IRC log of egov on 2010-02-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:14:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #egov
13:14:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:14:17 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make log public
13:14:22 [sandro]
zakim, this will be egov
13:14:22 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 46 minutes
13:26:37 [ChrisBeer]
Sandro - do we have an agenda for this meeting at all?
13:26:55 [sandro]
I'm about to send out. Kevin was supposed to chair but cancelled. :-(
13:27:18 [ChrisBeer]
kk - I'm here, just in another program. back in 30 for meeting
13:46:43 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: 3 Feb IG call: AGENDA
13:53:59 [Cory]
Cory has joined #egov
13:56:22 [bandholtz]
bandholtz has joined #egov
13:59:01 [george]
george has joined #egov
13:59:04 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
13:59:11 [Zakim]
13:59:14 [sandro]
scribe: jose
13:59:29 [josema]
josema has joined #egov
13:59:40 [Zakim]
13:59:49 [martin_spain]
martin_spain has joined #egov
14:00:01 [Zakim]
+ +49.178.404.aaaa
14:00:12 [Zakim]
14:00:27 [sandro]
zakim, aaaa is bandholtz
14:00:27 [Zakim]
+bandholtz; got it
14:00:43 [Zakim]
14:00:54 [josema]
zakim, Martin has also me
14:00:54 [Zakim]
+also, josema; got it
14:01:20 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin
14:01:22 [Zakim]
Martin has also, josema
14:01:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:01:25 [Zakim]
14:01:26 [Daniel_Bennett]
Daniel_Bennett has joined #egov
14:01:52 [karen]
karen has joined #egov
14:01:54 [sandro]
zakim, martin has josema
14:01:54 [Zakim]
josema was already listed in Martin, sandro
14:01:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.441.aabb
14:02:11 [Zakim]
14:02:20 [sandro]
zakim, aabb is George_Thomas
14:02:20 [Zakim]
+George_Thomas; got it
14:02:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.825.aacc
14:03:32 [Zakim]
- +1.301.825.aacc
14:03:47 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
14:03:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett
14:03:50 [Zakim]
Martin has also, josema
14:03:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:03:54 [josema]
scribe: josema
14:03:54 [Zakim]
+ +0208392aadd
14:03:55 [Zakim]
+ +1.804.928.aaee
14:04:04 [edsu]
edsu has joined #egov
14:04:17 [sandro]
zakim, aaee is Harry_Holt
14:04:17 [Zakim]
+Harry_Holt; got it
14:04:36 [sandro]
zakim, aadd is John_Sheridan
14:04:36 [Zakim]
+John_Sheridan; got it
14:04:41 [Zakim]
14:04:44 [edsu]
zakim, LC is edsu
14:04:44 [Zakim]
+edsu; got it
14:04:48 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
14:04:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett, John_Sheridan, Harry_Holt, edsu
14:04:50 [Zakim]
Martin has also, josema
14:04:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see edsu, karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:04:52 [josema]
rrsagent, start telcon
14:04:52 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'start telcon', josema. Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:05:19 [Daniel_Bennett]
probably snow day here in washington dc area
14:05:21 [josema]
sandro: chairing this one myself since Kevin couldn't finally make it
14:05:31 [sandro]
14:05:40 [josema]
14:05:51 [sandro]
topic: administration
14:05:56 [josema]
... main point is to hear john about
14:06:02 [sandro]
14:06:18 [josema]
sandro: any comments about the minutes?
14:06:24 [josema]
[none heard]
14:06:30 [sandro]
14:06:40 [josema]
... next meeting in two weeks
14:06:52 [josema]
... need a scribe volunteer, please?
14:06:54 [sandro]
scribe volunteer?
14:06:58 [luigi]
luigi has joined #egov
14:07:01 [george]
regrets for next meeting - out of the country
14:07:11 [karen]
+1 Ed
14:07:13 [sandro]
next scribe: EdSu
14:07:25 [josema]
[Ed volunteers to scribe on 17 Feb]
14:07:26 [karen]
14:07:33 [josema]
sandro: any comments about agenda today?
