IRC log of svg on 2010-01-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:02:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:02:33 [RRSAgent]
logging to
20:02:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:02:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
20:02:37 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:02:37 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()3:00PM already started
20:02:38 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:02:38 [trackbot]
Date: 11 January 2010
20:02:39 [shepazu]
zakim, code?
20:02:39 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7841 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), shepazu
20:02:39 [ChrisL]
trackbot, start telcon
20:02:42 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:02:46 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:02:46 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()3:00PM already started
20:02:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:02:51 [trackbot]
Date: 11 January 2010
20:02:55 [Zakim]
20:03:08 [Zakim]
20:03:38 [Zakim]
20:03:39 [jwatt]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
20:03:39 [Zakim]
+jwatt; got it
20:03:53 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
20:03:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Shepazu, jwatt, ChrisL
20:03:54 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, jwatt, ChrisL, ed, anthony, karl, shepazu, trackbot, ed_work
20:04:34 [ed]
Zakim, passcode?
20:04:34 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7841 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), ed
20:05:04 [Zakim]
20:05:16 [ed]
Zakim, ??P12 is me
20:05:16 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:08:57 [patrick]
patrick has joined #svg
20:09:14 [jwatt]
welcome, patrick
20:09:29 [Zakim]
20:09:30 [patrick]
thanks ;) a little slow today
20:09:59 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
20:09:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Shepazu, jwatt, ChrisL, ed, ??P14
20:10:00 [anthony]
zakim, ??P14 is me
20:10:01 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:10:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see patrick, Zakim, RRSAgent, jwatt, ChrisL, ed, anthony, karl, shepazu, trackbot, ed_work
20:10:10 [jwatt]
no worries, it takes a little time to get up to speed
20:10:18 [ChrisL]
zakim, pick a victim
20:10:18 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose anthony
20:10:39 [anthony]
Scribe: anthony
20:10:45 [anthony]
Chair: Eric
20:11:03 [anthony]
20:11:14 [anthony]
Topic: Up coming F2F
20:11:15 [ed]
20:11:34 [eseidel]
eseidel has joined #svg
20:11:44 [ed]
20:11:59 [anthony]
DS: Adding conferences
20:12:06 [anthony]
... started but didn't finish
20:12:17 [anthony]
ED: The minutes from last teclon should tell us the same thing
20:12:41 [anthony]
DS: I'm adding some existing meetings we know about
20:13:28 [anthony]
... I sent out emails about SVG DOM API summit
20:13:34 [anthony]
... there was definite interest
20:14:26 [anthony]
... I spoke to Chris Wilson (MS), Brad N (Google), Jeff Schiller, Alex Rustle (Dojo)
20:14:48 [anthony]
... emailed some people privately
20:15:10 [anthony]
... I said we'd like to have it in the valley probably in April
20:16:02 [anthony]
CL: Need 8 weeks notice for a work shop
20:16:11 [anthony]
DS: Is this applicable for a workshop?
20:16:17 [anthony]
CL: Yes, seems appropriate for one
20:16:46 [anthony]
AG: I cannot make late April, has to be early April
20:17:56 [anthony]
DS: I'm going to shoot for early April then it that suits everyone
20:18:06 [anthony]
... Chris do you know when the CSS Group meeting?
20:18:32 [anthony]
CL: 29th - 31st March
20:18:44 [anthony]
... Hosted by Apple
20:18:44 [ChrisL]
20:19:23 [anthony]
CL: Fonts WG (tentative) 1st - 2nd April
20:20:01 [anthony]
... also in California
20:20:13 [shepazu]
20:20:54 [anthony]
DS: Are we on planning on having a F2F before then?
20:22:00 [anthony]
... Then there is SVG Open, where we've had a F2F
20:22:17 [ChrisL]
aug 30 sep 2
20:22:52 [ChrisL]
in Paris
20:23:17 [anthony]
DS: Where is TPAC?
