Chatlog 2011-08-16

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13:56:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:56:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/16-sparql-irc
13:56:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:56:43 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:43 <trackbot> Date: 16 August 2011
13:56:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:56:59 <AxelPolleres> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0186.html
13:57:58 <AndyS> zakim super slow today.
13:58:14 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:58:14 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I don't know what conference this is
13:58:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Olivier, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, LeeF, AndyS, iv_an_ru, kasei, trackbot, NickH, ericP
13:58:19 <AxelPolleres> regrets: chime
13:58:28 <AndyS> zakim, this is SPARQL
13:58:28 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
13:58:34 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:58:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P10, ??P13
13:58:37 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
13:58:41 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me
13:58:43 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P13 is me
13:58:46 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
13:58:47 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
13:58:59 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:42 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
13:59:53 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
13:59:54 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
14:00:01 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:00:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, cbuilara, kasei, [Sophia], AxelPolleres
14:00:25 <AxelPolleres> [Sophia] .... is that Olivier?
14:01:05 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:01:06 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Olivier
14:01:49 <Olivier> [Sophia] is Olivier
14:02:09 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, cbuilara, kasei, [Sophia], AxelPolleres, MattPerry
14:02:11 <AndyS> zakim, [Sophia] is temporarily Olivier
14:02:11 <Zakim> +Olivier; got it
14:02:42 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
14:02:49 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0186.html
14:03:04 <Zakim> +LeeF
14:03:13 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
14:03:36 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes from last TC http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-09
14:04:24 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes from last TC http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-09
14:05:23 <alexpassant> alexpassant has joined #sparql
14:05:46 <bglimm> Zakim, passcode?
14:05:52 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), bglimm
14:05:54 <AxelPolleres> next weeks regrets Birte, Andy, Axel, sandro, Alex...
14:05:57 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
14:06:03 <alexpassant> Zakim, +3539149aaaa is me
14:06:04 <Zakim> +alexpassant; got it
14:06:14 <AxelPolleres> next TC is supposed to be 23rd.
14:06:18 <Zakim> + +44.186.598.aabb
14:06:29 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.598.aabb is me
14:06:29 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:06:34 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:06:34 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:06:58 <MattPerry> I can do it
14:07:15 <AxelPolleres> matt to scribe next week...
14:07:16 <pgearon> pgearon has joined #sparql
14:07:32 <AxelPolleres> topic: liason with RDF
14:08:06 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:08:15 <AxelPolleres> issues at the moment around escape sequences, relates to richard's comment
14:08:22 <AndyS> See also: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Aug/0010.html
14:08:49 <AxelPolleres>  1) continue on test case coverage,
14:08:50 <AxelPolleres>  2) try to approve some of the new test cases and
14:08:50 <AxelPolleres>  3) look at the status of documents/publishing
14:08:50 <AxelPolleres>  4) look over open actions and comments
14:09:01 <AxelPolleres> topic: test coverage
14:09:12 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage
14:09:45 <bglimm> q+ to ask when we can discuss Michael Schneider's comments
14:09:54 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:09:54 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:10:00 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:10:00 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:10:12 <Olivier> federated query test
14:10:19 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Federated_Query
14:10:52 <Olivier> still need to be populated
14:11:00 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: carlos to complete http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Federated_Query on what's missing on coverage
14:11:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-520 - Complete http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Federated_Query on what's missing on coverage [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-08-23].
14:11:21 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#JSON_Results
14:11:30 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#TSV.2FCSV_Results
14:12:09 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/
14:13:01 <AxelPolleres> :jsonres01� - :jsonres04�
14:13:18 <kasei> I pass all json tests
14:13:54 <Olivier> 3 implementations for JSON
14:14:01 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 test cases in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/
14:14:04 <kasei> +1
14:14:10 <AndyS> +1
14:14:12 <Olivier> +1
14:14:18 <MattPerry> +1
14:14:27 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 test cases in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/
14:14:52 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: to update test case status for  :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 
14:14:52 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
14:15:09 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to update test case status for  :jsonres01 - :jsonres04
14:15:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-521 - Update test case status for  :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].