14:07:44 [luigi]
hi all
14:07:49 [josema]
karen: any updates around Comm, outreach and conferences?
14:07:51 [sandro]
topic: Action Item Review
14:08:06 [josema]
sandro: sure, when talking about news, etc.
14:08:12 [ChrisBeer]
14:08:37 [sandro]
14:08:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-14 -- John Sheridan to share how he justified the business decision of becoming W3C Members -- due 2008-10-30 -- OPEN
14:08:37 [trackbot]
14:08:48 [josema]
sandro: john on sharing business case to become W3C Members
14:08:54 [josema]
john: yeah, still on me
14:09:00 [josema]
sandro: want a deadline?
14:09:10 [Zakim]
+ +1.303.748.aaff
14:09:15 [Zakim]
- +1.303.748.aaff
14:09:33 [josema]
john: not a bad idea, let's say that in 2 weeks time (17 Feb)
14:09:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.303.748.aagg
14:09:38 [josema]
sandro: ok
14:09:47 [sandro]
14:09:47 [trackbot]
ACTION-76 -- José Manuel Alonso to address funding issue -- due 2009-12-31 -- OPEN
14:09:47 [trackbot]
14:10:27 [MoZ]
MoZ has joined #egov
14:11:03 [sandro]
zakim, aagg is Gryth
14:11:03 [Zakim]
+Gryth; got it
14:11:11 [josema]
josema: not working on it anymore, should be better on the Coord Team
14:11:13 [sandro]
14:11:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-89 -- José Manuel Alonso to explore the feasibility of various European venues and conference collaborations and propose specific dates -- due 2009-09-16 -- OPEN
14:11:13 [trackbot]
14:11:23 [josema]
... it's about finding a way forward in terms of funding
14:12:18 [sandro]
josema: I tried to schedule a F2F in Brussels in December, but it was complicated by other events, so that was postponed. I wanted to do something TimBL could attend.
14:12:59 [karen]
14:13:07 [karen]
+1 around key events
14:13:49 [sandro]
close action-89
14:13:49 [trackbot]
ACTION-89 explore the feasibility of various European venues and conference collaborations and propose specific dates closed
14:14:10 [josema]
josema: maybe better to schedule around events in DC in March, I don't see how to make this happen in EU in the short term
14:14:38 [sandro]
14:14:45 [sandro]
topic: General Announcements, News
14:14:54 [josema]
sandro: will try to do by next week??
14:15:26 [sandro]
- RDFa Working Group begins
14:15:30 [Daniel_Bennett]
14:15:36 [josema]
sandro: a new group has been launched on RDFa, embedding RDF in HTML pages
14:16:03 [sandro]
ack Daniel_bennett
14:16:05 [Zakim]
14:16:26 [ChrisBeer]
Awesome news :)
14:16:40 [josema]
daniel: opengov directive (un)conferences taking place in DC, next one on Feb 17
14:17:01 [josema]
... last time had folks from OMB and other agencies that need to implement the OGD by April
14:17:09 [sandro]
- US Gov't Budget announced ($81bn for IT?)
14:17:38 [josema]
sandro: heard from kevin, need to find more detail about allocation
14:17:58 [sandro]
cory: that'll be hard
14:18:09 [sandro]
- Gov 2.0 Expo (proposal(s) accepted)
14:18:09 [josema]
cory: very hard, but there may be a way, I guess
14:19:11 [josema]
karen: IG submitted two proposals: panel on tradeoff and various types of techs (still under consideration)
14:19:30 [josema]
... second for workshop on how to put open data on the Web (accepted)
14:19:37 [josema]
... sandro and john to co-chair
14:19:59 [josema]
... another proposal from W3C on Accesibility (accepted, too) will see Judy Brewer
14:20:10 [josema]
... talking about that and its relation with mobile, etc.
