Chatlog 2011-05-24

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<sandro> scribe: sandro
13:58:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:58:44 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:58:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:58:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:49 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:58:49 <trackbot> Date: 24 May 2011
13:59:01 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
13:59:01 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
13:59:17 <Zakim> +pgearon
13:59:30 <SteveH> Zakim, who's on the phone
13:59:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who's on the phone', SteveH
13:59:33 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
13:59:35 <SteveH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
13:59:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see NickH (muted), sandro, ??P9, pgearon, Lee_Feigenbaum
13:59:42 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P9 is me
13:59:42 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:00:00 <Zakim> +??P16
14:00:03 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:00:04 <AndyS> zakim, ??P16 is me
14:00:24 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:00:54 <AndyS> zakim, mute me
14:01:27 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Greg
14:01:28 <Zakim> AndyS should now be muted
14:01:28 <AndyS> zakim, don't bother, I'll use the local mute
14:01:34 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:01:38 <AndyS> zakim, unmute me
14:01:54 <Zakim> +??P24
14:02:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'don't bother, I'll use the local mute', AndyS
14:02:09 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P24 is me
14:02:10 <Zakim> AndyS should no longer be muted
14:02:14 <Zakim> -??P24
14:02:17 <Zakim> +??P17
14:02:22 <Zakim> I already had ??P24 as ??P24, bglimm
14:02:30 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P17 is me
14:02:44 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
14:02:46 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:02:59 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:03:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see NickH (muted), sandro, SteveH, pgearon, Lee_Feigenbaum, AndyS, MattPerry, bglimm
14:03:04 <LeeF> Agenda:
14:03:18 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:03:21 <LeeF> topic: Admin
14:03:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see MattPerry, RRSAgent, Zakim, cbuilara, bglimm, SteveH, AndyS, iv_an_ru__, LeeF, pgearon, NickH, alepas, ericP, kasei, trackbot, sandro
14:03:29 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
14:04:00 <AndyS> +1
14:04:02 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
14:04:12 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2011-05-31 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Matt) 
14:05:17 <Zakim> +??P32
14:05:23 <LeeF> close ACTION-463
14:05:24 <trackbot> ACTION-463 Have last look concerning LC readiness of Fed query document. closed
14:05:24 <cbuilara> zakim, ??P32 is me
14:05:31 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:05:33 <sandro> LeeF: (closing completed actions)
14:05:48 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:05:53 <chimezie> Zakim, code?
14:06:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie
14:06:41 <Zakim> +chimezie
14:06:43 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:06:43 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:07:03 <LeeF> close ACTION-464
14:07:03 <trackbot> ACTION-464 Approve changes regarding extensibility of json results format by allowing additional top-level keys closed
14:07:17 <LeeF> ACTION-386?
14:07:17 <trackbot> ACTION-386 -- Sandro Hawke to email to W3C to get shortname approved for JSON result doc -- due 2011-02-08 -- OPEN
14:07:17 <trackbot>
14:08:31 <AndyS> The short name is different  from the Note
14:09:08 <AndyS> rdf-sparql-json-res ==> sparql11-results-json
14:09:16 <chimezie> we should
14:09:33 <SteveH> I', not sure we discussed what happens at rec time
14:09:38 <SteveH> *I'm
14:09:57 <bglimm> but it is sill owl2-profiles etc
14:10:03 <bglimm> s/sill/still/
14:10:41 <bglimm> see e.g.
14:11:43 <sandro> sandro: leave rdf-sparql-json-res in place until sparql11-results-json gets to REC.
14:11:45 <AndyS> We can edit the Note to point to the Rec
14:12:15 <sandro> sandro: so mostly this looks like a FPWD, even though it's taking over for a NOTE.
14:12:31 <sandro> LeeF: No substantive change from the NOTE.
14:12:40 <sandro> sandro: Okay, I think I'm clear enough on this.
14:12:49 <LeeF> topic: Last Call
14:13:28 <sandro> lee: Looks like we're ready for FedQ and JRes to LC this week
14:13:50 <sandro> lee: Mid to late june for Protocol
14:14:11 <sandro> lee: it would be faster if someone else can lend a hand
14:14:25 <sandro> lee: Overview doc on a similar schedule
14:14:34 <sandro> lee: I'm happy with JRes doc.
14:14:43 <sandro> lee: Any other reviews?
14:15:06 <sandro> SteveH: I posted a message with some typos and minor issues, but summary is "it's fine"
14:15:13 <sandro> AndyS: Typos fixed.
14:15:25 <AndyS> Steve:
14:15:28 <sandro> Lee: AndyS you're happy with it going to LC now?
14:15:52 <sandro> sandro: i think we're out of moratorium.
14:16:02 <SteveH> +1 to a "week from today"
14:16:06 <sandro> lee: publish a week from today, 31 May?
