Chatlog 2010-06-29

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14:00:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:00:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-sparql-irc
14:00:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:00:36 <bglimm> Zakim, I am here
14:00:36 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not see a party named 'here'
14:00:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
14:00:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:39 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:00:39 <trackbot> Date: 29 June 2010
14:00:42 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
14:00:44 <LeeF> zakim, this is SPARQL
14:00:44 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
14:00:47 <bglimm> Zakim, I am bglimm
14:00:47 <Zakim> sorry, bglimm, I do not see a party named 'bglimm'
14:00:53 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:00:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgearon, OlivierCorby, +44.186.528.aaaa, kasei, +1.603.897.aabb
14:00:58 <Zakim> - +44.186.528.aaaa
14:00:59 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
14:01:09 <LeeF> zakim, code?
14:01:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF
14:01:18 <MattPerry> zakim, aabb is me
14:01:18 <Zakim> +MattPerry; got it
14:01:47 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
14:01:56 <pgearon> morning Axel
14:01:58 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:02:06 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aacc
14:02:13 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:02:15 <LeeF> zakim, aacc is me
14:02:18 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:02:20 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:02:29 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgearon, OlivierCorby, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), LeeF
14:02:38 <bglimm> I am just dialing in again
14:02:46 <Zakim> + +44.186.528.aadd
14:02:55 <bglimm> Zakim, +44.186.528.aadd is me
14:02:55 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:03:02 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:03:02 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:03:23 <LeeF> (for the record, next week I'd like to discuss LET and also start reviewing & approving test cases)
14:03:25 <AxelPolleres> scribe: paul gearon
14:03:30 <LeeF> scribenick: pgearon
14:03:37 <LeeF> Chair: AxelPolleres
14:03:42 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-29
14:03:43 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-06-29
14:04:18 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Focus on admin issues today. Action issues, etc
14:04:44 <bglimm> Axel, are you still talking? I can't hear any more
14:04:52 <pgearon> focus on tech issues tomorrow in upcoming testcases call
14:04:53 <bglimm> :-(
14:04:55 <Zakim> +??P1
14:04:57 <bglimm> silence
14:05:08 <NicholasH> Zakim,  ??P1 is me
14:05:14 <Zakim> +NicholasH; got it
14:05:21 <bglimm> Yes, our telephone system has problems today and Zakim forces me to call US
14:05:27 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:05:27 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Summary of Semtech
14:06:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:06:14 <AlexPassant> Zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
14:06:14 <Zakim> sorry, AlexPassant, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
14:06:30 <pgearon> LeeF: Tuesday gave a tutorial on SPARQL. Wednesday there was a SPARQL 1.1 panel. Fewer people at the panel
14:06:51 <pgearon> LeeF: panel had questions on federation. One person asked about LET
14:07:25 <pgearon> LeeF: people in the community seem to be engaged in SPARQL and are following what we're doing
14:08:46 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:08:46 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
14:08:47 <pgearon> LeeF: no real criticism. One question about LET. Another question asking if we've defined everything needed for federation (which we aren't)
14:09:30 <pgearon> chimezie: presentation on REST and HTTP. Most of the feedback was just about filling in details of the protocol
14:10:02 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
14:10:02 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
14:10:21 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/12/rdf-ws/
14:10:22 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: RDF Next Steps workshop
14:11:19 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: lots of presentations, lots of differing opinions
14:11:49 <Zakim> +bglimm
14:12:00 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: breakout groups on Semantics, Syntax, Named Graphs, and Linked Data issues
14:12:31 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: decided not to worry much about XML. Look at new syntax, and more "webby" things like JSON
14:12:51 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:12:51 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:13:32 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Semantics group wanted to align semantics with what people are expecting
14:14:38 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: syntax - don't touch XML semantics. Annotations should be allowed in RDF, which will be different to current reification syntax
14:14:41 <LeeF> See http://www.w3.org/2010/06/rdf-work-items/table
14:14:56 <Souri> Souri has joined #sparql
14:15:02 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RDF/NextStepWorkshop
14:15:26 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
14:15:28 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: using "weakly deprecated" on several features, such as reificiation. This means that people should avoid using them in new applications
14:15:35 <LeeF> zakim, aaee is Souri
14:15:36 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
14:16:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
14:16:17 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:16:26 <bglimm> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
14:16:26 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:16:30 <AxelPolleres> topic: Comments
14:16:30 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:16:31 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:16:34 <AlexPassant> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:16:34 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
14:16:36 <pgearon> pgearon: the outcome of the workshop is that there will likely be a new RDF working group
14:16:49 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:16:49 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:17:24 <bglimm> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:17:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgearon, OlivierCorby, kasei, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), LeeF, NicholasH, AlexPassant, Souri, bglimm (muted)
14:17:25 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: asking everyone on the list about comments
14:17:38 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:17:38 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:18:11 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
14:18:11 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
14:18:41 <pgearon> EF-1, EF-2, EF-3. Birte responded, and there was no response. Is this acceptable or do we need to follow up?
