17:03:08 RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
17:03:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-html-wg-irc
17:03:14 rrsagent, start meting
17:03:14 I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meting', rubys. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:03:17 MichaelC has joined #html-wg
17:03:21 rrsagent, start meeting
17:03:21 I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', rubys. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:03:33 trackbot, start meeting
17:03:35 RRSAgent, make logs public
17:03:35 Zakim has joined #html-wg
17:03:37 Zakim, this will be HTML
17:03:37 HTML matches both HTML_WG()12:00PM and WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
17:03:38 Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
17:03:38 Date: 28 January 2010
17:03:46 zakim, this will be html_wg
17:03:52 ok, rubys, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
17:04:06 janina has joined #html-wg
17:04:09 +Matt
17:04:21 +Cooper
17:04:21 zakim, who's on the phone?
17:04:23 On the phone I see Masinter, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, Julian, [Microsoft.a], +1.613.998.aaaa, Scott+AT&T, +49.699.435.aabb, Radhika_Roy.a, Matt, Cooper (muted)
17:04:25 zakim, call janina
17:04:28 ok, janina; the call is being made
17:04:30 +Janina
17:04:50 -Cooper
17:04:52 Zakim, call Mike
17:04:54 zakim, [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, krisk, franko, jmann
17:04:55 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
17:04:55 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
17:04:56 I'l be dialed in shortly, havng minor phone difficulties
17:04:57 +Cooper
17:04:59 +Mike
17:05:01 +Sam
17:05:03 +adrianba, krisk, franko, jmann; got it
17:05:05 +paulc; got it
17:05:08 [Microsoft] has paulc
17:05:17 +Cynthia_Shelly
17:06:11 matt has left #html-wg
17:07:46 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2010JanMar/0008.html
17:07:59 cyns has joined #html-wg
17:08:26 does someone want to volunteer to scribe?
17:08:49 zakim, who's on the phone?
17:08:49 On the phone I see Masinter, [Microsoft], Radhika_Roy, Julian, [Microsoft.a], +1.613.998.aaaa, Scott+AT&T, +49.699.435.aabb, Radhika_Roy.a, Matt, Cooper, Janina, Sam, Mike,
17:08:52 ... Cynthia_Shelly
17:08:52 [Microsoft] has paulc
17:08:53 [Microsoft.a] has adrianba, krisk, franko, jmann
17:09:15 zakim, [Microsoft.a] has tross
17:09:15 +tross; got it
17:09:32 + +1.415.595.aacc
17:09:52 Eliot_Graff has joined #html-wg
17:10:00 - +49.699.435.aabb
17:10:16 Zakim: pick a scribe
17:10:29 zakim, pick a scribe
17:10:29 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose +1.415.595.aacc
17:10:53 +[IPcaller]
17:10:55 aroben has joined #html-wg
17:10:59 zakim, pick a scribe
17:10:59 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Radhika_Roy.a
17:10:59 zakim, pick a scribe
17:11:01 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose tross
17:11:19 + +1.206.850.aadd
17:11:48 scribenick: adrianba
17:11:51 zakim, 1.206.850.aadd is me
17:11:53 sorry, Eliot_Graff, I do not recognize a party named '1.206.850.aadd'
17:11:58 aroben_ has joined #html-wg
17:12:04 zakim, who is making noise?
17:12:14 mjs, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike (20%)
17:12:23 zakim, +1.206.850.aadd is me
17:12:23 +Eliot_Graff; got it
17:12:34 topic: ACTION items due by Thu Jan 28
17:12:38 Zakim, Mike is me
17:12:38 +MikeSmith; got it
17:12:40 ACTION-29?
17:12:40 ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN
17:12:40 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
17:12:42 Zakim, mute me
17:12:42 MikeSmith should now be muted
17:13:03 mjs: plh on vacation so not going to give an update
17:13:05 Zakim, unmute me
17:13:05 MikeSmith should no longer be muted
17:13:35 paulc: PSIG prepared FAQ for March AC meeting
17:13:43 +Laura
17:13:49 ...believe W3C plans to do survey of membership before meeting mar 22/23
17:13:57 ...discuss results then
17:14:14 mjs: when plh is back can fill in details
17:14:19 MikeSmith concurs with Paul's summary
17:14:19 ACTION-138?
17:14:19 ACTION-138 -- Steve Faulkner to produce an ARIA matrix based on Henri's work -- due 2010-01-14 -- OPEN
17:14:19 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138
17:14:24 Philippe is actively working on ACTION-29
17:14:34 PSIG is discussing this actively.
17:14:54 janina: could we leave this with the TF
17:15:08 mjs: need deadline and responsible party to report back at deadline
17:15:09 Could this one be subsumed by ACTION-170?