14:17:09 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:17:09 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish as a Last Call Working Draft with publication date 2011-May-31 and reviews until 2011-July-29
14:17:29 <sandro> lee: same deadline as other LC drafts
14:17:29 <sandro> +1
14:17:30 <AndyS> +1
14:17:32 <cbuilara> +1
14:17:35 <MattPerry> +1
14:17:38 <Zakim> +??P17
14:17:44 <pgearon> +1
14:17:51 <chimezie> +1
14:17:54 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P17 is me
14:17:54 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:17:57 <bglimm> +1
14:18:02 <NickH> +1
14:18:06 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish as a Last Call Working Draft with publication date 2011-May-31 and reviews until 2011-July-29
14:18:06 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:18:06 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:18:26 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to coordinate publication of JSON results LC with Andy and Sandro
14:18:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-469 - Coordinate publication of JSON results LC with Andy and Sandro [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-05-31].
14:19:33 <sandro> Lee: On FedQ, I looked at it, Carlos did some small changes, Olivier looked at it, Carlos made more changes, we think it's ready
14:19:42 <sandro> cbuilara: Yes, I think it's ready for Last Call
14:20:10 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish as a Last Call Working Draft with publication date 2011-May-31 and reviews until 2011-July-29
14:20:22 <sandro> +1
14:20:22 <cbuilara> +1
14:20:31 <Zakim> +EricP
14:22:08 <sandro> lee: EricP, do you need a few more days to review this?
14:22:39 <sandro> ericP: I'll let you know if I find a showstopper.  If you don't hear from me, go ahead and publish next week.
14:22:46 <sandro> lee: Agreed.
14:23:11 <sandro> lee: If you find a problem that's not easily fixed, that'll be new information and we can revisit this next week.
14:23:50 <sandro> lee: I don't want to play too fast and loose with the process; we'll talk about any changes via email.
14:23:59 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish as a Last Call Working Draft with publication date 2011-May-31 and reviews until 2011-July-29
14:24:40 <sandro> cbuilara: Some fixes still needed for pubrules checker.
14:24:40 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to coordinate publication of federated query LC with Carlos and Sandro
14:24:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-470 - Coordinate publication of federated query LC with Carlos and Sandro [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-05-31].
14:24:50 <LeeF> ACTION: Carlos to fix pub-rules issues for federated query
14:24:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-471 - Fix pub-rules issues for federated query [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-05-31].
14:25:58 <sandro> sandro: is sotd of jres ready?
14:26:39 <sandro> sandro: main thing it needs is a sentence or two explaining how/why it's different from the NOTE.
14:26:49 <sandro> AndyS: I'll do that soon, maybe today, and mail the list
14:26:59 <LeeF> topic: Comments
14:27:37 <LeeF>
14:27:59 <sandro> sandro: (you can use the wiki <html> ... </html> wrapper to use HTML syntax instead of wiki tables, if you like.)
14:28:21 <sandro> LeeF: Two new comments, both about graph store
14:28:36 <LeeF>
14:28:46 <sandro> LeeF: IM-1 and Simon...'s 
14:28:48 <LeeF> chimezie, are you around?
14:29:22 <chimezie> sorry
14:29:29 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:29:29 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:31:13 <sandro> AndyS: He's a member of the WG, so he already had to opportunity to comment BEFORE LC.
14:31:59 <sandro> Lee: Let's (have Chime) take a look and see what the issue is, before worrying about the procedural site of things.
14:32:15 <sandro> (talking about Ivan Mikhailov's comment,
14:32:52 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:33:15 <Zakim> +??P17
14:33:21 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P17 is me
14:33:21 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:33:24 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:33:26 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:35:32 <LeeF> LeeF: Kjetil sent a reply to our reply, chimezie needs to look through it at his convenience to see what a further reply should be
14:36:09 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:36:09 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:36:16 <sandro> Lee: (describes some little updates to the Comments table)
14:36:17 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to update comments wiki for Markus and Graham's ACKs
14:36:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-472 - Update comments wiki for Markus and Graham's ACKs [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-05-31].
14:36:36 <LeeF> topic: test cases
14:37:00 <LeeF>
14:37:06 <sandro> LeeF: Andy pointed out an error in test case
14:37:27 <sandro> ... Andy checked in corrected result to CVS
14:37:38 <sandro> AndyS: Both my engines pass it now.
14:37:44 <AndyS> Thanks to @RobVesse for the report 
14:38:09 <sandro> LeeF: Greg and Paul concur with this correction
14:38:41 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve test case bindings07 as modified per
14:39:03 <sandro> +1
14:39:12 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve test case bindings07 as modified per
14:39:22 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to update approval information for bindings07
14:39:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-473 - Update approval information for bindings07 [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-05-31].
14:39:39 <LeeF>
14:39:49 <sandro> LeeF: cbuilara sent service tests
14:40:13 <sandro> AndyS: I'll try to look at them in the next week.
14:40:28 <sandro> LeeF: Anyone else have an implementation of SERVICE?
14:40:37 <sandro> ericP: I do.  I'll try running them.
