IRC log of sparql on 2010-01-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:11 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #sparql
15:01:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:01:15 [AndyS]
We do!
15:01:22 [AxelPolleres]
trackbot, start meeting
15:01:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 77277
15:01:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:01:27 [trackbot]
Date: 05 January 2010
15:01:30 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P4 is [Garlik]
15:01:35 [Zakim]
15:01:40 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:42 [Zakim]
I already had ??P4 as ??P4, SteveH
15:01:46 [SteveH]
Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM
15:01:54 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named '[Garlik]'
15:01:54 [MattPerry]
zakim, ??P4 is me
15:01:58 [Zakim]
I already had ??P4 as ??P4, MattPerry
15:02:04 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:05 [MattPerry]
15:02:05 [SteveH]
MattPerry, ??P4 is us
15:02:06 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:15 [MattPerry]
zakim, ??P18 is me
15:02:17 [SteveH]
...I think
15:02:20 [Zakim]
I already had ??P18 as ??P18, MattPerry
15:02:42 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has changed the topic to:
15:02:45 [Souri]
Souri has joined #sparql
15:02:48 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P4 is temporarily [Garlik]
15:02:52 [Zakim]
I already had ??P4 as ??P4, SteveH
15:03:00 [SteveH]
Zakim, P4 is [Garlik]
15:03:02 [Zakim]
sorry, SteveH, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
15:03:17 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:03:18 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
15:03:22 [AxelPolleres]
hmmm, I have some echo...
15:03:27 [sandro]
zakim, this is sparql
15:03:32 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:03:32 [LukeWM]
zakim, what's wrong with you?
15:03:34 [Zakim]
15:03:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, LukeWM.
15:03:38 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:03:38 [AlexPassant]
Zakim: ??P26 is me
15:03:42 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:03:44 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
15:03:54 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:56 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Souri (29%), Axel (59%), Ivan (11%)
15:04:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see dcharbon2, bglimm, kasei, AndyS, ??P18, Ivan, Axel, Sandro, tkoivula, Souri, AlexPassant
15:04:04 [Zakim]
15:04:11 [sandro]
What was wrong with Zakim was that no one had said "Zakim, this is sparql"
15:04:13 [SteveH]
Zakim, ??P4 is [Garlik]
15:04:13 [Zakim]
+[Garlik]; got it
15:04:19 [MattPerry]
zakim, ??P18 is me
15:04:19 [Zakim]
+MattPerry; got it
15:04:40 [LukeWM]
Zakim, Garlik has LukeWM, SteveH
15:04:40 [Zakim]
+LukeWM, SteveH; got it
15:04:45 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see dcharbon2, bglimm, kasei, AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, Axel, Sandro, tkoivula, Souri, AlexPassant, [Garlik]
15:04:48 [Zakim]
[Garlik] has LukeWM, SteveH
15:05:01 [AlexPassant]
15:05:12 [AxelPolleres]
scribe: Alex Passant
15:05:24 [AxelPolleres]
15:05:32 [AxelPolleres]
15:05:49 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: main goal is to check how far we are on the reviews
15:05:53 [AlexPassant]
... + discuss schedule
15:05:58 [AlexPassant]
topic: admin issues
15:06:03 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
15:06:14 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: minutes approval - any objections ?
15:06:21 [AlexPassant]
... minutes approved
15:06:22 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
15:06:30 [chimezie]
chimezie has joined #sparql
15:06:38 [AlexPassant]
... next meeting next week
15:06:49 [chimezie]
Zakim, passcode?
15:06:49 [Zakim]
the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.117.370.6152), chimezie
15:06:50 [AlexPassant]
... david will scribe
15:07:09 [AlexPassant]
... updates on comments ?
15:07:09 [AxelPolleres] any updates?
15:07:19 [Zakim]
15:07:26 [AlexPassant]
... no updated
15:07:29 [AxelPolleres]
topic: liaisons
15:07:32 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
15:07:32 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:07:35 [AxelPolleres]
no updates.
