Chatlog 2010-05-25

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13:54:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:54:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-sparql-irc
13:54:51 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be sparql
13:54:51 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
13:55:03 <AndyS> bglimm, APIs may let you build queries in other ways.
13:55:15 <dcharbon2> dcharbon2 has joined #sparql
13:55:30 <kasei> bglimm, early
13:55:39 <bglimm> ah, ok, but I don't care about that ;-) I only care about what the spec says
13:56:24 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-05-25
13:56:29 <AxelPolleres> chair: Axel Polleres
13:56:39 <NicholasHumfrey> zakim, who's muted?
13:56:39 <Zakim> I see NickHumfrey muted
13:56:56 <AxelPolleres> regrets: Sandro, chime
13:57:09 <Zakim> + +86528aaaa
13:57:10 <pgearon> pgearon has joined #sparql
13:57:11 <AxelPolleres> at risk: Alex, Paul
13:57:18 <bglimm> Zakim, +86528aaaa is me
13:57:18 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
13:57:26 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
13:57:26 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
13:58:12 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
13:58:22 <Zakim> +pgearon
13:58:28 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
13:58:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see NickHumfrey (muted), AndyS, Ivan, bglimm (muted), AxelPolleres, pgearon
13:58:39 <AxelPolleres> welcome, Nick!
13:58:46 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
13:59:01 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:13 <kasei> Zakim, mute me
13:59:13 <Zakim> kasei should now be muted
13:59:35 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #sparql
14:00:04 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:00:27 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see NickHumfrey, AndyS, Ivan, bglimm (muted), AxelPolleres, pgearon, kasei (muted), MattPerry
14:00:33 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
14:00:41 <Zakim> +dcharbon2
14:01:19 <Zakim> +mischat
14:01:29 <SteveH> Zakim, mischat is [Garlik]
14:01:29 <Zakim> +[Garlik]; got it
14:01:38 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily SteveH
14:01:38 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:01:43 <AndyS> I can scribe.
14:02:06 <AndyS> but I'll let Steve if he wants to :-)
14:02:14 <AndyS> scribe: Andy Seaborne
14:02:20 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
14:02:21 <AxelPolleres> scribe: AndyS
14:02:37 <Zakim> +souri
14:02:43 <AxelPolleres> scribe next tim sandro
14:02:50 <AndyS> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-05-25
14:02:56 <souri> souri has joined #sparql
14:03:01 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see NicholasHumfrey, AndyS, Ivan, bglimm (muted), AxelPolleres, pgearon, kasei (muted), MattPerry, OlivierCorby, dcharbon2, SteveH, souri
14:03:05 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
14:03:07 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-05-18
14:03:22 <AndyS> Regrets: chimezie, sandro, alex
14:03:41 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-05-18
14:03:56 <AndyS> Next meeting: 1 June
14:03:41 <AxelPolleres> Who's gonna be at SemTech?
14:04:08 <ivan> me
14:04:08 <pgearon> I'll be there
14:04:10 <LeeF> me
14:04:11 <MattPerry> I will be there
14:04:12 <SteveH> I'm not going
14:04:16 <AndyS> Regrets for next time: AndyS (unless it's raining a lot)
14:04:16 <LeeF> Would like to know who can make the panel, in particular
14:04:23 <souri> me too
14:04:23 <bglimm> I'm not going
14:04:24 <AndyS> AndyS @semtech
14:04:24 <AxelPolleres> me unfotrunately not going
14:05:24 <LeeF> 2pm on Wednesday
14:05:31 <AxelPolleres> must be somewhere tthere: http://www.semantic-conference.com/2010/
14:05:36 <LeeF> Right now it says:
14:05:37 <LeeF> Lee Feigenbaum, Cambridge Semantics Inc
14:05:37 <LeeF> Andy Seaborne, Talis
14:05:37 <LeeF> David S. Newman, Wells Fargo
14:05:37 <LeeF> Ivan Herman, World Wide Web Consortium
14:05:37 <LeeF> Paul Gearon, Fedora Commons, Inc
14:05:47 <LeeF> I'll check with David, who hasn't participated in a while
14:06:10 <LeeF> I'll add Souri & Matt if you'd like to join the panel?
