Chatlog 2010-07-13

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13:56:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:56:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-sparql-irc
13:56:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
13:56:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:56:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:26 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:56:26 <trackbot> Date: 13 July 2010
13:56:28 <LeeF> zakim, this will be sparql
13:56:31 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:40 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #sparql
13:58:04 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:58:12 <Zakim> + +44.186.528.aaaa
13:58:27 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.528.aaaa is me
13:58:27 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
13:59:02 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:14 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aabb
13:59:26 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
13:59:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
13:59:28 <OlivierCorby> Zakim, aabb is me
13:59:30 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby; got it
13:59:30 <Zakim> +Ivan
13:59:34 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:59:46 <AndyS> zakim, +[IPCaller] is me
13:59:47 <mperry> mperry has joined #sparql
13:59:51 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPCaller]'
13:59:52 <Zakim> +??P14
13:59:55 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P14 is me
13:59:59 <kasei> we should teach Zakim to recognize AndyS by the typing noises :)
14:00:01 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
14:00:04 <AndyS> zakim, +IPCaller is me
14:00:09 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '+IPCaller'
14:00:15 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:00:18 <AndyS> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
14:00:21 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:00:21 <LeeF> zakim, IPCaller is AndyS
14:00:26 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
14:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
14:00:45 <mperry> zakim, aacc is me
14:00:50 <Zakim> + +44.208.439.aadd
14:00:52 <Zakim> +mperry; got it
14:00:52 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:00:53 <Souri> Souri has joined #sparql
14:00:54 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
14:00:56 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:00:58 <SteveH_> Zakim, aadd is me
14:01:00 <Zakim> +SteveH_; got it
14:01:03 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm (muted), kasei, OlivierCorby, Ivan, AndyS, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum, mperry, SteveH_, +1.603.897.aaee
14:01:18 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-07-13
14:01:19 <Souri> zakim, aaee is me
14:01:19 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
14:01:51 <kasei> where is the test CVS? same as docs?
14:01:54 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:02:05 <chimezie> Zakim, what is the passcode?
14:02:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), chimezie
14:02:13 <kasei> thanks
14:02:18 <LeeF> e.g. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/
14:02:48 <Zakim> + +1.216.636.aaff
14:03:01 <chimezie> Zakim, +1.216.636.aaff is me
14:03:01 <Zakim> +chimezie; got it
14:03:25 <AlexPassant> ok
14:03:33 <LeeF> Scribenick: AlexPassant
14:03:33 <LeeF> Regrets: AxelPolleres
14:04:10 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-07-06
14:04:39 <AlexPassant> LeeF: minutes of last week, long discussion LET and assignement
14:05:14 <AlexPassant> ... suggestion to have implementers write up the semantics on the list
14:05:19 <AlexPassant> ... to take a decision
14:05:25 <AlexPassant> ... done by AndyS  and LeeF 
14:05:30 <AlexPassant> ... pgearon will also do
14:05:40 <AlexPassant> ... then we could take a decision
14:05:44 <AlexPassant> ... as done for negation in the past
14:06:02 <AlexPassant> ... decision by web-based survey or t-con
14:06:07 <AlexPassant> ... first option is probably better
14:06:11 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-07-06
14:06:19 <LeeF> Next regular meeting: 2010-07-20 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EDT
14:06:19 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:06:22 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:07:06 <AlexPassant> ... will try to send test cases to the list
14:07:21 <AlexPassant> ... TC will be in CVS
14:07:43 <AlexPassant> ... if collecting TC, sync with LeeF sandro ivan or Axel for CVS access
14:07:56 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:07:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see bglimm (muted), kasei, OlivierCorby, Ivan, AndyS, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum, mperry, SteveH_, Souri, chimezie (muted)
14:08:21 <AlexPassant> ... RDB2RDF published the 1st draft of UCR
14:08:27 <AlexPassant> ... mapping languages, etc.