15:07:47 [AlexPassant]
topic: Document reviews
15:08:03 [bglimm]
Zakim, mute me
15:08:03 [Zakim]
bglimm should now be muted
15:08:13 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: schedule: publish in 2 weeks max
15:08:18 [AlexPassant]
... few reviews missing
15:08:31 [AlexPassant]
... kindly ask reviewers to review in the next few days
15:08:39 [AlexPassant]
... so that we can decide on publishing next week
15:09:01 [AxelPolleres]
15:09:04 [AlexPassant]
... first: query document
15:09:18 [AlexPassant]
... several reviews from bglimm, Souri, AxelPolleres and MattPerry
15:09:24 [AlexPassant]
... andy to summarize
15:09:36 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: nothing outstanding on the query side
15:09:47 [AlexPassant]
... if so, please remind
15:10:48 [AlexPassant]
Souri: sent another e-mail with minor question
15:11:02 [AlexPassant]
... not a critical one
15:11:34 [AlexPassant]
... reviewers should check if their comments have been addressed
15:11:39 [bglimm]
fine with me
15:11:48 [AlexPassant]
... will not give separate actions to reviewers
15:12:13 [AxelPolleres]
15:12:14 [AlexPassant]
... eveyone free to make some comments, but please keep the schedule in mind
15:12:28 [AlexPassant]
s/eveyone free/everyone is free/
15:12:37 [AlexPassant]
... next doc: Update
15:12:45 [AxelPolleres]
15:12:51 [AlexPassant]
... Paul sent regrets, difficult to discuss it today
15:12:59 [AlexPassant]
... quick look through the reviews sent so far
15:13:19 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: comments not addressed so far
15:13:30 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: postpone discussion until Paul is back
15:13:34 [Souri]
Please replace 20100126 with 2010126 in
15:14:09 [Souri]
sorry the other way
15:14:17 [AlexPassant]
... next: protocol
15:14:18 [AxelPolleres]
15:14:45 [AlexPassant]
david: short update - hoping to get some feedback
15:15:27 [AlexPassant]
... mail not yet in the archives
15:15:29 [AxelPolleres]
i can't see your mail in the archives:
15:15:32 [AlexPassant]
... sent about 1h ago
15:16:57 [AlexPassant]
david: should we update to WSDL2.0
15:17:29 [sandro]
3 messages from dcharbon approved
15:18:21 [AxelPolleres]
15:19:07 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: did we agree on getting only HTTP POST for the update
15:19:15 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: cannot do update with a GET by HTTP design
15:19:42 [AxelPolleres]
probably POST is the only reasonable way to do it.
15:20:02 [AxelPolleres]
... true.
15:20:23 [AlexPassant]
dcharbon2: graphs do exit / vs do not exist when updating data
15:20:32 [SteveH]
under what circumstances are those errors?
15:20:37 [AlexPassant]
... query gramatically correct but error when running it - suggestion to add a new error
15:20:40 [SteveH]
don't we have an open issue about this?
15:20:56 [AndyS]
15:21:04 [AlexPassant]
... ... should we have something more generic (e.g. semantic execution fault)
15:21:11 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: how this maps down to HTTP
15:21:22 [AlexPassant]
... caring about the corresponding HTTP code
15:22:11 [AxelPolleres]
5xx codes reflect that something went wrong.
15:22:20 [SteveH]
yes, 500 soundsw wrong to me
15:22:27 [AlexPassant]
dcharbon2: last question on the update doc
15:22:42 [AlexPassant]
... protocol could be conformat by implementing only a subset of the interface
15:22:51 [AlexPassant]
... seems not to be the case with WSDL
15:23:17 [AndyS]
ack me
15:24:34 [AlexPassant]
... have to implement one or both to be compliant ?
15:26:05 [AxelPolleres]
todo for david: WSDL and types update, and pointers from the overview doc.
