IRC log of svg on 2010-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:00:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:00:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to
20:00:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
20:00:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:00:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()3:00PM already started
20:00:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:35 [trackbot]
Date: 14 January 2010
20:00:47 [Zakim]
20:01:51 [Zakim]
20:01:58 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:01:58 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:02:51 [ed]
20:03:09 [ed]
20:03:26 [ed]
agenda+ css/svg tf
20:04:29 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #svg
20:04:34 [ed]
agenda+ svgwg blog
20:07:04 [ed]
agenda+ f2f belgium update
20:09:00 [Zakim]
20:09:11 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:09:11 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:09:20 [Zakim]
20:09:50 [ed]
PD: may 24 is a holiday
20:10:00 [ed]
...public holiday, office closed
20:10:30 [ChrisL]
belgium public holidays
20:10:32 [anthony]
scribe: anthony
20:10:39 [anthony]
chair: Erik
20:10:57 [ed]
topic: brussels f2f
20:10:58 [anthony]
Topic: F2F dates
20:11:13 [anthony]
DS: I'd like to have a F2F at MS
20:11:22 [anthony]
PD: Same
20:11:27 [anthony]
... except for that Monday
20:11:30 [ChrisL]
24 May Whit Monday.
20:11:45 [anthony]
... I checked on 24th - 26th
20:12:39 [anthony]
CL: Take Thursday, Friday
20:12:43 [anthony]
... then have the Monday off
20:13:01 [anthony]
... so 4 day meeting
20:13:08 [anthony]
... but a break in the middle
20:13:16 [anthony]
... it's already a 7 day stretch
20:13:23 [anthony]
... so we do need a break
20:13:50 [anthony]
... then the next meeting after that would be the spill over meeting
20:14:09 [anthony]
DS: What about having the F2F after LGM
20:14:36 [anthony]
CL: Might be a bit tired with all those days in a row
20:14:51 [anthony]
... could do Tue, Wed
20:14:58 [anthony]
... Thur - Sun is LGM
20:15:19 [anthony]
... then Monday is spill over meeting
20:15:51 [anthony]
... then F2F meeting
20:16:27 [anthony]
DS: Do you know if we can get in on Monday?
20:16:41 [anthony]
PD: I can't even get it on Monday
20:16:49 [ChrisL]
so I suggest tues weds 25-25 for meeting, then lgm 27-30, joint meeting mon 31, and extra days tues and weds 1-2 june?
20:17:45 [anthony]
DS: What about meeting at a hotel or the conference venue on Monday
20:18:44 [anthony]
... the 24th, then MS Tue - Wed
20:19:08 [anthony]
... then the following Monday have the open day
20:21:00 [anthony]
PD: Just to be clear May 25 - 26
20:21:19 [anthony]
DS: Have about at the most 10 people
20:22:09 [anthony]
CL: What about June 1 - 2?
20:23:00 [anthony]
PD: If rooms are still need and we can't provide space at the office
20:23:33 [anthony]
... we can arrange other things
20:23:57 [anthony]
DS: We have a lot of unfinished work. So we can organise the agenda
20:24:37 [anthony]
... so that there are topics we can discuss while PD is around
20:25:52 [anthony]
AG: DOM Summit dates?
20:25:57 [anthony]
DS: Still organising dates
20:26:46 [anthony]
... we could sneak in a one day web TP
20:26:56 [anthony]
... suggested by Fantasai
20:27:14 [ChrisL]
unconference was her suggestion
20:27:55 [ed]
20:28:07 [ed]
20:28:47 [anthony]
Topic: Update on remaining actions
20:29:03 [anthony]
ED: Want to see if anyone wants to take action of JWatt
20:29:11 [anthony]
... back porting text
20:29:17 [anthony]
CL: I'm already moving some stuff
20:29:26 [anthony]
... still working on the spec atm
20:30:34 [anthony]
PD: Is it shifting features back?
20:30:39 [anthony]
CL: No just clarifications
20:30:44 [anthony]
... can't add new features
20:31:17 [anthony]
Topic: Remove child in <use> email question
20:31:30 [anthony]
PD: We weren't sure what the right behaviour was
20:31:46 [anthony]
... inconsistent rendering
20:32:02 [anthony]
DS: If the use is referencing an element and you remove that element
20:32:12 [anthony]
... then the use element stays in the DOM
20:32:17 [anthony]
... but it doesn't rendering
20:32:53 [anthony]
PD: Is it helpful for me to say where we find these problems on the list?
20:32:57 [Zakim]
20:33:21 [Zakim]
20:33:34 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:33:34 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:34:03 [anthony]
DS: Yes please post them to the public list
20:34:13 [patrickd]
patrickd has joined #svg
20:34:16 [anthony]
... we can work with the IG to make tests
20:34:34 [anthony]
... in some cases these problems are due to ambiguities in the spec
20:34:42 [anthony]
... in which case we have to make an errata
20:35:15 [anthony]
PD: I think in the case of that <use> we were looking at what Safari did
20:35:37 [anthony]
ED: Any inconsistency you find is good for the IG. Helps them make torture tests
20:35:55 [ed]
20:36:21 [anthony]
Topic: Error Handling
20:37:26 [ChrisL]
this was fixed in tiny1.2
20:37:33 [anthony]
PD: We just noticed that the error processing was clear about processing non-svg elements
20:38:05 [anthony]
DS: You could have an element with a circle nested in it
20:38:12 [anthony]
... the element doesn't render by the circle does
20:38:29 [anthony]
PD: Should that clarification go in?