14:20:18 [josema]
... we're very happy, very good visibility for us
14:20:29 [ChrisBeer]
+1 Jose
14:20:35 [josema]
... also submitted to O'Reilly, no news yet
14:20:45 [Cory]
14:20:50 [josema]
sandro: quick poll: who expects to attend?
14:20:53 [sandro]
poll: attending gov 2 ?
14:20:54 [Daniel_Bennett]
14:20:54 [josema]
14:20:55 [sandro]
14:20:58 [george]
+1 - $$? tho
14:20:59 [bandholtz]
14:21:00 [karen]
14:21:02 [karen]
14:21:04 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #egov
14:21:11 [sandro]
brian: -1 (probably)
14:21:27 [sandro]
- FOSE (proposal(s) accepted)
14:21:40 [sandro]
poll: attending fose
14:21:45 [cgi-irc]
Rachel +1
14:21:45 [josema]
sandro: more proposals accepted, one for FOSE
14:21:46 [Cory]
14:21:47 [sandro]
sandro: don't know
14:21:48 [josema]
14:21:52 [bandholtz]
14:21:54 [karen]
-1 (same time as W3C AC meeting)
14:21:55 [george]
14:22:05 [edsu]
-1 # will be in dc though
14:22:20 [ChrisBeer]
-1 :(
14:22:28 [josema]
sandro: anything else about FOSE proposal?
14:22:43 [josema]
karen: panel, kevin to chair, more focused on LOD
14:22:51 [josema]
... daniel also participating
14:23:10 [cgi-irc]
FOSE panel is Kevin, John, Daniel & Rachel
14:23:14 [josema]
karen: more announcements
14:23:32 [sandro]
subtopic: W3C AC members: AC meeting March 21-23
14:23:33 [josema]
... for W3C AC Reps, registration is open (21-23 march at MIT)
14:23:46 [josema]
... WWW2010, April, Raleigh, LOD camp there
14:24:07 [josema]
... Web Science trust probably will co-locate and discuss eGov topics
14:24:10 [karen]
14:24:17 [josema]
... opportunity to co-locate a eGov IG F2F, too
14:24:40 [josema]
... RDF workshop announced, Ivan Herman is eager to see papers on vertical application areas
14:24:54 [josema]
... such as eGov, I want to encourage to submit
14:25:19 [josema]
sandro: I wrote a blog post about the topic a couple months ago
14:25:20 [edsu]
first REST conference is happening at www2010 too
14:25:32 [josema]
sandro: any other announcements?
14:25:51 [josema]
john: tomorrow I've been invited by Danish government to speak about
14:26:00 [Daniel_Bennett]
nice John. have fun
14:26:04 [karen]
+1 John Sheridan in Copenhagen
14:26:10 [josema]
... I'll be in Copenhagen, Danish Minister to open
14:26:10 [Daniel_Bennett]
14:26:24 [josema]
... 24 Feb, meetup in London
14:26:49 [josema]
... Setefano ?? project officer at EU looking at SW and use and adoption by Govs
14:27:03 [josema]
... he's trying to organize a workshop in Sept
14:27:57 [edsu]
14:28:13 [josema]
rachel: reminder to everyone in the US that agencies are supposed to put up a page to get feedback
14:28:28 [karen]
Is there a link?
14:28:35 [josema]
... on OGD and how they can be more transparent to the public
14:28:41 [sandro]
rachel: comment window opens Saturday and runs for 2 weeks
14:29:01 [josema]
... comment opens Saturday and runs for 2 weeks
14:29:32 [josema]
sandro: pointers?
14:29:46 [josema]
rachel: they'll be available from
14:29:51 [sandro]
rachel: will be on and see
14:30:13 [josema]
... we'll also have a page to help agencies do their /open ones from
14:30:22 [josema]
sandro: more?