14:06:30 <MattPerry> Sure. Thanks Lee
14:06:31 <souri> sure
14:06:37 <LeeF> thanks
14:06:53 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments
14:07:21 <AxelPolleres> topic: liaisons
14:07:57 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/use-cases/
14:08:05 <AxelPolleres> RDB2RDF docs probably next week published
14:08:35 <AndyS> Topic:Publishing documents
14:09:02 <LeeF> I'll let people know if I need anything from them
14:09:03 <AndyS> LeeF: working on publishing docs
14:09:08 <LeeF> ack me
14:09:40 <bglimm> We also didn't decide on the entailments doc yet if I remeber correctly
14:09:42 <AndyS> LeeF: need to resolve to publish the update doc as there have been changes
14:09:57 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:09:58 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:10:05 <AndyS> s/update doc/update language doc/
14:10:14 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:10:14 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:10:35 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish SPARQL 1.1 Update as a Working Draft 
14:10:45 <LeeF> Seconded
14:10:46 <bglimm> +1
14:10:46 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:10:47 <ivan> 1
14:10:53 <souri> +1
14:10:53 <MattPerry> +1
14:10:54 <OlivierCorby> +1
14:10:59 <AndyS> +1
14:11:13 <NicholasHumfrey> +1
14:11:31 <pgearon> SPARQL 1.1 Update Revision 1.47
14:11:33 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Publish SPARQL 1.1 Update as a Working Draft
14:11:46 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
14:11:46 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
14:11:49 <AndyS> Entailment doc.
14:12:07 <AndyS> bglimm: some changes this week, ready to go
14:12:10 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:12:10 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:12:10 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Publish SPARQL 1.1 Entailment as a Working Draft
14:12:14 <bglimm> +1
14:12:18 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:12:19 <pgearon> +1
14:12:21 <OlivierCorby> +1
14:12:22 <souri> +1
14:12:24 <NicholasHumfrey> +1
14:12:26 <MattPerry> +1
14:12:31 <ivan> +1
14:12:39 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Publish SPARQL 1.1 Entailment as a Working Draft
14:13:58 <AndyS> Topic: More Admin
14:14:20 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: Welcome to Nick Humfrey of the BBC
14:14:49 <AndyS> NicholasHumfrey: music, /progammes, DBPedia.
14:15:15 <AndyS> ... here to see what the WG is up and how it would fit in the BBC.
14:15:37 <AndyS> Topic: Lee's Initial Issues List
14:15:41 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0166.html
14:16:21 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-8 with the consensus that subqueries share the same RDF dataset as their parent query, and that FROM and FROM NAMED clauses are not permitted in subqueries.
14:16:35 <souri> +1
14:16:41 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/8
14:17:36 <SteveH> +1
14:17:44 <kasei> +1
14:17:46 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:17:46 <MattPerry> +1
14:17:46 <AndyS> +1
14:17:47 <bglimm> +1
14:17:52 <OlivierCorby> +1
14:18:00 <ivan> +1
14:18:02 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-8 with the consensus that subqueries share the same RDF dataset as their parent query, and that FROM and FROM NAMED clauses are not permitted in subqueries.
14:18:12 <LeeF> trackbot, close ISSUE-8
14:18:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-8 What determines the RDF dataset for subqueries? closed
14:18:29 <LeeF> ISSUE-8 : RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-8 with the consensus that subqueries share the same RDF dataset as their parent query, and that FROM and FROM NAMED clauses are not permitted in subqueries.
14:18:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-8 What determines the RDF dataset for subqueries? notes added
14:18:44 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-14 with the consensus that SPARQL 1.1 defines the following aggregates: COUNT, SUM, MIN, MAX, AVG, GROUP_CONCAT, and SAMPLE.
14:19:00 <SteveH> +1
14:19:01 <kasei> +1
14:19:04 <MattPerry> +1
14:19:05 <AxelPolleres> +1
14:19:08 <OlivierCorby> +1
14:19:10 <dcharbon2> +1
14:19:12 <souri> +1
14:19:13 <pgearon> +1
14:19:17 <ivan> 1
14:19:20 <AndyS> (and custom aggregates)
14:19:24 <bglimm> +1
14:19:56 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-14 with the consensus that SPARQL 1.1 defines the following aggregates: COUNT, SUM, MIN, MAX, AVG, GROUP_CONCAT, and SAMPLE
14:20:04 <LeeF> ISSUE-14 : RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-14 with the consensus that SPARQL 1.1 defines the following aggregates: COUNT, SUM, MIN, MAX, AVG, GROUP_CONCAT, and SAMPLE
14:20:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 Which aggregates to include notes added
14:20:08 <LeeF> trackbot, close ISSUE-14
14:20:08 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 Which aggregates to include closed
14:21:01 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/1
14:22:02 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-15 -- I think we have consensus here around custom aggregate 
14:22:03 <AxelPolleres> snamed with URIs, with no keywords, allowing the DISTINCT modifier, and 
14:22:03 <AxelPolleres> allowing the parameterized syntax introduced for GROUP_CONCAT, but I'm 
14:22:03 <AxelPolleres> not positve and don't see this spelled out yet in the editor's draft, so 
14:22:03 <AxelPolleres> didn't want to propose to resolve the issue yet.
