17:12:57 RRSAgent has joined #core 17:12:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-irc 17:13:07 RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 17:13:17 zakim, this will be I18N 17:13:17 ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 17:13:28 Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference 17:13:34 Chair: Addison Phillips 17:13:38 Scribe: Addison Phillips 17:13:43 ScribeNick: aphillip 17:14:02 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Jan/0002.html 17:14:07 Regrets: Mati 17:14:22 RRSAgent, make minutes 17:14:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-minutes.html aphillip 17:21:00 David has joined #core 17:25:52 burn has joined #core 17:26:59 I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has now started 17:27:07 +Dan_Burnett 17:27:32 Hello all 17:27:36 +Addison_Phillips 17:28:14 +[IPcaller] 17:28:20 fsasaki has joined #core 17:30:24 +??P26 17:31:16 Topic: Minutes and Agenda 17:31:34 Topic: Action Items 17:31:47 r12a has joined #core 17:31:52 all: review HTML5 (rolling action item to be reviewed weekly) 17:32:02 addison: invite representative from SSML to discuss pronunciation alphabet registry for next time 17:32:09 DONE 17:32:16 zakim, dial richard please 17:32:16 ok, r12a; the call is being made 17:32:18 +Richard 17:32:21 update draft to support option C for specifying preferences in ws-i18n 17:32:38 write a couple of simple examples of issue #3 17:32:39 DONE 17:32:52 respond on our behalf to CSS on ruby issue 17:33:03 zakim, who's here ? 17:33:03 On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, aphillip, David, felix (muted), Richard 17:33:05 On IRC I see r12a, fsasaki, burn, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip 17:33:20 Topic: Pronunciation registration (SSML) 17:33:49 dchiba has joined #core 17:34:46 +[Oracle] 17:36:13 (addison summarizes) 17:36:32 burn: spoke to ltru "back in the day" 17:36:55 ... they said "not clear what is different from LTRU tags, but might be somethign different" 17:37:07 ... effort made to not duplicate that work 17:37:36 ... some concrete examples of things that wouldn't appear in ltru's registry 17:37:39 ... one is IPA 17:38:09 ... another would be alphabets such as arcabet or worldbet, which are alphabest used in speech synthesis for many years 17:38:14 ... simplifications of IPA 17:38:38 ... additionally, we expect that there are organization (companies, univerisites,etc.) that may experiment by creating their own 17:38:44 ... and we want to enable that 17:39:17 ... these are the most concrete examples of what would appear in pronunciation registry but don't belong in bcp47 17:39:27 ... examples are for pinyin and jyutping 17:39:34 ... and only pinyin defined 17:39:45 ... but that's because that is most needed 17:39:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-minutes.html aphillip 17:40:31 burn: two tags: pinyin and pinyin2001 17:41:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010JanMar/0004.html 17:41:10 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00 17:41:53 richard: clarify two points 17:42:08 ... people might want to experiment with codes; would they registry the experiemental codes? 17:42:22 burn: depends on whether they wish to standardize the codes or not 17:42:30 ... x-code is private use 17:42:41 ... or non-x-hyphen could be registered 17:42:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-minutes.html aphillip 17:43:53 ... need for expert review to prvent stuff like registering something called "IPA" that was something else 17:44:54 richard: didn't say why not down language subtag route, so assumed that it would be easier to deprecate items in this registry? 17:45:17 burn: language subtag registry contains mostly broad consensus subtags 17:45:31 ... whereas our registry might have a very small audience 17:46:51 zh-p-pinyin2001 17:47:11 und-p-ipa 17:47:58 burn: couldn't use the pl alphabet separately 17:48:14 ... we provide only alphabet for production... purely for production 17:48:31 ... codes could be used by only a single TTS vendor 17:48:45 .... most TTS systems are either diphone or triphone systems 17:49:49 ... if I wanted to make my complete set of underlying models available, I might also want to register it 17:49:56 ... so that authors could access it 17:50:24 ... not convinced that's the best use, but people might have different opinions 17:50:30 ... goal is strictly pronunciation 17:51:03 burn: language subtag registry more focused on understanding 17:52:39 q+ 17:53:05 ack fsasaki 17:53:32 fsasaki: various hepburn subtags registered 17:53:36 ... might be overlap? 