IRC log of ua on 2010-01-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:46:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:46:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc
17:46:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:46:16 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
17:46:18 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:46:18 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
17:46:19 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:46:19 [trackbot]
Date: 28 January 2010
17:50:08 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:50:21 [sharper]
trackbot, start meeting
17:50:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:50:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:50:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
17:50:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:50:26 [trackbot]
Date: 28 January 2010
17:50:36 [sharper]
chair: Ford_Kelly, Allan_James
17:50:56 [sharper]
Meeting: User Agent Teleconference for 28 January 2010
17:50:56 [sharper]
Date: Thursday, 28 January 2010
17:51:13 [sharper]
scribe: Harper_Simon
17:51:13 [sharper]
ScribeNick: sharper
17:51:13 [sharper]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0032.html
17:51:30 [sharper]
agenda+ Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?
17:51:58 [sharper]
agenda+ Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open
17:51:58 [sharper]
agenda+ review comments on working draft http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Sep/0000.html / http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Aug/att-0000/00-part
17:51:58 [sharper]
agenda+ Editor's draft and publication prep – What changes have we made? What areas do we want feedback on? Group comes up with details and Jeanne will write.
17:51:58 [sharper]
agenda+ Discuss the remaining proposals from survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/
17:51:59 [sharper]
agenda+ F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/
17:52:16 [sharper]
zakim, save agenda
17:52:22 [Zakim]
ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-agenda.rdf
17:52:35 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 1
17:52:35 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?" taken up [from sharper]
17:52:45 [sharper]
Mailing List: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/
17:52:45 [sharper]
Open Action Items: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open
17:52:45 [sharper]
Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open
17:52:46 [sharper]
Current Editors Draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100105/
17:52:46 [sharper]
Current Techniques Document: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2009/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20091106/
17:52:55 [sharper]
present+ Ford_Kelly
17:52:56 [sharper]
present+ Allan_James
17:52:56 [sharper]
present+ Harper_Simon
17:53:03 [sharper]
regrets+ Hakkinen_Mark
17:53:03 [sharper]
regrets+ Richards_Jan
17:53:13 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:53:14 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:53:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-minutes.html sharper
17:53:52 [sharper]
zakim, code?
17:53:52 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), sharper
17:57:28 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
17:57:49 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:57:56 [Zakim]
+allanj
17:58:20 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:58:42 [AllanJ]
zakim, Microsoft is really kford
17:58:42 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:59:13 [sharper]
present+ Lowney_Greg
18:00:01 [Zakim]
+??P5
18:00:46 [sharper]
zakim, ??P5 is sharper
18:00:46 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
18:01:06 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
18:01:27 [sharper]
present+ Spellman_Jeanne
18:01:38 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:01:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-minutes.html sharper
18:01:49 [jeanne]
zakim,code?
18:01:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jeanne
18:01:56 [Zakim]
+Greg
18:02:07 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
18:03:19 [sharper]
regrets+ Patch_Kim
18:03:39 [sharper]
regrets+ Swan_Henny
18:04:33 [Zakim]
+Bim
18:04:43 [sharper]
regrets+ Lauke_Patrick
18:06:06 [sharper]
present+ Egan_Bim
18:06:10 [AllanJ]
zakim, agenda?
18:06:11 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
18:06:12 [Zakim]
1. Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)? [from sharper]
18:06:14 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
18:06:16 [Zakim]
3. review comments on working draft http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Sep/0000.html /
18:06:20 [Zakim]
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Aug/att-0000/00-part [from sharper]
18:06:23 [Zakim]
4. Editor's draft and publication prep – What changes have we made? What areas do we want feedback on? Group comes up with details and Jeanne will write. [from sharper]
18:06:27 [Zakim]
5. Discuss the remaining proposals from survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/ [from sharper]
18:06:30 [Zakim]
6. F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/ [from sharper]
18:06:32 [sharper]
member:rrsagent, draft minutes
18:06:53 [sharper]
zakim, close item 1
18:06:53 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Logistics (Regrets, agenda requests, comments)?, closed
18:06:54 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:06:55 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
18:07:00 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 3
18:07:00 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "review comments on working draft http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Sep/0000.html /
18:07:02 [Zakim]
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Aug/att-0000/00-part" taken up [from sharper]
18:08:56 [sharper]
all: General Discussion
18:08:58 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
18:09:20 [sharper]
JA: Generally an AT thing
18:10:15 [sharper]
BE: Doesn't recognise if just Dublin Core
18:11:26 [sharper]
GL: Does UAAG 2.0 draft have other self voicing aspects - if so then this would be OK
18:11:31 [sharper]
GL: not sure if we should
18:11:51 [sharper]
JA: 3.7 id one and also Provide Speech Synth Config
18:12:09 [sharper]
s/id/is
18:12:59 [sharper]
JA: Also ways of speaking - would only apply if claiming self voicing conformance
18:14:03 [kford]
/me testing.