14:22:35 <AndyS> q+
14:22:54 <kasei> I think that was Nicholas when he joined the call.
14:22:59 <AxelPolleres> ack AndyS
14:23:41 <SteveH> q+
14:23:45 <LeeF> ack ??P0
14:24:29 <NicholasHumfrey> queue-
14:24:35 <AxelPolleres> AndyS: rather would go for simple spolution not allowing parameterised syntax in custom aggregates
14:24:44 <NicholasHumfrey> queue- ?P0
14:24:44 <AxelPolleres> ack SteveH
14:25:09 <AxelPolleres> SteveH: seconded what Steve said
14:25:10 <SteveH> loud typing noise
14:25:11 <AndyS> SteveH: agree - complexity is not justified
14:25:18 <NicholasHumfrey> arg - sorry. Yes, P0 was me. Trying to learn all this!
14:25:36 <LeeF> not me!
14:26:00 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll: prohibit parameterised syntax for custom aggregates?
14:26:07 <kasei> 0
14:26:09 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: anyone in favour of named parameters to custom aggregates?
14:26:13 <souri> +1
14:26:20 <AndyS> prohibit
14:26:23 <OlivierCorby> 0
14:26:25 <pgearon> prohibit
14:26:29 <SteveH> prohibit
14:26:31 <MattPerry> prohibit
14:26:36 <pgearon> +1
14:26:37 <NicholasHumfrey> prohibit
14:26:38 <souri> prohibit
14:26:40 <bglimm> prohibit
14:28:16 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: close ISSUE-15 with  consensus around custom aggregates named with URIs, with no keywords, allowing the DISTINCT modifier, and disallowing the parameterized syntax introduced for GROUP_CONCAT for custom aggregates
14:28:34 <SteveH> +1
14:28:38 <MattPerry> +1
14:28:43 <bglimm> +1
14:28:46 <AndyS> +1
14:28:50 <OlivierCorby> +1
14:28:55 <NicholasHumfrey> +1
14:28:56 <dcharbon2> +1
14:28:57 <souri> +1
14:28:59 <pgearon> +1
14:29:17 <AxelPolleres> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-15 with  consensus around custom aggregates named with URIs, with no keywords, allowing the DISTINCT modifier, and disallowing the parameterized syntax introduced for GROUP_CONCAT for custom aggregates
14:29:27 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, close ISSUE-15
14:29:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-15 Extensibility of aggregate functions closed
14:30:03 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/16
14:30:04 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/16 : Dealing with aggregates over mixed datatypes 
14:31:44 <kasei> so what is the current status right now?
14:31:50 <kasei> undefined over mixed datatypes?
14:32:11 <LeeF> I want to close this, but I would like to understand what's in the document currently, too
14:33:09 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS 
14:33:12 <AxelPolleres> may be safer to keep the issue open until steve went over the last f2f resolutions with scrutinity
14:33:31 <AndyS> AndyS: will want to discuss presentation of design *after* the next publication.
14:34:18 <AndyS> LeeF: Next step is what?
14:34:29 <AndyS> SteveH: examples to add
14:35:22 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: steveh to give examples that highlight  possible ambiguities in the resolutions from last f2f concerning ISSUE-16
14:35:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-247 - Give examples that highlight  possible ambiguities in the resolutions from last f2f concerning ISSUE-16 [on Steve Harris - due 2010-06-01].
14:36:01 <AndyS> Topic: Issues and Scedule
14:36:08 <AndyS> Topic: Issues and Schedule
14:36:24 <AndyS> Property path telecon on Thursday
14:37:03 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0243.html
14:37:16 <LeeF> I need to reserve zakim
14:37:21 <LeeF> ivan, can you help with that?
14:37:28 <AndyS> scheduled at 10:00am EDT / 15:00 GMTDT for up to 2 hours
14:37:42 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: leef to reserve zakim for property path TC 
14:37:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-248 - Reserve zakim for property path TC  [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-06-01].
14:37:43 <ivan> you can do it ad hoc, but I can also send a request if you want
14:37:43 <AndyS> Can we just use this channel?
14:37:57 <LeeF> yes, let's use #sparql like normal
14:38:14 <ivan> '' /invite zakim; zakim, space for 10? "
14:39:10 <AxelPolleres> + "/invite rrsagent"
14:40:24 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to check back with Lee on how/when to schedule theother special TCs
14:40:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-249 - Check back with Lee on how/when to schedule theother special TCs [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-06-01].