14:30:24 [edsu]
karen: not sure what you're looking for, but that url has the info about the event, and how to sign up
14:30:25 [josema]
[none heard]
14:30:28 [sandro]
topic: Project Groups
14:30:49 [josema]
sandro: last week we reviewed feedback, bunch of people interested
14:31:04 [sandro]
14:31:06 [josema]
... we asked people about potential times for telcons
14:31:17 [josema]
... poll closed yesterday
14:31:32 [harry]
harry has joined #egov
14:31:44 [josema]
... group 4 was quite constraint, not much problems for the rest
14:32:25 [josema]
... we need to review results and see when to start scheduling calls
14:32:29 [george]
does today count for 3 days notice to this fri?
14:32:36 [josema]
... I need to book conference bridge, etc.
14:32:49 [josema]
... there's a 3-day advance notice for this
14:33:10 [josema]
cory: group 2: I've a conflict for the same slot over the next couple weeks
14:33:32 [josema]
... in any case, I'd like to propose to combine 1&2
14:33:50 [josema]
... to bring the strategy and technical view together
14:34:03 [josema]
... would fit quite well for telcons in the near future
14:34:18 [josema]
... and I'd propose the group 1 slot for that
14:34:41 [josema]
sandro: Thomas?
14:34:51 [sandro]
action: sandro reserve bridge Thursday10 for Group 1
14:34:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-96 - Reserve bridge Thursday10 for Group 1 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-02-10].
14:34:54 [ChrisBeer]
14:35:05 [josema]
thomas: I'm also available on Thus??
14:35:32 [josema]
cory: so we could probably start on Feb 11
14:35:34 [sandro]
ack karen
14:35:37 [sandro]
ack ChrisBeer
14:35:43 [ChrisBeer]
With regards to 4 - core members seem happy with the timing
14:35:56 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
14:35:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, Cory, bandholtz, Brand, Martin, Karen, George_Thomas, Daniel_Bennett, John_Sheridan, Harry_Holt, edsu, Gryth (muted), Rachel
14:35:59 [Zakim]
Martin has also, josema
14:36:00 [Zakim]
On IRC I see harry, Rachel, MoZ, luigi, edsu, karen, Daniel_Bennett, martin_spain, josema, george, bandholtz, Cory, RRSAgent, Zakim, ChrisBeer, sandro, hughb, trackbot
14:36:01 [edsu]
ChrisBeer: you just on irc?
14:36:29 [sandro]
subtopic: group 3
14:36:33 [ChrisBeer]
Have had feedback from non-respondants directly who indicate that that timeslot is fine. I'd envision that after initial telecon, we'd move into a more collab online workspace...
14:36:36 [ChrisBeer]
@ ed yes
14:36:54 [ChrisBeer]
... collab online workspace and meet only as required.
14:36:57 [josema]
george: thanks for the survey, apparently Fri at 9am works for enough folks
14:37:24 [josema]
.... we might want to start this week??
14:37:37 [josema]
... are we able to sue same tools?
14:37:40 [josema]
14:37:45 [josema]
14:38:00 [josema]
sandro: yes, but I cannot guarantee to have it ready for this Fri
14:38:32 [josema]
george: ok, thanks, I'll start a wiki page to organize stuff
14:38:46 [josema]
... I'll be away in India for 3 weeks, starting 8 Feb
14:39:00 [Cory]
Sandro: Is there a "page" for projects 1&2?
14:39:05 [josema]
... so first thing for this Fri would be to get a co-coordinator to get things moving on
14:39:08 [sandro]
not yet Cory, but you can make one.
14:39:14 [george]
14:39:16 [josema]
14:39:42 [josema]
sandro: anyone in the group can make project pages in the wiki
14:39:50 [sandro]
subtopic: project 4
14:40:24 [sandro]
subtopic: project 5
14:41:10 [josema]
daniel: generally it's a great time but haven't checked with all the group if they can attend
14:41:24 [josema]
... Chris and I to work closely together
14:41:27 [Cory]
Also: Is there group mail lists?
