Chatlog 2012-02-07

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14:59:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:59:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-irc
14:59:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:59:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:59:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:22 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:59:22 <trackbot> Date: 07 February 2012
14:59:36 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting 
14:59:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS
14:59:47 <AndyS> zakim, this is 77277
14:59:47 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:00:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:00:20 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
15:00:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:00:32 <Zakim> +??P15
15:00:35 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P15 is me
15:00:35 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
15:00:37 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:00:39 <swh> swh has joined #sparql
15:00:42 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aaaa
15:00:56 <Olivier_> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:00:56 <Zakim> +Olivier_; got it
15:01:10 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
15:01:21 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
15:01:21 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
15:01:41 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, [IPcaller.a], cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry
15:02:13 <alexpassant> Zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:02:13 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it
15:03:17 <swh_> swh_ has joined #sparql
15:03:19 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
15:03:22 <Zakim> + +49.897.aacc
15:03:31 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
15:03:34 <Zakim> + +44.020.843.9.aadd
15:03:40 <swh_> Zakim, aadd is me
15:03:40 <Zakim> +swh_; got it
15:03:41 <AndyS> Alex - I'm you!  Will flip.
15:03:44 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone
15:03:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres
15:03:49 <AndyS> zkiam, IPCaller.a is me
15:03:51 <alexpassant> Zakim, AndyS is me
15:03:54 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it
15:03:59 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller.a is me
15:04:02 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller.a'
15:04:04 <swh> voip not working for me today, had to call US
15:04:07 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:04:07 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller.a'
15:04:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant.a, kasei, alexpassant, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, +49.897.aacc, swh_
15:04:20 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, aacc is probably me
15:04:20 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres?; got it
15:04:21 <Zakim> -alexpassant
15:04:36 <alexpassant> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant.a, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh_
15:04:37 <alexpassant> I'm here
15:04:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:43 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:04:43 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:04:46 <alexpassant> sure
15:04:51 <alexpassant> Zakim: alexpassant.a is me
15:04:57 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Alexpassant
15:05:01 <alexpassant> Zakim, alexpassant.a is me
15:05:01 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it
15:05:05 <AxelPolleres> chair: axelPolleres
15:05:22 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2012-02-07
15:05:41 <swh> Zakim, swh_ is me
15:05:41 <Zakim> +swh; got it
15:06:18 <swh> AxelPolleres, BTW, the UK number on the agenda no longer works
15:06:27 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Lee, sandro
15:06:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to mail sandro about loss of UK number
15:06:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-586 - Mail sandro about loss of UK number [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14].
15:07:06 <alexpassant> french number seems also down
15:07:10 <alexpassant> topic: admin 
15:07:13 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:07:28 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31
15:07:35 <Olivier_> french phone number does not work
15:08:21 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-01-31
15:08:23 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: no comments about last minutes
15:08:27 <alexpassant> … approving minutes
15:08:38 <AxelPolleres> Next regular meeting: 2012-02-14 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST
15:08:39 <alexpassant> … next meeting in a week
15:08:46 <Olivier_> regrets for next week
15:08:57 <cbuilara> regrets for next week too
15:09:26 <AxelPolleres> nicholas or steve to scribe next time
15:09:28 <alexpassant> … scribe will be SteveH 
15:09:39 <AxelPolleres> topic: RDF liaison
15:09:44 <alexpassant> … liaison with RDF WG
15:09:50 <alexpassant> AndyS: several things to report
15:09:57 <alexpassant> … first one is about QUADS
15:10:02 <alexpassant> … proposed to adopt TRIG to dump RDF stores
15:10:17 <alexpassant> … one issue is that the WG is not decided if QUADS will be used for NG
15:10:27 <alexpassant> … may lead to 2 architectures for named graphs in W3C
15:11:51 <alexpassant> … no decision yet
15:12:26 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments
15:12:28 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
15:12:36 <AndyS> I updated the comments: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
15:12:37 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: 2 pending comments
15:12:45 <alexpassant> … one already discussed on the list
15:12:49 <AxelPolleres> JP-4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0009.html
15:12:49 <AndyS> 7 LC comments
15:12:52 <alexpassant> … JP-4
15:13:02 <alexpassant> … would like to open discussion about it
15:14:27 <alexpassant> AndyS: bglimm discussed issues between properties path and entailment 
15:14:33 <alexpassant> … may be marked as optional feature
15:14:39 <bglimm> I wrote an email about it just before the teleconf: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0128.html
15:15:04 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: no option to mark something as optional. 