14:19:13 <pgearon> LeeF: good practice to follow up, but not required to at this stage (not until Last Call)
14:19:41 <AxelPolleres> LeeF: suggestion to track comments beyond sending response only by last call with a standard question for acknowledgement. 
14:19:54 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:19:54 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:20:26 <pgearon> JC-1. LeeF has sent another email opening this discussion again
14:20:49 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: can this be closed, or left open?
14:20:54 <pgearon> LeeF: leave open
14:21:03 <AxelPolleres> ASSIGNMENT to be put on next TC agenda
14:21:18 <kasei> RV-2 is waiting on a second response from SteveH.
14:21:22 <pgearon> HK-1. Similar to JC-1
14:21:46 <kasei> oops. jumped ahead a bit on that. sorry.
14:24:23 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Paul to check whether http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jan/0003.html is fully answered and complete update the comments table.
14:24:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-259 - Check whether http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jan/0003.html is fully answered and complete update the comments table. [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-07-06].
14:24:25 <pgearon> RN-1. Response was not formal, but in public. Richard Newman was satisfied with response
14:25:23 <pgearon> DR-1. Property Paths question still open. Axel with follow up with Andy to see if it is resolved
14:25:27 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to contact Andy about open comments assigned to him 
14:25:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-260 - Contact Andy about open comments assigned to him  [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-06].
14:25:58 <kasei> RV-2 isn't actually done, despite what the wiki says.
14:26:02 <AxelPolleres> ST-1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Feb/0015.html
14:26:29 <pgearon> ST-1. This has not been responded to. pgearon to follow up
14:26:31 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Paul to look into http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Feb/0015.html and update comments page accordingly
14:26:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-261 - Look into http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Feb/0015.html and update comments page accordingly [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-07-06].
14:27:49 <pgearon> RV-2. Responded to, but followup mail not in table
14:28:31 <chimezie_2> chimezie_2 has joined #sparql
14:28:41 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to add http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Mar/0002.html as new comment in the table, note necessary input from steve in the table
14:28:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-262 - Add http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Mar/0002.html as new comment in the table, note necessary input from steve in the table [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-07-06].
14:28:45 <bglimm> Steve did send regrets (most likely cannot make it he said)
14:29:26 <kasei> that's different
14:29:33 <pgearon> Steve needed for RV-3 and RV-4
14:29:54 <kasei> aha. RV-4 is the same as the followup on RV-1
14:30:10 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: ask stefve about RV-3 RV-4 responses
14:30:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ask
14:30:44 <AxelPolleres> close ACTION-262
14:30:44 <trackbot> ACTION-262 Add http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Mar/0002.html as new comment in the table, note necessary input from steve in the table closed
14:31:24 <AxelPolleres> RH-1 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Mar/0009.html
14:32:04 <pgearon> RH-1. More complex. This is an input paper which proposes an abstract syntax for Update
14:32:25 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RH-1
14:32:46 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: not responded, but have a reply draft. Draft says that we may consider this
14:34:52 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
14:35:03 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: Lee wanted to hold off on the reply
14:35:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:35:27 <AlexPassant> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:35:27 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
14:37:22 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: paul to reformulate http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RH-1 and send to the list.
14:37:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-263 - Reformulate http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:RH-1 and send to the list. [on Paul Gearon - due 2010-07-06].