15:26:32 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: david send mail about readiness for review by tonight
15:26:32 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - david
15:26:32 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dcharbon2, dnewman2)
15:26:50 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: reviewers needed for protocol
15:27:09 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: dcharbon2 send mail about readiness for review by tonight
15:27:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-173 - Send mail about readiness for review by tonight [on David Charboneau - due 2010-01-12].
15:27:29 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: axel to review protocol changes
15:27:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-174 - Review protocol changes [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-12].
15:27:39 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, pick a victim
15:27:39 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [Garlik]
15:28:27 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Luke to review protocol changes
15:28:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-175 - Review protocol changes [on Luke Wilson-Mawer - due 2010-01-12].
15:28:47 [AxelPolleres]
15:28:49 [AlexPassant]
... next document: Service Description
15:30:03 [AlexPassant]
kasei: before publication, would like to add a link to entailement profiles URIs
15:30:11 [AlexPassant]
... get the RDF published for the vocab as well
15:30:24 [AlexPassant]
... will check with Ivan / Sandro about the RDF
15:30:26 [ivan]
15:30:37 [AlexPassant]
... commited comments yesterday on future things (not for that draft)
15:30:53 [AlexPassant]
... just a few things to address before publishing
15:31:15 [AlexPassant]
ivan: happy to publish the RDF
15:31:23 [AlexPassant]
... discussed RDFa version in the email
15:31:37 [AlexPassant]
... can be postpone to a later stage
15:31:44 [AlexPassant]
kasei: happy with RDF/XML at the moment
15:31:53 [AlexPassant]
+1 on kasei
15:31:57 [AxelPolleres]
+1 RDF/XML for the first version RDFa as an option for future
15:32:51 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: greg to ensure RDF Schema gets published in time
15:32:51 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-176 - Ensure RDF Schema gets published in time [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-01-12].
15:33:13 [AlexPassant]
kasei: addressed the issues sent by reviewers
15:34:26 [AxelPolleres]
15:34:36 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: next doc - RDF Update
15:34:41 [AlexPassant]
... reviews missing
15:34:42 [chimezie]
Zakim, unmute me
15:34:42 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
15:35:02 [AlexPassant]
chimezie: standing review is AndyS' one
15:35:08 [AlexPassant]
... issues look straightforward
15:35:15 [AlexPassant]
... it not, email correspondance will help
15:35:23 [AxelPolleres]
15:35:40 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: issue around graph naming is problematic
15:36:36 [AlexPassant]
chimezie: need some interface to specify different URIs to update / delete a graph
15:36:56 [AlexPassant]
... several suggestions (query parameters)
15:37:04 [Zakim]
15:37:06 [Zakim]
15:37:06 [AlexPassant]
... specify the semantics of the interface should address the problem
15:37:18 [AlexPassant]
... can be addressed in the next round
15:38:24 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to ping all editor's to reply to unresponded reviews.
15:38:24 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-177 - Ping all editor's to reply to unresponded reviews. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-12].
15:38:28 [AlexPassant]
... can address most of the original comments / suggestions
15:38:48 [AlexPassant]
... could produce a version that incorporate the comments by the next telecon
15:39:00 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: should have the other reviews by then
15:39:08 [AlexPassant]
... discuss the last reviews next time
15:39:18 [chimezie]
Zakim, mute me
15:39:18 [Zakim]
Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:39:24 [AlexPassant]
... next doc : property path document
15:39:25 [AxelPolleres]
15:39:38 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #sparql
15:39:40 [AlexPassant]
... 2 open reviews
15:40:28 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: lots of comments (longer period of time)
15:40:33 [AlexPassant]
... now processed all of them
15:40:39 [ivan]
I am fine
15:40:40 [AlexPassant]
... if something is missing, please remind
15:41:16 [ivan]
I have checked and I am happy
15:41:20 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: reviewers should check if the comments have been addressed
15:41:27 [ivan]
15:41:30 [AlexPassant]
... then decision on publication on next TC
15:43:37 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Matt to start an email thread about fregments of propertypaths that could be dealt with in SWL
15:43:37 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Matt
15:43:41 [AndyS]
15:44:06 [AxelPolleres]
15:44:34 [AlexPassant]
ivan: we may want to do a formal vote on the publishing to go on the request for the shortname
15:45:20 [AlexPassant]
sandro: WG resolves the publishing, then do the short name decision
15:45:24 [chimezie]
i have to leave right now, unfortunately
15:45:30 [Zakim]
15:45:32 [AndyS]
"sparql11-property-paths" is the natural short name, I think.