20:23:24 [anthony]
... there's two
20:23:27 [anthony]
... the AC meeting
20:23:30 [anthony]
... then TPAC
20:23:43 [anthony]
CL: AC meeting is 21st - 23rd March
20:23:49 [ChrisL]
20:24:19 [anthony]
CL: Unsure about TPAC because it only links to past
20:24:41 [anthony]
DS: I know it is going to be France somewhere in the Fall
20:25:01 [anthony]
... I've updated the page with the things we need to think about
20:25:12 [anthony]
... members here on the group don't have to attend AC meeting
20:26:33 [anthony]
... The mini TPAC might not happen this here
20:27:10 [ChrisL]
seems to me we should aim for one in Belgium in may for LGM, and one in Paris in August /Sept for SVG Open
20:27:12 [anthony]
s/this here/this year/
20:27:31 [anthony]
DS: The DOM Summit is more urgent than a mini TPAC
20:28:05 [anthony]
... the DOM Summit will be F2F 1
20:29:14 [anthony]
... we can have a the F2F, 1 day after the Summit or before
20:29:30 [anthony]
CL: Are people happy to come to Nice, I can probably host
20:30:10 [anthony]
... or Brussels if we can find a place to host
20:30:31 [anthony]
DS: My preference is to have it in Brussels
20:32:00 [anthony]
... we can probably talk to the people organising LGM
20:32:17 [anthony]
CL: They have a commercial space
20:32:32 [anthony]
... might cost them money to have it for a few more days
20:32:57 [anthony]
DS: Who is hosting?
20:33:17 [anthony]
CL: Constant
20:33:27 [ChrisL]
ACTION Chris lo look into f2f hosting in Brussels
20:33:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2710 - Lo look into f2f hosting in Brussels [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-01-18].
20:33:49 [anthony]
DS: I will also look for W3C members who are also in Belgium
20:34:05 [ChrisL]
20:34:05 [anthony]
PD: I think we have a space out there
20:34:10 [anthony]
... or something near there
20:34:46 [anthony]
... you guys let me know where you want to go
20:34:50 [anthony]
... and I'll look into it
20:35:11 [anthony]
ED: What dates are we talking about exactly?
20:35:25 [anthony]
PD: Send me some details and I'll hunt something down
20:35:55 [shepazu]
# Libre Graphic Meeting: 27-30 May 2010, Brussels, Belgium
20:36:19 [shepazu]
20:36:24 [anthony]
DS: Does anyone have any preference about having the F2F before or after the Libre Graphics Meeting?
20:37:50 [anthony]
CL: Should let LGM know about this
20:37:56 [anthony]
... could have an open day
20:38:10 [anthony]
DS: We could have discussions about gradient type features
20:38:46 [anthony]
ED: Before LGM would be better for me
20:39:14 [anthony]
DS: LGM is very Print centric
20:39:18 [anthony]
... Leonard and another Adobe person will be there
20:39:27 [ChrisL]
20:40:28 [anthony]
... having someone from Scibus and Adobe working with us on the Print related stuff would be nice
20:40:58 [anthony]
AG: I don't have any preference to either side
20:41:11 [anthony]
ED: How many days do you think we need? Just 3 days
20:41:42 [anthony]
AG: I disagree, I don't think 3 days will be enough
20:42:09 [anthony]
... because we'll only have 1 day for the DOM Summit and we wont have had any other F2F before then
20:43:32 [anthony]
DS: I have a slight preference for having the F2F after
20:43:44 [anthony]
... so we digest what learn at LGM
20:43:52 [ChrisL]
I have a slight preference for before :)
20:44:11 [anthony]
ED: we could split the F2F
20:44:39 [anthony]
CL: We'd be looking at Monday 24th to Wednesday 26th, May
20:45:29 [anthony]
AG: Good idea to have a day break before the conference
20:45:38 [anthony]
... then have a 2 day meeting after LGM
20:46:32 [anthony]
ED: Are ok with this?
20:46:43 [anthony]
PD: I'll see if I can confirm this
20:46:58 [anthony]
ED: Doug you will decide the days of DOM Summit
20:47:15 [anthony]
DS: But it will be early April
20:47:22 [anthony]
CL: What about the one along side SVG Open?
20:47:29 [anthony]
... should we contact the organisers
20:47:39 [anthony]
... so people can host us there?
