Chatlog 2011-09-27

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13:57:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:57:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/27-sparql-irc
13:57:49 <AndyS> zakim, this is SPARQL
13:57:49 <Zakim> AndyS, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be SPARQL".
13:57:56 <AndyS> zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:57:56 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:58:13 <LeeF> trackbot, start meeting
13:58:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:58:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:18 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:18 <trackbot> Date: 27 September 2011
13:58:27 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:58:27 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:45 <swh> swh has joined #sparql
13:58:54 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:59:01 <Zakim> +??P3
13:59:05 <AndyS> zakim, ??P3 is me
13:59:05 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
13:59:10 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aaaa
13:59:16 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:59:16 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
13:59:49 <mperry> mperry has joined #sparql
13:59:56 <Zakim> +??P7
14:00:01 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P7 is me
14:00:01 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:00:02 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aabb
14:00:07 <LeeF> zakim, aabb is me
14:00:07 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:00:12 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:00:14 <Zakim> +Bert
14:00:16 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-09-27
14:00:35 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
14:00:46 <LeeF> zakim, Bert is Olivier
14:00:46 <Zakim> +Olivier; got it
14:00:47 <mperry> zakim, aacc is me
14:00:48 <Zakim> +mperry; got it
14:00:52 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:00:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, kasei, cbuilara, LeeF, Olivier, mperry
14:01:25 <LeeF> Scribenick: cbuilara
14:02:26 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
14:02:26 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
14:02:29 <LeeF> topic: Admin
14:02:39 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-09-20
14:03:13 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:03:23 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-09-20
14:03:23 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
14:03:27 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:03:36 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2011-10-04 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Sandro? )
14:04:10 <Zakim> + +1.216.368.aadd
14:04:11 <cbuilara> LeeF: Andy, anything from the RDF-WG?
14:04:21 <chimezie> Zakim, 1.216.368.aadd is me
14:04:22 <Zakim> sorry, chimezie, I do not recognize a party named '1.216.368.aadd'
14:04:29 <cbuilara> AndyS: no, nothing new
14:04:30 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.368.aadd is me
14:04:30 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
14:04:57 <cbuilara> AndyS: in the next f2f meeting probably we will push the job
14:05:02 <LeeF> topic: publication status
14:05:12 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:05:12 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:05:21 <LeeF> AxelPolleres, any news on overview document?
14:05:53 <AxelPolleres> no news on overview, hope to find an evening this week where I can finish it.
14:05:58 <cbuilara> LeeF: Fed query, still trying to finish issues from Greg, anything solved?
14:06:07 <cbuilara> zakim, unmute me
14:06:12 <Zakim> cbuilara was not muted, cbuilara
14:06:31 <LeeF> cbuilara: remaining issue is the comment from Axel - I will check that in today
14:06:37 <LeeF> ... fed query document is OK after that
14:07:12 <cbuilara> kasei: I'm not sure if everything is fixed
14:07:21 <cbuilara> s/LeeF/kasei
14:07:33 <cbuilara> kasei: I will have a look at the document
14:07:39 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
14:07:40 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
14:08:02 <cbuilara> LeeF: my main concern is that people is communicating
14:08:22 <LeeF> ACTION-514?
14:08:22 <trackbot> ACTION-514 -- Axel Polleres to look at Greg's review of federated query -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
14:08:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/514
14:08:35 <cbuilara> LeeF: Greg to look at the document and review it
14:08:48 <LeeF> topic: String functions
14:09:06 <LeeF> Comment from Jeen: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Aug/0001.html
14:10:52 <LeeF> ack pgearon
14:11:03 <pgearon> sorry, having trouble with mute
14:11:35 <cbuilara> pgearon: I don't have a strong feeling on the hash functions, but the common ones
14:11:43 <LeeF> LeeF: 3 questions: 1) right set of string functions? 2) string functions are 1-indexed 3) set of hash functions
14:11:54 <cbuilara> pgearon: I never run to use the other hash functions
14:12:10 <cbuilara> pgearon: I do not have any particular use case
14:12:48 <cbuilara> LeeF: there wasn't strong objections to include all funcions
14:13:21 <cbuilara> LeeF: anyone objected to have all hash functons?
14:13:58 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:14:42 <cbuilara> LeeF: minutes of the hash functions:  http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-12-07
14:15:13 <pgearon> my original position was that we should do all possible functions. This was not based on a perceived need for them all, but because I thought it was cheap to do.
14:15:55 <pgearon> Steve's comment indicates that it isn't so easy (I have not had an opportunity to implement these myself).
14:16:24 <LeeF> q?
14:16:39 <swh> Decent implementations of the more obscure ones are hard to come by, but it's not the end of the world
14:16:45 <cbuilara> LeeF: it seems a "why not add them all attitude?" any more opinions on that?
14:17:03 <AndyS> q+
14:17:35 <LeeF> ack AndyS
14:18:40 <cbuilara> LeeF: we do not have a protocol document, we can update the last call for hash functions without being a bit problem
14:18:55 <cbuilara> AndyS: it could be possible a second last call?
14:18:57 <LeeF> AxelPolleres, does RIF use the 1-indexed string functions?
14:19:52 <LeeF> q?
14:20:15 <pgearon> LeeF: RIF does use 1 based indexing
14:20:24 <LeeF> LeeF: if we trimmed the SHA functions, which ones would we include?
14:20:30 <LeeF> AndyS: SHA1 and SHA256 I think?