14:08:37 <LeeF> topic: test cases
14:08:46 <LeeF> subtopic: subquery
14:09:04 <AlexPassant> ... OlivierCorby put TC
14:09:05 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0010.html
14:09:14 <AlexPassant> ... Andy raised questions and observations
14:09:19 <AlexPassant> ... discussions on the previous thread
14:09:35 <AlexPassant> ... look at each TC and discuss / approve
14:09:40 <AlexPassant> ... 10 TC
14:10:55 <AlexPassant> ... Tests 1 and 2
14:11:03 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest.ttl
14:11:11 <LeeF> :subquery01 rdf:type mf:QueryEvaluationTest ;
14:11:11 <LeeF>     mf:name    "Subquery within graph pattern" ;
14:11:11 <LeeF>     dawgt:approval dawgt:NotClassified ;
14:11:11 <LeeF>     mf:action
14:11:11 <LeeF>          [ qt:query  <sq01.rq> ;
14:11:12 <LeeF>            qt:graphData   <sq01.rdf> ] ;
14:11:14 <LeeF>     mf:result  <sq01.srx>
14:11:16 <LeeF>     .
14:11:18 <AlexPassant> ... manifest file, walk through the first one
14:11:21 <AlexPassant> ... query evaluation test
14:11:45 <AlexPassant> ... predicate for approval
14:11:51 <kasei> in the future, can I suggest indenting the query source and results xml? makes reading them much easier (at least for me)
14:11:58 <AlexPassant> ... result as an XML file
14:12:05 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq01.rdf
14:12:52 <LeeF> 'rdf:resource=""'
14:12:59 <kasei> :c :p <sq01.rdf>
14:13:07 <chimezie> empty URI reference
14:13:09 <ivan> same as <> in turtle
14:13:10 <AndyS> Base URI
14:13:19 <LeeF> prefix ex:	<http://www.example.org/schema#>
14:13:19 <LeeF> prefix in:	<http://www.example.org/instance#>
14:13:19 <LeeF> select  ?x ?p where {
14:13:19 <LeeF> graph ?g {
14:13:19 <LeeF> {select * where {?x ?p ?y}}
14:13:20 <LeeF> }
14:13:22 <LeeF> }
14:13:35 <AlexPassant> ... query with a graph clause
14:13:56 <LeeF> expected results - http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq01.srx
14:14:16 <AlexPassant> ... projecting the top level query
14:14:34 <AlexPassant> ... get subject and predicate from the triples
14:16:11 <LeeF> @prefix : <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data-r2/basic/manifest#> .
14:16:25 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#
14:16:31 <AlexPassant> ... current manifest should probably be updated
14:16:38 <SteveH_> yes, because the manifest has changed
14:16:45 <AlexPassant> AndyS: agreed
14:16:48 <SteveH_> manifest schema that is
14:16:53 <AlexPassant> LeeF: update the prefix manifest
14:17:12 <AndyS> This is the URI of the test itself.
14:17:38 <Zakim> +pgearon
14:17:47 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery01
14:18:31 <AndyS>  http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/subquery01
14:19:41 <AlexPassant> Souri: cannot see the refreshed version 
14:19:48 <AlexPassant> LeeF: mirrors are not always synced
14:19:55 <AndyS> It has just refreshed for me (14:17)
14:20:00 <AlexPassant> ... may need several refreshs
14:20:34 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery01
14:20:36 <pgearon> abstain. I came in too late
14:21:01 <AlexPassant> ... 2nd TC
14:21:09 <AlexPassant> ... same dataset but different query
14:21:19 <LeeF> prefix ex:	<http://www.example.org/schema#>
14:21:19 <LeeF> prefix in:	<http://www.example.org/instance#>
14:21:19 <LeeF> select  ?x ?p where {
14:21:19 <LeeF> graph ?g {
14:21:19 <LeeF> {select * where {?x ?p ?g}}
14:21:20 <LeeF> }
14:21:22 <LeeF> }
14:21:37 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq02.srx
14:22:03 <AlexPassant> ... query nested in a graph clause
14:22:30 <SteveH_> q+
14:22:33 <AlexPassant> ... looks ok to LeeF 
14:22:35 <LeeF> ack SteveH_
14:23:42 <AlexPassant> SteveH_: question about the status of abstain
14:24:53 <AlexPassant> LeeF: do not like to approve tasks that no one executed
14:25:04 <AlexPassant> ... may delay some tasks
14:25:54 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery02
14:26:01 <SteveH_> abstain
14:26:01 <AndyS> seconded
14:26:12 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery02
14:26:59 <AndyS> I now agree with test 3.
