Chatlog 2011-02-15

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14:56:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:56:32 <RRSAgent> logging to
14:56:38 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:56:46 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:56:46 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:50 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:57:00 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
14:57:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:06 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:57:06 <trackbot> Date: 15 February 2011
14:57:39 <AxelPolleres> Agenda:
14:57:45 <ocorby> ocorby has joined #sparql
14:57:45 <AxelPolleres> Chair: Axel Polleres
14:58:01 <AxelPolleres> Regrets: Paul, NickH, Chime 
14:59:16 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
15:01:50 <AndyS> Re "Service vs. Graphstore?" -- I believe this is sorted now - the doc has URLs that make it clear.
15:02:40 <AlexPassant> AlexPassant has joined #sparql
15:02:58 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:03:16 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, ocorby, NicoM, bglimm (muted)
15:03:24 <AxelPolleres> scribe: carlos
15:04:11 <AxelPolleres>
15:04:23 <AxelPolleres> topic: admin
15:04:28 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #sparql
15:04:34 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at
15:05:09 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at
15:05:24 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #sparql
15:05:29 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: look at comments page
15:05:36 <AxelPolleres>
15:05:46 <Zakim> +AlexPassant
15:05:54 <SteveH__> SteveH__ has joined #sparql
15:05:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to update comments page
15:05:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-390 - Update comments page [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22].
15:06:23 <LeeF> I need Chime to look at my response for GR, but I'll ping him offline
15:06:23 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Does anybody need confirmation for responses?
15:07:27 <AndyS> response for GK-1 in progress
15:07:47 <AndyS> scribe: cbuilara
15:08:02 <AndyS> Regrets for next week: AndyS
15:08:17 <AxelPolleres> topic: to last call
15:08:27 <AxelPolleres>
15:08:48 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Andy, quick report on query
15:09:13 <cbuilara> AndyS: nothing to comment
15:09:31 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: status of section 11?
15:09:37 <AxelPolleres> steve?
15:09:54 <AxelPolleres> steveh any news on section 11? 
15:10:01 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, sorry, I'm having comms problems, can't connect to london, and out voip system wont dial international numbers
15:10:09 <SteveH> will be on viaskype shortly
15:10:18 <AxelPolleres> let's take this to mail so.
15:10:23 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Talk this by email
15:10:34 <AxelPolleres> let us know status updates on section 11 and schedule, if possible
15:10:59 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Steve, report on section 11
15:11:30 <cbuilara> SteveH: I made change removing errors, section is complete
15:11:39 <cbuilara> SteveH: section is ready for review
15:13:14 <AxelPolleres>
15:13:52 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we want to have a handle to the number of errors in the aggregate (in their semantics)
15:14:28 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: proposal, drop this requirement (handling of errors)
15:14:32 <AxelPolleres>
15:14:50 <AndyS> q+
15:14:52 <LeeF> Does anyone remember if the # of errors supported a paricular use case? all i remember is that it seemed like a nice thing to do at the time
15:15:05 <AxelPolleres> proposal...
15:15:11 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Drop error counts in the semantics definition of aggregate functions, overriding with the insight that it is not needed/special aggregates could define/implement error counts.
15:15:25 <AxelPolleres> Andy: proposal doesn't cover all
15:16:42 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well
15:17:17 <AndyS> ^h^h^
15:17:32 <SteveH> seconded
15:17:44 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: hppy with LeeF proposal
15:17:51 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well, overriding 
15:18:00 <SteveH> seconded
15:18:01 <LeeF> seconded
15:18:04 <LeeF> thirded
15:18:10 <NicoM> +1
15:18:13 <bglimm> +1
15:18:17 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Aggregates are not passed a dedicated count of errors, but instead are passed a multiset of values that includes errors as well, overriding
15:18:39 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Anything more Steve?
15:19:10 <AxelPolleres>
15:19:39 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: section 11 is also ready for review
15:20:27 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: section 18 keep updating for when the document is ready for review
15:21:12 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: matt to review Query, particularly Section 18
15:21:26 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: matthew to review Query, particularly Section 18
15:21:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-391 - Review Query, particularly Section 18 [on Matthew Perry - due 2011-02-22].
15:22:21 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Lee to review query
15:22:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-392 - Review query [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-02-22].
15:22:34 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to review query
15:22:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-393 - Review query [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22].
15:22:47 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Update document
15:22:52 <AxelPolleres> subtopic: update
15:23:08 <LeeF> I just sent an email about it.
15:23:14 <LeeF> I'm not inclined to re-open that issue.
15:23:32 <cbuilara> ocorby: blank nodes comment, still waiting for feedback, formal model -> issue with xml, it will be online
15:23:58 <cbuilara> ocorby: formal model will be ready for review
15:24:10 <cbuilara> ocorby: waiting for comments
15:24:12 <AlexPassant> s/ocorby/AlexPassant
15:26:09 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: wait for what Paul can do in the document before going to last call
15:26:19 <AxelPolleres> if anybody has concrete proposal, please mail/respond!
15:26:20 <cbuilara> AxellPolleres: people can still make proposals
15:26:38 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: protocol, any progress there?
15:26:46 <LeeF> (As I understand it, Paul is Ok with making the change in the document, he just wanted to ask about the resolution.)
15:27:24 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Topic: Service desription
15:28:17 <cbuilara> kasei: modelling currently has services as distinct from the URL which access an endpoint
15:28:44 <cbuilara> kasei: the issue is whether the service should actually be the endpoint url
15:28:57 <SteveH> q+
15:29:03 <cbuilara> kasei: Andy had a good summary email
15:29:27 <AndyS> "Service" and "Service endpoint"
15:30:04 <cbuilara> kasei: any comments?