14:41:42 [ChrisBeer]
+1 Daniel
14:41:44 [josema]
14:41:48 [ChrisBeer]
+1 Cory
14:41:56 [josema]
... good question from Cory on IRC
14:41:59 [sandro]
subtopic: project 6
14:42:09 [josema]
s/IRC/on subgroup lists
14:42:49 [josema]
brian: very good time for me, haven't checked closely with people yet
14:43:03 [ChrisBeer]
With regard to My and Daniels projects - given thier nature, much of the work can take place via correspondance imo, so we can be fairly flexible on when and what time we have those meetings.
14:43:13 [josema]
... expect to develop best practices for social media in gov
14:43:37 [josema]
... I'd like to hold first meeting next week
14:43:46 [josema]
... Feb 12 at 3pm ET
14:44:25 [josema]
sandro: mailing lists, we discussed about using tags at the beginning of the subject
14:44:33 [OwenAmbur]
OwenAmbur has joined #egov
14:44:33 [josema]
... or making lists for subgroups
14:44:56 [josema]
... I don't have a strong opinion, probably separate mailing lists is more flexible
14:45:44 [ChrisBeer]
would like to see discussion forum format or the wiki actively used. Using tags on main list is a good idea - encourages participation from others on an ad-hoc basis
14:46:06 [george]
+1 Chris
14:46:10 [josema]
daniel: we can discuss among ourselves in the groups, use wiki discussion pages, ??
14:46:12 [george]
folks can 'watch' wiki pages
14:46:22 [ChrisBeer]
14:46:38 [Zakim]
14:46:43 [josema]
sandro: I'm not sure
14:47:11 [josema]
[some discussion about the various possibilities offered by the wiki]
14:47:44 [edsu]
you might be able to filter based on page category, if groups assign their pages to a category
14:47:46 [josema]
rrsagent, pointer
14:47:46 [RRSAgent]
14:47:57 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
14:47:58 [george]
+1 cory - create an entry page, make links on that to new pages, watch the entry page
14:48:10 [ChrisBeer]
Case in point - it works for 100,000's people editing collaboratively on wikipedia, I'm sure we can make ours work for our little efforts :)
14:48:20 [josema]
sandro: anybody feels strongly about separate mailing lists?
14:48:34 [josema]
cory: let's start with subject tags and figure out if they're needed
14:48:35 [george]
+1 cory - [3] = GLD_Demo
14:48:51 [ChrisBeer]
I do in that I don't like the idea - encourages non-transparency
14:48:58 [josema]
??: I second that
14:49:06 [sandro]
14:49:23 [josema]
... if things get too "spammy" we might want to start separate ones
14:49:25 [edsu]
+1 for 1 mailing list
14:49:35 [sandro]
consensus: one list for now.
14:49:36 [josema]
sandro. I think I hear consensus on starting with tags
14:49:42 [josema]
14:50:12 [josema]
sandro: for the tags... I guess that people from each group should come up with their own
14:50:26 [josema]
sandro: anything else on the groups that we need right now?
14:50:32 [luigi]
why not using a forum instead of a mailing list ?
14:50:37 [josema]
... I'll go ahead and make telcon reservations asap
14:50:41 [ChrisBeer]
If we limit messages to the list to general discussion and RFCs on issues, we should be ok re "spammy". I'd encourage TF1-6 with the caveats someone suggested (FYI etc)
14:50:42 [Daniel_Bennett]
group 5 can use the URL of their main page as the tag for their email, etc
14:50:42 [george]
@sandro - thanks! will follow up :)
14:51:08 [josema]
sandro: luigi, that's not what we have been using so far and haven't heard any push for that
14:51:11 [george]
discussion on wiki page = subject forum
14:51:16 [sandro]
14:51:20 [ChrisBeer]
+1 luigi, but unfortunately infrastructure would lie outside of w3c namespace :(
14:52:02 [luigi]
ok, :(
14:52:04 [Cory]
There is a (US) meeting next thursday - is anyone going?