15:15:13 <alexpassant> … can be not normative / informative, not sure there's other alternative
15:16:10 <alexpassant> AndyS: clash between styles, more UC-driven versus computational-theory background
15:19:17 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: should probably answer that 1) we value their work to point the issue and give options for optimization 2) tone that down for CR version of their paper
15:21:39 <alexpassant> … their paper propose an orthogonal way to look at property path
15:22:39 <AndyS> DISTINCT(:p*)
15:22:48 <AndyS> :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r
15:23:03 <AndyS> ?x  :q/DISTINCT(:p*)/:r  ?z .
15:24:03 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aaee
15:24:09 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:24:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, +1.216.368.aaee
15:24:16 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aaee is me
15:24:16 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
15:24:18 <kasei> I agree with AndyS about defaulting to the counting semantics
15:24:21 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:24:21 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
15:25:09 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:25:31 <alexpassant> Olivier_: may have a DISTINCT keyword in the path. could help to solve the problem
15:25:45 <alexpassant> … could also build artificial queries w/o path that are very expensive
15:26:20 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:26:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, chimezie (muted)
15:26:23 <alexpassant> I haven't checked the issue in detail
15:26:40 <swh> FWIW I read the mail, but haven't implemented PPs, so no real opinion
15:27:12 <cbuilara> Ihavent checked the email in detail
15:27:29 <AxelPolleres> Strawpoll...  We keep defaulting to counting paths semantics (+1) 
15:27:35 <swh> 0
15:27:36 <kasei> +1
15:27:38 <MattPerry> +1
15:27:44 <cbuilara> 0
15:27:51 <alexpassant> 0
15:27:51 <chimezie> 0 (not very well swapped into issue(s))
15:27:55 <bglimm> 0 (not being able to follow the spoken discussion)
15:28:08 <AndyS> +1
15:28:22 <AndyS> Also - issue about another LC cycle.
15:28:24 <AxelPolleres> 0
15:28:49 <Olivier_> 0 need to think about it more
15:29:05 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: no one strongly to change the default behavior 
15:29:24 <kasei> are we discussing adding the DISTINCT(pp) thing in 1.1? or just leaving it open for the future?
15:29:36 <AxelPolleres> Andy: Another LC cycle is anyways necessary if we change the grammar
15:30:11 <chimezie> i would like to be swapped in, just didn't find the time to read the email(s) in detail - so inclined to concur with WG
15:31:23 <AxelPolleres> probably discuss with team contacts whether this is still possible in our current schedule
15:34:49 <AxelPolleres> Option 1... keep everything as it is in the grammar, and explain which DISTINCT path subqueries can be optimized, Option 2 ... add DISTINCT  around paths.
15:35:52 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to summarize option 1 and 2 in email
15:35:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-587 - Summarize option 1 and 2 in email [on Axel Polleres - due 2012-02-14].
15:36:04 <AxelPolleres> we strive for a decision next week.
15:37:06 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: next comment MO-1
15:37:07 <AxelPolleres> next one: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2012Jan/0010.html
15:37:11 <kasei> Andy suggested new wording: "sd:availableGraphs Relates an instance of sd:Service to a description of the __usable__ graphs where the service limits the scope of the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request."
15:38:42 <kasei> ("__usable__" wording is mine)
15:38:45 <AndyS> I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes and leave the decision to the editor.
15:38:54 <AndyS> I'm +1 to reply whether SD doc changes or not and leave the decision to the editor.
15:38:57 <AxelPolleres> "allowed?"