14:27:35 <AlexPassant> ... TC3, same data
14:27:47 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq03.rq
14:27:53 <AlexPassant> ... different use case of ?g from the previous one
14:27:59 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/sq03.srx
14:28:01 <AlexPassant> ... expected results: 2 bindings
14:28:26 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery03
14:28:53 <LeeF> 'rdf:resource="'
14:28:55 <LeeF> 'rdf:resource=""'
14:28:55 <AlexPassant> Souri: where do we have the graph name ?
14:29:03 <AlexPassant> LeeF: rdf:resource="" refers to the base URI
14:29:10 <AlexPassant> ... which is also the graph name in the manifest
14:29:20 <LeeF> graph name is object of qt:graphData preficate 
14:29:42 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:29:42 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:29:43 <chimezie> q+
14:29:56 <LeeF> ack chimezie
14:30:11 <AlexPassant> chimezie: follow-up, graph name allocated in the manifest is the baseURI of the source file ?
14:30:18 <AlexPassant> AndyS: no that's where you read the file from
14:30:33 <AlexPassant> ... you cant have a name in one place and the data in another
14:31:31 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:31:31 <Zakim> chimezie should now be muted
14:31:50 <AlexPassant> LeeF: graph name is given in the manifest
14:32:44 <AlexPassant> ... named graph in the RDF dataset are defined by qt:graphData predicate
14:33:54 <LeeF> 'rdf:resource=""'
14:34:40 <SteveH_> abstain
14:34:47 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery03
14:34:51 <AndyS> seconded
14:36:02 <kasei> sq04.rq uses a FROM uri that doesn't exist (?)
14:36:03 <LeeF> test 4 defines a named graph  qt:graphData   <sq01.rdf> 
14:36:09 <AlexPassant> LeeF: Test 4, defines a named graph
14:36:18 <LeeF> in the query it uses FROM from <sq04.rdf>
14:36:27 <AlexPassant> ... uses FROM in the query
14:36:30 <LeeF> Olivier's email - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0014.html
14:36:40 <AlexPassant> ... understanding from OlivierCorby email is to show that inside the graph clause
14:37:00 <AlexPassant> ... the subquery is only matching against the main graph of the dataset
14:37:29 <AlexPassant> ... if we include a graph both in the manifest and the query
14:37:36 <AlexPassant> ... the dataset is not a union of both
14:39:39 <AlexPassant> LeeF: if we want to show that the FROM does not apply, maybe it should be an empty graph
14:39:48 <AlexPassant> OlivierCorby: better to use a graph that exists for the FROM ?
14:39:51 <AlexPassant> LeeF: probably
14:40:19 <AndyS> [ qt:query  <sq04.rq> ; qt:data <anything_different_but_exists> ; qt:graphData   <sq01.rdf> ]
14:43:07 <AlexPassant> LeeF: maniest updated in CVS
14:44:11 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery04
14:44:20 <SteveH_> abstain
14:44:38 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve test http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/subquery/manifest#subquery04
14:45:47 <AndyS> Test 8 comment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0021.html
14:46:16 <AlexPassant> LeeF: test8, inner select
14:46:42 <LeeF> prefix ex:	<http://www.example.org/schema#>
14:46:42 <LeeF> prefix in:	<http://www.example.org/instance#>
14:46:42 <LeeF> select ?x ?max where {
14:46:42 <LeeF> {select max(?y) as ?max where {?x ex:p ?y} } 
14:46:42 <LeeF> ?x ex:p ?max
14:46:43 <LeeF> }
14:46:44 <AlexPassant> OlivierCorby: corrected query 8
14:46:48 <AlexPassant> ... problem with variable ?x
14:49:40 <mperry> How is no group by not a problem?