20:47:56 [anthony]
DS: I'm sure we can find people in Paris
20:48:42 [anthony]
... Robin B and I will sit down next week and edit last week
20:48:48 [anthony]
CL: I'd like to join you guys on that
20:49:45 [anthony]
Topic: Conflicting Actions
20:49:53 [anthony]
20:49:53 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
20:50:00 [ed]
20:50:05 [ed]
20:50:11 [anthony]
20:50:11 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
20:50:29 [anthony]
20:50:29 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
20:50:40 [anthony]
20:50:40 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
20:50:50 [anthony]
ED: Both pending review
20:51:02 [anthony]
... seem to be covering the samething
20:51:23 [ChrisL]
20:51:23 [ChrisL]
Propose wording for the clip path pointer-events erratum and masking/compositing module change
20:51:34 [ChrisL]
20:51:34 [ChrisL]
Propose revised wording for the errata item "Capturing pointer-events with a zero opacity mask" to clarify it with clip-path
20:52:10 [anthony]
CL: We started talking about this but then needed JWatt here
20:52:23 [anthony]
ED: Ok they are not exactly the same
20:52:30 [anthony]
... one is masking one is clipping
20:52:53 [anthony]
CL: It was originally on Doug
20:53:13 [anthony]
... then was transferred to JWatt
20:53:39 [anthony]
JW: I'm struggling to recall the details of this
20:53:58 [anthony]
DS: JWatt you thought that the values of pointer events were confusing with regards
20:54:01 [anthony]
... to visibility
20:54:05 [anthony]
... and clip paths
20:54:16 [anthony]
... and you didn't want to introduce anything on that same model
20:54:25 [anthony]
... we still didn't have these resolved
20:54:36 [anthony]
... but you had intended coming up with something new
20:54:57 [anthony]
JW: My preference was to leave SVG 1.1 as is and propose something to 2.0
20:55:18 [anthony]
DS: I was thinking state, this is not defined in 1.1 and say that it will be defined later
20:55:36 [anthony]
... it's not very useful for authors but will speed up the Errata
20:55:50 [ed]
20:55:54 [anthony]
ED: Just wondering if we have wording in the 2nd Edition spec already
20:56:12 [anthony]
... This is the most current publish
20:56:47 [anthony]
JW: We talked about this quite a lot at Mountain View F2F 2009
20:57:03 [anthony]
... none of the minutes are linked to the actions
20:57:21 [ed]
20:57:31 [anthony]
ED: There does seem to be some new wording
20:57:43 [anthony]
... we have two new paragraphs stating something about clip paths and masks
20:57:53 [anthony]
... I don't see anything about introducing new key words
20:57:59 [anthony]
... or new behaviour key words
20:58:05 [anthony]
JW: That was just an idea
20:58:21 [anthony]
ED: Then it sort of sounds like this has already been done
20:58:39 [anthony]
... and we can raise an issue for the next major version
20:59:07 [anthony]
AG: Is there enough wording for authors?
20:59:21 [anthony]
DS: Implementers I'm concerned about as well
20:59:39 [anthony]
... don't want loose wording which is implemented a certain way
20:59:44 [anthony]
... then we change it in 2.0
20:59:55 [anthony]
JW: I need to look at this
21:00:02 [anthony]
... I can read through it by next week
21:00:25 [anthony]
... I need to come back with a statement about what we should
21:00:37 [anthony]
... do
21:01:37 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is noisy?
21:01:48 [Zakim]
ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (43%), jwatt (29%), ed (19%)
21:02:44 [anthony]
ED: We should probably talk about the gradient thing at some point
21:03:14 [anthony]
CL: I read through it, but I didn't see any consensus
21:03:25 [anthony]
... we should decide what makes the most sense
21:03:33 [anthony]
... and what has the least impact
21:03:49 [anthony]
DS: I think no matter what we decide people will have to change
21:03:58 [anthony]
CL: We should see what content is out there
21:04:14 [anthony]
... as in a bunch of content relying on something
21:04:29 [anthony]
... or an authoring spitting out something in particular
21:07:02 [anthony]
ACTION: Anthony to Test the gradient output of authoring tools and report back
21:07:02 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2711 - Test the gradient output of authoring tools and report back [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-01-18].
21:08:21 [anthony]
Topic: Charter
21:08:35 [shepazu] <- draft
21:09:12 [anthony]
CL: Did you make that using the charter generator?
21:09:18 [anthony]
DS: I did
21:10:07 [anthony]
... the charter is more about where we are expanding into
21:10:31 [anthony]
... it includes a bit about the task force
21:10:52 [anthony]
... we got interest from one of the guys from Apple who has interest in Multi Media stuff
21:11:12 [ChrisL]
Jack Jansen
21:11:45 [anthony]
... Jack Jansen and I talked about a smaller subset of the SMIL spec
21:11:51 [anthony]
... that CSS and SVG are interested in
21:12:30 [anthony]
... there were some concerns about the level that these interactions where occurring
21:12:50 [anthony]
... what do you guys think about taking on a new animation spec that we would reference instead of SMIL?
