:47:58 +1 cory - create an entry page, make links on that to new pages, watch the entry page 14:48:10 Case in point - it works for 100,000's people editing collaboratively on wikipedia, I'm sure we can make ours work for our little efforts :) 14:48:20 sandro: anybody feels strongly about separate mailing lists? 14:48:34 cory: let's start with subject tags and figure out if they're needed 14:48:35 +1 cory - [3] = GLD_Demo 14:48:51 I do in that I don't like the idea - encourages non-transparency 14:48:58 ??: I second that 14:49:06 s/??/Brian/ 14:49:23 ... if things get too "spammy" we might want to start separate ones 14:49:25 +1 for 1 mailing list 14:49:35 consensus: one list for now. 14:49:36 sandro. I think I hear consensus on starting with tags 14:49:42 s/sandro./sandro: 14:50:12 sandro: for the tags... I guess that people from each group should come up with their own 14:50:26 sandro: anything else on the groups that we need right now? 14:50:32 why not using a forum instead of a mailing list ? 14:50:37 ... I'll go ahead and make telcon reservations asap 14:50:41 If we limit messages to the list to general discussion and RFCs on issues, we should be ok re "spammy". I'd encourage TF1-6 with the caveats someone suggested (FYI etc) 14:50:42 group 5 can use the URL of their main page as the tag for their email, etc 14:50:42 @sandro - thanks! will follow up :) 14:51:08 sandro: luigi, that's not what we have been using so far and haven't heard any push for that 14:51:11 discussion on wiki page = subject forum 14:51:16 topic: data.gov.uk 14:51:20 +1 luigi, but unfortunately infrastructure would lie outside of w3c namespace :( 14:52:02 ok, :( 14:52:04 There is a (US) data.gov meeting next thursday - is anyone going? 14:52:04 (ie: would require w3c to set up, test, tie into permissions structure etc) 14:52:20 john: we had a preview launch back in Nov 2009 14:52:26 ... to get feedback from the developer community 14:52:53 ... site was focused on being attractive to developers 14:53:05 john: data.gov.uk is for developers, not for end-users. 14:53:18 ... departments are able to make more end-user friendly but not the main focus 14:53:23 Interesting, we have no developer site for the US 14:53:25 + +1.410.975.aahh 14:53:31 ... most datasets were published by departaments themselves 14:53:51 ... office of statistical information put info about transport, crime statistics 14:53:54 w3 has joined #egov 14:54:09 ... there was a lot of policy activity focused on what should be done 14:54:29 ... goal 1 is transparency but also very important enabling economic benefits 14:54:37 We have one in Australi (developer site) - general feedback is good 14:54:39 ... of people building services and products on top 14:55:05 ... published a paper on smarter government on this with some focus on public information 14:55:08 zakim, who's noisy? 14:55:20 josema, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Sheridan (40%), Gryth (13%) 14:55:48 ... UK gov followed W3C recommendations, in particular SW + LD 14:56:19 ... discussion on which info should be made free, which one should have some sort of tax 14:56:40 ... best example is Ordnance Survey, which is used to charge for its data 14:56:56 -> http://www.hmg.gov.uk/frontlinefirst.aspx Smarter Government 14:56:56 ... this needed consideration on the policy level, too 14:57:13 Q: Is all data released under creative commons, or does Crown retain copyright? 14:57:30 ... and a big policy change to make it free 14:58:00 ... because it costs to make information public 14:58:19 ... another interesting discussion was around CC 14:58:40 ... if it was compatible or not with licenses in the UK 14:58:54 ... differences between 2.5 and 3.0 versions 14:59:11 ... an issue in EU is the concept of ?? right, non-existant in the US 14:59:26 zakim, who's noisy? 