14:37:34 <pgearon> pgearon: feels that the draft response is a "brush off" and volunteers to update the response
14:39:21 <pgearon> KK-1. ISSUE-49. Ivan asked, said we can reference informatively
14:40:04 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: can replicate ISSUE-49 in the text and explain that there may be an issue if not used as expected
14:40:48 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Chime to draft response to KK-1 summarising our internal discussions and changes in the doc.
14:40:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-264 - Draft response to KK-1 summarising our internal discussions and changes in the doc. [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-07-06].
14:41:12 <kasei> I drafted a response, but never got WG feedback on it.
14:41:54 <pgearon> kasei: discussing MH-3, TI-3 response
14:42:13 <pgearon> s/MH-3/MH-1/
14:42:25 <LeeF> +1 chimezie
14:43:10 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:MH-1
14:43:12 <bglimm> +1
14:43:23 <pgearon> kasei: don't plan to follow up with "well known" endpoint without a concrete proposal
14:43:23 <bglimm> supoort
14:43:30 <bglimm> support
14:43:54 <kasei> either way
14:44:16 <pgearon> kasei to follow up without action
14:44:39 <AxelPolleres> PA-1 
14:44:40 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jun/0002.html
14:45:15 <pgearon> Andy suggested that functions from XPath can be used
14:45:22 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:PA-1
14:45:58 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: can someone please check. Concern about syntactic correctness
14:46:36 <pgearon> AxelPolleres: noticed use of "+" instead of concat function
14:47:03 <kasei> works in a real implementation?
14:47:09 <kasei> does anybody implement those functions yet?
14:47:17 <LeeF> my main concern is fn:concat and fn:encode-for-uri
14:47:20 <LeeF> which we haven't settled on yet, right?
14:47:43 <LeeF> which functions & via which URIs
14:47:53 <LeeF> Sure
14:48:16 <LeeF> i think you're missing braces in the WHERE clause
14:48:35 <LeeF> the sub-SELECT needs to be wrapped in braces
14:49:22 <pgearon> pgearon: also includes example:percentEncode in query, which shouldn't be there
14:49:36 <kasei> I think the current grammar allows WHERE { SELECT ... }
14:50:33 <OlivierCorby> it should be: select exp as var (instead of var as exp)
14:50:38 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to update answer to PA-1 explaining non-normative nature of the functions and that syntax may still change
14:50:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Update answer to PA-1 explaining non-normative nature of the functions and that syntax may still change [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-07-06].
14:51:52 <kasei> yes
14:52:25 <pgearon> PA-2. Semantics of Describe. AxelPolleres has this on his list
14:52:42 <kasei> I can draft a response to PA-2 w.r.t. service descriptions.
14:53:56 <AxelPolleres> DS-1 needs discussion
14:53:59 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Jun/0011.html
14:54:03 <pgearon> DS-1. mentioned before, and kasei thinks we need more discussion
14:54:44 <pgearon> kasei: Andy provided compelling example, response suggested that entailment can interact and cause problems
14:54:59 <AxelPolleres> we had that discussion on F2F ... looks like we have to discuss this in the group again.
14:55:48 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to write  a mail to the list on the issue of DS-1 and what are the options 
14:55:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Write  a mail to the list on the issue of DS-1 and what are the options  [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-07-06].
14:55:59 <pgearon> kasei following up, will be discussed in next teleconference
14:57:09 <kasei> what time is the call tomorrow?
14:58:24 <AxelPolleres> topic: aob
14:58:35 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:58:36 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
14:58:37 <Zakim> -LeeF
14:58:38 <pgearon> adjourned
14:58:39 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:58:45 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:58:47 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
14:58:49 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
14:58:53 <Zakim> -NicholasH
14:58:55 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:58:55 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
14:58:57 <Zakim> -kasei
14:59:01 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
15:22:59 <kasei> AxelPolleres, ping?
15:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Souri, in SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM
15:35:05 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
15:35:07 <Zakim> Attendees were OlivierCorby, pgearon, +44.186.528.aaaa, kasei, +1.603.897.aabb, MattPerry, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, bglimm, NicholasH, +1.603.897.aaee,
15:35:09 <Zakim> ... Souri, AlexPassant
15:38:41 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #sparql
15:39:10 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
17:03:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql
19:22:25 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #sparql
21:26:42 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
22:39:01 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #sparql
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