Chatlog 2012-11-20

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15:01:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
15:01:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/20-sparql-irc
15:01:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
15:01:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:32 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:01:32 <trackbot> Date: 20 November 2012
15:02:34 <chimezie_> chimezie_ has joined #sparql
15:03:01 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:02 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
15:03:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, kasei, +1.603.897.aaaa, +49.897.aabb
15:03:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:13 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:03:13 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:03:15 <MattPerry> zakim, aaaa is me
15:03:15 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
15:03:23 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P4 is me
15:03:23 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
15:03:28 <Zakim> + +1.216.694.aacc
15:03:36 <chimezie_> Zakim, +1.216.694.aacc is me
15:03:36 <Zakim> +chimezie_; got it
15:03:38 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aabb is probably me
15:03:38 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres?; got it
15:03:51 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:03:51 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:03:56 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, AndyS, chimezie_ (muted)
15:04:13 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-11-20
15:04:19 <AxelPolleres> chair: AxelPolleres
15:04:32 <pgearon> pgearon has joined #sparql
15:04:34 <AxelPolleres> anybody volunteering to scribe?
15:04:39 <Zakim> +pgearon
15:04:45 <pgearon> OK, I'll do it
15:05:02 <AxelPolleres> scribe: paul gearon
15:05:20 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:05:39 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-30
15:05:39 <pgearon> minutes from last 2 meetings, because of glitch with last meeting
15:06:05 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-10-30
15:06:14 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, AndyS, chimezie_ (muted), pgearon
15:06:46 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: greg - was link for approval which is now fixed
15:06:51 <AxelPolleres>  PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-11-13
15:07:14 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-11-13
15:07:39 <AxelPolleres> topic: RDF liaison
15:07:44 <pgearon> topic: anything new from RDF?
15:08:01 <pgearon> AndyS: nothing specific. Test suite under discussion for TTL
15:08:20 <pgearon> AndyS: generally speaking, switching to finishing things off due to time pressures
15:08:32 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:09:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments
15:09:19 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: today we have 2 comments to do, and look at CR documents again
15:09:46 <AxelPolleres> JW-1
15:10:12 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: problem of not having an explicit load from FROM clause
15:10:43 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: suggest add a note of how to access data with FROM clause
15:10:53 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0147.html
15:12:16 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: AndyS commented that parenthetical comment on relative IRIs was not necessary
15:12:27 <pgearon> AndyS: this is just normal IRI processing
15:12:59 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: want something to address concern or it stays open
15:13:27 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: is it OK without the section in parentheses?
15:14:01 <pgearon> AndyS: yes. Though it's not about SPARQL 1.1. It's the same as SPARQL 1.0 and we don't want to open things up that might lead to problems
15:14:39 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to add remark to README and draft a reply to JW-1.
15:14:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-715 - Add remark to README and draft a reply to JW-1. [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-11-27].
15:15:06 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:15:47 <pgearon> kasei: JS-1 is the one that last week I said I needed to respond to. This does not involve any substantive issues
15:16:15 <pgearon> kasei: was going to respond without formal process from the group, because this issue is mostly just a misunderstanding
15:16:41 <pgearon> kasei: will fill in the appropriate links on the comments page for it
15:17:07 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: can be informal response, but if it's noted on the page then it should be fine
15:17:27 <pgearon> topic: CR documents
15:17:48 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: 3 documents still in CR because we need more implementations
15:17:27 <pgearon> subtopic: entailment regimes
15:18:06 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: entailment regime had a discussion last week
15:18:12 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/entailment/Overview.htm
15:18:20 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: mostly on track
15:18:56 <pgearon> bglimm: that is the URL of the overview of the entailment test doc
15:19:29 <pgearon> bglimm: we don't cover all SPARQL features, as we mainly focus on what is special for SPARQL entailment regimes
15:19:53 <chimezie_> Zakim, unmute me
15:19:53 <Zakim> chimezie_ should no longer be muted
15:19:56 <pgearon> sandro: problem with RIF is that we have just 1 test that says, "Does RIF work or not?"
15:20:08 <pgearon> sandro: in some sense that's all that we need, but it looks wrong
15:20:41 <pgearon> bglimm: we can't test all of OWL reasoning, and all of SPARQL
15:20:49 <pgearon> bglimm: we do most of RDF/RDFS
15:20:57 <AxelPolleres> sandro: was there a principled way for coverage in the test cases
15:21:11 <pgearon> bglimm: for OWL it's a bit random what we cover
15:21:38 <AxelPolleres> birte: we cover a couple of entailments all entailments and exhaustive coverage of SPARQL features would be overkill
15:22:28 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Core_Test
15:22:58 <AxelPolleres> sandro: idea could be to take the RIF Core test suite as a basis.
