15:06:29 RRSAgent has joined #rdfa 15:06:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc 15:06:33 zakim, this will be rdfa 15:06:35 ok, manu; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM scheduled to start in 54 minutes 15:07:01 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary 15:07:10 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html 15:07:33 Present: Manu_Sporny, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron, Steven_Pemberton 15:07:39 Scribe: Manu Sporny 15:07:42 scribenick: manu 15:07:57 rrsagent, make logs public 15:08:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:08:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html manu 15:10:16 Chair: Manu Sporny 15:10:46 Meeting: RDFa in XHTML Task Force 15:11:51 Steven has joined #rdfa 15:51:27 ShaneM has joined #rdfa 15:58:47 SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started 15:58:54 +??P21 15:58:58 zakim, I am ??P21 15:58:58 +manu; got it 15:59:01 zakim, dial ivan-voip 15:59:01 ok, ivan; the call is being made 15:59:03 +Ivan 16:00:25 +ShaneM 16:04:35 Topic: Action Items 16:04:47 ACTION: Mark to ask Shane to generate URI Everywhere additions to XHTML+RDFa spec. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] 16:04:49 -- done 16:05:14 ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] 16:05:16 -- continues 16:05:21 ACTION: Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] 16:05:23 -- continues 16:05:31 ACTION: Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] 16:05:33 -- continues 16:05:39 ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] 16:05:41 -- continues 16:05:46 zakim, dial steven-617 16:05:47 ok, Steven; the call is being made 16:05:47 +Steven 16:05:48 ACTION: Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! 16:05:50 -- continues 16:05:56 ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] 16:05:58 -- done 16:06:13 zakim, who is on the phone 16:06:15 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Steven 16:06:21 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:06:26 Shane: Mark's URIs Everywhere proposal brought up something interesting - calling this stuff URIorCURIE 16:06:32 Shane: There are two ways we can go here 16:06:33 On the phone I see manu, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven 16:07:27 Shane: We can say: These properties take CURIEs, or these properties take URIs or CURIEs. 16:07:42 Shane: If what we're trying to do is convince people that they can use URIs, we should leave it alone. 16:08:02 Ivan: For people who have an abstract mind, it would be fine to use CURIEs... 16:08:11 zakim, mute me 16:08:11 Steven should now be muted 16:08:19 Ivan: However, if you take somebody coming from the outside, they might not understand that you can use URIs. 16:08:33 ack me 16:08:36 Ivan: If we use CURIEorURI then the mapping is more clear. 16:08:54 Steven: Since CURIE means compact URI, surely the reason we use it is because it can be compact, but it doesn't need to be. 16:09:14 Shane: It's implemented the way Mark said. 16:09:40 Shane: Permissions on the directory are messed up so I can't upload the document. 16:10:05 Steven: I tried to fix it... it's reported and being worked on. 16:11:29 Topic: RDFa WG charter review 16:11:48 Ivan: We received 8 reviews - good number of reviews (considering christmas and new years) 16:11:55 Ivan: 7 say go ahead with the charter. 16:12:43 Ivan: 1 gave a comment that was optional. 16:12:51 Ivan: all 8 said that they would participate, which is very good. 16:13:01 Ivan: Deadline is Jan 26th. 16:13:16 Ivan: We should ask for reviews around the 10th-15th. 16:15:29 Ivan: We might still get a comment in from somebody that would object. 16:17:13 Topic: RDFa 1.1 API 16:18:45 Manu: We want to gather some general requirements. 16:19:17 Manu: We want to ensure that it is very simple - 2-5 method calls instead of 20-30 16:19:32 Ivan: Keep in mind that it should integrate with an RDF API in the future. 16:19:44 Manu: We should make sure that it is fully implementable in pure Javascript. 16:20:11 Manu: We also should ensure that it's implementable natively in the browser. 16:20:55 Ivan: I should be able to serialize from RDFa to a triplestore. 16:24:55 Manu: I can volunteer to start editing the RDFa 1.1 API... maybe hand it off to somebody else in the future. 16:25:33 Shane: We should move away from XHTML-way of working on documents to the W3C way of working on documents. 16:26:33 Ivan: We are looking at new ways of editing the spec... so we should discuss that at some time. 16:26:36 See http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/test-spec/index.html 16:26:54 Uses js to create W3 format 16:27:14 Ivan: SPARQL - all editors have CVS access and can edit the document. Then there is this new ReSpec stuff. 16:27:35 Ivan: We may want to use CVS and some sort of editorial format. 16:28:14 Shane: The way the XHTML WG has done it for years has a great deal of legacy stuff - I care about the result, so I have some requirements on what such a system should produce. 16:28:38 Shane: Some of those requirements come from Ian Jacobs. Perhaps I should write down what some of my requirements are. 16:29:12 Shane: For example, TOCs generated automatically, references cross-checked, PDFs automatically produced - the more work the publication framework does, the easier the editors life. 16:29:35 zakim, mute me 16:29:35 Steven should now be muted 16:29:46 Ivan: The XML editorial stuff that the SPARQL people use takes care of a good bit of this stuff. 