14:31:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
14:31:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/19-bpwg-irc
14:31:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:31:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
14:31:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be BPWG
14:31:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM already started
14:31:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:31:33 <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2010
14:31:51 <DKA> DKA has joined #bpwg
14:31:57 <Zakim> +[W3C-Spain]
14:31:58 <francois> Chair: DKA
14:32:04 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:32:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, +0207881aaaa, +0771785aabb, +23175aacc, [W3C-Spain]
14:32:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, miguel, EdC, tomhume, adam, jo, francois, trackbot
14:32:07 <miguel> Zakim, [W3C-Spain] is me
14:32:07 <Zakim> +miguel; got it
14:32:15 <Zakim> + +49.238.aadd
14:32:18 <DKA> zakim, aabb is me
14:32:18 <Zakim> +DKA; got it
14:32:22 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:32:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, +0207881aaaa, DKA, +23175aacc, miguel, +49.238.aadd
14:32:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, miguel, EdC, tomhume, adam, jo, francois, trackbot
14:32:38 <Zakim> + +41.31.972.aaee
14:32:40 <tomhume> zakim, ??P3 is me
14:32:43 <Zakim> +tomhume; got it
14:32:48 <adam> zakim, aaaa is me
14:32:50 <jey> jey has joined #bpwg
14:32:50 <francois> zakim, aadd is me
14:32:51 <Zakim> +adam; got it
14:32:55 <Zakim> +francois; got it
14:33:02 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:33:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see tomhume, adam, DKA, +23175aacc, miguel, francois, +41.31.972.aaee
14:33:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see jey, DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, miguel, EdC, tomhume, adam, jo, francois, trackbot
14:33:37 <francois> zakim, aaee is EdC
14:33:44 <Zakim> +EdC; got it
14:33:59 <francois> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2010Jan/0011.html
14:34:05 <DKA> zakim, who is here?
14:34:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see tomhume, adam, DKA, +23175aacc, miguel, francois, EdC
14:34:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see jey, DKA, Zakim, RRSAgent, miguel, EdC, tomhume, adam, jo, francois, trackbot
14:34:14 <Zakim> +??P0
14:34:23 <jo> zakim, ??P0 is me
14:34:23 <Zakim> +jo; got it
14:34:46 <achuter> achuter has joined #bpwg
14:34:50 <francois> zakim, aacc is jey
14:34:50 <Zakim> +jey; got it
14:35:51 <Zakim> + +03491121aaff
14:35:52 <francois> Regrets: kai, brucel, nacho, jeffs, sangwhan, yeliz
14:36:00 <achuter> zakim, +034 is me
14:36:00 <Zakim> +achuter; got it
14:36:02 <jo> zakim, mute me
14:36:02 <Zakim> jo should now be muted
14:36:18 <SeanP> SeanP has joined #bpwg
14:36:33 <francois> Scribe: francois
14:36:47 <francois> Topic: Mobile Web Application Best Practices
14:37:08 <Zakim> + +1.630.414.aagg
14:37:15 <SeanP> Zakim, aagg is me
14:37:17 <Zakim> +SeanP; got it
14:37:19 <adam> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Drafts/BestPractices-2.0/ED-mobile-bp2-20100114
14:37:27 <francois> adam: there was one comment from chaals, but I think he just misread the changes I had made to the document.
14:37:36 <francois> ... The latest draft is really just a list of typos.
14:37:49 <francois> ... I don't think we need to change anything on response to chaals' comments, really.
14:37:59 <francois> dka: do we need to treat this as official comments?
14:38:11 <francois> adam: I don't think so. They were editorial comments.
14:38:32 <francois> dka: so we're done!
14:38:43 <francois> ... Any other comments?
14:39:26 <EdC> Question -- has anybody performed a general check of consistency for all internal document links?
14:40:40 <francois> francois: nothing really to add. Just note that we have placeholders for icons we never put in the draft.