15:23:02 <pgearon> bglimm: some of those can be converted to entailment tests
15:24:14 <AxelPolleres> sandro: we probably don't need to cover consistency tests
15:24:15 <pgearon> sandro: some of these are logical consistency, and they wouldn't apply very well
15:24:49 <AndyS> q+ to add AOB about RDF-WG and entailment regimes.
15:24:53 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: were you in touch with Mike Dean on this?
15:25:16 <pgearon> sandro: Mike has done some, but not done any more. Have been in touch, but haven't heard back yet
15:26:11 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to add more RIF test cases based on http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Core_Test
15:26:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-716 - Add more RIF test cases based on http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Category:Core_Test [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-11-27].
15:26:14 <bglimm> We could also close my ACTION-714 Make a spreadsheet on entailment tests (which regimes they apply to) (document link is above)
15:26:15 <pgearon> chimezie_: I can look at these tests, and sync up with whatever Mike Dean has
15:27:02 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:27:02 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:27:14 <AxelPolleres> topic: AOB  about RDF-WG and entailment regimes
15:27:43 <pgearon> AndyS: RDF WG proposing to re-explain all the different entailment regimes. Does it make sense for RDF, and Ivan pointed out that this is about SPARQL
15:28:20 <pgearon> AndyS: trying to figure out "which bucket", and that dictates if it will be done in RDF or just to have an explanation
15:28:58 <AxelPolleres> topic: schedule and deadlines
15:29:05 <pgearon> AndyS: We may finish before they get around to finishing the discussion on this :-)
15:29:37 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: review period ends no the 29th
15:30:09 <AxelPolleres> in two weeks would be the first possible date to proceed to PR with the remaining 3 CRs.
15:30:11 <pgearon> sandro: voting process can be Dec 4
15:30:55 <pgearon> sandro: don't need to have rec out before WG expires, but we have to vote
15:31:14 <pgearon> sandro: have to get it done before end of year
15:31:47 <AxelPolleres> topic: GSP
15:31:51 <chimezie_> Zakim, unmute me
15:31:51 <Zakim> chimezie_ should no longer be muted
15:32:05 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: GSP = Graph Store Protocol
15:32:21 <pgearon> chimezie_: one test left outstanding
15:32:21 <chimezie_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012OctDec/0146.html
15:33:06 <pgearon> chimezie_: agree that multipart mixed should not be tested explicitly
15:33:47 <pgearon> AndyS: having trouble generating multipart mixed as well. Browsers don't generate this
15:34:16 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/tests.txt
15:34:29 <chimezie_> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/
15:35:45 <pgearon> AndyS: if Chimezie has fixed issues then that was the only one that was left
15:35:54 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to prepare a list of tst cases from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/ by next Telco which at least 2implementations pass.
15:35:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-717 - Prepare a list of tst cases from http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/ by next Telco which at least 2implementations pass. [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2012-11-27].
15:37:16 <pgearon> chimezie_: when might you be able to do the validator?
15:37:33 <pgearon> s/chimezie_/AndyS/
15:39:03 <pgearon> chimezie_: validator doesn't currently send multipart/mixed. So you don't be getting multipart/mixed, and won't be documenting it
15:39:36 <pgearon> chimezie_: should be able to run the validator at any point now
15:39:50 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to change the link in README.html to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/
15:39:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-718 - Change the link in README.html to http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/http-rdf-update/ [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-11-27].
15:40:17 <chimezie_> Zakim, mute me
15:40:17 <Zakim> chimezie_ should now be muted
15:40:19 <pgearon> topic: protocol
15:40:25 <AxelPolleres> https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-protocolvalidator
15:40:55 <pgearon> kasei: never approved the tests, though have agreement at this point
15:41:32 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: can write mail indicating what we can approve please? (all of them)
15:41:46 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
15:41:54 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve all protocol tests listed at https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-protocolvalidator
15:42:33 <pgearon> kasei: 34 tests
15:43:18 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve all 34 protocol tests listed at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/ as of today.
15:43:27 <kasei> +1
15:43:42 <bglimm> 0 (I didn't check them)
15:43:53 <chimezie_> +1
15:44:00 <sandro> +1 (trusting process)
15:44:08 <AndyS> +1
15:44:13 <MattPerry> +1
15:44:18 <pgearon> 0 (didn't check)
15:44:22 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve all 34 protocol tests listed at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/ as of today.
15:45:11 <kasei> FYI, the "as of today" link for the protocol test documentation is https://github.com/kasei/sparql11-protocolvalidator/blob/8cade0ac8e6ecd74706419d140a86841b881d49f/README.md
15:45:27 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/protocol/manifest.ttl
15:45:55 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to mark test cases for protocol as approved as per resolution
15:45:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-719 - Mark test cases for protocol as approved as per resolution [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-11-27].