15:45:47 [AxelPolleres]
strawpoll on the name? sparql11-property-paths
15:45:51 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: strawpoll on the shortname ?
15:45:54 [SteveH]
15:45:59 [AlexPassant]
... anyone opposed on sparql11-property-paths ?
15:46:01 [ivan]
ack ivan
15:46:11 [ivan]
15:46:15 [AxelPolleres]
15:46:19 [LukeWM]
Isn't it just a feature of query?
15:46:47 [AlexPassant]
sandro: is the sparql11 prefix in any shortname
15:46:50 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: yes
15:47:15 [ivan]
15:47:18 [kasei]
I was wondering the same thing as LukeWM.
15:47:27 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: short name for property paths FPWD will be sparql11-property-paths
15:47:32 [SteveH]
15:47:51 [AndyS]
Luke, if time (;-) but I think it needs a name to publish this round separately as well.
15:48:02 [AlexPassant]
SteveH: will it be a standalone doc or part of the query doc in the last call ?
15:48:15 [LukeWM]
Ah, I see, so it can be merged across at the very end if required.
15:48:23 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: can we include it later in the rec ?
15:48:30 [AlexPassant]
ivan: correct
15:48:54 [AxelPolleres]
15:49:03 [SteveH]
15:49:20 [AlexPassant]
sandro: different winow for disclosure but shall not be a problem
15:49:29 [AlexPassant]
15:49:33 [SteveH]
if it's going to be rolled into query11 it doesn't matter does it?
15:49:38 [SteveH]
which was why I asked
15:50:10 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: 2 options sparql11-paths / sparql11-property-paths
15:50:29 [AndyS]
For incorporation, only prob I see is one of balance - the pp doc is relatively long for the size of feature compared to rest of feature set.
15:50:34 [Zakim]
15:50:50 [SteveH]
AndyS, I don't see that being a big issue, myself
15:50:59 [AxelPolleres]
strawpoll on "property-" ?
15:51:05 [ivan]
+1 for property
15:51:06 [AxelPolleres]
15:51:07 [LukeWM]
15:51:07 [SteveH]
15:51:11 [kasei]
15:51:14 [tommik]
15:51:14 [bglimm]
+1 for property
15:51:17 [AndyS]
+1 to property
15:51:23 [AxelPolleres]
sandro: -1 to property
15:51:29 [AlexPassant]
15:51:36 [Zakim]
15:51:43 [AlexPassant]
Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:51:43 [Zakim]
+AlexPassant; got it
15:51:44 [LeeF]
+1 to property-path
15:51:49 [ivan]
+1 for plural
15:51:49 [AndyS]
SteveH, agree - merely the bigg*est* issue I could think of.