14:41:14 <francois> dka: right. Do you think we can publish the document and tackle that later on without problems? This is purely editorial, right?
14:41:26 <francois> francois: right. I don't think we'll have any problem with that.
14:41:44 <francois> adam: Some comments of Alan might need to be addressed.
14:42:27 <DKA> Topic: CR Exit Criteria for BP2
14:42:36 <francois> dka: I don't think that should block us. We should go on with the publication.
14:43:07 <francois> dka: About exit criteria, as I recall, we decided at the F2F that we would be using similar criteria to those we used for BP1.
14:43:38 <francois> ... This would be based on voluntary implementation reports.
14:43:41 <francois> ... Is that correct?
14:43:47 <francois> adam: I think that's correct.
14:44:14 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-mobile-bp-20060627/ CR of mobile web best practices 1.0
14:44:52 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/CR-mobile-bp-20060627/#status Status of this document section in the CR of BP1 that contains the exit criteria
14:45:33 <francois> [[ The Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group expects to request that the Director advance this document to Proposed Recommendation once:
14:45:33 <francois>    1. Sufficient reports of implementation experience have been gathered to demonstrate that the Mobile Web Best Practices are implementable and are interpreted in a consistent manner. To test this, the Working Groups expects to evaluate web content (web sites, pages) that has been created using the Mobile Web Best Practices. To exit "Candidate Recommendation" for each Best Practice, at least two web sites/pages which are not solely demonstrations of Best 
14:45:33 <francois> Practices implementation should pass the Best Practice.
14:45:34 <francois>    2. An implementation report has been produced indicating the results of using each best practices for the web sites/pages considered
14:45:38 <francois>  ]]
14:46:00 <francois> dka: [ reading exit criteria from BP1 ]
14:46:10 <DKA> http://www.w3.org/2006/06/mwbp-implementation-report
14:46:37 <francois> dka: I suggest we basically duplicate this for MWABP. Does anyone see any problem with that approach?
14:46:48 <francois> ... From an architectural perpective, this seems correct.
14:46:54 <DKA> :)
14:47:29 <jo> [2 implementation reports for each BP should be sufficient]
14:47:38 <francois> adam: This is fine with the understanding that the resulting implementation report will be less "green" than the one for BP1. Web sites won't implement all of the best practices, only a restricted set of them in their Mobile Web application.
14:48:36 <francois> francois: nothing to add. I agree with the approach.
14:48:38 <jo> q+ to ask about NOTs
14:48:56 <DKA> ack jo
14:48:57 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to ask about NOTs
14:48:59 <EdC> ...especially since every possible combination of best practices might not make sense.
14:49:03 <francois> ... 2 implementation reports for each BP should be sufficient, no need to implement all of the BPs.
14:50:05 <francois> jo: The only slight problem might have to do with negative best practices. If we have something with "don't in any case do this", then we could have a problem with some Web applications.
14:50:07 <DKA> e.g. "Do not Execute Unescaped or Untrusted JSON data"
14:50:18 <francois> adam: I don't think we have such strong wording.
14:50:21 <jo> zakim, mute me
14:50:21 <Zakim> jo should now be muted
14:50:33 <francois> dka: hmm, what about the one on JSON?
14:50:56 <francois> ... We may need to amend the bullet point, then.
14:51:46 <francois> q+
14:51:58 <DKA> ack francois
14:52:31 <francois> francois: a bit at a loss about the problem with NOT?
14:52:36 <francois> s/?//
14:53:31 <francois> dka: we did not have negative BPs in BP1.
14:53:48 <francois> francois: we had, actually. Do not use frames, pop-ups. Avoid cookies.
14:54:01 <francois> dka: right.
14:54:08 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will use the same exit criteria we used for MWBP 1.0 for our CR of MWABP.
14:54:23 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will use the same exit criteria we used for our CR of MWBP 1.0 for our CR of MWABP.