14:52:04 [ChrisBeer]
(ie: would require w3c to set up, test, tie into permissions structure etc)
14:52:20 [josema]
john: we had a preview launch back in Nov 2009
14:52:26 [josema]
... to get feedback from the developer community
14:52:53 [josema]
... site was focused on being attractive to developers
14:53:05 [sandro]
john: is for developers, not for end-users.
14:53:18 [josema]
... departments are able to make more end-user friendly but not the main focus
14:53:23 [Cory]
Interesting, we have no developer site for the US
14:53:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.410.975.aahh
14:53:31 [josema]
... most datasets were published by departaments themselves
14:53:51 [josema]
... office of statistical information put info about transport, crime statistics
14:53:54 [w3]
w3 has joined #egov
14:54:09 [josema]
... there was a lot of policy activity focused on what should be done
14:54:29 [josema]
... goal 1 is transparency but also very important enabling economic benefits
14:54:37 [ChrisBeer]
We have one in Australi (developer site) - general feedback is good
14:54:39 [josema]
... of people building services and products on top
14:55:05 [josema]
... published a paper on smarter government on this with some focus on public information
14:55:08 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
14:55:20 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Sheridan (40%), Gryth (13%)
14:55:48 [josema]
... UK gov followed W3C recommendations, in particular SW + LD
14:56:19 [josema]
... discussion on which info should be made free, which one should have some sort of tax
14:56:40 [josema]
... best example is Ordnance Survey, which is used to charge for its data
14:56:56 [edsu]
-> Smarter Government
14:56:56 [josema]
... this needed consideration on the policy level, too
14:57:13 [ChrisBeer]
Q: Is all data released under creative commons, or does Crown retain copyright?
14:57:30 [josema]
... and a big policy change to make it free
14:58:00 [josema]
... because it costs to make information public
14:58:19 [josema]
... another interesting discussion was around CC
14:58:40 [josema]
... if it was compatible or not with licenses in the UK
14:58:54 [josema]
... differences between 2.5 and 3.0 versions
14:59:11 [josema]
... an issue in EU is the concept of ?? right, non-existant in the US
14:59:26 [josema]
zakim, who's noisy?
14:59:27 [MoZ_]
MoZ_ has joined #egov
14:59:36 [Zakim]
josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Martin (28%), Karen (19%), John_Sheridan (34%), Gryth (8%)
14:59:46 [josema]
zakim, mute me
14:59:46 [Zakim]
sorry, josema, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:59:52 [josema]
zakim, mute Martin
14:59:52 [Zakim]
Martin should now be muted
15:00:30 [josema]
... on the technology side, having the departments producing the metadata themselves
15:00:47 [josema]
... was a great idea, we did not intend to build a big central database
15:01:20 [josema]
... how we can persist information of Web documents it's also of paramount importance for us
15:01:40 [josema]
... we do archive Web content, it's the responsibility of the agencies to do it properly
15:01:58 [josema]
... so if page not available, people will still be able to access it in the archive
15:02:05 [josema]
.. .same consideration for datasets
15:02:11 [josema]
s/.. ./...