15:51:51 [AndyS]
+1 to plural
15:51:51 [SteveH]
+1 to plural
15:51:56 [AlexPassant]
+1 for plural
15:52:00 [bglimm]
+1 for paths (plural)
15:52:03 [kasei]
+1 for plural
15:52:04 [AxelPolleres]
strawpoll: plural yes/no? (paths)
15:52:05 [SteveH]
AndyS, ah, I see
15:52:07 [LukeWM]
+1 for plural
15:52:11 [Souri]
15:52:12 [LeeF]
15:52:12 [AxelPolleres]
sandro: 0
15:52:12 [MattPerry]
15:52:13 [tommik]
15:52:14 [AxelPolleres]
15:52:16 [dcharbon2]
15:52:44 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: property-paths seems to be the consensus
15:52:51 [AxelPolleres]
PROPOSED: short name for property paths FPWD will be sparql11-property-paths
15:52:57 [ivan]
15:53:08 [AndyS]
15:53:13 [bglimm]
15:53:38 [AxelPolleres]
RESOLVED: short name for property paths FPWD will be sparql11-property-paths
15:53:59 [bglimm]
Zakim, unmute me
15:53:59 [Zakim]
bglimm should no longer be muted
15:54:01 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: nothing more to add on property path ?
15:54:09 [AlexPassant]
... one document open: entailment
15:54:09 [AxelPolleres]
15:54:19 [AlexPassant]
bglimm: currently working through ivan's comment
15:54:28 [AlexPassant]
... should be finished today so that ivan can have another look
15:55:31 [AxelPolleres]
will try to look through OWL until tomorrow then.
15:55:43 [AlexPassant]
... updated OWL direct semantics with changes that ivan suggested
15:55:57 [AndyS]
15:56:35 [AlexPassant]
AndyS: trying to respond to every comment, what are the general expectations for comments
15:56:50 [AlexPassant]
... for the internal reviews
15:57:02 [AlexPassant]
... so that nothing gets lost
15:57:33 [ivan]
15:57:37 [AndyS]
ack me
15:58:08 [AlexPassant]
ivan: public comments coming in on the ML
15:58:11 [AxelPolleres]
15:58:25 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: should check the comments list if that's up to date + new comments coming
15:58:36 [AxelPolleres]
ACTION: Axel to check comments archives and add new comments if necessary
15:58:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-178 - Check comments archives and add new comments if necessary [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-01-12].
15:58:53 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: anybody can edit the page and pick-up open comments
15:58:57 [AndyS]
Are there any glaring late responses currently?
15:59:08 [AlexPassant]
... should go through the comments next week if time permits
16:00:06 [AlexPassant]
... meeting ajourned
16:00:10 [bglimm]
16:00:13 [Zakim]
16:00:14 [Zakim]
16:00:15 [Zakim]
16:00:16 [Zakim]
16:00:16 [Zakim]
16:00:18 [Zakim]
16:00:19 [AxelPolleres]
Alex, will you do the minutes magic?
16:00:20 [Zakim]
16:00:22 [Zakim]
16:00:22 [Zakim]
16:00:32 [AlexPassant]
yep, will try to recall how to do it
16:00:40 [Zakim]
16:02:21 [AxelPolleres]
general summary for the reviews: open reviews, plese complete iff any possible within the next one or two days, and try to get back to the editors in time, editors, please respond/acknowledge all reviews by next time, if possible!
16:02:51 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
16:03:12 [AlexPassant]
ok Im editing the minutes
16:07:26 [AlexPassant]
AxelPolleres: minutes at
16:07:50 [AxelPolleres]
alex, can you add regrets?
16:07:58 [AxelPolleres]
regrets: LeeF, PaulG
16:08:08 [AxelPolleres]
member:rrsagent, make records public
16:08:25 [AxelPolleres]
rrsagent, make records public
16:10:41 [AlexPassant]
how can I do that (regrets) ?
16:11:12 [AlexPassant]
ok done
16:11:30 [AlexPassant]
16:11:40 [Zakim]
16:35:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, AndyS, in SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
16:35:03 [Zakim]
SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:35:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were dcharbon2, bglimm, kasei, AndyS, Ivan, Axel, Sandro, tkoivula, Souri, AlexPassant, MattPerry, LukeWM, SteveH, Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:35:32 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
17:09:01 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql
18:02:28 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #sparql
19:50:11 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #sparql