14:15:45 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#TSV.2FCSV_Results
14:15:52 <Olivier> csv tsv test cases
14:15:58 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/csv-tsv-res/
14:16:47 <AxelPolleres>     :csv01
14:16:48 <AxelPolleres>     :tsv01
14:16:48 <AxelPolleres>     :csv02
14:16:48 <AxelPolleres>     :tsv02
14:16:48 <AxelPolleres> ... 
14:16:49 <AndyS> I only run TSV tests.
14:17:16 <kasei> everything but csv03 look good to me
14:17:43 <kasei> q+
14:17:50 <Olivier> corner case in csv3 tsv3
14:17:59 <bglimm> Zakum, unmute me
14:18:09 <AxelPolleres> birte?
14:18:17 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, unmute bglimm
14:18:17 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:18:46 <bglimm> Zakim, ack me
14:18:46 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask when we can discuss Michael Schneider's comments
14:18:49 <Zakim> I see kasei on the speaker queue
14:18:53 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:18:53 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:19:18 <Olivier> csv : pb with canonicalization of literals
14:19:30 <Olivier> csv 3 indeed
14:19:48 <AxelPolleres> cvs03 ... corner cases
14:19:51 <AxelPolleres> :s1 :p1 "1"^^xsd:decimal .
14:19:51 <AxelPolleres> :s2 :p2 "2.2"^^xsd:decimal .
14:19:52 <AxelPolleres> :s3 :p3 "-3"^^xsd:negativeInteger .
14:19:52 <AxelPolleres> :s4 :p4 "4,4"^^xsd:string .
14:19:52 <AxelPolleres> :s5 :p5 "5,5"^^:myCustomDatatype .
14:19:53 <AxelPolleres> :s6 :p6 "1.0e6"^^xsd:double .
14:19:54 <AxelPolleres> :s7 :p7 "a7"^^xsd:hexBinary .
14:20:45 <Olivier> result 1 is ambiguous
14:20:48 <AndyS> q+
14:21:01 <AxelPolleres> query is   ... WHERE{ ?s ?p ?o } ...
14:21:03 <AndyS> q-
14:21:29 <pgearon> q+
14:21:31 <AxelPolleres> greg: result for ?o could be 1 or 1.0, both valid
14:21:43 <kasei> q-
14:21:51 <AxelPolleres> ... depending on canonicalization.
14:22:43 <kasei> maybe not completely "separate", but SPARQL doesn't specify. there are several valid options.
14:22:56 <AxelPolleres> paul: load in update touches upon canonicalization.
14:23:01 <bglimm> Entailment with datatypes also has this issue
14:23:55 <pgearon> from memory, the SPARQL 1.0 tests contains alternative tests, whereby a store will pass one or the other, but not both
14:24:07 <AxelPolleres> kasei: proposal ... to mark test case with mf:requires ...
14:24:24 <AxelPolleres> Andy: XSD1.0 and 1.1 treat these cases differently.
14:24:50 <AndyS> Just don't test for legal variances.
14:25:16 <kasei> currently mf:requies is still (I think) just talking about "open world" tests, but we're using it for more than that in 1.1
14:25:43 <MattPerry> I agree with Andy. Just remove that triple from the dataset.
14:26:09 <kasei> right. LOTS of answers :)
14:26:41 <kasei> q+
14:26:48 <pgearon> q-
14:27:07 <AxelPolleres> axel: least path of resistence would be dropping first line.
14:27:19 <bglimm> -3 could also be canonicalised to decimal
14:27:27 <bglimm> or integer
14:27:45 <bglimm> well, decimal is the base type
14:28:29 <AxelPolleres> "3"^^xsd:string should be non-ambiguous
14:28:42 <bglimm> yes
14:29:18 <Olivier> pb with testing bnode in csv
14:29:20 <AxelPolleres> can I replace "1"^^xsd:decimal with "1"^^xsd:string ? 
14:30:52 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve csv01-csv03 and tsv01-tsv03 modulo changing  "1"^^xsd:decimal with "1"^^xsd:string in data2.ttl
14:31:18 <LeeF> q+
14:31:25 <kasei> q-
14:31:27 <AxelPolleres> ack kasei
14:31:57 <kasei> I agree with the strangeness of the differences. Didn't notice until very late in the game.