15:39:26 <alexpassant> kasei: will make change about wording if everyone is ok
15:39:39 <kasei> current wording: "Relates an instance of <a href="#sd-Service"><code>sd:Service</code></a> to a description of the graphs that may be used in the construction of a dataset either via the SPARQL Protocol, with FROM/FROM NAMED clauses in a query, or with USING/USING NAMED in an update request."
15:42:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: kasei to draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list
15:42:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-588 - Draft a reply to MO-1 with better wording to the list [on Gregory Williams - due 2012-02-14].
15:42:58 <AxelPolleres> topic: test cases/implementations
15:43:00 <AndyS> q+ to note action 579 
15:43:02 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
15:45:13 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Andy to ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists
15:45:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-589 - Ping lee on ACTION-579 and in case draft a respective mail to comments/dev lists [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-02-14].
15:45:15 <AndyS> ack me
15:45:15 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to note action 579
15:46:58 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05
15:47:07 <kasei> +1
15:47:08 <AxelPolleres> +!
15:47:12 <AxelPolleres> +1
15:47:13 <Olivier_> +1
15:47:15 <AndyS> +1
15:47:17 <MattPerry> +1
15:47:25 <chimezie> +1
15:47:31 <swh> +
15:47:33 <swh> +1
15:47:44 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve test cases http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists01-http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#exists05
15:48:02 <alexpassant> AxelPolleres: next topic : update TC
15:48:10 <alexpassant> … discussion on COPY and MOVE
15:49:39 <alexpassant> … can approve all TC except COPY-5 and MOVE-5
15:50:14 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move05 and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy05
15:50:22 <kasei> +1
15:50:26 <MattPerry> +1
15:52:00 <swh> I'm not confident about MOVE COPY at the moment
15:52:38 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy??
15:52:48 <AxelPolleres> +1
15:53:03 <kasei> +1
15:53:04 <Olivier_> +1
15:53:06 <MattPerry> +1
15:53:10 <AxelPolleres> +1
15:53:14 <AndyS> +1
15:53:35 <alexpassant> +1
15:53:36 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve non-classified update use cases, except http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#move?? and http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/summary.html#copy??
15:53:58 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:53:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see alexpassant, kasei, cbuilara, Olivier_, MattPerry, AxelPolleres?, swh, AndyS, chimezie (muted)
15:54:34 <AxelPolleres> can we approve json-res/manifest#jsonres01
15:55:09 <kasei> I have no idea why we didn't approve it before, but that certainly seems like it would be relevant...
15:56:58 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-16#resolution_2
16:00:18 <AndyS> kasei, the triple for non-classified wasn't removed.  Will fix.
16:00:24 <AndyS> kasei: the triple for non-classified wasn't removed.  Will fix.
16:01:43 <Zakim> -swh
16:01:58 <MattPerry> bye
16:01:58 <Zakim> -chimezie
16:02:02 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
16:02:06 <Zakim> -cbuilara
16:02:07 <Zakim> -Olivier_
16:02:08 <Zakim> -MattPerry
16:02:09 <Zakim> -alexpassant
16:02:13 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:02:16 <AxelPolleres> we'll discuss the copy  and move test cases next week and I'll drop paul a mail where he is regarding the update rewording.
16:02:17 <Zakim> -kasei
16:02:40 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
16:02:41 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:02:41 <Zakim> Attendees were kasei, cbuilara, +33.4.92.38.aaaa, Olivier_, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, alexpassant, +49.897.aacc, +44.020.843.9.aadd, AxelPolleres, AndyS, swh, chimezie
16:02:44 <kasei> I'll update the test manifests with the new approval status.
16:02:48 <alexpassant> RRSAgent: make minutes
16:02:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/07-sparql-minutes.html alexpassant
17:45:10 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
17:55:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql
18:08:55 <kasei> are there minutes from today's meeting?
18:46:57 <alex> alex has joined #sparql
20:01:00 <swh> swh has joined #sparql
20:27:07 <alex> alex has joined #sparql
20:50:37 <alex> alex has joined #sparql
21:03:21 <alex> alex has joined #sparql
# SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC.  DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW.  SRCLINESUSED=00000228