20:38:37 [anthony]
DS: We should issue an errata for that one
20:38:56 [anthony]
ED: Although SVG 1.1 has the halt and show a problem feature
20:39:13 [anthony]
DS: This is a validity error
20:39:21 [anthony]
... not a well formness error
20:39:25 [ed]
s/show a problem feature/show a highly perceivable indication of error thing/
20:39:43 [anthony]
CL: If it's well formness it has to halt where you're up to
20:40:05 [anthony]
... Tiny 1.2 is more clear about validity errors
20:42:10 [shepazu]
<line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" stroke-width="10" stroke="black"/>
20:42:11 [shepazu]
<line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" style="stroke-width: 10; stroke: black;"/>
20:42:30 [ed]
data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns=""><line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" style="stroke-width: 10; stroke: black;"/></svg>
20:42:58 [anthony]
ED: This data line will show a 10 pixel stroke
20:43:16 [anthony]
... my guess is if we introduce SVG only properties they will have querks
20:43:27 [ed]
20:44:13 [anthony]
CL: Try out with 'font-size'
20:44:28 [anthony]
ED: With font-size it makes a difference
20:44:46 [ed]
data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns=""><line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" style="stroke-width: 10; stroke: black;"/><text y="100" style="font-size:30px">with px unit</text><text y="200" style="font-size:30">no unit</text></svg>
20:44:58 [anthony]
CL: From a user perspective it's totally broken
20:45:05 [anthony]
DS: So what should be the behaviour?
20:45:21 [anthony]
ED: So in this case Safari seems to render the unit of the same size
20:45:35 [anthony]
... Safari and Opera discard the value
20:45:47 [anthony]
DS: We should talk with CSS about this
20:45:53 [anthony]
CL: We've started too
20:46:15 [anthony]
... if it's CSS, SVG has to use the CSS rules
20:46:33 [anthony]
... but if it's SVG we get to say how it works
20:47:04 [anthony]
DS: We might consider for consistency sake, that our properties need units
20:47:10 [anthony]
... or getting them to shift
20:47:16 [anthony]
CL: Well they wont shift
20:47:25 [anthony]
... and there are things that don't have units
20:47:31 [anthony]
... the idea of SVG is it's scalable
20:48:26 [anthony]
Topic: Gradient investigation
20:48:33 [anthony]
AG: Still needs to be done
20:48:36 [ed]
Zakim, take up agendum 2
20:48:36 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "css/svg tf" taken up [from ed]
20:48:51 [anthony]
DS: I think the next thing to do is ask them if they want to do it
20:49:00 [anthony]
ED: Any other input for areas of coordination
20:49:21 [anthony]
... otherwise I'll take an action to send the email we've been working on CSS
20:49:36 [anthony]
... email the group, cc the chairs and the contacts
20:50:32 [anthony]
Erik to Send the email about CSS and SVG Task Force to the CSS Working Group
20:50:45 [anthony]
ACTION: Erik to Send the email about CSS and SVG Task Force to the CSS Working Group
20:50:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2713 - Send the email about CSS and SVG Task Force to the CSS Working Group [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-01-21].
20:51:06 [ed]
Zakim, take up agendum 3
20:51:06 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "svgwg blog" taken up [from ed]
20:51:25 [anthony]
DS: The CSS WG has a blog that they put a lot of things on
20:51:30 [anthony]
... summary of minutes
20:51:43 [anthony]
... I thought it might be good for us to do something like that as well
20:52:00 [anthony]
... I made a blog of our own to do something similar
20:52:08 [anthony]
... we can't have comments enabled on it
20:52:12 [anthony]
... because the software is old
20:52:23 [anthony]
... and it doesn't have spam filtering
20:53:04 [anthony]
... another thing that the CSS WG has is a Twitter account
20:53:25 [anthony]
... so I made an SVG WG Twitter account
20:54:26 [anthony]
... so Chris, Erik, Cameron, Doug have account name and passwords
20:55:05 [anthony]
... if the rest you want to post something that is group related
20:55:10 [anthony]
... please let me know
20:56:35 [anthony]
CL: I just tried testing the working group blog by posting a comment
20:56:41 [anthony]
... and it didn't post a comment
21:04:57 [Zakim]
21:05:07 [Zakim]
21:05:13 [Zakim]
21:05:22 [Zakim]
21:05:26 [Zakim]
21:05:28 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()3:00PM has ended
21:05:29 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, anthony, ChrisL
21:05:42 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
21:05:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #SVG
21:05:52 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:05:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate anthony