14:40:41 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to look at SERVICE tests
14:40:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-474 - Look at SERVICE tests [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-05-31].
14:40:44 <LeeF> ACTION: Eric to look at SERVICE tests
14:40:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-475 - Look at SERVICE tests [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2011-05-31].
14:42:01 <AndyS> Syntax error : line 38
14:42:23 <ericP> AndyS, where are you reading them from?
14:42:29 <sandro> LeeF: I'm not sure these are going to work....   These test rely on, but we don't have a manifest vocab to say what you should set up and pretend is
14:42:49 <AndyS> Syntax error : line 38, 47, 56 
14:43:26 <sandro> LeeF: Where in the manifest/data does it say what you should pretend is at
14:43:26 <AndyS> No tests b5...b8
14:43:39 <NickH> can someone post a link to the tests?
14:43:53 <sandro> cbuilara: ...
14:43:59 <LeeF>
14:44:15 <cbuilara> \WWW\2009\sparql\docs\tests\data-sparql11\service
14:44:49 <cbuilara> The filenames point to the data that should in the endpoint
14:44:57 <sandro> LeeF: I can imagine two ways to test service.  (1) have remote end points be something under our control, or (2) in manifest, tell testing engine to set up an environement with the right data
14:44:58 <AndyS>  SERVICE <> ==> no such service.  Data in the test ==> need a SPARQL Update?
14:45:14 <sandro> LeeF: Currently it's implicit in names of data files.
14:45:36 <sandro> Lee: Seems like a lot of work to do (2)
14:46:14 <cbuilara> I set up my own SPARQL endpoints in my machine to do the testing
14:46:16 <sandro> sandro: Maybe do both, at the same time.   Have the manifest say what you can replace of our environment.
14:46:28 <sandro> AndyS: Can we do it with a single data file, on localhost ?
14:46:29 <ericP> +1 to supplying an endpoint
14:46:45 <ericP> i think that will simplify a lot of people's lives
14:47:27 <sandro> LeeF: Andy, you're saying the local data could be one endpoint?  RIght now it's four endpoints.
14:47:37 <sandro> LeeF: How about if we supply the end points?
14:47:41 <sandro> AndyS: That'd be fine.
14:48:04 <sandro> LeeF: Right now, it's implicit in the filename.
14:48:32 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:48:52 <Zakim> +??P6
14:48:55 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P6 is me
14:48:55 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:48:59 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:48:59 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:49:40 <sandro> ericP: I did a whole setup to run servers and shut them down when it's over.
14:50:13 <sandro> LeeF: it doesn't need to be a complicated endpoint, but it does have to support BINDING.   How complex is this?
14:50:27 <sandro> ericP: Could maybe just serve static page....
14:50:52 <sandro> LeeF: If I generate a bogus query, it should fail the test.
14:51:13 <sandro> AndyS: Static page assume you know how it;s going to do the service call -- all at once, or in little bits.
14:51:19 <sandro> ericP: Ah, yes, oops.
14:51:40 <sandro> LeeF: So, a little sparql server, with a little fixed data, and BINDINGS.
14:52:05 <sandro> ericP: If we do it at, we have to ask systems team to host it in perpetuity.
14:52:28 <sandro> lee: Does this need to be in perpetuity, really?
14:52:45 <AndyS> I can't promise more than a few months (and no restart if I'm on holiday or travelling)
14:52:50 <sandro> ericP: systems support issue is legacy code.  If we set 1year window or something, that would help.
14:53:04 <sandro> LeeF: and if the manifest gives enough to recreate the setup, that helps, too.
14:53:36 <sandro> ericP:And the static page we put there when we shut it down, it can say how to recreate it.   Only downside is we've hijack'd a domain name at that point.
14:54:35 <sandro> sandro: I think the manifest just says which URL is the endpoint you might need to over-ride with your own endpoint URL.
14:54:39 <sandro> eric: Yep
14:54:55 <sandro> LeeF:Sounds good. We'll hold off on approving these quite yet.
14:55:02 <sandro> ericP: I think my code will support these.
14:55:28 <sandro> LeeF: cbuilara some of these test call out out to 2+ end points, right?
14:55:40 <sandro> cbuilara: They call 2 endpoints.
14:55:47 <AndyS> Can we change it to one host name, 2 different endpoints?
14:55:52 <sandro> cbuilara: it would be easy to make it more than 2.
14:56:04 <LeeF> ACTION: Eric to talk to w3 systems team about hosting two simple sparql endpoints for testing SERVICE
14:56:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-476 - Talk to w3 systems team about hosting two simple sparql endpoints for testing SERVICE [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2011-05-31].
14:56:43 <sandro> sandro: something like and ep2 right?
14:56:47 <sandro> LeeF: That would be perfect
14:56:56 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to work with Carlos and Sandro on manifest vocabulary for testing SERVICE
14:56:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-477 - Work with Carlos and Sandro on manifest vocabulary for testing SERVICE [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-05-31].
14:57:23 <sandro> sandro: Probably not ideal to have me in the critical path right now