18:14:30 [AllanJ]
SH: what about kiosks, self -voicing, speech generated on the server
18:15:57 [sharper]
SH: www.webanywhere.co.uk
18:16:30 [sharper]
SH: oops: http://webanywhere.cs.washington.edu/wa.php
18:16:59 [sharper]
JA: do we have a need to speech synth configuration
18:17:25 [sharper]
GL: Are orgs working on web browsing via telephone
18:17:54 [sharper]
GL: should we come back and review all these self voicing aspects?
18:18:37 [sharper]
GL: We should get input on this - at the next draft
18:18:50 [sharper]
GL: don't see any harm - but most wont care
18:19:19 [sharper]
JA: this is really the special case - Synth config is the only AT part we really address.
18:19:44 [sharper]
BE: Magnification is covered in the zoom facility
18:19:57 [kford]
/me need to step out for one minute. I'd go for feedback.
18:21:39 [kford]
/me I am back. sorry.
18:23:14 [Greg]
Wikipedia entry on Voice Browsers, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_browser, includes a link to the W3C Voice Browser Working Group - http://www.w3.org/Voice/
18:25:10 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to contact Voice Browser Working Group to see if they have covered our accessibility issues and if they have leads for our CR implementations
18:25:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-267 - Contact Voice Browser Working Group to see if they have covered our accessibility issues and if they have leads for our CR implementations [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
18:25:21 [Greg]
We can ask W3C Voice Browser Working Group to help us identify the two example user agents we need to cite in order to include success criteria for such products.
18:26:22 [AllanJ]
action: jallan to craft request for input on synthesized speech inclusion in the document
18:26:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-268 - Craft request for input on synthesized speech inclusion in the document [on Jim Allan - due 2010-02-04].
18:29:49 [kford]
q+
18:31:53 [sharper]
ack kford
18:34:51 [sharper]
All: General discussion of the technical feasibility and requirements of the requests contained within the email.
18:37:39 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/Voice/
18:37:57 [sharper]
RESOLVED: By ACTIONS 267 and 268 - wait to reply to Guillaume Olivrin until actions complete, and we know what 'Voice' is doing.
18:39:47 [AllanJ]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Aug/att-0000/00-part
18:40:11 [AllanJ]
"UAs should not pair a user-selected foreground or background text-color with an author-selected foreground or background text-color."
18:40:40 [sharper]
GL: Don't we have this already
18:40:48 [sharper]
JA: Revisits 3.6
18:41:32 [sharper]
3.6.1 Configure Text: The user can globally set the following characteristics of visually rendered text content, overriding any specified by the author or user agent defaults (Level A):
18:41:32 [sharper]
* (a) text scale (i.e., the general size of text) ,
18:41:33 [sharper]
* (b) font family, and
18:41:33 [sharper]
* (c) text color (i.e., foreground and background).
18:41:33 [sharper]
3.6.2 Preserve Distinctions: When rendered text is rescaled, distinctions in the size of rendered text are preserved (e.g., headers continue to be larger than body text). (Level A)
18:41:35 [sharper]
3.6.3 Option Range: The range of options for each text characteristic includes at least (Level A):
18:41:37 [sharper]
* (a) the range offered by global preference settings supported by the operating environment (i.e configured though the Control Panel or System) utility, or
18:41:40 [sharper]
* (b) if no such utility is available, the range supported by the conventional APIs of the operating environment for drawing text.