14:50:11 <mperry> ok
14:50:46 <AlexPassant> LeeF: will fix everything in CVS with AndyS  and OlivierCorby 
14:51:42 <AlexPassant> ... dont want to go through all TC now
14:51:46 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:51:46 <Zakim> chimezie should no longer be muted
14:51:55 <chimezie> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JulSep/0005.html
14:52:25 <AlexPassant> chimezie: using MINUS the girht hand side does not have access to the variables from the left ?
14:52:30 <AlexPassant> LeeF: yes
14:52:34 <AlexPassant> s/girht/right
14:52:45 <AlexPassant> ... will fix in CVS before the next TC
14:52:59 <kasei> I'm mostly able to run them.
14:53:08 <AlexPassant> ... anyone able to run the tasks ?
14:53:13 <pgearon> I can run a lot of them, but not the update tests
14:53:14 <kasei> might take some coaxing, but close...
14:53:17 <AndyS> I'm not able to run update tests yet.
14:53:19 <chimezie> the only implentation contribution to the test process i will be able to give will be with SPARQL entailment probably
14:53:28 <pgearon> but I don't have much of SPARQL 1.1 implemented
14:53:40 <AlexPassant> ... want to start gathering the UDPATE tasks
14:54:17 <LeeF> topic: reset operation in Update?
14:55:46 <AlexPassant> question is should DROP ALL include only named graphs or also the default one
14:56:40 <pgearon> I wouldn't mind knowing what people would prefer
14:57:33 <mperry> I would say drop everything named and default
14:57:55 <chimezie> if there is already a way to specifically drop the default graph, I would prefer DROP ALL only deletes named graphs
14:58:13 <AlexPassant> what about DROP NAMED ?
14:58:45 <LeeF> DROP DEFAULT / DROP NAMED / DROP ALL seems reasonably elegant 
14:58:46 <AlexPassant> DROP DEFAULT / DROP NAMED / DROP ALL ?
15:00:19 <AlexPassant> Ill followup with these 3 options on the list
15:00:37 <ivan> zakim, drop me
15:00:37 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:00:39 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:00:40 <Zakim> -chimezie
15:00:41 <bglimm> bye
15:00:44 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
15:00:46 <Zakim> -bglimm
15:00:48 <Zakim> -pgearon
15:00:52 <Zakim> -mperry
15:01:04 <LeeF> action-266?
15:01:04 <trackbot> ACTION-266 -- Gregory Williams to write a mail to the list on the issue of DS-1 and what are the options -- due 2010-07-06 -- OPEN
15:01:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/266
15:01:08 <Zakim> -SteveH_
15:01:12 <LeeF> trackbot, close action-266
15:01:12 <trackbot> ACTION-266 Write a mail to the list on the issue of DS-1 and what are the options closed
15:01:22 <LeeF> action-251?
15:01:22 <trackbot> ACTION-251 -- Gregory Williams to send test cases for 0-length paths to mailing list -- due 2010-06-03 -- OPEN
15:01:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/251
15:01:23 <Zakim> -Souri
15:01:32 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:01:35 <AlexPassant> RRSAgent: make minutes
15:01:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/07/13-sparql-minutes.html AlexPassant
15:01:40 <SteveH_> ther's a lot of delay in zakim
15:01:44 <Zakim> -kasei
15:01:48 <LeeF> trackbot, close action-251
15:01:48 <trackbot> ACTION-251 Send test cases for 0-length paths to mailing list closed
15:01:50 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
15:02:05 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
15:02:07 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:02:08 <Zakim> Attendees were bglimm, kasei, +33.4.92.38.aabb, OlivierCorby, Ivan, AlexPassant, Lee_Feigenbaum, AndyS, +1.603.897.aacc, +44.208.439.aadd, mperry, +1.603.897.aaee, SteveH_, Souri,
15:02:10 <Zakim> ... chimezie, pgearon
15:03:27 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs public
# SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC.  DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW.  SRCLINESUSED=00000280