20:00:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
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20:00:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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20:00:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:00:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()3:00PM already started
20:00:35 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:35 <trackbot> Date: 14 January 2010
20:00:47 <Zakim> +Shepazu
20:01:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:01:58 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:01:58 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:02:51 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jan/0041.html
20:03:09 <ed> agenda+ http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/0013.html
20:03:26 <ed> agenda+ css/svg tf
20:04:29 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
20:04:34 <ed> agenda+ svgwg blog
20:07:04 <ed> agenda+ f2f belgium update
20:09:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:09:11 <anthony> Zakim, [IP is me
20:09:11 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
20:09:20 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:09:50 <ed> PD: may 24 is a holiday
20:10:00 <ed> ...public holiday, office closed
20:10:30 <ChrisL> belgium public holidays http://www.worldtravelguide.net/country/30/public_holidays/Europe/Belgium.html
20:10:32 <anthony> scribe: anthony
20:10:39 <anthony> chair: Erik
20:10:57 <ed> topic: brussels f2f
20:10:58 <anthony> Topic: F2F dates
20:11:13 <anthony> DS: I'd like to have a F2F at MS
20:11:22 <anthony> PD: Same
20:11:27 <anthony> ... except for that Monday
20:11:30 <ChrisL>  24 May  Whit Monday. 
20:11:45 <anthony> ... I checked on 24th - 26th
20:12:39 <anthony> CL: Take Thursday, Friday
20:12:43 <anthony> ... then have the Monday off
20:13:01 <anthony> ... so 4 day meeting
20:13:08 <anthony> ... but a break in the middle
20:13:16 <anthony> ... it's already a 7 day stretch
20:13:23 <anthony> ... so we do need a break
20:13:50 <anthony> ... then the next meeting after that would be the spill over meeting
20:14:09 <anthony> DS: What about having the F2F after LGM
20:14:36 <anthony> CL: Might be a bit tired with all those days in a row
20:14:51 <anthony> ... could do Tue, Wed
20:14:58 <anthony> ... Thur - Sun is LGM
20:15:19 <anthony> ... then Monday is spill over meeting
20:15:51 <anthony> ... then F2F meeting
20:16:27 <anthony> DS: Do you know if we can get in on Monday?
20:16:41 <anthony> PD: I can't even get it on Monday
20:16:49 <ChrisL> so I suggest tues weds 25-25 for meeting, then lgm 27-30, joint meeting mon 31, and extra days tues and weds 1-2 june?
20:17:45 <anthony> DS: What about meeting at a hotel or the conference venue on Monday
20:18:44 <anthony> ... the 24th, then MS Tue - Wed
20:19:08 <anthony> ... then the following Monday have the open day
20:21:00 <anthony> PD: Just to be clear May 25 - 26
20:21:19 <anthony> DS: Have about at the most 10 people
20:22:09 <anthony> CL: What about June 1 - 2?
20:23:00 <anthony> PD: If rooms are still need and we can't provide space at the office
20:23:33 <anthony> ... we can arrange other things
20:23:57 <anthony> DS: We have a lot of unfinished work. So we can organise the agenda
20:24:37 <anthony> ... so that there are topics we can discuss while PD is around
20:25:52 <anthony> AG: DOM Summit dates?
20:25:57 <anthony> DS: Still organising dates
20:26:46 <anthony> ... we could sneak in a one day web TP
20:26:56 <anthony> ... suggested by Fantasai
20:27:14 <ChrisL> unconference was her suggestion
20:27:55 <ed> topic: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/0008.html
20:28:07 <ed> topic: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/0008.html
20:28:47 <anthony> Topic: Update on remaining actions
20:29:03 <anthony> ED: Want to see if anyone wants to take action of JWatt
20:29:11 <anthony> ... back porting text
20:29:17 <anthony> CL: I'm already moving some stuff
20:29:26 <anthony> ... still working on the spec atm
20:30:34 <anthony> PD: Is it shifting features back?
20:30:39 <anthony> CL: No just clarifications
20:30:44 <anthony> ... can't add new features
20:31:17 <anthony> Topic: Remove child in <use> email question
20:31:30 <anthony> PD: We weren't sure what the right behaviour was
20:31:46 <anthony> ... inconsistent rendering
20:32:02 <anthony> DS: If the use is referencing an element and you remove that element
20:32:12 <anthony> ... then the use element stays in the DOM
20:32:17 <anthony> ... but it doesn't rendering
20:32:53 <anthony> PD: Is it helpful for me to say where we find these problems on the list?
20:32:57 <Zakim> -anthony
20:33:21 <Zakim> +??P2
20:33:34 <anthony> Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:33:34 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
20:34:03 <anthony> DS: Yes please post them to the public list
20:34:13 <patrickd> patrickd has joined #svg
20:34:16 <anthony> ... we can work with the IG to make tests
20:34:34 <anthony> ... in some cases these problems are due to ambiguities in the spec
20:34:42 <anthony> ... in which case we have to make an errata
20:35:15 <anthony> PD: I think in the case of that <use> we were looking at what Safari did
20:35:37 <anthony> ED: Any inconsistency you find is good for the IG. Helps them make torture tests
20:35:55 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JanMar/0013.html
20:36:21 <anthony> Topic: Error Handling
20:37:26 <ChrisL> this was fixed in tiny1.2
20:37:33 <anthony> PD: We just noticed that the error processing was clear about processing non-svg elements
20:38:05 <anthony> DS: You could have an element with a circle nested in it
20:38:12 <anthony> ... the element doesn't render by the circle does
20:38:29 <anthony> PD: Should that clarification go in?