15:46:20 <pgearon> kasei: believe we still have unapproved test in update, as well as the ones discussed in graph store protocol and entailment
15:46:44 <pgearon> OK, will look
15:47:03 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: paul to write a mail summarizing unapproved update test cases
15:47:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-720 - Write a mail summarizing unapproved update test cases [on Paul Gearon - due 2012-11-27].
15:48:33 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: next time should approve GSP test cases, and RIF if possible
15:48:41 <AxelPolleres> summary: next time we should approve the GSP test cases, and progress on RIF test cases if possible, and in two week we want to vote for PR on remaining docs
15:48:46 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: and in 2 weeks, vote for PR on remaining documents
15:49:28 <pgearon> bglimm: lots of other entailment tests that we have not yet approved. I can make a list of the ones that are still to be approved
15:49:53 <AxelPolleres> topic ACTION review
15:49:53 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Birte to make a list of unapproved Entailment test cases passed by at least two implementations.
15:49:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-721 - Make a list of unapproved Entailment test cases passed by at least two implementations. [on Birte Glimm - due 2012-11-27].
15:50:28 <bglimm> ACTION-701 Check all docs for the correct XML Schema datatypes reference
15:50:34 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-701
15:50:34 <trackbot> ACTION-701 Check all docs for the correct XML Schema datatypes reference closed
15:50:42 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-702
15:50:43 <trackbot> ACTION-702 Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc closed
15:50:46 <bglimm> ACTION-702 Mark these 3 regimes AT-RISK in entailment doc
15:51:13 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-707
15:51:13 <trackbot> ACTION-707 Transfer Update changes since LC from mailinglist and other changes to other docs (where not already done) closed
15:51:14 <bglimm> ACTION-714 Make a spreadsheet on entailment tests (which regimes they apply to)
15:51:41 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/entailment/Overview.htm
15:51:48 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-714:  http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/entailment/Overview.htm
15:51:48 <trackbot> ACTION-714 Make a spreadsheet on entailment tests (which regimes they apply to) notes added
15:51:55 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-714
15:51:55 <trackbot> ACTION-714 Make a spreadsheet on entailment tests (which regimes they apply to) closed
15:52:16 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: any other actions we can close?
15:52:30 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-712
15:52:30 <trackbot> ACTION-712 Mark :agg-empty-group as unapproved and :agg-empty-group2 as approved in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/aggregates/manifest.ttl pointing to the resp. resolution from the minutes. closed
15:52:36 <bglimm> Add references to other specs to http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#conformance (in the Editors' draft)
15:52:43 <bglimm> ACTION-710
15:52:49 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-710
15:52:49 <trackbot> ACTION-710 Add references to other specs to http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#conformance (in the Editors' draft) closed
15:53:03 <bglimm> ACTION-709 Check back with Sandro whether [XSDT] reference to XML Schema 1.0 is ok in Query
15:53:05 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-708
15:53:05 <trackbot> ACTION-708 Check whether references in Query are up-to-date closed
15:53:24 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-709
15:53:25 <trackbot> ACTION-709 Check back with Sandro whether [XSDT] reference to XML Schema 1.0 is ok in Query closed
15:53:38 <bglimm> ACTION-704 Notify Birte about ACTION-702
15:54:10 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-704
15:54:10 <trackbot> ACTION-704 Notify Birte about ACTION-702 closed
15:54:13 <chimezie_> my actions that are done: ACTION-496, ACTION-667
15:54:15 <bglimm> ACTION-703 Notify editors about Changes Since LC section
15:54:24 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-703
15:54:24 <trackbot> ACTION-703 Notify editors about Changes Since LC section closed
15:54:34 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-496
15:54:35 <trackbot> ACTION-496 Think about how test cases for graph store protocol could look like. closed
15:54:44 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-667
15:54:44 <trackbot> ACTION-667 Put together the tests as outlined in this teleconference closed
15:54:58 <chimezie_> ACTION-677, ACTION-697
15:55:08 <bglimm> ACTION-688 Check Birte's README edits on entailment tests
15:55:19 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-688
15:55:19 <trackbot> ACTION-688 Check Birte's README edits on entailment tests closed
15:55:32 <bglimm> ACTION-685 Review entailment tests which have at least one pass, such that we can approve them nexty week
15:55:53 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-700
15:55:53 <trackbot> ACTION-700 Review changes as per ACTION-698 closed
15:56:03 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-698
15:56:03 <trackbot> ACTION-698 Implement errata on XMLres and bring it in format for proposed edited recommendation closed
15:56:51 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: can continue the closing next time
15:57:06 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: most important thing is to concentrate on the items to get to PR
15:57:20 <chimezie_> bye
15:57:22 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
15:57:24 <AndyS> bye
15:57:24 <Zakim> -chimezie_
15:57:26 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:57:27 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:57:29 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:57:30 <Zakim> -kasei
15:57:33 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
15:57:52 <AndyS> AndyS has left #sparql
15:58:00 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:58:15 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres?
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