14:54:27 <DKA> +1
14:54:30 <tomhume> +1
14:54:32 <francois> +1
14:54:34 <miguel> +1
14:54:38 <achuter> +1
14:54:39 <adam> +1
14:54:42 <jey> +1
14:55:00 <francois> RESOLUTION: We will use the same exit criteria we used for our CR of MWBP 1.0 for our CR of MWABP.
14:55:13 <francois> dka: about the implementation report, francois?
14:55:31 <francois> francois: I'll do it, yes.
14:55:47 <jo> q+ to suggest that we poll for who is going to do an implementation report
14:55:49 <francois> ACTION: daoust to prepare the implementation report for the CR of MWABP
14:55:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1036 - Prepare the implementation report for the CR of MWABP [on François Daoust - due 2010-01-26].
14:55:54 <DKA> ack jo
14:55:55 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to suggest that we poll for who is going to do an implementation report
14:56:47 <francois> jo: I don't think that implementation reports are going to "fly in". We'll have to chase them. We should track people and ensure they provide implementation reports.
14:57:00 <francois> adam: true. I can think of a couple of applications within Google, but that's not enough.
14:57:11 <francois> jo: Right. What about Vodafone or Betavine
14:57:21 <jo> zakim, mute me
14:57:21 <Zakim> jo should now be muted
14:57:29 <francois> dka: let's make a WBS report.
14:57:48 <francois> ... We just need to understand what the implementation report will look like.
14:58:04 <francois> ... Coming back to the question of time frame, any thoughts on time frame.
14:58:11 <EdC> What is the experience from BP1?
14:58:31 <jo> iirc was a month or two
14:58:51 <francois> [I think the minimum is 6 weeks, but 2 months is a reasonable target, yes]
14:58:58 <francois> dka: shall we so 2 months?
14:59:02 <francois> adam: sounds good.
14:59:06 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: 2 months of CR for MWABP
14:59:08 <DKA> +1
14:59:13 <francois> +1
14:59:29 <francois> RESOLUTION: 2 months of CR for MWABP
15:00:21 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group resolves to request transition to CR of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices (editor's draft dated 14 Jan 2010).
15:00:30 <francois> Topic: Transition to CR for MWABP
15:00:43 <francois> +1
15:00:46 <EdC> +1
15:00:46 <jo> q+ to suggest that the latest draft has been available for less than a week so we need to let folks (including me) have a chance to read it
15:00:54 <DKA> ack jo
15:01:08 <Zakim> jo, you wanted to suggest that the latest draft has been available for less than a week so we need to let folks (including me) have a chance to read it
15:01:30 <francois> jo: I do not want to hold this up by any mean. However, we had only two working days to review the latest draft.
15:01:40 <francois> ... so we should give people time to review the draft.
15:03:04 <francois> francois: right. I wouldn't call the latest draft a new draft, as it only contains a tiny list of typos compared to the previous one.
15:03:37 <francois> ... People should have reviewed the draft before.
15:03:49 <jo> zakim, mute me
15:03:49 <Zakim> jo should now be muted
15:03:57 <francois> ... but I think we could reformulate the proposed resolution as jo mentioned.
15:04:09 <francois> dka: I don't think that holding up this for one more week will do any good.
15:04:14 <francois> ... Let's move forward.
15:04:33 <francois> jo: If enough people have reviewed the spec, then I'm fine with it.
15:04:53 <francois> ... I'll rephrase that as a question
15:05:21 <jo> my sentiment is as francois minuted namely : If enough people have reviewed the spec, then I'm fine with it.
15:05:31 <DKA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The group resolves to request transition to CR of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices (editor's draft dated 14 Jan 2010).
15:05:46 <adam> +1
15:06:03 <francois> dka: ok, I don't see any good reason to hold this up some more.