17:15:24 action-170?
17:15:24 ACTION-170 -- Michael(tm) Smith to update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN
17:15:24 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/170
17:15:30 janina: could be added to 170, yes
17:15:57 action-170 says it is Michael(tm) Smith, not Janina
17:16:28 got it
17:16:37 paulc: this is just a zakim issue - action states it belongs to janina
17:16:54 mjs: let's table discussion for now until 170 complete
17:16:57 We0 could consider making ACTION-138 part of ACTION-17
17:16:58 ACTION-168?
17:16:58 ACTION-168 -- Michael(tm) Smith to prepare H:TML for First Public Working Draft -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN
17:16:58 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/168
17:17:35 mjs: this is the document discussed with TAG who are interested in having published
17:17:42 ...should change status to be non-normative
17:17:52 I think MikeSmith is muted
17:17:56 ...because of prior discussions
17:18:03 mikesmith: ready to go
17:18:08 ...just need to know what to do next
17:18:16 mjs: post on mailing list and say that
17:18:23 ...have document to nominate as FPWD
17:18:32 http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/
17:18:35 ...chairs will issue cfc when discussion settles down
17:18:43 q?
17:19:00 paulc: is it so close to publication we could consider publishing with next round of heartbeat docs
17:19:16 mikesmith: up to you - don't want this to hold up other docs
17:19:21 cardona507 has joined #html-wg
17:19:22 the opinions about "heartbeat" documents are individual, not linked
17:19:27 ...if no objections, would be great to publish alongside
17:19:28 Thanks for the explanation.
17:19:50 mjs: will be discussing individual so should consider being in same set
17:20:08 mikesmith: okay, will announce today with intention to publish alongside other docs
17:20:20 ACTION-170?
17:20:20 ACTION-170 -- Michael(tm) Smith to update A11Y timeline for tracker related issues -- due 2010-01-28 -- OPEN
17:20:20 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/170
17:20:23 When Mike does the announcement one of the chairs will close ACTION-168
17:20:34 +cardona507
17:20:38 mjs: can we have a status update?
17:20:52 Zakim, mute me
17:20:52 cardona507 should now be muted
17:20:54 janina: short update is we believe will be finished by end of june
17:21:10 ...have looked at various 90+ bugs on html5 with kw a11y
17:21:23 ...looked at grouping into topics that could have change proposals
17:21:31 ...such as alt summary title display
17:21:46 ...tentatively approved by tf as meaningful way to proceed
17:21:53 ...might need sub-teams
17:22:06 ...haven't yet got specific about timelines
17:22:18 ...some of issues such as canvas - expect report at end of feb
17:22:21 ...video like that
17:22:34 ...concerned that not further along
17:22:39 ...these both need engineering
17:22:47 ...have 10 topic areas
17:22:47 Bugs Proposed to be Accepted by the A11y TF
17:22:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/accepted
17:22:48 Bugs Proposed to be Rejected by the A11y TF
17:22:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/rejected
17:22:57 ...might not need to take up all of them
17:23:02 ...wai might pick up some
17:23:18 ...didn't get as far with scoping as hoped but general agreement on these
17:23:25 ...2 per month takes us to june
17:23:50 ...working on drafting consensus process - approved today
17:23:58 ...this pushed summary back one week
17:24:10 ...looking at list of 10, actively working on half already
17:24:12 proposed consensus document: http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/html/consensus-procedures.html
17:24:18 mjs: sounds good, useful update
17:24:27 ...when will be a good time to give update on timeline?
17:24:38 janina: end of each month?
17:24:53 mjs: sooner if possible, on these 10 areas some already have been escalated to issues
17:25:19 ...some may have not yet so if there is at least one bug in each category finding time to decide if you want to escalate would be good
17:25:20 Accessibility Change Proposal Status: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accessibility_Change_Proposal_Status
17:25:25 ...to get these into html wg tracker
17:25:31 janina: each of the 10 do have bugs
17:25:49 ...we going through the areas and identifying the list of bugs
17:25:53 ...we can do that
17:26:01 Could you also give us at least the two first areas to come back to the WG?
17:26:02 -kliehm
17:26:33 michael: might be able to have first draft by next week but these things take longer so 2 weeks is better
17:26:45 mjs: 2 weeks sounds good
17:27:02 ACTION-172?