18:41:43 [sharper]
3.6.4 Maintain contrast: The user has the option to constrain the configuration of the default text foreground color, background color and highlighting colors, so that text contrast is maintained between them. (Level AAA)
18:42:11 [sharper]
JA: seems to be covered by 3.6.1
18:43:05 [sharper]
GL: Could be the 'too big a hammer' - they maybe suggesting that they don't want turn off the colours
18:43:16 [sharper]
JA: 3.6.1 reflects current practice
18:43:56 [sharper]
JA: I think we have this covered
18:44:11 [sharper]
GL: maybe make this an explicit example in the implementation guidelines
18:47:05 [sharper]
RESOLVED: JS to send them email stating that we think that 3.6.1 reflects current practice, asking them to elaborate if required.
18:47:08 [jeanne]
action: JS to answer comment saying that we think section 3.6.1 covers the comment.
18:47:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-269 - Answer comment saying that we think section 3.6.1 covers the comment. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
18:47:24 [sharper]
zakim, close item 3
18:47:24 [Zakim]
agendum 3, review comments on working draft http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Sep/0000.html /
18:47:26 [Zakim]
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2009Aug/att-0000/00-part, closed
18:47:28 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:47:29 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
18:47:38 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 4
18:47:38 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Editor's draft and publication prep – What changes have we made? What areas do we want feedback on? Group comes up with details and Jeanne will write." taken up
18:47:42 [Zakim]
... [from sharper]
18:48:08 [sharper]
Zakim, agenda?
18:48:08 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
18:48:10 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
18:48:13 [Zakim]
4. Editor's draft and publication prep – What changes have we made? What areas do we want feedback on? Group comes up with details and Jeanne will write. [from sharper]
18:48:17 [Zakim]
5. Discuss the remaining proposals from survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/ [from sharper]
18:48:21 [Zakim]
6. F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/ [from sharper]
18:49:29 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100125/
18:51:25 [sharper]
JS: runs through changes she has identified.
18:52:15 [jeanne]
Is the format of the new support document, Implementing UAAG 2.0, useful to browser, media player, and other user agent designers, developers and project managers; AT vendors; and policy makers? Is additional information required for it to be useful?
18:52:22 [jeanne]
Is the language for the tests determining a user agent clear and understandable? Are the test conditions of a user agent complete?
18:52:29 [jeanne]
Should the UAAG 2.0 include guidance for self-voicing user agents that provide their own audio interface?
18:53:00 [sharper]
JS: this last in relation to Agenda Item 3
18:56:15 [sharper]
JS: running through items that may have changed and soliciting comments / issues from the group
19:00:42 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to create a diff document compared to the last WD (july) and send it to the list.
19:00:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-270 - Create a diff document compared to the last WD (july) and send it to the list. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
19:02:58 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to fix numbering in the implementing document.
19:02:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-271 - Fix numbering in the implementing document. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
19:03:15 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Locking Down Jan 25th Draft - Create Changes Compared to this - move along based on ACTIONS 270 and 271
19:03:29 [sharper]
zakim, close item 4
19:03:29 [Zakim]
agendum 4, Editor's draft and publication prep – What changes have we made? What areas do we want feedback on? Group comes up with details and Jeanne will write., closed
19:03:32 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:03:33 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
19:03:39 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 5
19:03:39 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Discuss the remaining proposals from survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/" taken up [from sharper]
19:03:59 [sharper]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/results
19:05:25 [sharper]
topic: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/results#xq2
19:05:41 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
19:05:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-minutes.html sharper
19:06:43 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Postponed as both people who have issues have sent regrets for today.
19:06:50 [sharper]
zakim, agenda?
19:06:50 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
19:06:51 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
19:06:52 [Zakim]
5. Discuss the remaining proposals from survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/ [from sharper]
19:06:55 [Zakim]
6. F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/ [from sharper]
19:07:01 [AllanJ]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100127/
19:07:30 [sharper]
topic Move to next Survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100127/results
19:15:19 [AllanJ]
discussion of element for technology specific (xml, html) vs generic 'element' for interface items, flash tag, dom node, etc.
19:20:26 [AllanJ]
SH: 'element' should be a generic term that applies to content (html, flash, etc.)