21:13:04 [anthony]
PD: Is the intent to cross more technologies than SVG?
21:13:15 [anthony]
21:13:36 [anthony]
CL: Is already looking for that sort of model. Sometimes it is because the SMIL model is not the best
21:13:59 [anthony]
... Jack knows SMIL very well and he'd be very good to have on board
21:14:19 [anthony]
DS: Vincent Hardy may also participate
21:14:48 [anthony]
DS: This would be more focused on making things easier
21:14:57 [anthony]
... I'm planning on putting that in the charter
21:15:05 [anthony]
... just wanted you guys to know about it first
21:15:13 [anthony]
... doesn't mean we have to work on it
21:15:16 [anthony]
... just means we can
21:16:17 [anthony]
... I haven't completed the charter
21:16:29 [anthony]
... still a working progress so if you have any comments on it
21:16:36 [anthony]
... feel free to send them to me
21:16:59 [anthony]
... I'm basically saying SVG has to evolve but maintain some backwards compatibility
21:17:18 [anthony]
... and fixing some things from the past
21:19:08 [anthony]
ED: For the DOM Summit do we have a summary of what we want to change
21:19:19 [shepazu]
21:19:51 [anthony]
DS: I'd really like you guys to start identifying specific problems
21:19:57 [anthony]
... that you have with the DOM
21:20:08 [anthony]
... and call them out in the work shop
21:20:20 [anthony]
... and have people to come to the table with proposals
21:20:41 [anthony]
... either spec-ed out or worded so it can be put into a spec
21:20:54 [anthony]
... and possibly some sort of library
21:21:23 [anthony]
... my proposal is all the suggestions from the DOM API discussions we were having
21:21:42 [anthony]
... I will advice people to make position papers
21:22:30 [anthony]
... structurally should we review papers before the conference?
21:22:36 [anthony]
CL: Would be a good idea
21:22:44 [anthony]
DS: I was thinking of having a morning session
21:22:51 [anthony]
... to present papers
21:23:00 [anthony]
... then the other 2 days hashing stuff out
21:23:19 [anthony]
AG: Do all attendees need to present a paper?
21:23:33 [anthony]
DS: No. I think it would be good though if the SVG WG put together a proposal
21:24:02 [anthony]
... the WG as a whole will present a position paper
21:24:55 [ed]
ACTION: ed to review the SVG DOM and make notes on
21:24:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2712 - Review the SVG DOM and make notes on [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-01-18].
21:25:29 [anthony]
DS: People on the WG are welcome to put forward position papers
21:25:36 [anthony]
... but you don't have to
21:26:58 [anthony]
PD: One thing we did when we were working with CSS we committed a thousands of conformance tests. I was wondering how to go about doing that for this working group
21:27:24 [anthony]
CL: It depends on if they are going to added
21:27:43 [anthony]
21:27:57 [anthony]
CL: We have notes on how to add tests
21:28:01 [anthony]
... and we have a template
21:28:05 [anthony]
... for the tests
21:28:22 [ChrisL]
we have a methodology fro tracking test maturity so the suite can have newly added stuff and reviewed stuff all at once
21:28:38 [anthony]
DS: JWatt and I were talking about a testing framework were people from the public can also help review the tests
21:28:49 [ChrisL]
21:29:07 [anthony]
JW: Patrick do you have a bunch of tests you want to move to the test suite or is this hypothetical?
21:29:19 [ChrisL]
I'd rather have tests submitted as they arise rather than in bulk
21:29:20 [anthony]
... we should use the framework that Doug was talking about
21:29:40 [anthony]
DS: Also it is intended for use with all the browser specifications
21:29:42 [anthony]
... not just SVG
21:29:59 [anthony]
... the existing stuff does work. In the short term we could use that
21:30:02 [anthony]
... but in the long term
21:30:23 [anthony]
... we can transition to the framework
21:30:56 [Zakim]
21:30:57 [Zakim]
21:30:58 [Zakim]
21:31:00 [Zakim]
21:31:04 [Zakim]
21:31:09 [Zakim]
21:31:10 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()3:00PM has ended
21:31:11 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], Shepazu, ChrisL, jwatt, ed, anthony
21:31:15 [anthony]
Zakim, bye
21:31:15 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #SVG
21:31:24 [anthony]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:31:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate anthony
21:34:53 [eseidel_]
eseidel_ has joined #svg
22:06:53 [jwatt]
jwatt has joined #svg
23:25:26 [eseidel]
eseidel has joined #svg