15:06:03 <DKA> +1
15:06:06 <francois> +1
15:06:09 <achuter> +1
15:06:11 <EdC> +1
15:06:13 <jey> +1
15:06:31 <jo> +1
15:06:41 <tomhume> +1
15:06:41 <SeanP> +1
15:06:41 <francois> dka: awesome, let's do it!
15:06:46 <francois> RESOLUTION: The group resolves to request transition to CR of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices (editor's draft dated 14 Jan 2010).
15:07:04 <jo> plaudits to the editor!
15:07:28 <francois> dka: anything else that we need to do, on top of congratulating the editor, of course?
15:07:37 <francois> q?
15:08:44 <jo> ack
15:08:49 <jo> ack me
15:08:54 <DKA> Topic: CT
15:09:00 <francois> francois: just so that people are not surprised, please note that the actual transition is likely to require a transition call. It won't be done tomorrow.
15:09:32 <DKA> +1
15:09:41 <tomhume> :)
15:09:47 <francois> jo: last week, we said that I'd be given 2 weeks to update the CT draft. Well, I failed this week, but still plan to do it this week.
15:10:05 <francois> s/failed this week/failed last week/
15:10:26 <francois> ... but we had a lovely time in Brighton yesterday evening.
15:10:51 <francois> dka: I think it's on scope because it was about sustainability, and that included a comparison between a Web app and a native app.
15:11:02 <francois> ... in terms of power consumption.
15:11:30 <francois> dka: Anyway, any other business?
15:12:03 <jey> q+
15:12:03 <DKA> Topic: New Group Member?
15:12:13 <DKA> ack jey
15:12:15 <jo> zakim, mute me
15:12:15 <Zakim> jo should now be muted
15:12:21 <francois> jo: One thing, Dan. We have failed to introduce Jérôme, and we have been a little bite rude here. It is traditional to let new participants of the group introduce themselves.
15:13:10 <jo> welcome Jérôme!
15:13:12 <EdC> Are you joining just this group (whose life-time is limited) or also some other W3C activities?
15:13:13 <francois> jey: I'm part of France Telecom. I'm a developer, doing Web developments. What we're trying to do is to do some outreach internally about possibilities Web applications introduce.
15:13:54 <francois> ... I'm excited to join this group, although I realize I'm a bit late.
15:14:12 <francois> dka: never too late to join the group! Welcome to this group.
15:14:22 <jo> -> http://www.thegreenswitch.org/ The Green Switch, subject of last night's MobileMonday London
15:14:28 <francois> ... I'll be happy to talk with you, especially for outreach activities.
15:14:48 <francois> dka: no other business?
15:14:53 <Zakim> -tomhume
15:14:54 <francois> ... Then I declare the call closed!
15:14:56 <Zakim> -adam
15:14:57 <Zakim> -achuter
15:14:59 <francois> [call adjourned]
15:14:59 <Zakim> -jey
15:15:01 <Zakim> -SeanP
15:15:02 <jo> zakim, drop me
15:15:03 <Zakim> -DKA
15:15:03 <Zakim> jo is being disconnected
15:15:04 <Zakim> -jo
15:15:07 <Zakim> -EdC
15:15:09 <Zakim> -miguel
15:15:52 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:15:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/19-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:16:00 <jo> jo has left #bpwg
15:19:20 <Zakim> -francois
15:19:22 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended
15:19:23 <Zakim> Attendees were +0207881aaaa, +0771785aabb, +23175aacc, miguel, +49.238.aadd, DKA, +41.31.972.aaee, tomhume, adam, francois, EdC, jo, jey, +03491121aaff, achuter, +1.630.414.aagg,
15:19:25 <Zakim> ... SeanP
15:20:27 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:20:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/19-bpwg-minutes.html francois
15:40:53 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
15:40:53 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/19-bpwg-actions.rdf :
15:40:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: daoust to prepare the implementation report for the CR of MWABP [1]
15:40:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/19-bpwg-irc#T14-55-49
15:40:56 <francois> zakim, bye
15:40:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #bpwg