19:21:59 [AllanJ]
SH: need a different term for elements in the user interface
19:24:32 [sharper]
JA: Anyone have a problem with element used to represent cross-tech structure
19:24:50 [sharper]
JA what will we call the things in the UA Interface
19:26:38 [jeanne]
action: JS to search document for consistency of use of "element" so that it only applies to the structure of the content and not the user interface.
19:26:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-272 - Search document for consistency of use of "element" so that it only applies to the structure of the content and not the user interface. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
19:27:45 [sharper]
BE: can we use the term component to signify part of the interface
19:28:04 [sharper]
BE: Making this more explicit in the glossary
19:28:14 [sharper]
JA: looks good as we already use this
19:28:15 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to check document to change any use of "element" referring to the user interface, to change it to "component"
19:28:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-273 - Check document to change any use of "element" referring to the user interface, to change it to "component" [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
19:30:17 [sharper]
GL: standardise element to always say 'in the rendered content' - as a qualifier
19:30:46 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Via ACTIONS 272 and 273
19:30:58 [sharper]
topic: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100127/results#xq2
19:34:11 [sharper]
GL: same is true of the disabled element
19:34:39 [sharper]
GL: occurs as an alternative to enabled element
19:34:56 [sharper]
GL: Defn for this could be removed as well
19:36:03 [sharper]
SH: remove the term interactive and teh hyperlink
19:36:05 [AllanJ]
enabled element, disabled element
19:36:07 [AllanJ]
An element with associated behaviors that can be activated through the user interface or through an API. The set of elements that a user agent enables is generally derived from, but is not limited to, the set of elements defined by implemented markup languages. A disabled element is a potentially enabled element, that is not currently available for activation (e.g., a "grayed out" menu item).
19:36:31 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Change to element - as interactive element is only used within the glossary - not the normative text.
19:37:00 [Zakim]
-kford
19:37:04 [Zakim]
-Greg
19:37:09 [Zakim]
-sharper
19:37:13 [jeanne]
action: JS to update the definition of Enabled element and disabled element
19:37:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-274 - Update the definition of Enabled element and disabled element [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-02-04].
19:37:25 [sharper]
zakim, close item 5
19:37:25 [Zakim]
agendum 5, Discuss the remaining proposals from survey - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100112/, closed
19:37:27 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:37:28 [Zakim]
2. Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open [from sharper]
19:37:41 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 2
19:37:41 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open" taken up [from sharper]
19:37:53 [sharper]
RESOLVED: Leave until Next Week.
19:37:59 [sharper]
zakim, close item 2
19:37:59 [Zakim]
agendum 2, Review Action Items - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open, closed
19:38:02 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
19:38:03 [Zakim]
6. F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/ [from sharper]
19:38:14 [sharper]
zakim, take up item 6
19:38:14 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/" taken up [from sharper]
19:38:35 [sharper]
RESOLVED: No Time for this Item - Bump to next Week.
19:38:44 [sharper]
zakim, close item 6
19:38:44 [Zakim]
agendum 6, F2F - 2/24-26 – attendance survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100119/, closed
19:38:46 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
19:38:54 [sharper]
rrsagent, make logs public
19:39:02 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
19:39:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-minutes.html sharper
19:39:34 [sharper]
zakim, please part
19:39:34 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were allanj, kford, sharper, Greg, Jeanne, Bim
19:39:34 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:39:40 [sharper]
rrsagent, draft minutes
19:39:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-minutes.html sharper
19:40:26 [sharper]
rrsagent, please part
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-actions.rdf :
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to contact Voice Browser Working Group to see if they have covered our accessibility issues and if they have leads for our CR implementations [1]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T18-25-10
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jallan to craft request for input on synthesized speech inclusion in the document [2]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T18-26-22
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to answer comment saying that we think section 3.6.1 covers the comment. [3]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T18-47-08
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to create a diff document compared to the last WD (july) and send it to the list. [4]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T19-00-42
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to fix numbering in the implementing document. [5]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T19-02-58
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to search document for consistency of use of "element" so that it only applies to the structure of the content and not the user interface. [6]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T19-26-38
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to check document to change any use of "element" referring to the user interface, to change it to "component" [7]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T19-28-15
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update the definition of Enabled element and disabled element [8]
19:40:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-ua-irc#T19-37-13