15:02:33 [josema]
... our approach to preservation is a very important piece of our work
15:02:42 [josema]
... we use some RDFa, we will use more
15:02:51 [josema]
... for example we mark CC licensed content
15:03:07 [josema]
... we're adding it to descriptions of applications people are producing
15:03:25 [josema]
... few things we learned by suing LD over last couple months:
15:03:43 [josema]
... 1. needs of data producers much different from those of data consumers
15:04:00 [josema]
... puts obligation into producers at departments to do the right thing
15:04:15 [josema]
... on consumer side: many developers are much more comfortable using simpler APIs
15:04:44 [josema]
... it's been a paradox, we're doing a piece of work on how we can "constraint" ourselves
15:05:15 [josema]
... to build API features automatically onto data, so those can use it in an easier way for them
15:05:18 [luigi]
maybe URI persistence must be distinguidshed from documents persistence
15:05:25 [josema]
... significant work being put on this
15:06:18 [sandro]
15:06:23 [josema]
... for example, publishing JSON vs SPARQL endpoint
15:06:35 [josema]
... first implementation should be available in few weeks
15:06:54 [sandro]
(very cool -- automatic JSON and XML APIs from Linked Data)
15:07:21 [josema]
... in terms of some of the problems, we faced a few
15:07:35 [josema]
... for example, if you have a URI for a school and data from a school
15:07:50 [josema]
... those are changed at different places and at a different point in time
15:07:54 [josema]
15:08:01 [josema]
s/may/may be
15:08:32 [josema]
... so if I want to get data about the school today, might be not the same I had a few months ago
15:08:42 [josema]
... but the old one might not be available anywhere
15:08:57 [josema]
... we're trying a few models and patterns to cope with this
15:09:00 [sandro]
(yeah, that's a challenge .... looking at how the data was at time T.... (slightly different from how the world was at time T))
15:09:30 [josema]
... another big issue is provenance, what processes it has gone through
15:09:39 [josema]
... who produced this data in the first place
15:10:02 [josema]
... we are focusing hard on location information, trying to align LD work
15:10:13 [josema]
... with implementation of the EU INSPIRE directive
15:10:35 [josema]
... every object in EU should have a unique identifier (a boundary, for example)
15:10:44 [josema]
... we need to reconcile how this is done with a LD approach
15:11:10 [josema]
... second area: statistic, XTNS?? standard heavily used
15:11:33 [josema]
... we hosted a 2-day workshop to learn how to reconcile both approaches
15:11:47 [josema]
15:12:20 [Cory]
Paper on change and provenance that may be useful:
15:12:42 [josema]
... significant work also went on culture, significant concern from producers
15:12:55 [sandro]
(yes - big fear - that this technology allows people to quickly and easily misunderstand the data :-)
15:13:16 [josema]
... big concern about loosing context and how people could interpret the data
15:13:38 [josema]
... although we have a clear mandate, we talked and talked with people
15:13:43 [sandro]
15:13:48 [george]
15:13:58 [josema]
... gave them tons of examples, TimBL invested significant time on this
15:14:16 [josema]
... huge amount of activity on: policy, technology and cultural change
15:14:25 [Rachel]
correction to comments about about /opengov comment period - it is open for six weeks (not 2)
15:14:31 [josema]
... tech going very fast, fantastic people working on it
15:14:51 [george]
15:15:06 [josema]
sandro: thanks, john, couple question
15:15:13 [josema]
... how many people working on this?
15:15:44 [josema]
john: core team of 10-15 people, but it spans out, we are kickstarting in several parts of gov
15:16:22 [josema]
... statistics workshop alone had 37 people in attendance
15:17:23 [josema]
... 30-40 officials from various departments also quickly involved when we needed to solve policy issues
15:17:31 [josema]
sandro: how much of the published data is linked data?
15:17:40 [josema]
john: not much, but getting there
15:17:41 [sandro]
15:18:01 [josema]
... we did a piece of work on building URIs for UK public sector
15:18:16 [josema]
... not LD per se but putting the pillars
15:18:32 [josema]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:18:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
15:18:55 [josema]
... we have been identifying these pillars over the last couple months
15:19:36 [sandro]
(good question: when iso establishes IDs for something, who should make a URI for them?)
15:19:53 [sandro]
ack george
15:20:18 [josema]
george: I very much appreciate the work you guys are doing across technical and cultural boundaries
15:20:37 [josema]
... what's the role played by CKAN and Talis??