20:38:37 <anthony> DS: We should issue an errata for that one
20:38:56 <anthony> ED: Although SVG 1.1 has the halt and show a problem feature
20:39:13 <anthony> DS: This is a validity error
20:39:21 <anthony> ... not a well formness error
20:39:25 <ed> s/show a problem feature/show a highly perceivable indication of error thing/
20:39:43 <anthony> CL: If it's well formness it has to halt where you're up to
20:40:05 <anthony> ... Tiny 1.2 is more clear about validity errors
20:42:10 <shepazu> <line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" stroke-width="10" stroke="black"/> 
20:42:11 <shepazu> <line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" style="stroke-width: 10; stroke: black;"/> 
20:42:30 <ed> data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" style="stroke-width: 10; stroke: black;"/></svg>
20:42:58 <anthony> ED: This data line will show a 10 pixel stroke
20:43:16 <anthony> ... my guess is if we introduce SVG only properties they will have querks
20:43:27 <ed> s/querks/quirks/
20:44:13 <anthony> CL: Try out with 'font-size'
20:44:28 <anthony> ED: With font-size it makes a difference
20:44:46 <ed> data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><line x1="30" y1="10" x2="80" y2="10" style="stroke-width: 10; stroke: black;"/><text y="100" style="font-size:30px">with px unit</text><text y="200" style="font-size:30">no unit</text></svg>
20:44:58 <anthony> CL: From a user  perspective it's totally broken
20:45:05 <anthony> DS: So what should be the behaviour?
20:45:21 <anthony> ED: So in this case Safari seems to render the unit of the same size
20:45:35 <anthony> ... Safari and Opera discard the value
20:45:47 <anthony> DS: We should talk with CSS about this
20:45:53 <anthony> CL: We've started too
20:46:15 <anthony> ... if it's CSS, SVG has to use the CSS rules
20:46:33 <anthony> ... but if it's SVG we get to say how it works
20:47:04 <anthony> DS: We might consider for consistency sake, that our properties need units
20:47:10 <anthony> ... or getting them to shift
20:47:16 <anthony> CL: Well they wont shift
20:47:25 <anthony> ... and there are things that don't have units
20:47:31 <anthony> ... the idea of SVG is it's scalable
20:48:26 <anthony> Topic: Gradient investigation
20:48:33 <anthony> AG: Still needs to be done
20:48:36 <ed> Zakim, take up agendum 2
20:48:36 <Zakim> agendum 2. "css/svg tf" taken up [from ed]
20:48:51 <anthony> DS: I think the next thing to do is ask them if they want to do it
20:49:00 <anthony> ED: Any other input for areas of coordination
20:49:21 <anthony> ... otherwise I'll take an action to send the email we've been working on CSS
20:49:36 <anthony> ... email the group, cc the chairs and the contacts
20:50:32 <anthony> Erik to Send the email about CSS and SVG Task Force to the CSS Working Group 
20:50:45 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Send the email about CSS and SVG Task Force to the CSS Working Group 
20:50:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2713 - Send the email about CSS and SVG Task Force to the CSS Working Group  [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-01-21].
20:51:06 <ed> Zakim, take up agendum 3
20:51:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "svgwg blog" taken up [from ed]
20:51:25 <anthony> DS: The CSS WG has a blog that they put a lot of things on
20:51:30 <anthony> ... summary of minutes
20:51:43 <anthony> ... I thought it might be good for us to do something like that as well
20:52:00 <anthony> ... I made a blog of our own to do something similar
20:52:08 <anthony> ... we can't have comments enabled on it
20:52:12 <anthony> ... because the software is old
20:52:23 <anthony> ... and it doesn't have spam filtering
20:53:04 <anthony> ... another thing that the CSS WG has is a Twitter account
20:53:25 <anthony> ... so I made an SVG WG Twitter account
20:54:26 <anthony> ... so Chris, Erik, Cameron, Doug have account name and passwords
20:55:05 <anthony> ... if the rest you want to post something that is group related
20:55:10 <anthony> ... please let me know
20:56:35 <anthony> CL: I just tried testing the working group blog by posting a comment
20:56:41 <anthony> ... and it didn't post a comment
21:04:57 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:05:07 <Zakim> -ed
21:05:13 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:05:22 <Zakim> -Shepazu
21:05:26 <Zakim> -anthony
21:05:28 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()3:00PM has ended
21:05:29 <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, anthony, ChrisL
21:05:42 <anthony> Zakim, bye
21:05:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #SVG
21:05:52 <anthony> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:05:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/14-svg-minutes.html anthony