16:29:53 Ivan: The down-side is that you have to edit XML. 16:30:43 Ivan: Any browser can print to PDF, right? 16:31:06 Shane: Yes, but we want to generate browseable/usable PDFs - TOCs that are linked to, etc. 16:32:13 http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/rdfa-syntax.pdf 16:34:00 Ivan: There is one more requirement that I would have, which is that it should not depend too much on some complex pipeline of programs. 16:34:04 It's 48 pages if I print the HTML version 16:34:10 Ivan: I should be able to edit and publish from my local machine. 16:34:38 I like editing in Amaya 16:35:00 Ivan: We shouldn't have to depend on one person or one type of platform. 16:35:28 Shane: With XHTML2 specs - the documents were written in HTML, but it's a hybrid - there are additional elements that you can use to annotate things. 16:36:07 Shane: We addressed this by giving CVS access to everyone, but when you checked it in, the tool would run on the checked in source code. 16:37:45 Manu: There is also the anolis toolchain - which is pretty useful 16:38:20 Manu: That is what is used to generate HTML+RDFa. 16:38:51 Shane: The life of the document often exceeds the time the editor spends editing the spec. 16:38:56 Ivan: So, how should we proceed. 16:43:15 Manu: Maybe we should be able to try these systems out. 16:43:53 -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/ReSpec.js/documentation.html this is the robin berjon one 16:44:01 Ivan: I want to make sure this is as easy as possible. 16:46:01 A lot of what we have done in the past is creating 'elements' to abstract common concepts so that we get consistent styling 16:46:32 So "aref" is a reference to an attribute. 'eref' is a reference to am element. 16:47:35 Manu: Right, but we have to make sure that there is a certain level of competence as well. 16:48:32 Manu: Anolis does a great deal of what we're talking about. 16:48:45 Ivan: ReSpec looks very interesting as well. 16:49:47 Manu: Sounds like we don't want to use XMLSpec, moving forward. 16:49:55 Ivan: I think we should look at XMLSpec as well. 16:51:51 Ivan: We should also have a WG wiki - so discussion and drafts can go on the wiki. 16:52:56 Topic: Organization for RDFa WG 16:53:19 Manu: Perhaps we should migrate rdfa.info/wiki to w3.org/wikis/rdfa ? 16:53:19 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/ 16:53:36 Ivan: I don't think that would be the best direction - rdfa.info/wiki is community-based 16:54:05 Ivan: I would prefer to have rdfa.info/wiki as a part of the wiki I mention above. 16:54:13 Ivan: I think we should have a wiki area for the Working Group 16:54:24 Ivan: and another one for the RDFa Community. 16:54:54 Ivan: When we're playing around with ideas on RDFa 1.1 - we want just the WG to work on those things. 16:55:09 ack me 16:55:20 Ivan: We should have a MediaWiki instance just for the WG. 16:57:03 Steven: Well, we already have a community setup around rdfa.info - moving it would be damaging to the community. 16:57:35 Manu: We could do some URL-rewriting on the site and not disrupt old URLs. 16:58:06 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Main_Page 16:59:16 -Steven 16:59:17 -manu 16:59:18 -ShaneM 16:59:23 -Ivan 16:59:25 SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended 16:59:26 Attendees were manu, Ivan, ShaneM, Steven 16:59:55 Present: Steven_Pemberton 17:00:51 Present: Manu_Sporny, Ivan_Herman, Shane_McCarron, Steven_Pemberton 17:01:01 Regrets: Mark_Birbeck, Ben_Adida 17:02:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:02:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-minutes.html manu 17:07:30 zakim, bye 17:07:30 Zakim has left #rdfa 17:07:33 rrsagent, bye 17:07:33 I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-actions.rdf : 17:07:33 ACTION:  Mark to ask Shane to generate URI Everywhere additions to XHTML+RDFa spec. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [1] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-04-47 17:07:33 ACTION:  Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [2] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-05-14 17:07:33 ACTION:  Manu to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [3] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-05-21 17:07:33 ACTION:  Manu to get in touch with LibXML developers about TC 142. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action09] [4] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-05-31 17:07:33 ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for @token and @prefix [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-05-39 17:07:33 ACTION:  Mark to generate spec text for pulling in external vocabulary documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/12/03-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]on07! [6] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-05-48 17:07:33 ACTION:  Manu to try and find other interested parties in RDFa WG. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [7] 17:07:33 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/01/07-rdfa-irc#T16-05-56