14:32:15 <AxelPolleres> Leef: I will abstian on that one, since I still find some weird aspects in CSV/TSV. 
14:33:04 <pgearon> +1
14:33:08 <AndyS> +1
14:33:19 <AndyS> (prefer to see the change)
14:33:29 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve csv01-csv03 and tsv01-tsv03 modulo changing  "1"^^xsd:decimal with "1"^^xsd:string in data2.ttl
14:33:38 <AxelPolleres> (with one abstention by LeeF)
14:34:01 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: to change test case status for csv/tsv tests01-03.
14:34:01 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - to
14:34:24 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to change test case status for csv/tsv tests01-03.
14:34:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-522 - Change test case status for csv/tsv tests01-03. [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].
14:35:13 <Olivier> update test cases with silent
14:35:24 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/update-silent/
14:35:37 <kasei> note, the just approved proposal also needs to change csvtsv03.tsv along with data2.ttl.
14:37:16 <Olivier> I can hav a look
14:37:19 <Olivier> have
14:37:38 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Olivier to look into test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/update-silent/ for approval next time.
14:37:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-523 - Look into test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/update-silent/ for approval next time. [on Olivier Corby - due 2011-08-23].
14:38:20 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0183.html
14:39:43 <pgearon> q+
14:39:56 <AxelPolleres> " an empty graph being retrieved will not create a new graph in the graph store."
14:40:15 <LeeF> q-
14:41:51 <pgearon> q-
14:43:42 <AxelPolleres> plesae check re-wording suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0183.html
14:44:27 <AxelPolleres> "an empty graph being retrieved will not create a new graph in the graph store." will removing this be problematic for LC?
14:45:19 <AxelPolleres> AndyS: the sentence is ambiguous, and removing it in favor of the formal def overriding it should be ok as "editorial"
14:46:15 <AxelPolleres> let's get back to those test cases next time.
14:46:42 <AxelPolleres> topic: publishing other docs
14:47:33 <AxelPolleres> Axel and lee to push fwd on JSON and CSV/TSV results publication by next week.
14:47:45 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel and lee to push fwd on JSON and CSV/TSV results publication by next week.
14:47:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-524 - And lee to push fwd on JSON and CSV/TSV results publication by next week. [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].
14:48:52 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-501
14:48:52 <trackbot> ACTION-501 Review updates in Fed query doc (particularly section 2.4 and 4) for LC readiness closed
14:49:30 <AxelPolleres> action-514 continued...
14:50:14 <AxelPolleres> Overview doc now located here http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/
14:50:40 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to fix references in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/
14:50:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-525 - Fix references in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/ [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].
14:51:07 <AndyS> Review by Matt
14:51:35 <MattPerry> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0179.html
14:51:48 <AxelPolleres> axel will try to address matt's review to mayb vote for pub in the next week or two
14:52:16 <AxelPolleres> topic: comments & actions
14:52:27 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:52:46 <AndyS> I updated it today for RC-4.
14:54:34 <Olivier> Security issue in update
14:55:56 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:55:56 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:57:08 <Olivier> Comment on D-Entailment regime, about the chosen name
14:57:35 <AndyS> "D-Entailment for XSD datatypes"
14:57:44 <bglimm> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jul/0013
14:58:24 <AndyS> and other nasty DTs like XML literal (boo, hiss)
14:59:16 <AxelPolleres> Birte: suggests we either don't specify any prescribed datatypes or use RIF/OWL intersection.
14:59:32 <MattPerry> bye ... have another meeting
14:59:38 <Zakim> -MattPerry
15:00:29 <AxelPolleres> Birte will take the discussion on MS-6 on email.
15:00:55 <AndyS>  BTW: rdf:PlainLiteral link goes to RDF concepts for XML Literal
15:00:58 <AndyS> :-)
15:01:20 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
15:01:21 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:01:23 <Zakim> -cbuilara
15:01:25 <bglimm> bye
15:01:25 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:01:26 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:01:26 <Zakim> -alexpassant
15:01:28 <Zakim> -Olivier
15:01:33 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:01:34 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
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