17:53:53 ... also, impose a burden on two registries to coordinate their work? 17:54:25 ... might coordinate registrations to avoid having different strings/tags for the same purpose 17:55:13 http://rishida.net/utils/subtags/index.php?find=hepburn&submit=Find 17:55:41 burn: (clarify) if you want to say "if in ltru then not permitted in pronunciation", then have a real problem 17:56:33 fsasaki: did not want to imply that, but just avoid having different subtags in each registry for the same purpose 17:57:28 http://rishida.net/utils/subtags/index.php?find=pinyin&submit=Find 17:58:23 burn: also, need a specific list of what is supported/not supported 17:58:39 ... not a broad list of subtags of which some might apply 17:59:07 ... reviewer could object to "that's not enough detail for me to know what that means" 18:07:12 addison: maybe have it both ways--both extensino and standalone registry? 18:07:35 s/extensino /extension / 18:08:46 tlh-Cyrl-AQ-hepburn 18:11:38 http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47#section-3.7 18:14:34 burn: would you be comfortable with this if we did the extension? need a general feeling 18:15:48 addison: I agree; I think you're doing something different and it might be useful to also have a 'p' extension 18:16:01 richard: both politically and practically useful, I think 18:16:10 +1 18:16:19 burn: may ask of you to join our group when presenting 18:16:51 addison: I'd be happy to come help you 18:17:01 zakim, who's making noise ? 18:17:12 r12a, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dan_Burnett (43%), aphillip (24%), David (80%) 18:17:23 zakim, mute David 18:17:23 David should now be muted 18:19:06 -Dan_Burnett 18:19:23 Topic: HTML ISSUE-88 content-language-multiple 18:19:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2009OctDec/0106.html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010JanMar/0002.html http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Htmlissue88 18:19:49 richard: we've talked about this before 18:20:08 ... html5 currently says that content-language pragme (i.e. META) 18:20:13 ... is limited to one language 18:20:24 ... which is inconsistent with previous 18:20:55 ... we talked at TPAC, richard wrote a chagne proposal based on our conversation with Hixie 18:21:06 ... proposal basically says comma-separated list 18:21:33 ... if no lang attribute, then the tag could be used to infer document language, as long as it only has one language 18:21:43 ... if more than one language then you can't infer the document processing language 18:21:51 ... and then you can look at http header 18:21:56 ... similarly 18:22:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-minutes.html aphillip 18:22:26 richard: so what we have there is a precendence path 18:22:38 lang attribute -> meta -> http header 18:23:23 chair: any opposed to this text? 18:23:46 none opposed 18:23:49 addison: looks good to me 18:24:46 addison: concern about harmonizing terminology 18:24:54 richard: document wide default language 18:25:08 ... propose to replace with language declaration pragma 18:25:17 ...or maybe pragma language 18:26:29 s/pragme/pragma/ 18:30:35 addison: I like this and like the text you've proposed 18:31:11 chair: (resolved) go forth and promote this on our behalf 18:31:29 Topic: AOB? 18:31:57 -David 18:31:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-minutes.html aphillip 18:32:02 -aphillip 18:32:07 -[Oracle] 18:32:09 -Richard 18:32:09 -felix 18:32:11 I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has ended 18:32:12 Attendees were Dan_Burnett, aphillip, David, felix, Richard, [Oracle] 18:33:20 i have made two changes to http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Htmlissue88#Impact 18:40:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-core-minutes.html aphillip 18:40:25 zakim, bye 18:40:25 Zakim has left #core 19:21:27 r12a has left #core