15:30:36 <LeeF> (silence)
15:30:58 <LeeF> ack AndyS
15:31:01 <LeeF> ack SteveH
15:32:12 <kasei> q+
15:32:52 <LeeF> ack kasei
15:32:56 <cbuilara> kasei: dropping the URL would make me happy, but I'm comfortable with ANdy's description
15:33:18 <LeeF> (sounds good to me)
15:33:44 <cbuilara> kasei: favor not dropping the URL as long as it meets the conformance test
15:34:12 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any objections?
15:34:57 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
15:34:57 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
15:34:58 <cbuilara> topic: Entailment
15:35:09 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: Any news?
15:35:10 <LeeF> I haven't heard anything from Clark & Parsia
15:35:36 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: briefing the reviewers, email on the test cases
15:35:37 <MattPerry> I'm pretty sure Zhe's review is finished
15:35:40 <bglimm> Yes
15:35:46 <bglimm> I think my mic is not working
15:35:48 <bglimm> Yes
15:35:55 <bglimm> I am fine with that, will check the email
15:36:03 <MattPerry> ok
15:36:11 <cbuilara> Topic: Fed query
15:36:19 <bglimm> I haven't heard back from Zhe, but I think I addressed it
15:36:40 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
15:36:40 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
15:37:28 <cbuilara> cbuilara: fix all these by end of February
15:37:32 <AxelPolleres> carlos: will finish including comments by end of the months
15:38:16 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: if you need any comment Carlos, bring it up at the list
15:38:19 <cbuilara> zakim, mute me
15:38:19 <Zakim> cbuilara should now be muted
15:38:32 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:38:35 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any more comment?
15:38:52 <AxelPolleres> Axel: JSON still needs maybe editing power to include comments
15:39:30 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: not much progress
15:39:37 <AxelPolleres> ... Overview doc not much progress
15:40:01 <AxelPolleres> topic: test status
15:40:22 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: not much mail about that topic
15:40:43 <AndyS> PP changes
15:40:45 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: is anything more test cases can be conformed?
15:42:19 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Matthew to look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary
15:42:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-394 - Look over PP test cases and check whether they still apply, change if necessary [on Matthew Perry - due 2011-02-22].
15:42:42 <bglimm> Yes, sorted. I just reply to your email
15:43:25 <cbuilara> topic: Issue status
15:43:37 <AxelPolleres> topic: ORDER in GROUP_CONCAT
15:44:07 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we have decided that we won't have an order parameter for GROUP_CONCAT
15:44:10 <AxelPolleres>
15:44:54 <AndyS> As this has come up, maybe it's quicker to do it than deal with comments
15:45:01 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: we don't think we can do it in a reasonable time, moved to postponed issues, opinions?
15:45:18 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: can we do it?
15:46:10 <cbuilara> AndyS: I was suggesting that the order by affect the group concat itself
15:46:32 <SteveH> q+
15:46:48 <cbuilara> SteveH: it is probably too much work at this stage
15:47:06 <cbuilara> SteveH: not just the order by applies to all aggregates
15:48:50 <AndyS> """Sample(M) = v, where v in Flatten(M)"""
15:49:46 <kasei> yes
15:49:51 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: go ahead, Steve, if you have time edit it, if not, move to postponed issues
15:49:57 <SteveH> I won't have time to edit it
15:50:11 <LeeF> Probably
15:50:31 <AxelPolleres> propose to raise an ISSUE now and just see whether we can have time to address it before LC
15:50:45 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: is that ok?
15:50:47 <AxelPolleres> objections?
15:50:53 <AndyS> abstain
15:51:11 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: go ahead with it
15:51:45 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE: Should there be an ORDER BY for aggregates, particularly GROUP_CONCAT
15:51:45 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-66 - Should there be an ORDER BY for aggregates, particularly GROUP_CONCAT ; please complete additional details at .
15:52:22 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: issues list
15:52:50 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: sparql update issue addressed? anything ongoing?
15:52:54 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:53:26 <AlexPassant> there's section "A Security Considerations (Informative)" on the new doc
15:53:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 Security issues on SPARQL/UPdate notes added
15:53:58 <kasei> i think 33 can be closed because we're not doing wsdl anymore
15:54:39 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: do we still have to discuss all the http errors? I will talk to Lee on that issue
15:54:53 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to get in touch with lee on ISSUE-33 (on the mailinglist)
15:54:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-395 - Get in touch with lee on ISSUE-33 (on the mailinglist) [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-22].
15:54:58 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: on the mailing list
15:55:21 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: protocols should remain open
15:56:19 <NicoM> action 356 on SD review can be closed
15:56:19 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 356
15:56:24 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-384
15:56:24 <trackbot> ACTION-384 Review fed query closed
15:56:33 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-385
15:56:33 <trackbot> ACTION-385 Review fed query closed
15:56:56 <cbuilara> AxelPolleres: any other issue for the day?
15:57:03 <SteveH> bye all
15:57:05 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
15:57:41 <SteveH> AxelPolleres, sorry I couldn't scribe, phone system here is failing
15:57:47 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
15:57:56 <AxelPolleres> Steveh, ok to scribe next week?
15:59:23 <AxelPolleres> thanks all!
15:59:24 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql
15:59:25 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
15:59:26 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:59:28 <Zakim> Attendees were cbuilara, kasei, AxelPolleres, +34.92.38.aaaa, AndyS, ocorby, +49.911.973.4.aabb, NicoM, bglimm, MattPerry, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, AlexPassant, SteveH
15:59:52 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #sparql