14:20:35 <cbuilara> AndyS: I do not have experience of people using SHA2
14:21:31 <cbuilara> LeeF: if anybody is ok to remove SHA2, say it
14:23:18 <cbuilara> LeeF: get somebody to select the right hash functions
14:23:20 <AndyS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-1#SHA-1
14:23:28 <LeeF> ACTION: Sandro to ask W3C security experts about popular / useful hash functions
14:23:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-536 - Ask W3C security experts about popular / useful hash functions [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-10-04].
14:24:27 <LeeF> LeeF: We seem to have consensus on removingsome less comomn hash functions. We'll revisit this with a concrete resolution pending expert input on which ones to keep.
14:24:33 <LeeF> ack pgearon
14:25:25 <LeeF> pgearon: perhaps include a note in the document reminding people about function extensibility
14:26:13 <Zakim> + +1.781.899.aaee
14:26:24 <Zakim> -Sandro
14:27:24 <cbuilara> LeeF: my inclination would be to keep it in the way it is
14:27:27 <LeeF> subtopic: 1-indexed strings
14:27:29 <mperry> I am for 1-based strings
14:27:36 <LeeF> ack pgearon
14:27:39 <cbuilara> LeeF: what people think?
14:28:01 <cbuilara> pgearon: I'm happy with 1-based string
14:28:31 <cbuilara> AndyS: I'm neutral
14:28:41 <cbuilara> Andy: about the hash functions
14:28:55 <cbuilara> AndyS: we do not have any operation that return indexes
14:29:28 <cbuilara> AndyS: it is probably a mistake that we did not get it
14:29:57 <pgearon> I'm looking at RIF right now, and it doesn't have a string search
14:30:44 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#string-functions
14:31:24 <pgearon> RIF probably doesn't need it, since with logic programming you can just put a variable in for func:substring and it will fill in the value of the variable for you
14:31:53 <cbuilara> LeeF: why didn't xpath operations does not include index operations
14:32:15 <cbuilara> Sandro: we can ask, xquery may have some similar operations to that
14:34:14 <cbuilara> LeeF: Jeen is asking what criteria does the grup have about the string functions
14:35:13 <LeeF> LeeF: Seems to be consensus to keep 1-indexed strings in string functions (as per XML F&O and RIF)
14:35:44 <cbuilara> LeeF: question about set of functions
14:36:05 <AndyS> "fn:substring-before" and "fn:substring-after" go someway to help - they produce strings
14:37:04 <AxelPolleres> In RIF the criterion was basically scanning the ones in http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#string-functions and taking those on board which we thought would be reasonable for that group's purposes (not much more, we definitly didn't think of other functions except those from Xpath/Xquery for strings)
14:38:14 <chimezie> for what its worth
14:38:34 <chimezie> i write XPath often without the need for explicit index returning functions (using substring-before and after, etc.)
14:40:15 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:40:15 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:40:33 <cbuilara> Sandro: I will send a quick note to the xpath staff contact asking for comments about string functions
14:42:00 <cbuilara> LeeF: better to include substring before and after, anybodydisagrees?
14:42:07 <LeeF> LeeF: If we're already doing a 2nd last call, we probably ought to include substring-before and substring-after
14:42:42 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:42:42 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:42:51 <LeeF> for next week's agenda: PROPOSED: Include substring-before and substring-after as SPARQL 1.1 Query functions
14:43:11 <AxelPolleres> Naive proposal would be to propose to expand to those functions we miss from RIF's string functions, particularly substring-before/after ... would that do? (at least we would be cohherent between RIF and SPARQL then) on a quick look, we miss substring-before., substring-after, string-join, replace, 
14:44:00 <LeeF> topic: implementation report
14:45:00 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/implementations/
14:45:03 <cbuilara> kasei: the output from that code in the cvs, one line per test, generates a quick summary 
14:45:44 <chimezie> i can begin to produce EARL
14:45:46 <cbuilara> LeeF: people should start producing reports
14:45:51 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:45:51 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:48:52 <cbuilara> kasei: some of the tests files in CVS are not available with no login into the W3C
14:49:35 <kasei> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/functions/
14:50:01 <kasei> the file notin01.rq should appear in that directory listing, but doesn't.
14:51:32 <cbuilara> Sandro: still searching for the problem
14:53:20 <cbuilara> LeeF: chimezie summarize entailment
14:53:33 <AndyS> SJ = Simon Johnstone
14:54:43 <Zakim> -chimezie
14:54:44 <AndyS> FWIW -- Fuseki sniffs the filename on multifile load -- browsers don't set content type
14:54:51 <cbuilara> s/entailment/protocol comments
14:55:09 <sandro> q+ re permissions
14:55:12 <cbuilara> s/entailment/protocol comments/
14:55:46 <LeeF> ack sandro
14:55:46 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to discuss permissions
14:56:58 <mperry> bye
14:57:06 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:57:14 <Zakim> -mperry
14:57:28 <Zakim> -Olivier
14:58:06 <cbuilara> Sandro: there may be a problem with the CVS server, I will try to refresh
15:00:31 <AndyS> if anyone (any two) people could confirm responses DM-1 and DB-11, I'd be most grateful.
15:00:55 <AndyS> pgearon - there are some shared query/update responses to draft.
15:01:35 <pgearon> OK. Just realized last night I have one for David Booth that I'm behind on
15:04:24 <sandro> notin01.rq : ➔ Gregory Williams (gwilliam) can admin
15:04:24 <sandro> Team access can admin
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