14:41:20 <AxelPolleres> topic: http-update-protocol issue
14:41:23 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010AprJun/0238.html
14:41:27 <AndyS> Topic:  discussion on http-update-protocol.
14:41:44 <AndyS> AxelPolleres: issue is base URI in updates
14:42:28 <AxelPolleres> "In situations where there is no Base URI in the payload and a graph IRI is
14:42:28 <AxelPolleres> embedded, the RDF document that represents [AWWW] the networked RDF
14:42:28 <AxelPolleres> knowledge identified by the embedded graph IRI SHOULD be considered the
14:42:28 <AxelPolleres> retrieval context (5.1.2) [RFC3986].  Thus, the default base URI is the base
14:42:29 <AxelPolleres> URI of that RDF document."
14:43:10 <AndyS> I would need examples to understand that.
14:43:15 <SteveH> me too
14:44:29 <pgearon> +q
14:44:42 <pgearon> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/37
14:44:46 <AndyS> pgearon: Issue 37
14:45:02 <AndyS> Issue 37 : How does basic federated query interact with SPARQL/Update?
14:45:03 <AxelPolleres> "How does basic federated query interact with SPARQL/Update?"
14:45:39 <pgearon> "SPARQL/Update allows the use of SERVICE in the WHERE clause"
14:45:48 <SteveH> typing noise
14:45:49 <AndyS> pgearon: can allow in the graph pattern, but should not also do federated change
14:46:22 <AndyS> Fine in intent.  
14:46:29 <SteveH> q+
14:46:33 <AndyS> But not in DELETE WHERE please :-)
14:46:36 <pgearon> q-
14:48:22 <AndyS> SteveH: complicated case : update calls back to same service
14:49:29 <pgearon> +1 to allow everything in the WHERE clause that is allowed in SPARQL 1.1
14:50:24 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: steveh to take the discussion on SERVICE in Update to email, highlighting potential problem cases 
14:50:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-250 - Take the discussion on SERVICE in Update to email, highlighting potential problem cases  [on Steve Harris - due 2010-06-01].
14:51:11 <AndyS> topic: Any other business?
14:51:26 <AndyS> Adjourned
14:51:32 <Zakim> -SteveH
14:51:32 <bglimm> bye
14:51:33 <ivan> zakim, drop me
14:51:33 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
14:51:33 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
14:51:35 <Zakim> -Ivan
14:51:36 <MattPerry> bye
14:51:37 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
14:51:38 <Zakim> -souri
14:51:40 <Zakim> -kasei
14:51:41 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:51:42 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
14:51:43 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:51:47 <AndyS> Please remember the property path call on Thursday.
14:51:47 <Zakim> -NicholasHumfrey
14:51:53 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
14:51:56 <pgearon> pgearon has left #sparql
14:51:56 <Zakim> -Lee_Feigenbaum
14:52:07 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:52:14 <AxelPolleres> andyS, minutes magic... u or me do it? :-)
14:56:45 <OlivierCorby> OlivierCorby has left #sparql
14:57:19 <AndyS> I may not be able to do it until Thursday - travelling tomorrow and no way am I trying using 3G 
15:01:00 <LeeF> RRSAgent, pointer?
15:01:00 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/05/25-sparql-irc#T15-01-00
15:03:13 <LeeF> pgearon_, AlexPassant -- I'm going to work on getting SPARQL 1.1 Update pubrlues compliant now -- is what's checked in OK to go?
15:05:45 <AxelPolleres> no worries, will do the minutes
15:06:26 <kasei> LeeF: should I remove the old SD doc diff paragraph and commit the new one in its place?
15:07:11 <LeeF> yes, please
15:07:15 <kasei> also, (unrelated), my ACTION-235 can be closed.
15:10:19 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #sparql
15:10:20 <kasei> LeeF, ok, the new changes section is committed. Please let me know if there's anything else I can do to help with the publication.
15:10:48 <AxelPolleres> hmmm, how to I get CommonScribe to recognise Nick?
15:13:05 <LeeF> i'm not sure, AxelPolleres - ask sandro
15:13:12 <LeeF> kasei, ok, I will when I get to the SD doc
15:13:14 <LeeF> thanks
15:13:18 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-235
15:13:18 <trackbot> ACTION-235 Review HTTP Uniform Protocol for Managing RDF Graphs closed
15:13:23 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-250
15:13:23 <trackbot> ACTION-250 Take the discussion on SERVICE in Update to email, highlighting potential problem cases closed
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