14:59:27 MoZ_ has joined #egov 14:59:36 josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Martin (28%), Karen (19%), John_Sheridan (34%), Gryth (8%) 14:59:46 zakim, mute me 14:59:46 sorry, josema, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:59:52 zakim, mute Martin 14:59:52 Martin should now be muted 15:00:30 ... on the technology side, having the departments producing the metadata themselves 15:00:47 ... was a great idea, we did not intend to build a big central database 15:01:20 ... how we can persist information of Web documents it's also of paramount importance for us 15:01:40 ... we do archive Web content, it's the responsibility of the agencies to do it properly 15:01:58 ... so if page not available, people will still be able to access it in the archive 15:02:05 .. .same consideration for datasets 15:02:11 s/.. ./... 15:02:33 ... our approach to preservation is a very important piece of our work 15:02:42 ... we use some RDFa, we will use more 15:02:51 ... for example we mark CC licensed content 15:03:07 ... we're adding it to descriptions of applications people are producing 15:03:25 ... few things we learned by suing LD over last couple months: 15:03:43 ... 1. needs of data producers much different from those of data consumers 15:04:00 ... puts obligation into producers at departments to do the right thing 15:04:15 ... on consumer side: many developers are much more comfortable using simpler APIs 15:04:44 ... it's been a paradox, we're doing a piece of work on how we can "constraint" ourselves 15:05:15 ... to build API features automatically onto data, so those can use it in an easier way for them 15:05:18 maybe URI persistence must be distinguidshed from documents persistence 15:05:25 ... significant work being put on this 15:06:18 q? 15:06:23 ... for example, publishing JSON vs SPARQL endpoint 15:06:35 ... first implementation should be available in few weeks 15:06:54 (very cool -- automatic JSON and XML APIs from Linked Data) 15:07:21 ... in terms of some of the problems, we faced a few 15:07:35 ... for example, if you have a URI for a school and data from a school 15:07:50 ... those are changed at different places and at a different point in time 15:07:54 s/are/may 15:08:01 s/may/may be 15:08:32 ... so if I want to get data about the school today, might be not the same I had a few months ago 15:08:42 ... but the old one might not be available anywhere 15:08:57 ... we're trying a few models and patterns to cope with this 15:09:00 (yeah, that's a challenge .... looking at how the data was at time T.... (slightly different from how the world was at time T)) 15:09:30 ... another big issue is provenance, what processes it has gone through 15:09:39 ... who produced this data in the first place 15:10:02 ... we are focusing hard on location information, trying to align LD work 15:10:13 ... with implementation of the EU INSPIRE directive 15:10:35 ... every object in EU should have a unique identifier (a boundary, for example) 15:10:44 ... we need to reconcile how this is done with a LD approach 15:11:10 ... second area: statistic, XTNS?? standard heavily used 15:11:33 ... we hosted a 2-day workshop to learn how to reconcile both approaches 15:11:47 q? 15:12:20 Paper on change and provenance that may be useful: http://www.modeldriven.org/projects/EKB/Management%20of%20Change%20and%20Provenance%20in%20a%20RDF%20Repository.pdf 15:12:42 ... significant work also went on culture, significant concern from producers 15:12:55 (yes - big fear - that this technology allows people to quickly and easily misunderstand the data :-) 15:13:16 ... big concern about loosing context and how people could interpret the data 15:13:38 ... although we have a clear mandate, we talked and talked with people 15:13:43 q? 15:13:48 q+ 15:13:58 ... gave them tons of examples, TimBL invested significant time on this 15:14:16 ... huge amount of activity on: policy, technology and cultural change 15:14:25 correction to comments about about /opengov comment period - it is open for six weeks (not 2) 15:14:31 ... tech going very fast, fantastic people working on it 15:14:51 BIG THANKS TO JS!!! GREAT STUFF!!!!! 15:15:06 sandro: thanks, john, couple question 15:15:13 ... how many people working on this? 15:15:44 john: core team of 10-15 people, but it spans out, we are kickstarting in several parts of gov 15:16:22 ... statistics workshop alone had 37 people in attendance 15:17:23