17:27:02 ACTION-172 -- Larry Masinter to insure Change Proposal for ISSUE-4 (versioning) also covers ISSUE-84 (legacy doctype) -- due 2010-02-10 -- OPEN
17:27:02 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/172
17:27:03 Proposal on categories for bugs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0246.html
17:27:16 mjs: larry requested extension which was granted - skipping over this
17:27:26 I sent some additional comments which we could discuss on the list
17:27:27 Topic: Update on new drafts
17:27:40 mjs: we'd like to publish new round of WD
17:27:54 ...only remaining blocker is ian making revisions to microdata draft
17:27:59 ...to be more standalone
17:28:08 + +49.179.103.aaee
17:28:15 ...and address those objections from first call about being separate from html5
17:28:25 ...held up by technical issues
17:28:37 ...will get status update later today - maybe additional week
17:28:43 ...that is our only blocker
17:28:50 ...want this done asap
17:29:11 masinter: made comments about rdfa that manu might not have done yet
17:29:18 mjs: thinks manu said he has done this
17:29:35 masinter: not convinced microdata is in scope - not sure how that has been addressed
17:29:50 mjs: fine to mention that again at time of cfc if you believe it hasn't been fully addressed
17:30:47 masinter: will send to the list about this
17:30:57 topic: Call for Proposals that close by Thu Jan 28
17:31:00 ISSUE-81?
17:31:00 ISSUE-81 -- Offline Web Applications section should use the term "representation" instead of "resource" -- RAISED
17:31:00 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/81
17:31:07 Dashiva has joined #html-wg
17:31:15 mjs: roy won't have time to start soon
17:31:31 ...week of extra time in case anyone else wanted to pick this up
17:31:38 ...seems like no one has volunteered
17:31:48 ...so we're going to close without prejudice
17:32:08 ...doesn't mean nothing can ever happen but someone would need to do change proposal work to reopen for consideration
17:32:19 ...chairs tried to find volunteer but we don't have anyone yet
17:32:41 masinter: TAG discussion on what the wording might be - mail on this in the last week
17:32:51 ...if i bring it up in tag this morning could we wait until tomorrow
17:32:53 mjs: sure
17:33:10 ...let's do that - extra day for tag consideration otherwise closed tomorrow
17:33:21 topic: New Calls for Proposals this Week
17:33:41 mjs: shelley accepted to do these by mar 1
17:33:55 s/mar 1 / mar 31/
17:33:56 ...we do have 1 volunteer for each but if someone else wants to as well that would be fine
17:34:03 ISSUE-93?
17:34:03 ISSUE-93 -- Delete Details Element -- RAISED
17:34:03 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/93
17:34:13 ISSUE-94?
17:34:13 ISSUE-94 -- Split Web Application Core and UA specific elements into separate spec -- RAISED
17:34:13 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/94
17:34:20 ISSUE-96?
17:34:20 ISSUE-96 -- Remove/Discard the Progress Element -- RAISED
17:34:20 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/96
17:34:26 ISSUE-97?
17:34:26 ISSUE-97 -- Remove/Discard the Meter Element -- RAISED
17:34:26 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/97
17:34:46 mjs: if anyone cares about these and wants to pursue them and help shelley you can do so
17:34:53 mjs: questons?
17:35:07 topic: Issues To Move Forward On
17:35:21 mjs: chairs identified 3 issues to move on and hopefully resolve quickly
17:35:25 iSSUE-83?
17:35:25 ISSUE-83 -- Use of the dt and dd elements in figure and details content models -- OPEN
17:35:25 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/83
17:35:42 mjs: multiple change proposals and discussion
17:35:49 ...almost come to consensus agreement
17:35:54 ...minor sticking point about name
17:36:17 ...final chance to remove objections about summary or dsummary
17:36:46 ...will revise change proposal and let other chairs decide if necessary
17:36:56 ...they will probably make a cfc or maybe a poll
17:37:05 ...should have this settled in a week or two
17:37:07 issue-66?
17:37:07 ISSUE-66 -- image analysis heuristics -- OPEN
17:37:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/66
17:37:31 mjs: had a change proposal to remove the para referencing user agents doing image analysis for images lacking alt
17:38:02 ...some discussion on this - could be removed, maybe add statement allowing UA to do this and refer to UA a11y guidelines
17:38:11 ...hoping we can reach consensus on this
17:38:21 ...if not we'll ask for counter proposals
17:38:24 issue-27?
17:38:24 ISSUE-27 -- @rel value ownership, registry consideration -- OPEN
17:38:24 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/27
17:38:42 mjs: change proposal to use registry for rel
17:38:51 ...believe objections have been addressed
17:38:53 sbublava has joined #html-wg
17:39:13 ...if there isn't anything else soon then expect to just cfc on this or ask editor to just make changes
17:39:30 ...these are 3 to focus on now, as these are closed out will move on others
17:39:36 mjs: questions or comments?
17:39:48