15:20:56 [josema]
john: in order to have single point of access, we wanted to build OSS tools
15:21:03 [josema]
... we use Drupal and CKAN
15:21:18 [josema]
... CKAN is a packaging system for code and data
15:21:28 [josema]
... it provides a metadata registry service
15:21:39 [josema]
... Talis provides hosting for LD
15:22:00 [josema]
... but we want to publish on a distributed way
15:22:15 [josema]
... they should be able to use other methods in the future, maybe Talis, maybe their own
15:22:36 [sandro]
15:23:00 [josema]
... from a government procurement perspective this is good, you need better competition
15:23:08 [josema]
... more to choose from, creates a marketplace
15:23:16 [edsu]
15:23:39 [josema]
.. Talis been fantastic in terms of support and expertise, lot of capability, very helpful
15:23:49 [sandro]
15:23:53 [sandro]
ack edsu
15:24:32 [josema]
ed: second what George said, very important work
15:25:36 [josema]
... do you think of LD as also encompassing the use of RDFa in pages (not datasets)?
15:26:04 [josema]
john: absolutely
15:26:07 [edsu]
josema: no worries i stumbled through that question :-)
15:26:11 [Daniel_Bennett]
+1 John -- exciting work John
15:26:44 [Daniel_Bennett]
good luck in Copenhagen.
15:28:00 [josema]
... example: if on owns the URI for the county of Norfolk
15:28:07 [josema]
15:28:33 [sandro]
(great stuff, having a separate same-as service to say "we *think* the wikipedia County of Norfolk is the same as our *official* County of Norfolk.")
15:28:35 [sandro]
15:28:40 [josema]
... one (gov) is reluctant to say that URI is the same as the one from the wikipedia
15:28:42 [Cory]
Technical point: sameAs as an overly strong assertion - need Equivelent class
15:28:58 [josema]
... referring to that country because *one* is the official authoritative resource
15:29:05 [josema]
john: we are learning heaps and heaps
15:29:14 [josema]
... you need to try this stuff out and experiment
15:29:17 [karen]
15:29:47 [Cory]
Cont... Need equivelent for "instances"
15:29:52 [josema]
... also massive is that we are not making happy many of the pragmatic people in search of data
15:30:01 [sandro]
(yes, just providing linked data is not enough for developers -- some need JSON)
15:30:02 [josema]
... hence our API/JSON/XML approach
15:30:22 [sandro]
ack karen
15:30:22 [josema]
... potentially a huge win for LD standards
15:30:34 [josema]
karen: thanks, john, helps me get more context, too
15:30:36 [george]
isn't JSON serialization a part of 'RDF Futures'?
15:31:02 [josema]
... US and UK initiatives, josema in Spain, you going to Denmark
15:31:27 [josema]
... big question: how we can/shoud connect this IG, internationally effort better with those?
15:31:33 [karen]
+1 JohnSheridan "World Tour" :)
15:31:37 [josema]
... probably better for next time
15:31:40 [george]
thanks all
15:31:41 [Zakim]
- +1.410.975.aahh
15:31:44 [Zakim]
15:31:45 [josema]
sandro: time is over
15:31:46 [Zakim]
15:31:47 [Zakim]
15:31:48 [Zakim]
15:31:49 [josema]
.. we're adjourned
15:31:50 [Zakim]
15:31:51 [Zakim]
15:31:55 [Zakim]
15:31:56 [Zakim]
15:31:56 [Zakim]
15:31:57 [josema]
... next meeting on Feb 17
15:31:57 [Zakim]
15:32:03 [Zakim]
15:32:03 [josema]
15:32:08 [josema]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate josema
15:32:14 [edsu]
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15:32:15 [Zakim]
15:32:17 [Zakim]
15:32:22 [Zakim]
15:32:23 [Zakim]
T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
15:32:24 [Zakim]
Attendees were Sandro, Cory, +49.178.404.aaaa, Brand, bandholtz, also, josema, Karen, +1.202.441.aabb, Daniel_Bennett, George_Thomas, +1.301.825.aacc, +0208392aadd,
15:32:26 [Zakim]
... +1.804.928.aaee, Harry_Holt, John_Sheridan, edsu, +1.303.748.aaff, +1.303.748.aagg, Gryth, Rachel, +1.410.975.aahh
15:58:30 [karen]
karen has left #egov
17:47:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #egov